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IRG
01-11-2010, 04:52 AM
OK, so I haven't been back to these boards in years, my interest waned from hi fi to playing guitar, and all of my free time and what little money I've had has gone into the electric guitar.

So I recently redid my very budget Man Cave in the basement (where I play guitar) and I decided it's time to upgrade the old Magnavox 2 (sometimes 2, there's a short) channel boombox, lol. Yeah, it's about a $5 flea market find.

So what I want is a very basic 2 channel system that will include a receiver, cd player, bookshelf speakers, and a turntable. I own both cds, records, burned cds. I think getting back into vinyl would be fun. And surprisingly (or not) my local music shops sell more vinyl than cd, Best Buy not included.

Budget is really tight, not sure exactly, but I'm thinking $200/component or less. I'll upgrade as necessary over time. I don't need a high end system like what most have here. It's just for the ocassional listening session, which with 3 kids, is like never, but a guy can dream.

I have a local stereo shop that sells nice stuff, and usually budget used stuff, I haven't been in a while, but I'll check them out too. I don't mind buying used via audiogon or even ebay, but I'll have to do research, as a lot of old stuff I'm not familiar with these days. And even new stuff, I'm not sure what's good.

Yamah, Onkyo, NAD for the receiver? Go new or vintage? CD player and turntable, not sure which direction to go. Any new budget turntables that are worth it? Denon or Sony or?

Speakers: I have an old pair of JBL HLS610, but the speaker is ripped, and I was told some time ago, they speaker replacement was expensive, probably not worth it. I wouldn't mind a nice newer pair anyway. Polk, Kef, Paradigm, Infinity, Monitor Audio, Insignia (yeah, their $70 pair intrigues me). I don't think I'll use a sub either, I want this simple, for now. I can always upgrade later. It also doesn't need to be real loud, it's a small room.

Music will be for some jazz, blues, classical, rock. No rap or techno stuff. So, where should I begin, advice, gear to look for, it's been a long time since I've checked out this stuff, sorry for the long post. Cheers.

Mr Peabody
01-11-2010, 06:27 AM
I would recommend checking Craigslist or local thrifts for vintage receivers that have the phono stage built in, an older Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz or Sansui. You should be able to find an older receiver for under $100.00. Haven't heard the Insignia but BB has a 30 return if you don't like them. I was looking for some stuff for a friend and noticed they also sell a pair of Sony 8" 3-way floor speakers for $169.00 a pair. I would also look used for a turntable, a vintage Pioneer or Technics. It may not sound great but you can find used DVD players for under $50.00, well under usually, a DVD player will play CD's. If going new you would spend your budget on just one piece. There are also a lot of speakers on Craigslist too. Many of which are cheap, if you can find some in good condition that may be an option as well. Good hunting.....

IRG
01-11-2010, 06:52 AM
Thanks Mr. Peabody. I don't live in a large community, just checked out the CL offerings, and really nothing there. But I'll keep an eye out more now. Plus the local shop seems to get some decent used gear. I wish they would list it online, but they don't.

I've always felt that speakers seems to make the most sense to splurge a bit, but a decent amp is important too, as are the tt and cd/dvd players. I might spend a bit more to have "decent" equipment, vs. stuff that works for the moment. I have good intentions of spending little, but it never seems to work out that way, lol.

With turntables, I know very little. Does it makes sense to buy a cheap(er) but new model now, and upgrade later? Or maybe spend a bit more now for an older but maybe better model? I know it's all relative, a $1k tt to some, is a budget model. But anything new from Sony, Denon, etc. worth getting at all? My vinyl collection is pretty much terrible, but I would like to start getting some nice stuff on vinyl in the future, so the investment would be worth it. As for CD's I have quite a few, and I burn some off the computer, so that is important too, and a decent cd player is probably worthwhile. Maybe an older Sony ES model, or the current one with SACD? I don't have any discs on SACD, so maybe it's moot.

As for amps, are the current offerings of a 2 channel receiver from Onkyo, Yamaha or Denon pretty good? I do use the AM/FM, otherwise I might go integrated, but I don't think I would realize the sonic benefits of a better amp in this system, not yet anyway. Wouldn't mind a nice tube amp in the future, like the 2 I have for my guitars. But for now, it will have to be ss.

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 07:12 AM
All new options (although I'm over budget)...

Denon DRA-297 receiver - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3365.asp

Denon DP-300F turntable - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3145.asp

Denon DVD-1740 DVD/CD player - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3744.asp

Paradigm Atom - http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/fronts-monitor-atommonitor-model-2-4-1-1.paradigm


I really don't think it makes as much sense to buy a cheap new turntable now and upgrade later as it does to just buy something decent, now. It's not a huge investment to buy a Denon DP-300F or Pro-Ject Debut III and it should be good for many years. With either turntable, I'd look at a cartridge upgrade (http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/539.asp)at some point. It's less urgent with the Pro-Ject turntable than the Denon. The advantage of the Denon is its built-in phono preamp so you don't need a phono input on the receiver. Receivers with phono inputs are less common than they used to be, so needing one would limit your options.

IRG
01-11-2010, 08:21 AM
Thanks man, funny I was doing a little research, and I came up with that same turntable (Denon). I think that might be a good idea, get a better cartridge later one, I like that idea.

How would the Denon receiver compare to the Yamaha RX397?

As for speakers, I'll check out the Atom. I have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3s in my main system, they've been good speakers. I was also checking out the Polk RTi4 or th Tsi100, both pairs get good reviews, under $200. But I'll check out the Atoms for sure.

I'll check out that Denon DVD/Cd player option too... thanks.



All new options (although I'm over budget)...

