OT: Haiti [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : OT: Haiti



Mr MidFi
01-14-2010, 10:23 AM
Damn. Just... damn.

Every time I see or read anything on this still-unfolding story, it takes a turn for the worse. The word "tragedy" isn't even covering it anymore.

MSNBC has a comprehensive list of reputable relief organizations who are active in Haiti. All are clickable. Pick a winner (I'm partial to AmeriCares, but there are other good ones). If'n you can.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34835478/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/

ForeverAutumn
01-14-2010, 10:34 AM
I just heard on the radio that the Canadian Government has announced that they will match, dollar for dollar, donations to made to registered charitable groups for the Haitian disaster from Jan. 12 to Feb. 12, up to a maximum of $50 million.

JohnMichael
01-14-2010, 10:50 AM
Excellent post Mr MidFi. This will make it easy to help.

Clicking on AmeriCares site I was pleased to see the high percentage of money actually going to those in need. They are very quick to respond with a thank you and all you need for a tax deductible contribution.

MasterCylinder
01-14-2010, 01:52 PM
I just heard on the radio that the Canadian Government has announced that they will match, dollar for dollar, donations to made to registered charitable groups for the Haitian disaster from Jan. 12 to Feb. 12, up to a maximum of $50 million.


Oh, Canada !

Very good.

Will the Iranians, Saudi, or North Koreans chip in ?

And what about that a-hole in Venezuela ?

Finch Platte
01-14-2010, 02:25 PM
Will the Iranians, Saudi, or North Koreans chip in ?

And what about that a-hole in Venezuela ?

No kiddin'.

Thanks for the reminder. I looked in my email inbox & MoveOn had a couple of suggestions for donors, I chose to send Oxfam what I could.

Mr MidFi
01-14-2010, 03:00 PM
I chose to send Oxfam what I could.

Good on you. They're a real good org.

JohnMichael
01-14-2010, 07:38 PM
I am only working part time now but I sent a $50 donation through AmeriCares and I hope my fellow members who are able to can do the same. I am sure donations will be needed for a long time.

Rae
01-14-2010, 07:52 PM
And what about that a-hole in Venezuela ?

Dude, probably. I mean he did offer us a ton of aid after Hurricane Katrina.

Thanks for the links, MidFi.

I don't know a ton about Haiti and its people, but I did pick up this from the library a few months ago:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f3/f0/5e7d828fd7a0e15c13fe3110.L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Anyone else heard it?

~Rae

ForeverAutumn
01-15-2010, 06:09 AM
I am only working part time now but I sent a $50 donation through AmeriCares and I hope my fellow members who are able to can do the same. I am sure donations will be needed for a long time.

Good for you John.

I already make an automatic monthly contribution from my credit card to The Red Cross. They do such an incredible job every single day. But I did bump it up this month with an additional donation to the Haiti fund.

nightflier
01-15-2010, 11:27 AM
Ahem, a lot of these countries "pledge" b/m/zillions, but having worked with a couple of relief organizations, I can tell you that what is pledged is seldom received. It makes great news buzz, but when the bill needs to be paid, you can hear crickets chirping. Additionally, much of the government aid that is typically pledged is backed by corporate sponsorship and this has it's own set of strings attached.

I'm a bit cynical because these things happened when the 2004 Tsunami hit. I don't know if this is what will happen in Haiti, so this is just a cautionary post. From what I'm seeing in the news, it looks like there is still considerable attention on Haiti, so I hope the focus remains. By the way, both Venezuella and Cuba where the first on the scene with assistance and people "on the ground" in Haiti. Interestingly, both these countries also offered assistance in the aftermath of Katrina and were promptly turned away. And as before... I just read a report that the Dominicans have closed their border.

More to the point, the real misery happens well after the actual catastrophe hits, when hunger, disease and unrest set in, the media looses focus chasing the next big story and forgets about the suffering. Haiti is one of the poorest nations on earth with appalling inequality so my guess is that not all the aid will go to the right places. Let's hope we've learned a bit from our recent history.

