B&W is the British Bose??? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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Ajani
01-14-2010, 08:27 PM
I just love when non-audiophiles write articles... you get comparisons like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/technology/personaltech/14phones.html?8cir&emc=cirb1

It's a commentary from the NY Times about B&W's new P5 Headphones.... I'm not sure how much B&W would appreciate the comparison though...

Mr Peabody
01-14-2010, 09:00 PM
Ouch, that's gotta hert :)

IRG
01-15-2010, 03:44 AM
Well if you compare bottom lines, I'm sure being compared to Bose isn't a bad thing. These are for profit companies after all :)

Hyfi
01-15-2010, 04:51 AM
They sell B&W in Department Stores in London along with some other nice gear. I was surprised when in Harrods with the quality setups they had playing.

The Zeppelin was the centerpiece.......just like a Wave would be here in US stores.




No comparison tho no matter how you slice it.

audio amateur
01-15-2010, 07:28 AM
The Nautilus ain't no 901

markw
01-15-2010, 08:03 AM
I don't think I've ever heard of Bose speakers being used as studio monitors in big name recording studios. I do recall B &W speakers being used for that purpose, though..

Florian
01-15-2010, 09:32 AM
Hits the nail, B&W buys reviews across the globe, same as Bose. If you know what Peter Lyngdorf, Dali and B&W have in common then you know why this statement is true....

RGA
01-15-2010, 09:54 AM
Bose makes a 901 - B&W makes an 801. Neither had a room at CES aimed at audiophiles but on the floor space with all the TV's.

nightflier
01-15-2010, 10:41 AM
Ironically, the NYT article was trying to flatter B&W, and my guess is they were basing it on Bose being so successful on the financial side of things. While most of us would typically buy the Zeppelin over the WaveRadio, most American consumers wouldn't - a testament to its marketing success - Bose is still equated with quality in the consumer's mindset.

Ajani
01-15-2010, 11:27 AM
Hits the nail, B&W buys reviews across the globe, same as Bose. If you know what Peter Lyngdorf, Dali and B&W have in common then you know why this statement is true....

So since Magnepan and Apogee (when they were in existence) receive(d) great reviews around the globe (from the same mags) I assume they bought them too...

rob_a
01-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Itís never cool to be compared to Bose! :sad:

Mr Peabody
01-15-2010, 07:06 PM
Those who have read my posts know that i am not a B&W fan but Markw is correct and B&W product should be given it's credit. B&W became famous based on their Studio Monitors, I believe that's what the Nautilus was based on. What is it Kid Rock says, it's not cocky if you back it up. Bose is basically a gimmick product line based on super hype. The "cool" factor sold the 901's in the 70's and the rep carries on. I would have personally taken some Altec Lansing but that's me. :)

Worf101
01-16-2010, 01:18 PM
The Nautilus ain't no 901
+10000000 You got that chit right!!!! I can see both sides though. I'm B&W would sell their souls to have the market saturation and brand recognition that Blose has here and worldwide. But you should be carefull what you wish for. Can you successfully sell to savvy audio mavens AND Grandma and Grandpa Plug n' Play? I'm NOT so sure. In some respects to court one is to lose the other... Interesting thought though...

Worf

kexodusc
01-16-2010, 01:41 PM
Sign me up for the first order of little snail shell HTIB speakers!

audio amateur
01-16-2010, 02:30 PM
Sign me up for the first order of little snail shell HTIB speakers!
That would be pretty sweet.

Ajani
01-16-2010, 02:32 PM
Sign me up for the first order of little snail shell HTIB speakers!

I'd buy them!

audio amateur
01-16-2010, 02:45 PM
http://fractalontology.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/nautilus.jpg

Ajani
01-16-2010, 03:37 PM
I was more thinking this snail:

http://assets.bowers-wilkins.com/med/Libraries/3/Nautilus_l2_w817_h328.jpg

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 03:26 AM
Bose is basically a gimmick product line based on super hype......I would have personally taken some Altec Lansing but that's me. :)

Mr Peabody hit the nail on the head!

I was dumb and stupid in 1971 (nothing has changed) and just into audio for a year or two when I demo'd the Bose 901's. I bought them to go with my Pioneer receiver that pumped out 25 watts per channel. When I hooked them up at home I wondered where the bass was that I heard in the dealer's room. Oh yeah, I didn't notice that he was driving them with McIntosh amps as big as a bulldozer. That little box with the original 901's EQ'd the bass up about 12-18dB's. They were up to their tricks even back then.