Denon DRA-297 receiver - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3365.asp

Denon DP-300F turntable - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3145.asp

Denon DVD-1740 DVD/CD player - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3744.asp

Paradigm Atom - http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/fronts-monitor-atommonitor-model-2-4-1-1.paradigm


I really don't think it makes as much sense to buy a cheap new turntable now and upgrade later as it does to just buy something decent, now. It's not a huge investment to buy a Denon DP-300F or Pro-Ject Debut III and it should be good for many years. With either turntable, I'd look at a cartridge upgrade (http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/539.asp)at some point. It's less urgent with the Pro-Ject turntable than the Denon. The advantage of the Denon is its built-in phono preamp so you don't need a phono input on the receiver. Receivers with phono inputs are less common than they used to be, so needing one would limit your options.

IRG
01-11-2010, 08:26 AM
How much do the Atoms run normally, new?

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 08:37 AM
Seems like they were $250 at the time of this review...

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/907para/

and you have a dealer in Ithaca, but I guess you probably knew that.

IRG
01-11-2010, 08:48 AM
Seems like they were $250 at the time of this review...

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/907para/

and you have a dealer in Ithaca, but I guess you probably knew that.

Yes I do have a local dealer, that's where I got my Monitor 3s, but it's been a long time since I've been there. Time to go visit again!

harley .guy07
01-11-2010, 10:35 AM
Paradigm Mini Monitor's that were built in the late 90's were great speakers for small monitor type speakers as well and I have seen them go for under 100 dollars in rare occasions but most of the time around 100 to 120 dollars for the pair used. I used to sell Paradigm and the Mini Monitor was one of our good sellers for people in apartments or for second systems in a bedroom or "Mancave". As far as a receiver,turntable, and cd player there are so many options ou there in used stuff that are really good deals that it would probably be easier for you to look around and get a list of stuff that you have found that is affordable for you and then come back and post about these pieces and let all of t us discuss which pieces are going to give you the most for your money. I know this might take a little longer but having several minds on a task like this is better than just one in my opinion. There are a few other speakers out there like the Mini Monitor that are great for the money. PSB speakers make some small speakers that are very good and cheap used. Wharfedale makes a few affordable speakers but I can not advise them since I have not heard a pair of their newer speakers. I would look around audiogon and ebay like you said or craiglist and get your eyes open for a good deal.

blackraven
01-11-2010, 10:55 AM
Receivers- Harmon Kardon 338o, 3480 http://www.gadgetreview.com/2009/12/harman-kardon-hk-3390-stereo-receiver-235-shipped.html
http://techronics.com/caraudio_1303_Harman-Kardon-HK3480-Component-Stereo-Receiver.html?aff=72182

Onkyo Tx 8522- http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8522-Watt-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B000GHDPHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263235283&sr=8-1

Cd Player Marantz cd5003 http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2&products_id=9755&osCsid=5c33cdcf60a2f50af5868e16b3762776

Speakers- Energy C-300's

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300


Check out www.saturdayaudio.com Look at their demo gear for sale. They have an Onkyo Integra 7.1ch receiver for $299, list was $800. They also have some Denon DVD players on sale. The Denon DVD players make for a decent CD player.

IRG
01-11-2010, 12:34 PM
Paradigm Mini Monitor's that were built in the late 90's were great speakers for small monitor type speakers as well and I have seen them go for under 100 dollars in rare occasions but most of the time around 100 to 120 dollars for the pair used. I used to sell Paradigm and the Mini Monitor was one of our good sellers for people in apartments or for second systems in a bedroom or "Mancave". As far as a receiver,turntable, and cd player there are so many options ou there in used stuff that are really good deals that it would probably be easier for you to look around and get a list of stuff that you have found that is affordable for you and then come back and post about these pieces and let all of t us discuss which pieces are going to give you the most for your money. I know this might take a little longer but having several minds on a task like this is better than just one in my opinion. There are a few other speakers out there like the Mini Monitor that are great for the money. PSB speakers make some small speakers that are very good and cheap used. Wharfedale makes a few affordable speakers but I can not advise them since I have not heard a pair of their newer speakers. I would look around audiogon and ebay like you said or craiglist and get your eyes open for a good deal.

Thanks Harley for the feedback, I was going to suggest something similar, after some research, about posting some potential gear, and see how you all think it stacks up. Half the fun is the chase, isn't it? I do like PSB stuff, and Paradigm too. Haven't used Wharfedale myself, but I recall them being well received generally.

manlystanley
01-11-2010, 12:41 PM
Half the fun is the chase, isn't it?

You bet! It's fun playing with this stuff and learning as we go.......

IRG
01-11-2010, 12:47 PM
Receivers- Harmon Kardon 338o, 3480 http://www.gadgetreview.com/2009/12/harman-kardon-hk-3390-stereo-receiver-235-shipped.html
http://techronics.com/caraudio_1303_Harman-Kardon-HK3480-Component-Stereo-Receiver.html?aff=72182

Onkyo Tx 8522- http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8522-Watt-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B000GHDPHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263235283&sr=8-1

Cd Player Marantz cd5003 http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2&products_id=9755&osCsid=5c33cdcf60a2f50af5868e16b3762776

Speakers- Energy C-300's

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300


Check out www.saturdayaudio.com Look at their demo gear for sale. They have an Onkyo Integra 7.1ch receiver for $299, list was $800. They also have some Denon DVD players on sale. The Denon DVD players make for a decent CD player.


Thanks for the links, definitely some good stuff to check out here. I hadn't thought of a DVD player in lieu of a "dedicated" cd player. But the Denon one that was listed in the earlier post above, is actually cheaper new, and it does SACD and DVD Audio, so score.

IRG
01-11-2010, 12:51 PM
You bet! It's fun playing with this stuff and learning as we go.......

Well my guitar gear GAS has been out of control for a while, I figure I should spread it back to audio for a while :) I liked that reviewer from Stereophile, Sam Tellig I think his name was, the frugal audiophile, or whatever his moniker was. I like looking for a budget system that sounds good, but isn't tons of money. My guitar rig is kinda like that too. I probably have $2k or more just in guitar pedals. But I've been downsizing lately, sort of liberating too.