ForeverAutumn
01-15-2010, 11:50 AM
More to the point, the real misery happens well after the actual catastrophe hits, when hunger, disease and unrest set in, the media looses focus chasing the next big story and forgets about the suffering. Haiti is one of the poorest nations on earth with appalling inequality so my guess is that not all the aid will go to the right places. Let's hope we've learned a bit from our recent history.

Let's not confuse the media losing interest with the relief efforts ending. The Red Cross (and other charitible groups, I'm sure) is still working in the tsunami damaged areas.

My niece is travelling to New Orleans in the spring with her school choir to perform at the Jazz Fest. One of the things that she will be doing there is working with Habitat for Humanity.

Many of the agencies helping out in Haiti will be there for many years now.

Yes, it's possible that not all the aid will go to the right places. But I hope that most of it will.

Mr MidFi
01-18-2010, 08:05 AM
AmeriCares has been doing excellent work in Haiti since the 1980s, and continue to do so today.

An interesting read about their efforts:
http://www.americares.org/wherewework/caribbean/haiti-help-aid-medical-care.html

Hyfi
01-18-2010, 11:24 AM
What boggles my mind is that we can always drum up money and send it after a disaster, but knowing the people there were starving and living in filth prompted nothing.

Also, how can the US government pledge 100 million dollars it clearly does not have, unless they will tax us to pay for it. Why can't they ever pledge 100 million to feed our own starving people?

Clearly I am not trying to take anything away from those who have contributed, including myself, but I always find myself questioning the situation that could have been prevented if we all cared before a tragedy happens. Everyone in the world know that these poor countries build massive buildings out of paper mache but does anyone care to help them before they are all crushed? The majority of deaths there could probably have been prevented if all these contributions were sent 20 years ago and not after the fact.

Also, I guess that the people there are mostly catholic so pumping out babies they can't afford is the norm since birth control is so taboo. It's about time people start realizing that Sex leads to Children and some form of birth control should be tought to these poor countries as we convert them to Christianity and cram our western ways down their throats.

Sorry for the rant, but this crap always gets to me because the world only cares after it's too late!

Swish
01-19-2010, 08:44 AM
What boggles my mind is that we can always drum up money and send it after a disaster, but knowing the people there were starving and living in filth prompted nothing.

Also, how can the US government pledge 100 million dollars it clearly does not have, unless they will tax us to pay for it. Why can't they ever pledge 100 million to feed our own starving people?

Clearly I am not trying to take anything away from those who have contributed, including myself, but I always find myself questioning the situation that could have been prevented if we all cared before a tragedy happens. Everyone in the world know that these poor countries build massive buildings out of paper mache but does anyone care to help them before they are all crushed? The majority of deaths there could probably have been prevented if all these contributions were sent 20 years ago and not after the fact.

Also, I guess that the people there are mostly catholic so pumping out babies they can't afford is the norm since birth control is so taboo. It's about time people start realizing that Sex leads to Children and some form of birth control should be tought to these poor countries as we convert them to Christianity and cram our western ways down their throats.

Sorry for the rant, but this crap always gets to me because the world only cares after it's too late!

'People starving' here in the US isn't a 'disaster', but a social problem. I would bet much more than $100 Million is spent on our homeless/starving people each year, but as in the biblical passage 'give a man fish and feed him for one day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime' . I have no problem helping someone down and out, but we need to help them get back on their feet so they can be self-sufficient. Haiti has way too many problems for us to solve their on-going struggles (ruthless dictators who steal all the money meant for its starving people) and we really don't want to end up running another country. Iraq is/was bad enough.

As for some of your other comments, regarding birth control and what not, that's a slippery slope my friend. Third World countries will always have these issues until they are no longer a Third World Country.

nightflier
01-19-2010, 01:14 PM
What boggles my mind is that we can always drum up money and send it after a disaster, but knowing the people there were starving and living in filth prompted nothing.