The 901's have sort of developed a cult following that believe that the 901's were an outstanding speaker and since then Bose has gone down hill (at least the last part is correct). The 901's were useless unless you had a bare wall behind them. I hung them from the ceiling with chain (the only good thing I have to say about the 901's is that they were well hung :biggrin5: ). Bose used the same deceptive marketing back then although the 901's were in fact several steps above their current junk in build quality. Direct/reflecting was was OK for some symphonic music but I never quite liked the 8 foot wide Bob Dylan vocal soundstage up near the ceiling. They actually sounded better when turned around.

So I started reading every audio magazine I could get my hands on and got smart. I dumped the 901's and bought Altec Lansing 846 Voice of the Theater home series. Wow, now the neighbors knew where I lived! The difference between night and day is an overused phrase but in this case very appropriate.

The B&W's might not be my favorite speakers but they are certainly very fine products. Comparing Bose to B&W is like comparing Daihatsu to Acura (sorry but I like Japanese cars).

RR6 :biggrin5:

02audionoob
01-17-2010, 08:05 AM
I expected to be a smiky at the article before I hit the link and read it. It's a comparison that makes sense to me, if you mean they're a loudspeaker company who now markets iPod docks, computer speakers and headphones.

Mr Peabody
01-17-2010, 11:57 AM
RR6, rumor has it you like your women from there too :)

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 12:13 PM
RR6, rumor has it you like your women from there too :)
Correct Mr. P. I like my photography gear from there also. However, on my last prime lens from Nikon it clearly say made in China. I guess, The Times They Are a-Changin' :biggrin5:

Ajani
01-17-2010, 09:16 PM
I expected to be a smiky at the article before I hit the link and read it. It's a comparison that makes sense to me, if you mean they're a loudspeaker company who now markets iPod docks, computer speakers and headphones.

Well...yes the comparison makes sense... and I understand why the author made the comparison... but it's just amusing that he has no idea what an insult it is in audiophile circles to compare a respected brand to Bose...

Ajani
01-17-2010, 09:19 PM
Those who have read my posts know that i am not a B&W fan but Markw is correct and B&W product should be given it's credit. B&W became famous based on their Studio Monitors, I believe that's what the Nautilus was based on. What is it Kid Rock says, it's not cocky if you back it up. Bose is basically a gimmick product line based on super hype. The "cool" factor sold the 901's in the 70's and the rep carries on. I would have personally taken some Altec Lansing but that's me. :)

Yep... whether you like the sound or not, B&W has a strong reputation in both the studio and in Reviewers' systems...

Brands like B&W, Revel, Magnepan and Quad are almost always in some Hi-Fi Reviewer's reference system... So even if you don't think squat of the sound of any of those brands, they are clearly not getting by on mere gimmicks and marketing like Bose (does for most - not all - of its products)...

Mr Peabody
01-17-2010, 09:29 PM
It just makes sense for a speaker company to offer an I-pod dock. You go broke if you don't keep up. What if B&W never made a center channel speaker? The headphones still has me a bit puzzled unless B&W thought they had something to offer that's not available yet. But..... Klipsch, Denon, and even Monster are jumping on the headphone wagon. Actually, with B&W's studio side of things one has to wonder why they haven't done this already.

Here's the deal, it's still an insult in my book until I see B&W on an infomercial like Bose. Then I will admit they took it too far. :)

Ajani
01-17-2010, 09:41 PM
It just makes sense for a speaker company to offer an I-pod dock. You go broke if you don't keep up. What if B&W never made a center channel speaker? The headphones still has me a bit puzzled unless B&W thought they had something to offer that's not available yet. But..... Klipsch, Denon, and even Monster are jumping on the headphone wagon. Actually, with B&W's studio side of things one has to wonder why they haven't done this already.

Here's the deal, it's still an insult in my book until I see B&W on an infomercial like Bose. Then I will admit they took it too far. :)

If I'm not mistaken, B&W is (or at least is one of) the best selling Speaker Brand worldwide (I think Bose is king in North America - but not nearly as big elsewhere).... So B&W understands mass market appeal and is willing to make products that are not strictly aimed at die-hard audiophiles... But the key difference with them and Bose is that even those 'non-audiophile' products from B&W are still high quality, rather than just gimmicks...