IRG
01-11-2010, 04:00 PM
How is this Yamaha DVD player, as a cd unit? Seems to get good reviews for its audio features, almost 3 years old now, was $449, but is $79 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-DVD-S1800BL-1080p-Upconverting-Player/dp/B000WKTG76/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=tv&qid=1263246520&sr=1-1

harley .guy07
01-11-2010, 04:04 PM
Well my guitar gear GAS has been out of control for a while, I figure I should spread it back to audio for a while :) I liked that reviewer from Stereophile, Sam Tellig I think his name was, the frugal audiophile, or whatever his moniker was. I like looking for a budget system that sounds good, but isn't tons of money. My guitar rig is kinda like that too. I probably have $2k or more just in guitar pedals. But I've been downsizing lately, sort of liberating too.

Yeah I have several hobbies which include Audio, bass playing, and harley davidsons and they all take a lot of money to keep up with so sometimes you kind of got to step back and say which one will make the happiest to concentrate on right now and go with it. My Bass rig is awesome and I have 2 bad ass basses so I am done with that for now so my next steps will be my audio system and possibly a new lcd tv.

blackraven
01-11-2010, 04:12 PM
How is this Yamaha DVD player, as a cd unit? Seems to get good reviews for its audio features, almost 3 years old now, was $449, but is $79 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-DVD-S1800BL-1080p-Upconverting-Player/dp/B000WKTG76/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=tv&qid=1263246520&sr=1-1

For $79 its worth a look. If you don't like it your only out $79 and can buy something nicer when you have more money. I would get some decent IC's like bluejeanscables for $30pr. I'd put the money saved to a Harmon Kardon receiver.

IRG
01-11-2010, 04:54 PM
For $79 its worth a look. If you don't like it your only out $79 and can buy something nicer when you have more money. I would get some decent IC's like bluejeanscables for $30pr. I'd put the money saved to a Harmon Kardon receiver.


I'm leaning towards the Yamaha RX-397 at the moments, this one here: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RX397/Yamaha-RX-397.html?tp=179

Seems to get really good reviews everywhere. Which Harmon Kardon would you recommend over the Yamaha? Also, if I went with the Yamaha receiver, it should be able to control that Yamaha dvd player too I would think, at least basic controls, which would be enough.

Is the QC with HarmondKardon good these days? Always seemed to be an issue as I recall years ago. I currently have a NAD 5 channel receiver in the living room, nothing fancy at all, but this thing gets used for hours a day, and has been great overall. If I could find a good affordable NAD I would go that route too. But something about the Yamaha receivers I've always liked too.

Also leaning towards the Denon 300F turntable at the moment. For $300, or maybe less, I don't think I can beat that. Upgrade the cartridge later.

Edit, I see the HK 3390 you mentioned earlier, checking it out now at Amazon...

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 04:58 PM
Get the DP-300F for $200 here...

http://www.dakmart.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=dp-300f&osCsid=4an3mldbehtsi7j3tak1mu5ph4

harley .guy07
01-11-2010, 05:05 PM
I am not sure about the HK quality control either but I do know that they sell some units at Best Buy and I talked to one of the managers there and they said they aren't bad but the quality does not seem to be what Denon, Onkyo, And some Yamaha are doing now but I used to be an avid Yamaha fan and I will say that in new units it seems to me that Denon and Onkyo have one upped Yamaha in the last couple years when it comes to quality. Its all up to you on whether you go new or used but for your purpose I think a used unit that is more dedicated to 2 channel stereo would serve you better. Possibly a used integrated amp since almost every integrated amplifier I have seen put better preamp and amplifier components in them than their receiver counterparts. Plus a used av receiver would have a lot of extra stuff on it that you will probably never use for music playback. I have plenty of used integrated amps from Denon and Yamaha among others that are cheaply priced and offer in my opinion better overall sound quality than most of the receivers going in the under 1000 dollar mark in todays world. Just my two cents

IRG
01-11-2010, 05:08 PM
Get the DP-300F for $200 here...

http://www.dakmart.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=dp-300f&osCsid=4an3mldbehtsi7j3tak1mu5ph4


Nice find, thanks! I knew this place would help me spend $$$. And help me save it.

IRG
01-11-2010, 05:11 PM
I am not sure about the HK quality control either but I do know that they sell some units at Best Buy and I talked to one of the managers there and they said they aren't bad but the quality does not seem to be what Denon, Onkyo, And some Yamaha are doing now but I used to be an avid Yamaha fan and I will say that in new units it seems to me that Denon and Onkyo have one upped Yamaha in the last couple years when it comes to quality. Its all up to you on whether you go new or used but for your purpose I think a used unit that is more dedicated to 2 channel stereo would serve you better. Possibly a used integrated amp since almost every integrated amplifier I have seen put better preamp and amplifier components in them than their receiver counterparts. Plus a used av receiver would have a lot of extra stuff on it that you will probably never use for music playback. I have plenty of used integrated amps from Denon and Yamaha among others that are cheaply priced and offer in my opinion better overall sound quality than most of the receivers going in the under 1000 dollar mark in todays world. Just my two cents

I hear what you're saying. But the Yamaha's RX line is a 2 channel stereo only, no ht stuff on it, which I like. So it's basically no frills, sort of like a decent integrated amp, but with the am/fm added. The Denon and Onkyo still interest me too. I had a 2 channel Onkyo way back, and it was a great little receiver. I also had an Onkyo power/pre amp that was good too, although pretty basic.

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 05:19 PM
Here's a good place to get a deal on a 2-channel Onkyo receiver:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTX8555/Onkyo/Tx-8555-2-channel-Stereo-Receiver-100w-X-2ch-Black/1.html

or a Marantz with phono input...