Yep, but when we're busy spending $600-800B a year on catching a guy wandering the caves of Tora-bora with a dialysis machine, it makes you wonder where our priorities really lie. Would $1B of that budget really be missed if we decided to give it to the starving poor in Haiti, or our own Indian reservations for that matter?


Also, how can the US government pledge 100 million dollars it clearly does not have, unless they will tax us to pay for it.

Actually, that figure includes an estimate of the donations that you and millions of other Americans have already made as well as corporate sponsorships. These corporate "gifts," are typically for goods and services, not cash, that they have "left over" in surplus warehouses and that these companies will get handsome tax write-offs for. But they also come with strings attached, in that the Haitians will now need to drink Aquafina rather than getting money to build their own water treatment plant. They will be getting oil from Texaco rather than Citgo, even though it will cost them twice as much. Likewise, medicines will be from Pfizer instead of a generic company, Police forces will be from private security firms such as All Pro Legal Investigations out of Florida, rather than their own, and computers will be from HP instead of Hyundai. The list goes on.

If you really want to know how this system works, you should pick up a copy of Confessions of an Economic Hitman, where the author goes into quite a bit of detail on how this happens. Of particular interest is the part where Perkins describes at what point these economic hitmen are sent in. You guessed it: right after a "disaster" and if one does not occur, it is "created." The book has been attacked by a number of people for having some incorrect details and sources, but that does not detract from the overall message, which is quite revolting.


Also, I guess that the people there are mostly catholic so pumping out babies they can't afford is the norm since birth control is so taboo. It's about time people start realizing that Sex leads to Children and some form of birth control should be tought to these poor countries as we convert them to Christianity and cram our western ways down their throats.

Wow, OK, but for the sake of argument, let's address the biggest factor in this issue: safe and fair access to reproductive health services. The truth is that the largest source of funding for these services had traditionally come from the US, but over the last 20 years, this has been curtailed considerably. Most recently, the fact that these services did not have abstinence as a primary focus and did not include a religious component, was used repeatedly as a reason for cutting funding. Whether that was the reason or not, the fact is that these services are now severely underfunded. Finally, of whatever funds remained, there is no telling how much was siphoned off by the Haitian elite. My wife has worked with Doctors w/o Borders, and she can tell you some stories.

Politics aside, I am actually quite amazed at the similarities between the aftermath of this disaster and the horrible events that followed Katrina. Racism especially, is playing a much larger role in these events, and it is a travesty of our civilization that in the face of so much suffering we still can't get past our own petty prejudices.

More to the point, one thing that has puzzled me for some time, is the US's heavy-handed approach to anything related to Haiti. What is it about this poorest of nations that requires our government to be so disparagingly cruel and indifferent, a political/military position quite unlike that which we have towards any other Caribbean nation? What's going on today, is the same thing that's been happening for decades - I distinctly remember the fall of Baby Doc and his Tonton Macoutes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonton_Macoute) - we "rescued" the whole lot of them - Duvalier robbed and abused his own people in ways that would make Stalin blush, and now he's living in Southern France like honored royalty. In contrast, Aristide was the only democratically elected president of Haiti ever, and we kidnapped him and placed him under house arrest in South Africa - what did he do that warranted that? You tell me.

Maybe the real question here is why do we continue to abuse Haiti unlike any other nation?

Hyfi
01-20-2010, 04:07 AM
Yep, but when we're busy spending $600-800B a year on catching a guy wandering the caves of Tora-bora with a dialysis machine, it makes you wonder where our priorities really lie. Would $1B of that budget really be missed if we decided to give it to the starving poor in Haiti, or our own Indian reservations for that matter?


Yeah, that's more of what I am talking about. We could have been helping poorer nations learn to build a little better so this does not keep happening. If we helped people build things right in the first place, it would be a whole lot cheaper than rebuilding later after events like this.

I have wanted for years to start a campaign to have everyone in the world give up Fireworks for 1 year. Yeah I know the MFGs need to stay in business so that could be worked out.