The reason for headphones is because that is one of the fastest growing markets... The natural first upgrade for members of the iPod generation is to a better pair of cans... And Monster has shown that even the mass market is willing to spend $350 on Cans... So B&W could make money in that market and push their brand name even further into public consciousness...

TomKorn
01-18-2010, 02:09 PM
Hi.

I`m new at this forum, but i`d like to state some comments on the topic too.

I think there is in fact a very big difference between Bose and B&W:

Bose has always been all about marketing and pushing products.
I`m from Europe (Switzerland) and here they are omnipresent in all the big electronic discounters here. There are salesmen in these markets 24/7 that try to attract customers and then talk them into buying a Bose system.

B&W is still a manufacturer of great speakers, even if they now produce iPod docks and headphones (is`nt a headphone also some sort of speaker?). You know, in Europe, there is no big B&W marketing going on (except in all those hifi-magazines). But "normal" people don`t know B&W even exists, while everybody knows Bose.

See, I`m not a B&W fanboy, but i do own my CM6 speakers for some years now
and i`m still impressed and deeply satisfied with their sound quality. And i have listened to many other speakers too!

I do not like all that iPod crap (excuse my language) and I`m not happy with B&W producing docks for them since the iPod still is the worst sounding mobile music player ever, but I do see why they do it - it`s just a huge market - no more and no less.

Greetings,

Tom

pixelthis
01-18-2010, 03:39 PM
ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
To even think about comparing such a sterling company with...with...
with.....

bose!!!

Call the A-TEAM, SWAT, the MARINES.
Lets get this moron!

For Boze to even think of something like a Natilus tweeter would be like
a cocker spaniel inventing nuclear fusion.
I dont care if the writer is naive about audio.
That just means he should stay away from the subject.
GOD.!!!:1:

audio amateur
01-18-2010, 03:54 PM
Scary pic Pix !

Mr Peabody
01-18-2010, 06:49 PM
Welcome to the forum Tom, hope you plan to stay around, it's good to get a perspective from other countries. Jump in any thread that's what they are here for :)

Ajani
01-18-2010, 06:49 PM
When I think about it, isn't Bang and Olufsen the European equivalent of Bose???

They make the lifestyle speakers over there and seem to get dissed a hell of a lot on the UK Hi-Fi forums...

audio amateur
01-19-2010, 03:20 AM
I have to say I don't much about B&O but I know I would buy something from them anyday over Bose.

JoeE SP9
01-19-2010, 12:53 PM
B & O gear might be very stylish and "WAF" friendly but it's in a different universe from Bose. B & O makes some pretty good sounding stuff. Their Ice power modules and technology are used by several amplifier manufacturers. No one wants any Bose "technology".

Ajani
01-19-2010, 01:49 PM
B & O gear might be very stylish and "WAF" friendly but it's in a different universe from Bose. B & O makes some pretty good sounding stuff. Their Ice power modules and technology are used by several amplifier manufacturers. No one wants any Bose "technology".

All very good points... B&O is more what Bose would be if they put genuine effort into their design rather than just marketing... But either way, I think B&O is closer to what Bose (pretends to be) than B&W....

Truth is that I shouldn't diss B&O considering that I often question why more Hi-Fi companies don't make genuine efforts to produce quality products that are also really room friendly...

Shammy1
01-19-2010, 01:52 PM
Interesting how people seem to think its hip to bash Bose. I have never owned a B&W product but percieve them to be a first rate company. I have owned some things from Bose including a pair of 901's for almost 2 decades. Right now Bose does not produce anything that I care to have but believe they are a decent company. I cannot say a bad thing about any of Bose products that I have owned, everything held up well and did what it was designed to do. Of course everyone wants to be an audio expert and criticize Bose for producing products that may not be "audiophile" and feel they must stray from the norm. Bose sells alot of audio equipment becouse of good inginuity, great marketing and a fair product. I would certainly own another Bose product than some of the stuff I see in the signatures around this forum.

