Help Picking Out Vintage Speakers?

[Absolutely]

Hey, I was wondering if I could get some help picking out some "Vintage Speakers"

I am looking for a 2 channel set-up, for Vinyl
I currently have a Pioneer PL-518 turntable.
And a Technics SA-404 Receiver, which I believe is 300 Watts.

So the place I was looking had the following speakers for sale.
They're all "Guaranteed" and have been tested by technicians after purchase.


Pioneer
CS-G103
CS-A31
HPM 40

KLH
33 Series

Sansui
S-1000 (Classic Series?)

Venturi
V820

AKAI
SW155

I tried to find some specs on them using the Database, but either couldn't find them or they weren't listed.
I'm sure I can buy better stuff new, but I'm into the "Vintageness" of it, and don't want to spend more than $100 or so. All these are under that by some.

I personally liked the AKAIs, based on looks. I didn't listen to any of them in the store. I know about Wattage, and that's about it. Are these all pretty similar, or if it were you would you grab a certain brand/model?

So if anyone has some opinions, I'd love to hear them. Are these all ****, or are some decent?

Thank you so much.

[poppachubby]

Hey Absolutely and welcome to AR!

There are a few vintage types who post regularily. Give it a couple of days so that everyone has time to see your post and reply.

I have a Pioneer PL-516, great little table. Dense fibre board plinth, reasonably heavy. With some extra isolation and tweaks, I have increased it's performance considerably. I replaced the dental floss IC's. I fab'd an acrylic mat for it, and now use a weight as well. I also put it on some isolation feet which I made.

Of course, the cart has been upgraded. It's currently using an Ortofon OMB-10, a fantastic budget piece. I use it as a part of my digital set up and have it inputted into my computer via my soundcard. Naturally, I am using a Music Hall phono stage to level the signal. I have adapted the pre-amp to battery power. Combined with the IC tweak, it's dead quiet.

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/85957fd6dca64717444ece29b1fbd2dd.jpg

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/4dbca801ab235d85b781b4f038c2cb89.jpg

Anyhow, just some ideas for you and your Pioneer.

As far as speakers go, I wouldn't get too excited about any in your list. Personally, I would save a bit more cash and look for something a little better. I think you should take your amp into this shop and have a listen. Let your ears decide.

Are you familiar with Dynaco? They are a classic, if not legendary vintage speaker. The A25 model is an outstanding vintage speaker. Incredibly neutral, nice tone and a natural and full bass response. If you are diligent and check places like Ebay or Audiogon, they occasionally appear for sale.

Several members here currently own a pair of Dynaco A25, including myself. Countless others have owned a pair in the past. Most will tell you, this rates high as far as vintage speakers go.

http://www.praudio.co.uk/images/loudspeakers/dynaco_a25.jpg

I have just purchased a Golden Tube SE-40. As a result, I wanted a bright sounding spoeaker that's easy to drive. With some diligence and good timing, I landed a pair of Sound Dynamics 1200 SMT for $100. The seller had them posted on Canuck Audio Mart for $125. They are in excellent condition and represent a bit of the west coast sound, vintage of course. A metal dome tweeter and single 12" woofer with a 12" passive rad. 70 lbs each!

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/2dc0635eaaa8c8373eea3f5ebbed9a67.jpg

Well, good luck. I'm sure a few of the other guys will help you out too.

[Absolutely]

Thanks for responding.
All the things you said you did to your PL516 is a little over my head...

I bought my turntable at the same place I saw the speakers. He was using it as his in-store listening station.
I'm not sure when or if the Cartridges have been replaced, or if they need to be.

I am not familiar with Dynaco, I know a lot of the more general names (Kenwood/Marantz/Pioneer/Klipsch, etc)

I've been looking around for some Vintage Marantz speakers, but haven't really found any.
Never been to that Audiogon site, I'll check it out.

I'm willing to spend more, I just don't really know where else to look besides Ebay/Craigs

Also, I currently am using Advent Baby 2s that I pulled out of a basement.
They work fine, just looking to upgrade.

[Mr Peabody]

Many people still seek out the Pioneer HPM series. Usually the larger models but those would be a good pair to listen to. I have also heard the older KLH were good but I don't know that much about them to recommend any model, nor have I heard them. I used to own some HPM. I thought they were alright but I really don't understand the fuss.

Try a Google search for your receiver model to see if any specs can be found. I guarantee it's not 300 watts. That may be the power consumption shown on back but that is not it's output power.

[Absolutely]

Many people still seek out the Pioneer HPM series. Usually the larger models but those would be a good pair to listen to. I have also heard the older KLH were good but I don't know that much about them to recommend any model, nor have I heard them. I used to own some HPM. I thought they were alright but I really don't understand the fuss.

Try a Google search for your receiver model to see if any specs can be found. I guarantee it's not 300 watts. That may be the power consumption shown on back but that is not it's output power.