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR4021/Marantz/Sr4021-Receiver-80w-X-2ch-Stereo-With-Video-Switching/1.html

IRG
01-11-2010, 05:25 PM
Here's a good place to get a deal on a 2-channel Onkyo receiver:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTX8555/Onkyo/Tx-8555-2-channel-Stereo-Receiver-100w-X-2ch-Black/1.html

or a Marantz with phono input...

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR4021/Marantz/Sr4021-Receiver-80w-X-2ch-Stereo-With-Video-Switching/1.html

I've been checking them out too, especially the Onkyo. Is AC4Less a reputably place?

thekid
01-11-2010, 06:00 PM
As the resident cheap bast@#rd I can tell that putting together a somewhat decent 2-channel set-up is possible with a little patience, a little luck and a little know-how. My tastes tend towards older gear and I have been fortunate to put together 2 or 3 2-channel systems in the $200-$250 range with gear from Denon-Marantz-Advent etc.

Your local CL is a good source and so are local thrift stores. This can be a bit of a challenge if you live in a small community but the Syracuse-Ithaca area should afford some opportunities.

LeRoy
01-11-2010, 06:25 PM
Reading through this thread and adding my 2 cents...

Yes, A4less is a reputable online retailer. I purchased my Mordaunt Short 902i speakers from them at $225./pr. Too bad they have sold out of them already.

One of our other community posters, Poppchubby, found the MS 902'i still selling new for $225.00/pr at http://www.needledoctor.com/. I am a huge advocate of this particular brand/model and highly suggest you consider the additional $25.00 over your speaker budget as well worth it. You may not want to upgrade your speakers again if you get this model....

Other speaker options depending on personal preference and budget.....

http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=49
There are a couple of options for your price point here.

I recently heard the Cambridge Audio S30 and I can highly recommend these speakers as well. I did not like the CA S70's or the CA electronics I heard but the S30's are quite exceptional and I think they are $220/pr. Also well worth it.

http://www.crutchfield.com/
Lots of speaker pair options at or about $200/pr.

Good luck with your research and your selections.

LeRoy

Mr Peabody
01-11-2010, 06:47 PM
How about this: http://www.spearitsound.com/nad/C715.asp

I like Paradigm but the Atoms don't play very low, I think only down to 100 Hz. The C715 does have a sub out for a future addition of subwoofer though.

IRG
01-11-2010, 06:48 PM
Reading through this thread and adding my 2 cents...

Yes, A4less is a reputable online retailer. I purchased my Mordaunt Short 902i speakers from them at $225./pr. Too bad they have sold out of them already.

One of our other community posters, Poppchubby, found the MS 902'i still selling new for $225.00/pr at http://www.needledoctor.com/. I am a huge advocate of this particular brand/model and highly suggest you consider the additional $25.00 over your speaker budget as well worth it. You may not want to upgrade your speakers again if you get this model....

Other speaker options depending on personal preference and budget.....

http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=49
There are a couple of options for your price point here.

I recently heard the Cambridge Audio S30 and I can highly recommend these speakers as well. I did not like the CA S70's or the CA electronics I heard but the S30's are quite exceptional and I think they are $220/pr. Also well worth it.

http://www.crutchfield.com/
Lots of speaker pair options at or about $200/pr.

Good luck with your research and your selections.

LeRoy

Thanks LeRoy, those Mordaunt Shorts look really nice, good price too, I've booked marked them for sure. I was checking out the CA 30's you mentioned, is that price per pair or single speaker? I wasn't sure, but at $220/pair, I would consider them too. Are the Polk Rti4 or TSi100's from Cruchfield pretty good speakers? Prices on both of these are good too.

IRG
01-11-2010, 06:52 PM
As the resident cheap bast@#rd I can tell that putting together a somewhat decent 2-channel set-up is possible with a little patience, a little luck and a little know-how. My tastes tend towards older gear and I have been fortunate to put together 2 or 3 2-channel systems in the $200-$250 range with gear from Denon-Marantz-Advent etc.

Your local CL is a good source and so are local thrift stores. This can be a bit of a challenge if you live in a small community but the Syracuse-Ithaca area should afford some opportunities.

I'm glad I'm not the only cheap b@astard :) I'll be checking out CL some more too. I was thinking of more vintage equipment, but not sure I trust the reliability of stuff that is 20-30+ years old, even if it was built better back then. But I do like some of it for sure, I just haven't had time to really research what is good and what should be avoided. Something to do soon.

IRG
01-11-2010, 06:55 PM
How about this: http://www.spearitsound.com/nad/C715.asp

I like Paradigm but the Atoms don't play very low, I think only down to 100 Hz. The C715 does have a sub out for a future addition of subwoofer though.


Yeah I think I want/need monitors that can go lower, without a sub. Maybe a sub someday, but not anytime soon. That NAD is interesting, although I think I can get a separate receiver/dvd/cd player for less, and give me a little more flexibility.

LeRoy
01-11-2010, 07:38 PM
Thanks LeRoy, those Mordaunt Shorts look really nice, good price too, I've booked marked them for sure. I was checking out the CA 30's you mentioned, is that price per pair or single speaker? I wasn't sure, but at $220/pair, I would consider them too. Are the Polk Rti4 or TSi100's from Cruchfield pretty good speakers? Prices on both of these are good too.

You're welcom IRG.

The CA 30's is priced per pair at A.A.

I used to own a pair of Polk Rti4's for a very short while....literally 2 weeks. I took them back to Tweeters for a full refund. Count me in as one of those who don't care for Polk speakers at all. I have never heard of TSI speakers so don't know anything about them

By the way, the CA 30's speaker are made by Mordaunt-Short for C.A. They don't sound the same though. The M.S. 902's are very dynamic, punchy, fun, lively, and musical. The 902's punked my Usher S-520's in a no contest kind of way.