Do you realize just how much money is wasted on fireworks every year just so the Have's can oooh and ahhh over it. So while we all sit comfy with our drinks and stupid hats, people all over the world are dropping dead of hunger, disease and disaster while we waste Billions on fireworks displays. Just the recent Sydney display could have fed the people of Haiti.

It's a real shame this is what the human spirituality has come to. Where the F are peoples priorities anymore? I would much rather feed someone than piss money into the air.

Finch Platte
01-20-2010, 08:54 AM
Do you realize just how much money is wasted on fireworks every year just so the Have's can oooh and ahhh over it.

Just a minor quibble, but at least in my town, it's the Have-nots that get to see the fireworks. The city doesn't charge for it (not yet!), and it's held at a park where entry/parking is free.

I really think that your attention (however well-intended) could be focused better elsewhere than fireworks. :)

And hey, the Chinese invented fireworks, which led to rockets/NASA, which led to millions of dollars spent towards finding out if there's water on Mars! There's a boondoggle for you to rant over! :p

Hyfi
01-20-2010, 09:45 AM
Just a minor quibble, but at least in my town, it's the Have-nots that get to see the fireworks. The city doesn't charge for it (not yet!), and it's held at a park where entry/parking is free.

I really think that your attention (however well-intended) could be focused better elsewhere than fireworks. :)

And hey, the Chinese invented fireworks, which led to rockets/NASA, which led to millions of dollars spent towards finding out if there's water on Mars! There's a boondoggle for you to rant over! :p

By Have's, I meant all the countries that have fireworks, where the have nots have nothing.

Fireworks is just one example of wasted money that could be better spent and not have any adverse affect on the people who did not get to see them for a year, unless they suffer from Fireworks Withdraw.

Your right, who cares if there is/was water on mars, nobody is going to be living there. That and all the other things governments waste money on instead of things that really matter.

ForeverAutumn
01-20-2010, 10:06 AM
Every cent counts. Give up buying music and gear for a year and donate the money you save to charity.

Hyfi
01-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Every cent counts. Give up buying music and gear for a year and donate the money you save to charity.

I do both. But, I actually only buy about 3 CDs a year and gear only when it breaks. I probably donate much more than I spend on Audio hobbies.:prrr:

ForeverAutumn
01-20-2010, 10:22 AM
I do both. But, I actually only buy about 3 CDs a year and gear only when it breaks. I probably donate much more than I spend on Audio hobbies.:prrr:

And I'm willing to bet that both of our countries provide more support to third world countries than they spend on fireworks.

It's not that I think that your idea is a bad one. I'm just not sure that the money would get to where it's supposed to go. I think that the bigger issue is the corrupt governments who run many of these third world countries. Why should we give up anything to pad the pockets of corrupt politicians who don't give a rat's ass about helping the people that they govern?

Hyfi
01-20-2010, 10:35 AM
And I'm willing to bet that both of our countries provide more support to third world countries than they spend on fireworks.

It's not that I think that your idea is a bad one. I'm just not sure that the money would get to where it's supposed to go. I think that the bigger issue is the corrupt governments who run many of these third world countries. Why should we give up anything to pad the pockets of corrupt politicians who don't give a rat's ass about helping the people that they govern?

We are doing it now right? What is the difference except for the fact that we have to help 200,000 less people now that before.

Whether we help other countries or our own, we waste way too much money on meaningless things like Fireworks.

Sure like Finch said, it's usually free.....to the eyes of the mis-informed. The towns or cities then have to subsidize it as well as pay out a bunch of overtime to the cops, the cleanup crews and so on. So now what you thought was free is the reason your taxes just got raised or your city is in a huge deficit, like most city budgets already are.

ForeverAutumn
01-20-2010, 11:06 AM
Sure like Finch said, it's usually free.....to the eyes of the stupid.

Hey Finchy, I think that Hyfi just called you stupid! :sosp:

I don't have time for this discussion right now. I shouldn't have started. Sorry.