You're right about the Wattage...
I was confused, it's 50 Watts per channel.

When you don't know a lot about something like this it's just too overwhelming. Everyone has different ideas and opinions, you know.
You ask someone at a store and they'll say, "Oh, I wouldn't buy ______ brand, I've had problems with those" meanwhile just because of that you're a little biased from there on out.

Same with speakers, I know VERY little, so it's tough.

[poppachubby]

Thanks for responding.
All the things you said you did to your PL516 is a little over my head...

Sorry about that. Your post didn't mention your experience level, and I took the tone of it as someone who knew a thing or two. So at least you sound the part! Heh...


I bought my turntable at the same place I saw the speakers. He was using it as his in-store listening station.
I'm not sure when or if the Cartridges have been replaced, or if they need to be.

This of course, depends on the cartridge and stylus quality itself. If the table is not set up properly, or your vinyl is consistently dirty your stylus will wear faster. As a rule, "several" hundred hours at a minimum. The cartridge will let you know, believe me. One thing you could do is ask the seller if he can approxiamate the hours he used it.


I am not familiar with Dynaco, I know a lot of the more general names (Kenwood/Marantz/Pioneer/Klipsch, etc)

As I said, this is a quality speaker. If you spend a little more and search a little harder, you could be rewarded. There are other brands aside from Dynaco that could fit the bill also.


Ive been looking around for some Vintage Marantz speakers, but haven't really found any.
Never been to that Audiogon site, I'll check it out.

I'm willing to spend more, I just don't really know where else to look besides Ebay/Craigs

Check out Audiogon for sure. The problem with speakers is the cost to ship them. Craigslist would be a good option. Also, most hi-fi shops take trade-ins on purchases leaving them with a small "used" section. This stuff is typically older and low in price. Look to the nearest large city, find out which shops have anything and take a day to check them out.

[blackraven]

I'd go for the Pioneer HPM 40's. I believe the HPM series speakers were nice sounding. Just make sure the drivers are in good condition, especially the woofers.

[thekid]

Welcome to AR!
Another fan of vintage gear is always welcome.

Vintage speakers are fun to pursue and are out there at very reasonable prices (see avatar) if you know to look for and have a little patience. Local thrifts and Craigslist are great sources. Often speakers found there are in the $20-$50 range and in good condition.

Of the list that you have there I would go with the KLH 33's as my first choice and then possibly the HPM 40's. I would stay away from all the rest.

I own a pair of 33's and am impressed with their all around solid performance. They were not a Henry Kloss design but they were put together by members of his design team before they left KLH and the company started its downward spiral. You can listen to all types of music on them and I don't think you will be disappointed.

The HPM series has its following but it is mostly the HPM 100 that draws all the attention with some positive also mentioned about the 60. I have not heard much about the 40 so I don't know if that reflects on its sound quality or it was just not sold in great numbers. Most common comment about the HPM series is that they are great for headbaning Rock so if that is your main listening material you may want to consider the 40.

KLH 33 info

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/klh/klh_33_klh_model_thirty-thr/

Other vintage speakers to look for;

Early KLH - Any Model 33 or below will do
Early Advent- Original large Advents or New Large Advents (That is what they are called there is no model #)
Early AR's- models 2,3 or 4
EPI
Dynaco
Genesis

Later "vintage speakers"

Polk Monitor series-Models 5,7 or 10
DCM Time Windows
DCM Time Frames 500 series or above

[Mr Peabody]

Hey Absolutely, don't worry about it we all had to start some where. Welcome to the forums.

Watch what this place is charging for those speakers, there are a variety of good new bookshelf speakers in the $200.00 range that are as good or better than what you are considering. People seem to be growing in interest with the vintage gear and we all know what happens when a demand for something begins.

You might price some new Wharfdale speakers. A friend of mine had a pair and they weren't bad for budget price.

I'd also add to your list of vintage possibilities 90's or older Infinity RS series. Larger ones may not be a good match for a 50 watt receiver, they took a bit of power but the smaller ones wouldn't be a problem. The Kappa series is better but you'd really need a better amp.

[JoeE SP9]

Welcome to AR Absolutely! I don't want to push my speaker prejudices on you. My suggestion is, listen to as many different speakers as you can because you can't evaluate speakers by specs. Your ears and personal taste are all that matters with speakers.

With that said; I agree with thekid.

[mountwoody]

I have an old pair of Fisher's. They have 15 inch woofers in them. I bought them new back in 1989. I love them. They have tons of hours on them at extremely loud decibles and still perform like new. I let them rip outside when we have parties. Model STV-430MA 120 watts @ 8 ohms. If you can find a pair of them cheap you would be pleasantly surprised.

[cjpremierfour]

If that list is what your after:
Skip the Pioneer G103 and the Sansui S1000! The Pioneers were $160 a pair back in 1989. The Sansui's were made well after Sansui started going down in quality.