The CA30's are more of a neutral sounding speaker...refined and composed even at higher volumes, punchy deep bass but bass does not extend as much as the 902's and the highs are extended as the 902's but not quite as energetic. CA 30's are a tad smaller than the 902's and are cute in a toy looking kind of way.

I used both speakers through my system and each can play up to that level of quality...no problem. Belles Soloist Amp/Belles Soloist Pre-Amp (Retail $2K), Musical Fidelity XRAY CDP and power supply (Retail $1.5K-2.5K), Chord Carnival Silver Screen Speaker wire 4-conductor ($185.00), Chord Cobra Interconnect ($115.00). Both speakers are quite at home with this set up.

Both are EXCELLENT buys and sound quite remarkable for so little money. Beware that both will expose your electronics too. If you pair them with poor sounding electronics both will let you know it. Even so, if you upgrade your electronics at a later date you won't have to upgrade your speakers if you have one of these pairs.

IRG
01-11-2010, 07:48 PM
You're welcom IRG.

The CA 30's is priced per pair at A.A.

I used to own a pair of Polk Rti4's for a very short while....literally 2 weeks. I took them back to Tweeters for a full refund. Count me in as one of those who don't care for Polk speakers at all. I have never heard of TSI speakers so don't know anything about them

By the way, the CA 30's speaker are made by Mordaunt-Short for C.A. They don't sound the same though. The M.S. 902's are very dynamic, punchy, fun, lively, and musical. The 902's punked my Usher S-520's in a no contest kind of way.

The CA30's are more of a neutral sounding speaker...refined and composed even at higher volumes, punchy deep bass but bass does not extend as much as the 902's and the highs are extended as the 902's but not quite as energetic. CA 30's are a tad smaller than the 902's and are cute in a toy looking kind of way.

I used both speakers through my system and each can play up to that level of quality...no problem. Belles Soloist Amp/Belles Soloist Pre-Amp (Retail $2K), Musical Fidelity XRAY CDP and power supply (Retail $1.5K-2.5K), Chord Carnival Silver Screen Speaker wire 4-conductor ($185.00), Chord Cobra Interconnect ($115.00). Both speakers are quite at home with this set up.

Both are EXCELLENT buys and sound quite remarkable for so little money. Beware that both will expose your electronics too. If you pair them with poor sounding electronics both will let you know it. Even so, if you upgrade your electronics at a later date you won't have to upgrade your speakers if you have one of these pairs.


OK, either of these two speakers sound like winners, leaning towards the MS model. So is pairing them with a Yamaha amp/dvd a 'poor sounding' electronics, or will they be acceptable? Would the Onkyo or Marantz (don't know much about this model) be a better choice, and if so why?

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 08:09 PM
Something to consider, if you put any stock in reviews...Stereophile said "its bass performance turned out to be one of the Atom's greatest strengths."

http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/664/

blackraven
01-11-2010, 08:26 PM
Something to consider, if you put any stock in reviews...Stereophile said "its bass performance turned out to be one of the Atom's greatest strengths."

http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/664/

Thats pure BS, I auditioned them at a local store that sells Paradigm and NHT. Even the salesman steered me away from the Atoms because of their lack of bass. The NHT Classic 2's blew them out of the water. The Atoms sounded weak and anemic. They need a sub.

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 08:54 PM
Thats pure BS, I auditioned them at a local store that sells Paradigm and NHT. Even the salesman steered me away from the Atoms because of their lack of bass. The NHT Classic 2's blew them out of the water. The Atoms sounded weak and anemic. They need a sub.

Did I say something to offend you?

blackraven
01-11-2010, 09:09 PM
Sorry Noob. I was just commenting on the Stereophile review.

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 09:18 PM
Just checking.

thekid
01-12-2010, 02:41 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only cheap b@astard :) I'll be checking out CL some more too. I was thinking of more vintage equipment, but not sure I trust the reliability of stuff that is 20-30+ years old, even if it was built better back then. But I do like some of it for sure, I just haven't had time to really research what is good and what should be avoided. Something to do soon.

Reliability can be a concern when talking about receivers and amps but a good testing of them before you buy can resolve that issue. Speakers on the other hand are a different issue as there is less to go wrong there. A look at the drivers with the grills off and a quick listen will usually tell you all you need to know there. All of my current speakers in the house came via CL or Thrift stores. A list includes the following that are used for my various 2 channel set-ups. All except the Polk's and the KLH-5's which were obtained through gear swaps ran me on average a little less than $25 a pair and were ready to plug and play.

Original Large Advents
Dynaco-A25
EPI-100's
KLH-5
KLH-17's
Polk Monitor 10's

IRG
01-12-2010, 04:04 AM
Reliability can be a concern when talking about receivers and amps but a good testing of them before you buy can resolve that issue. Speakers on the other hand are a different issue as there is less to go wrong there. A look at the drivers with the grills off and a quick listen will usually tell you all you need to know there. All of my current speakers in the house came via CL or Thrift stores. A list includes the following that are used for my various 2 channel set-ups. All except the Polk's and the KLH-5's which were obtained through gear swaps ran me on average a little less than $25 a pair and were ready to plug and play.

Original Large Advents
Dynaco-A25
EPI-100's
KLH-5
KLH-17's
Polk Monitor 10's

I totally agree, if I can try something out first, I wouldn't mind buying used, especially from the local shop that caters to this. Speakers in general, are less of a gamble. I was thinking ebay too, where the shipping and all can be hard on things like cd players/turntables.

Does it make any sense at all in trying to put new 6" speakers in the JBLs I have, or will that totally muck up the sound? It would be more of a stop gap, buy a new TT/CD player, get an amp, fix the speakers, then begin upgrading one thing or another when funds suffice.