Hyfi
01-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Hey Finchy, I think that Hyfi just called you stupid! :sosp:

I don't have time for this discussion right now. I shouldn't have started. Sorry.

but my post says mis-informed:cornut:

Finch Platte
01-20-2010, 01:13 PM
but my post says mis-informed:cornut:

Lol.

But anyhoo, I don't think taking away entertainment is the answer. When do you stop?

nightflier
01-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Why should we give up anything to pad the pockets of corrupt politicians who don't give a rat's ass about helping the people that they govern?

Ahem, that applies to politicians in Haiti as much as to politicians in Canada, the US, or any other Western nation, no? I doubt Tim Geithner is very different from any other corrupt Haitian politician (Jocelyne Fethiere?), except maybe that his corruption is proportionally greater on account of our larger economy. Maybe that makes him an even bigger crook.

ForeverAutumn
01-20-2010, 04:35 PM
Ahem, that applies to politicians in Haiti as much as to politicians in Canada, the US, or any other Western nation, no?

No.

Transparency International rates countries each year on perceived levels of government corruption. Where zero is the worst and 10 is the best, in 2009 Haiti ranked a 1.8. Out of 180 countries they were number 168. 180 (Somalia) was the percieved the most corrupt. Number 1 (perceived the least corrupt) is New Zealand with a rating of 9.4.

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table

The Red Cross does a similar survey. They ranked Haiti as number 155 out of 159 countries.

I'm not suggesting that both of our countries don't have corrupt policiticians. I know they do. It's a proven fact. But we don't live in virtual poverty without electricity and clean water because our Governments don't allow us to have the necessities of life.

I don't believe that you can compare the political problems in the western world with the corruption that exists in the third world.

Swish
01-21-2010, 06:26 AM
No.

Transparency International rates countries each year on perceived levels of government corruption. Where zero is the worst and 10 is the best, in 2009 Haiti ranked a 1.8. Out of 180 countries they were number 168. 180 (Somalia) was the percieved the most corrupt. Number 1 (perceived the least corrupt) is New Zealand with a rating of 9.4.

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table

The Red Cross does a similar survey. They ranked Haiti as number 155 out of 159 countries.

I'm not suggesting that both of our countries don't have corrupt policiticians. I know they do. It's a proven fact. But we don't live in virtual poverty without electricity and clean water because our Governments don't allow us to have the necessities of life.

I don't believe that you can compare the political problems in the western world with the corruption that exists in the third world.

Donating money to the Red Cross is something that we've done in the past because we know it won't be pilfered by corrupt dictators.

Auricauricle
01-21-2010, 10:53 AM
This is just terrible...beyond anything I can imagine....The first quake was a catastrophe. The second one: biblical. Good for you guys to fight the good fight.

Mr MidFi
01-21-2010, 11:24 AM
...and sometimes it can seem like it's a bottomless pit of despair over there. And elsewhere. But each small candle lights a corner of the gloom. And every drop of water fills the well, eventually.

Ya does what ya can, man.

nightflier
01-21-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm not suggesting that both of our countries don't have corrupt policiticians. I know they do. It's a proven fact. But we don't live in virtual poverty without electricity and clean water because our Governments don't allow us to have the necessities of life.

I don't believe that you can compare the political problems in the western world with the corruption that exists in the third world.

Not to compare, but there are many places in this country where there is no clean water or electricity. Just take a peek at some of our infamous Indian reservations. Even in the inner city where there is water, in some places you wouldn't want to drink it.

Haiti is no picknick, but my point is that human nature is what it is. If Geithner was Minister of Commerce in Haiti, he'd be just as corrupt. Likewise if whoever is the Haitian Minister of Commerce where in Geithner's shoes he'd do about the same too, as much as he could get away with here.