Ajani
01-19-2010, 02:07 PM
Interesting how people seem to think its hip to bash Bose. I have never owned a B&W product but percieve them to be a first rate company. I have owned some things from Bose including a pair of 901's for almost 2 decades. Right now Bose does not produce anything that I care to have but believe they are a decent company. I cannot say a bad thing about any of Bose products that I have owned, everything held up well and did what it was designed to do. Of course everyone wants to be an audio expert and criticize Bose for producing products that may not be "audiophile" and feel they must stray from the norm. Bose sells alot of audio equipment becouse of good inginuity, great marketing and a fair product. I would certainly own another Bose product than some of the stuff I see in the signatures around this forum.

In some ways you are correct... It is standard practice to bash Bose on Hi-Fi forums... And I also agree that not all of their products are total crap... Their Quiet Comfort headphones get good ratings for doing exactly what the name says: Quiet (excellent noise cancelling) and Comfort (self explanatory).... The sound quality is debated though... Their Wave Radios are expensive but certainly sound special considering their size....

The problem is that they are perceived as being "the best" by the mass market (based solely on smart advertising rather than delivering the best products)... That tends to irritate a lot of audiophiles... And hence they get bashed constantly....

Shammy1
01-19-2010, 04:16 PM
The problem is that they are perceived as being "the best" by the mass market (based solely on smart advertising rather than delivering the best products)... That tends to irritate a lot of audiophiles... And hence they get bashed constantly....[/QUOTE]


I agree.

Mr Peabody
01-19-2010, 05:21 PM
Something JoeE said got me thinking, I thought that maybe Bose might have been the originator of the Transmission Line, in fact, no.

I had been told that Bose uses that technology in the 901 and Wave. In doing some researching on 901's Bose has Direct Reflecting trademarked but I can't find out what it is, well, beyond what it says in the description about mixing direct and reflecting sound waves. A single search brought up Transmission Line but after a few I gave up on finding any real technical info on Bose. Maybe some one can help.

I thought Dr. Bose develope the Noise Cancelling Technology.and I guess he was the first to use it but Lawrence J. Fogel thought of the technology from what I found.

Hyfi
01-20-2010, 11:43 AM
Hi.

I`m new at this forum, but i`d like to state some comments on the topic too.

I think there is in fact a very big difference between Bose and B&W:

Bose has always been all about marketing and pushing products.
I`m from Europe (Switzerland) and here they are omnipresent in all the big electronic discounters here. There are salesmen in these markets 24/7 that try to attract customers and then talk them into buying a Bose system.

B&W is still a manufacturer of great speakers, even if they now produce iPod docks and headphones (is`nt a headphone also some sort of speaker?). You know, in Europe, there is no big B&W marketing going on (except in all those hifi-magazines). But "normal" people don`t know B&W even exists, while everybody knows Bose.

See, I`m not a B&W fanboy, but i do own my CM6 speakers for some years now
and i`m still impressed and deeply satisfied with their sound quality. And i have listened to many other speakers too!

I do not like all that iPod crap (excuse my language) and I`m not happy with B&W producing docks for them since the iPod still is the worst sounding mobile music player ever, but I do see why they do it - it`s just a huge market - no more and no less.

Greetings,

Tom

Welcome and nice to hear news from the other side. I'm in your camp as I rarely listen to anything but CDs. And yes, Headphones are some sort of speaker! I have a set of Grado cans that sound better than any current Bose speaker.

Although you don't care for B&W catering to iPods, the Zeppelin is incredible for what it is, even if ugly as sin. They need to make money and since we live in a generation where younger people thing a 256k MP3 is the best sounding thing they ever heard..........well there is your answer. If they stuck to High End consumers only, they would be just barely stay in business.

There was a thread over at Progressive Ears a few weeks ago about Critical Listening and the majority of people answered that their Critical Listening sessions were with iPods or similar MP3 Players. I'm not sure how that qualifies but it was the majority.

bfalls
01-20-2010, 12:34 PM
I don't think I've ever heard of Bose speakers being used as studio monitors in big name recording studios. I do recall B &W speakers being used for that purpose, though..

Absolutely correct. The B&W 801s (Matrix and Nautalis) are widely used in recording studios, especially those recording/authoring classical music. I remember reading many LP covers where recording equipment is listed ON THE COVER, and have seen the B&W 801 listed frequently. I've demoed them several times while traveling. It was always fun auditioning speakers I'd only read about in the rags.I don't remember them being the best I'd heard, but always very respectable and enjoyable. One of my all-time favorites were the Legacy Whispers. Very unique speaker, very unique sound.