But I like the idea of getting all new stuff better.:biggrin5:

Worf101
01-12-2010, 04:48 AM
Reliability can be a concern when talking about receivers and amps but a good testing of them before you buy can resolve that issue. Speakers on the other hand are a different issue as there is less to go wrong there. A look at the drivers with the grills off and a quick listen will usually tell you all you need to know there. All of my current speakers in the house came via CL or Thrift stores. A list includes the following that are used for my various 2 channel set-ups. All except the Polk's and the KLH-5's which were obtained through gear swaps ran me on average a little less than $25 a pair and were ready to plug and play.

Original Large Advents
Dynaco-A25
EPI-100's
KLH-5
KLH-17's
Polk Monitor 10's
The Keed is absolutely right. All the speakers in my house come from CL or the Bay. We've both some classic stuff. Every speaker currently in use in all three home systems are used or orphan. If you don't get swept up in bidding frenzy or other stupid mania you can score great speakers on the cheap, all over.

Worf

manlystanley
01-12-2010, 06:01 AM
The Keed is absolutely right. All the speakers in my house come from CL or the Bay. We've both some classic stuff. Every speaker currently in use in all three home systems are used or orphan. If you don't get swept up in bidding frenzy or other stupid mania you can score great speakers on the cheap, all over.

Worf


CL rules! I can hardly afford what I've got now, and the only new thing I've bought is my XPA-2 power amp.

Best Regards,
Stan

IRG
01-12-2010, 07:41 AM
CL rules! I can hardly afford what I've got now, and the only new thing I've bought is my XPA-2 power amp.

Best Regards,
Stan


Well I did a thorough scan of 3 close by CL listings, frankly didn't see one item I was interested in - I think part of it is this is not a very affluent region, you're not as likely to see nice used gear for sale, because people by and large don't buy it new, they'll shop the Walmart specials or invest in their ipods or computers, but I'll keep looking. Worth a shot!

bobsticks
01-12-2010, 08:37 AM
Receivers- Harmon Kardon 338o, 3480 http://www.gadgetreview.com/2009/12/harman-kardon-hk-3390-stereo-receiver-235-shipped.html
http://techronics.com/caraudio_1303_Harman-Kardon-HK3480-Component-Stereo-Receiver.html?aff=72182

Onkyo Tx 8522- http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8522-Watt-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B000GHDPHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263235283&sr=8-1

Cd Player Marantz cd5003 http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2&products_id=9755&osCsid=5c33cdcf60a2f50af5868e16b3762776

Speakers- Energy C-300's

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300


Check out www.saturdayaudio.com Look at their demo gear for sale. They have an Onkyo Integra 7.1ch receiver for $299, list was $800. They also have some Denon DVD players on sale. The Denon DVD players make for a decent CD player.

Lotta good suggestions from all over but Blackie boils it down to the basics. Of course, looking for used items or N/OS may leave you knocking at fate's door...

Something to keep in mind, those original Insignia speakers that caused all the stir were the product of a single, initial shipment of KEF drivers...a shipment that has never reoccured. There was quite a commotion over at AGon about it as, after the first series sold out, the quality declined drastically.

Speaking of KEF, I'm probably the resident KEF shill...got a pair of Q7's that I use in a secondary system with an Onkyo receiver, a PC and an old Pioneer PDM423 that has uncharacteristically good DACs.

I don't think you can go wrong with either an Onkyo or Yamaha receiver. Marantz is excellent but even the vintage units will be budget-breakers.

Good luck and happy hunting...

02audionoob
01-12-2010, 09:48 AM
Just feel like tossing the Klipsch RB series into the mix...

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=klipsch+rb+61&_sacat=See-All-Categories

IRG
01-12-2010, 10:29 AM
OK, quick update, and than you for all the suggestions, keep em coming!

Here are my thoughts at the moment, liable to change at any time of course;

Amp:
Yamaha RX-397 (2 channel receiver, no HT) 50wpc, like the simplicity of it, gets great user reviews everywhere, likely very reliable. best price of $182 $20s/h from brandnamez.com

Runner up: Onkyo TX-8555 more power, not really needed, reviews are quite as good, about $255.

CD Source: Yamaha DVD-S1800 new at Amazon for $79. Was $400ish 3 years ago. Sounds like a good player for music too, and the dvd might come in handy at some point.

To note, finding "budget" dedicated cd players is almost impossible new, I've found. Sony makes a 5 disc unit, gets horrible reviews. Otherwise, budget is $300 for NAD or more. So, a $79 unit that is also a dvd player, but gets great reviews, seems like a good move for now.

Turntable: Denon DP-300F, $195 new at Dakmart. No other contenders at $200 or less I don't think.

Speakers: This is the most open part, so far. The contenders so far:

Mordaunt Short 902i, $225 from Needledoctor.com
Cambridge Audio C30 (made by Mordaunt Short) $205 incl s/h from Brandnamez.com, or $225 from Audioadvisor.com (not sure if s/h is included, probably not)
Polk Tsi100 $199 from Crutchfield, others.
PSB Image B15 $250 from audioadvisor
Paradigm Atoms, other?
Edit, I forgot the Energy C300s, floorstanders, but they seem like a great value. I owned a pair of Energy monitors before, C30s maybe?, and they were very good.

So I see this cost around $700+ right now, not including cables (is mtrycrafts here anymore? :) or speaker stands. I do have a good audio cabinet already.

Anyother speaker suggestions? I'd rather not pair them with a subwoofer either. Thanks so much for all the good suggestions/ideas. This also doesn't take into account the 2 local shops I have yet to visit. Who knows what I'll find there, and if possible, I would rather buy local.

IRG
01-12-2010, 11:44 AM
Lotta good suggestions from all over but Blackie boils it down to the basics. Of course, looking for used items or N/OS may leave you knocking at fate's door...

Something to keep in mind, those original Insignia speakers that caused all the stir were the product of a single, initial shipment of KEF drivers...a shipment that has never reoccured. There was quite a commotion over at AGon about it as, after the first series sold out, the quality declined drastically.