Additionally, that there is a tad more transparency here and in Canada, does not change the fact that the scale of the corruption is much greater. Geithner has made his friends so incredibly more rich, if you add all that up, that it would equal many times the GNP of several Haitis. The simple fact is that the disparity between Geithner's friends and the poorest people in the US, is greater than in any other country in the world in the history of mankind and most certainly an order of magnitude greater than the disparity between the rich and poor in Haiti. This inequality is perverse to the extreme. Surely we can agree that if just the CEO of oh, I dunno, AIG, was made to pay back the millions he robbed from the US tax payers, that this amount could save thousands of lives in Haiti, even now. Personally, I think that would not be a bad trade-off.

Today I read that they are amputating legs and arms from children w/o anesthesia. I can't possibly imagine what that must be like.

ForeverAutumn
01-21-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm not well educated enough on the topic of corrupt governments or Tim Geithner to respond. In fact, I had to google the name after reading your original post because I didn't know who he was. But I think what it comes down to is the difference between corrupt politicians and corrupt governments.

When a politician is corrupt, you hope that he or she will be caught and brought to justice. Both of our countries have a stong justice system and Constitution to guide us. But who do you turn to when the entire government is corrupt? When the justice system is not just and the Constitution is not exercised?

But we're getting way off topic here. My original point was that I didn't want to give up anything to pad the pockets of the corrupt. I would, however, gladly make sacrifices to help poor nations if I knew that the money was going to the right places.


Surely we can agree that if just the CEO of oh, I dunno, AIG, was made to pay back the millions he robbed from the US tax payers, that this amount could save thousands of lives in Haiti, even now. Personally, I think that would not be a bad trade-off.

Yes. We can certainly agree on that.

nightflier
01-21-2010, 01:32 PM
My original point was that I didn't want to give up anything to pad the pockets of the corrupt. I would, however, gladly make sacrifices to help poor nations if I knew that the money was going to the right places.

A lot of charities have been hurt by the current economy and the popular perception that charities don't use the money wisely. The fact is that most charities do use the money well, and this isn't just the big names out there. One of the charities I support is Doctors w/o Borders, who are there now, on the ground. What I think is key is that they bring skilled people to troubled areas, rather than money that can be siphoned off by corrupt people. They also put pressure on local governments to get the medicines and supplies to the places they will be, so they do help curb corruption that way.

And as someone else said, every little drop does eventually fill the well.

Stone
01-21-2010, 02:01 PM
We donated a bunch of clothes through some mission, because word is the Haitians are wearing clothes for 2-3 days, then trashing or burning them because there is no way to wash the clothes. Hopefully, the stuff will get down there soon.

ForeverAutumn
01-21-2010, 02:34 PM
A lot of charities have been hurt by the current economy and the popular perception that charities don't use the money wisely. The fact is that most charities do use the money well, and this isn't just the big names out there. One of the charities I support is Doctors w/o Borders, who are there now, on the ground. What I think is key is that they bring skilled people to troubled areas, rather than money that can be siphoned off by corrupt people. They also put pressure on local governments to get the medicines and supplies to the places they will be, so they do help curb corruption that way.

And as someone else said, every little drop does eventually fill the well.

Agreed, I donate on a monthly basis to The Red Cross general fund and then as needed when a tragedy like this strikes. I like The Red Cross because they work directly with the people to help the people. And they'll stay in the region for as long as their assistance is needed. They are still present in regions hit by the Tsunami several years ago.


We donated a bunch of clothes through some mission, because word is the Haitians are wearing clothes for 2-3 days, then trashing or burning them because there is no way to wash the clothes. Hopefully, the stuff will get down there soon.

That's a great idea!

JohnMichael
01-21-2010, 07:32 PM
Agreed, I donate on a monthly basis to The Red Cross general fund and then as needed when a tragedy like this strikes. I like The Red Cross because they work directly with the people to help the people. And they'll stay in the region for as long as their assistance is needed. They are still present in regions hit by the Tsunami several years ago.



That's a great idea!



Donating clothes is a great ideas but mine might be a little large for a malnourished country. The Red Cross now has a text message system where by texting them you donate about $10 and it appears on your cell phone bill. That way you can defer your donation until the next bill.