Bose, 'nuf said. I'm so tired of hearing about their marketing. I have enjoyed their dedicated car systems. Not even close to the best, but respectable

RoadRunner6
01-21-2010, 11:58 PM
Bose sells alot of audio equipment becouse of good inginuity, great marketing and a fair product.

I have to agree that you got the middle one right, great marketing. The Bose method of marketing and selling IMO is why most knowledgeable people in Audio/HT and in marketing criticize them. There methods approach the unethical and their primary emphasis is on mass saturation of the Bose name with maximum profit and marginal quality. Their Bose stores and Bose sections in mass retailers are designed to attract the uninformed buyer (which covers the majority). Their products are designed to be easy to use and appeal to the buyers (especially female) who don't like lots of equipment in their room. All that is fine if they would make quality gear at fair price. The price/performance of the typical Bose Acoustimass system is appallingly poor. A system like the Energy Take classic system will way outperform a Bose system at a small fraction of the price. The same can be said of many other brands.

Bose is simply a company that has done a marvelous job at name recognition in a hard for the average buyer to understand product area and successfully sells way overpriced equipment of mediocre quality.

Mr. P, Bose did not invent the transmission line speaker design although their wave radio box might use a form of the concept. The direct/reflecting phrase was used in the original 901 speaker because there were 8 drivers facing the rear (reflecting sound off the rear wall of the room) and one driver facing the front (direct sound). This supposedly was the approximate percentage of direct to reflecting sound that is present in a concert hall. It sounded quite logical on first thought and was somewhat decent sounding with symphonic music played thru the 901's. From there on the logic was flawed. The 901 would spread many voices of a single soloist across the room unnaturally. The other huge problem with the original 901 was the very poor bass response which necessitated the EQ box and tremendous amp power to handle this. Sorry. I think I mentioned this in another post here. :biggrin5:

Mr Peabody
01-22-2010, 05:53 AM
I remember several years ago I considered one of those Bose units for my bedroom, it was a notebook looking all-in-one with sub and satelite powered speakers. I saw it at Circuit City. It looked cool and would have been a convenient fit. After listening to it, and honestly it was bad, and then seeing it cost over $1k, I said forget that, you have to be kidding me. Maybe people buy them for the looks regardless the sound.

RoadRunner6
01-23-2010, 11:04 PM
What I love about Bose is hearing their radio add about their Bose Wave Radio that is significantly overpriced at $500. It sounds so-so like a good table radio with over EQ'd bass.

In the add it states that Forbes FYI Magazine (a lifestyle magazine now called ForbesLife) says that the Bose Wave Radio sounds better than systems costing five times as much. That for you mathematically impaired folks is $2500! That is probably the most outrageous marketing claim I have heard about any audio product. This is pure irresponsible marketing.

This is the type of crap that Bose repeats over and over. Unfortunately, many fall for it.

Hyfi
01-24-2010, 04:38 AM
Maybe people buy them for the looks regardless the sound.


If MP3s are all they have to compare the sound to, and that is how it seems most people listen today, then yes it sounds great.

EYEdROP
01-31-2010, 11:00 PM
Sometimes I love listening to my music with Bose headphones or wave radio. I find their products to sound good in a different way then audiophile products. They use EQ and various processing, enhancements, and weird designs on purpose because most consumers appreciate that more then timbre accuracy. B&W is something for the audiophile or scientist, not consumer. You cannot compare them.

Mr Peabody
02-01-2010, 06:07 AM
I agree there's no comparison but B&W has reached out to the typical consumer. Their headphones are at about the same price as the Bose over the ear and B&W offer entry level speakers that consumers can afford to match with a receiver or budget amps.

audio amateur
10-27-2010, 04:28 AM
Anyone here have a chance to listen to them headphones yet? I haven't but i've seen people use them.

I'm also noticing more and more people using the new Monster headphones (Beats by Dr Dre), which is clearly the result of good marketing by Monster which makes use of the producer Dr Dre (and Lady gaga, with the 'Heartbeats' earbuds)... How pathetic.
http://beatsbydre.com/
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5596

Hyfi
10-27-2010, 05:33 AM
What I love about Bose is hearing their radio add about their Bose Wave Radio that is significantly overpriced at $500. It sounds so-so like a good table radio with over EQ'd bass.