Speaking of KEF, I'm probably the resident KEF shill...got a pair of Q7's that I use in a secondary system with an Onkyo receiver, a PC and an old Pioneer PDM423 that has uncharacteristically good DACs.

I don't think you can go wrong with either an Onkyo or Yamaha receiver. Marantz is excellent but even the vintage units will be budget-breakers.

Good luck and happy hunting...

Good to know on the Insignias, I thought it might be too good to be true. As far as Kef goes, how are the Cresta 2? I saw them for sale somewhere, good price. Older pair aren't they, or are they still being made? Anything by Kef in the under $300 range I can look at?

IRG
01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Talked to the local shop, wasn't thrilled with their recommendations, but worth a look I guess. But I think i can get better, and cheaper, by shopping online, even if i would prefer not doing so. Going to keep looking for some budget buys...

blackraven
01-12-2010, 02:49 PM
I would jump on these NHT Classic 2's from audiogon.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266790401&/NHT-Classic-Two

Nice warm sounding speaker with excellent midbass.

And here's a pair of PSB B-25's, a much better speaker than the B-15's for bass
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266605291&/PSB-Image



Or these Vintage B&W's- http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266568023&/Bowers---Wilkins-DM-1400

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266183243&/B-W-610i

philhh
01-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Have you considered a speaker kit from Parts Express or Madisound? They seem to offer quite a bang for the buck and look fairly easy to put together. I'm considering the Dayton UA701 Usher 701 for my first project to learn. It seems hard to beat the drivers in the sub $300 range.

Having said this, the Axiom M3v2 seems interesting for $330/pair.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3.html

Short of that, ebay or audiogon for used equipment. I've bought and sold on audiogon with excellent results. There are lots of people looking to upgrade, so there's always gear to be purchased!

IRG
01-12-2010, 04:08 PM
I would jump on these NHT Classic 2's from audiogon.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266790401&/NHT-Classic-Two

Nice warm sounding speaker with excellent midbass.

And here's a pair of PSB B-25's, a much better speaker than the B-15's for bass
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266605291&/PSB-Image



Or these Vintage B&W's- http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266568023&/Bowers---Wilkins-DM-1400

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1266183243&/B-W-610i

Thanks for those links, is the NHT priced per pair? If so, that is good. The older B&W's look good too, I'm not very familiar with those models, I'll have to do some research on them.

IRG
01-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Have you considered a speaker kit from Parts Express or Madisound? They seem to offer quite a bang for the buck and look fairly easy to put together. I'm considering the Dayton UA701 Usher 701 for my first project to learn. It seems hard to beat the drivers in the sub $300 range.

Having said this, the Axiom M3v2 seems interesting for $330/pair.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3.html

Short of that, ebay or audiogon for used equipment. I've bought and sold on audiogon with excellent results. There are lots of people looking to upgrade, so there's always gear to be purchased!

I was thinking about a kit too, funny you should mention it. Not sure about whether I want to go that route or not, but I'll have to look at this idea again.

The Axioms have been around a while, I think they're well liked, they seem to advertise quite a bit. Not sure I want to spend the $ on them though.

IRG
01-12-2010, 04:25 PM
Anyone have comments on these Polks? http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-Monitor-40-Cherry-Bookshelf-speakers-Polk-Audio_W0QQitemZ230423480703QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpea kers_Subwoofers?hash=item35a64f497f

Really inexpensive, so I wonder how good they are, seems like Polk isn't as well liked by some, although I think they often get reviewed quite well (of course, most stuff does so...)

Just curious about this Monitor line, older I think.

I would also like to know more about the TSi100, found here, http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Polk-Audio-TSi100-Bookshelf-Speakers-BLACK-Pair_W0QQitemZ180447818357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeak ers_Subwoofers?hash=item2a03873275

or other placed for about $200, gets good consumer reviews, fwiw.

02audionoob
01-12-2010, 05:51 PM
The Monitor 40 appears to be cheaper at Newegg.com...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290010&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Polk+Audio-_-82290010

IRG
01-12-2010, 06:13 PM
The Monitor 40 appears to be cheaper at Newegg.com...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290010&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Polk+Audio-_-82290010

Wow, $129 for the pair, granted they're older models, but I am tempted to give them a try. The reviews are quite good. Thanks for the link, hmmmm

IRG
01-12-2010, 07:51 PM
I see Crutchfield has the black Boston Acoustic CS 26 for $75 each. How are these speakers overall? WIth a larger cone than some of the others, bass might be a tad better. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_065CS26B/Boston-Acoustics-CS-26-Black.html

Reviews online seem positive, moreso than the Polks.

blackraven
01-12-2010, 08:14 PM
I would scoop these Energy C-200's up in a hurry- http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76742

I like the sound of the Bostons you mentioned too.

IRG
01-12-2010, 08:20 PM
I would scoop these Energy C-200's up in a hurry- http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76742

I like the sound of the Bostons you mentioned too.


Looks like they're sold. Gott hit the sack now...

Mr Peabody
01-12-2010, 08:53 PM
FWIW, I put together a small system for my girl, we were looking for a inexpensive 5 disc changer, I went to a store that sold Yamaha, Denon & Onkyo and listened to an offering by all three. The Denon and Onkyo were similar but the Yamaha exhibited much nicer sound in the mids and highs with natural and lush sounding strings were the other two were a bit hard in that area.. The Denon & Onkyo were better in the bass detail area. I was impressed with the Yamaha for a mere $149.00. Oh, the Yamaha is the one I bought.

Mr Peabody
01-12-2010, 08:57 PM
You know it might be interesting to say what that system ended up being, the Yamaha changer, a Sansui AU-9500 integrated (vintage) and a pair of Dynaudio Audience 40's.
Yaamie = $149.00
Sansui = $20.00 (killer find) The 9500 is sort of a classic sought after piece, excellent
The 40's = $300.00 , used, splurged a bit here but I doubt anything for $300.00 would even come close.

harley .guy07
01-12-2010, 10:07 PM
Have you considered a speaker kit from Parts Express or Madisound? They seem to offer quite a bang for the buck and look fairly easy to put together. I'm considering the Dayton UA701 Usher 701 for my first project to learn. It seems hard to beat the drivers in the sub $300 range.