The Akai SW155 speakers are something on the order of the old high sensitivity speakers made by Sansui, Kenwood and Pioneer ( multi driver Japan speaker ) back in the 70's and 80's. They will play loud and have high mid-band output, however you will have less bottom end. Some on these were designed to be placed against the wall to help with lower frequencies and placement will be important. I would ask to try it out before a purchase or ask about a return policy. ( $350 pair back in 1971 to 1979 )

The KLH 33 is always a safe bet. KLH is suppose to be one of the best all around speaker companies back in the 70's for the money.

The Bic Ventura V820 is going to be the highest end speaker on this list. But I think that's its 8" woofer might be limited by output on some music. It will be something that you will have decide. ($439 pair in 1989)

The 2 Pioneers on this list is something that you need to listen to. When set up right, both can be very good. I have heard / owned several CS series but not the A31. The CS series build quality, crossovers and drivers are better that you think.
I own both the HPM 100s and 40s, both are well made and have a strong bottom end. I actually got the 100s after being so impressed by the 40s. The 40s seem to go almost as low, are just as dymamic and will play as loud without that overemphasized mid-range that all HPM 100 suffer from. I really like the 40's sound but not it's finish. What was Pioneer thinking?

Keep in mind that any vintage speaker may need a capacitor change to restore it's orignal sound.

Like someone else said on this thread, listen to as many speakers as you can. Pay close attention to placement and see if it will work in your room. This is just my opinion, but the only two that stand out are the Pioneers. Both those speakers have thier own sound and it's possible that you won't like either. You may want to wait for something else if that was the case. You already have some but let me add a few other choices: EPI, Rectilinear, Frazier, JBL.

If you have any question about any of these brands. there lots of help on this site!
Good Luck

[Worf101]

This topic's like raw meat in the lion's cage. TheKid is the current master of TTSS (The Thrift Store Score) but there's other's here than can help as well. Your list is tilted towards "Kabukis", older Japanese offerings. I tend to lean towards "The New England Sound", Epicure, EPI, Allison ADS and some Ohms from Brooklyn. I tell everyone that asks that, if you've the room and the will, old school vintage speaks can do you real, real good.

Welcome to the madness.

Worf

[Absolutely]

This is just my opinion

I appreciate it, a lot of good info

[Absolutely]

For those who have suggested the KLH 33s, would $100 be way too much?
I saw an original ad that had them at $100.
Seems odd to pay the same price they were in 1980(?) Maybe I can barter...

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/Rmbxr9/Ad.jpg

[Absolutely]

Poppachubby, you think $125 is too much for Dynaco A25s?
There's one listed on Craigs in my area.
They have original drivers.

[thekid]

Poppachubby, you think $125 is too much for Dynaco A25s?
There's one listed on Craigs in my area.
They have original drivers.

$125 in probably a little on the high side for the A25's unless they were mint condition.
$50-$100 is probably the normal range so you might want to try and negotiate a little.

You are right that $100 would be too high for the 33's.

Worf- Thanks for the props. I think if I ever have to update my resume it will read something like - B.A. English 1985, Master Degree TTSS 2008

[cjpremierfour]

The KLH 33 were $100 dollars each in 1971 to 1975, if you count for inflation for that time period you can see why the price would remain that high.
(*This is just me) If I have a chance to pick up something local, I am willing to pay more for it and take out the chance of something being damaged or being burned all together. In my area, you can expect to pay @ $100 or even a bit more for any KLH speaker from the 70's. I grabbed a pair of restored Dynaco A25's in Raleigh, NC about 2 years ago for $125! That was a steal at that price. If the Dyanco A25's are in good shape, I would say go for them.:3:

[poppachubby]

Poppachubby, you think $125 is too much for Dynaco A25s?
There's one listed on Craigs in my area.
They have original drivers.


It's my experience that when someone wants to make $100 on Craigslist, they ask for $125. If they are in good shape but more importantly, sound good, $100 would be on the high end of a good deal. I think $75 is the magic number where both parties make a sacrifice...

I would suggest that you go listen to those ASAP. Trust me, this is the speaker you want...

[Absolutely]

I would suggest that you go listen to those ASAP. Trust me, this is the speaker you want...

I'll give the guy a call Monday and see if I can check them out.
Not a great picture, but these are the photos.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/Rmbxr9/3n13k03pa5O55P95R2a1g14fff1bbb7b819.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/Rmbxr9/3n73m33pf5O55T75Saa1ga7a7561b5fe31a.jpg

[thekid]

I'd say those are average maybe a little above average for the cabinets. Those are the original grills but it looks like the cloth may be a bit stretched. Probably would need to replace the cloth but that is pretty simple. I just removed the old cloth did some quick measurements with some replacement cloth and used a staple gun.

[Absolutely]

Thanks