In the add it states that Forbes FYI Magazine (a lifestyle magazine now called ForbesLife) says that the Bose Wave Radio sounds better than systems costing five times as much. That for you mathematically impaired folks is $2500! That is probably the most outrageous marketing claim I have heard about any audio product. This is pure irresponsible marketing.

This is the type of crap that Bose repeats over and over. Unfortunately, many fall for it.

What they forgot in the sentence was

Bose Wave Radio sounds better than systems costing five times as much (to manufacture). That's more like $50.

Ajani
10-27-2010, 05:41 AM
Anyone here have a chance to listen to them headphones yet? I haven't but i've seen people use them.

I'm also noticing more and more people using the new Monster headphones (Beats by Dr Dre), which is clearly the result of good marketing by Monster which makes use of the producer Dr Dre (and Lady gaga, with the 'Heartbeats' earbuds)... How pathetic.
http://beatsbydre.com/
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5596

What I think is really pathetic is that the HiFi community has let Bose and Monster have their way with the market...

Monster has the good sense to advertise the Beats heavily: they are in too many music videos to even count... So the mass market knows the brand...

When was the last time AKG, Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic launched a major ad campaign??? And they all have fantastic cans competing around the same price as the Beats...

Truth is that I really wish the major brands would stop acting like this is 1963 and freaking advertise... It works wonders for Monster and Bose, so there is no reason to believe it would not yield results for brands with quality products...

Feanor
10-27-2010, 06:41 AM
What I think is really pathetic is that the HiFi community has let Bose and Monster have their way with the market...

Monster has the good sense to advertise the Beats heavily: they are in too many music videos to even count... So the mass market knows the brand...

When was the last time AKG, Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic launched a major ad campaign??? And they all have fantastic cans competing around the same price as the Beats...

Truth is that I really wish the major brands would stop acting like this is 1963 and freaking advertise... It works wonders for Monster and Bose, so there is no reason to believe it would not yield results for brands with quality products...
The consumer is exceedingly ignorant and not too bright either. Easy prey for the hype and spin artists.

The same is true for the voter. Yoh, Americans: did you really thing that Obama could fix in two years what it took George W. eight years to fnck up??

pixelthis
10-27-2010, 12:28 PM
The consumer is exceedingly ignorant and not too bright either. Easy prey for the hype and spin artists.

The same is true for the voter. Yoh, Americans: did you really thing that Obama could fix in two years what it took George W. eight years to fnck up??

Don't generalize.
Obama is part of the group that is looting the US and selling it off for parts. EVERY
cabinet post (almost) comes from WALLSTREET.
His job is to make this country ready for the Rockerfellers, Sorros, BILDERBURGS,
basically to get us to sell what little freedom we have left for a bowl of can soup.
AND HE IS DOING A GREAT JOB.
There is a lot in this country that are clueless, but there is also a rather large number
that see's that it is too late and is making preparations.
BASICALLY this battle has been lost, time to start planning to win the next.
It may seem that all Americans are idiots, but it only seems so.:1:

pixelthis
10-27-2010, 12:33 PM
AND you blame BUSH gangsters and call Americans clueless? THE POWERS THAT BE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR at least several hundred years, you don't think the world could get this screwed up in eight, do ya?:1:

GMichael
10-27-2010, 12:36 PM
And here we go again. You two play nice.

Feanor
10-27-2010, 04:15 PM
AND you blame BUSH gangsters and call Americans clueless? THE POWERS THAT BE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR at least several hundred years, you don't think the world could get this screwed up in eight, do ya?:1:
You're the idiot, Pix.

I'll allow, though, that voters everywhere are stupid. If Canadian voters weren't stupid too we wouldn't have the Conservative Party government that we do.

Geoffcin
10-27-2010, 04:54 PM
I'm sorry guys, this is just not allowed in the G/A forum. Please take it to the "Steel Cage" if you want to continue. Thanks!

hifitommy
10-27-2010, 05:52 PM
not hardly. most b&w spks i have heard have been at least competent and a great deal of them are good values.

i didnt read through the prior posts so what i have just said may be repetitive. nonetheless they would get my consideration long before any bose speakers.