Nice to see someone else that like DIY speakers and sees how sometimes how much more you get for your money that way. I believe the Dayton tritrix speaker kits are very well reviewed for the money but they require putting the cabinets together and either being painted or veneered. Now one of the Dayton bookshelf speaker kits using the Dayton drivers might be able to be an affordable option for him and they are basically just installing the pre made crossovers and drivers and breaking them in. He might be very happy with one of the Dayton kits from Parts Express. I have heard some really good things about their kits. And I have thought about the Usher 701 kit as an option for me a few times but I haven't done it yet, other things to do right now.

IRG
01-13-2010, 06:23 AM
Nice to see someone else that like DIY speakers and sees how sometimes how much more you get for your money that way. I believe the Dayton tritrix speaker kits are very well reviewed for the money but they require putting the cabinets together and either being painted or veneered. Now one of the Dayton bookshelf speaker kits using the Dayton drivers might be able to be an affordable option for him and they are basically just installing the pre made crossovers and drivers and breaking them in. He might be very happy with one of the Dayton kits from Parts Express. I have heard some really good things about their kits. And I have thought about the Usher 701 kit as an option for me a few times but I haven't done it yet, other things to do right now.


The Usher kit looks very interesting. I don't think the total package is out yet, but I would like to give that a try. For now though, I think I'll go reay made. But a definite possibility in the future for sure.

IRG
01-13-2010, 06:29 AM
You know it might be interesting to say what that system ended up being, the Yamaha changer, a Sansui AU-9500 integrated (vintage) and a pair of Dynaudio Audience 40's.
Yaamie = $149.00
Sansui = $20.00 (killer find) The 9500 is sort of a classic sought after piece, excellent
The 40's = $300.00 , used, splurged a bit here but I doubt anything for $300.00 would even come close.


That looks like a good system there. The Dynaudios are very well regarded I recall. $300 seems really cheap.

I'm glad to hear you liked the Yamaha cd player. Audio wise, how do you think this Yamaha dvd player stacks up? http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558368&CTID=5001800&ATRID=1000&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

Seems like a good unit, and the price now, is hard to beat.

bobsticks
01-13-2010, 06:50 AM
Anything by Kef in the under $300 range I can look at?

If you don't mind going used one can almost always find anything from extreme vintage to one-owner KEF's. They seem to be in higher favor in Europe which keeps prices low here in the U.S.. Par example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Kef-Reference-Series-103-3-103-3-Speakers_W0QQitemZ130358406261QQcmdZViewItemQQptZS peakers_Subwoofers?hash=item1e59f76c75

http://cgi.ebay.com/KEF-Iq30-Two-Way-6-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair_W0QQitemZ120514989186QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeak ers_Subwoofers?hash=item1c0f40cc82

IRG
01-13-2010, 08:21 AM
If you don't mind going used one can almost always find anything from extreme vintage to one-owner KEF's. They seem to be in higher favor in Europe which keeps prices low here in the U.S.. Par example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Kef-Reference-Series-103-3-103-3-Speakers_W0QQitemZ130358406261QQcmdZViewItemQQptZS peakers_Subwoofers?hash=item1e59f76c75

http://cgi.ebay.com/KEF-Iq30-Two-Way-6-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair_W0QQitemZ120514989186QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeak ers_Subwoofers?hash=item1c0f40cc82

I looked at that first speaker last night on ebay, didn't know much about it though. The other one looks nice too, more $ than I want at the moment.

IRG
01-13-2010, 11:50 AM
A quick rundown of the speakers (new only here) I'm looking at, in order of lowest price first. Any comments on them, or the vendors is welcome:

Polk Audio Monitor 40s $129/pair at newegg.com
Boston Acoustic CS-26 (black) $149/pr at Crutchfield
Kef C3 $179 at accessories4less.com
Cambridge Audio S30 $186/pair, brandnamez.com
Polk Tsi100 Crutchfield
Modaunt Short 902i $225 at Needledoctor.com

IRG
01-13-2010, 04:43 PM
I think I'm leaning now towards the Onkyo TX-8555 over the Yamaha now. About the same price from AC4less, and it has twice the power, and a sub out, in case I decide to add it. I owned an older Onkyo way back, and it was a great unit.

LeRoy
01-13-2010, 05:11 PM
OK, either of these two speakers sound like winners, leaning towards the MS model. So is pairing them with a Yamaha amp/dvd a 'poor sounding' electronics, or will they be acceptable? Would the Onkyo or Marantz (don't know much about this model) be a better choice, and if so why?

Sorry for the delayed reply. Too much work lately...

I would suggest the Marantz or Yamaha with strong leanings toward the Marantz. You might find the pairing with the Yamaha to be too bright...but we all have a different benchmark at to what bright is. I feel the Marantz has better tonality overall and leans a little to the warm side of neutral. So, it depends on what you like.

The M.S. 902's still remain my main speaker in my system. Consider that I recently, like 23DEC, have had the Mordaunt-Short Aviano 2 bookshelf speakers in my system as I thought the new editions would simply be bigger and better 902i. That has turned out not to be the case. The AV2's do have a couple of qualities that the 902's don't have but the bottom line is when I listen to music through the 902i.....I am quickly/immediately engaged in the music. This is not something that happens to me when I am listening to the AV2's unless the recording is an absolute reference recording. Recalling my experience in listening to the CA S30's...I think the S30's are more fun than the AV2's but not at the same level as the 902's...

An interesting impression I got while listening to the 902's in my audio dealer's home is that if you place them just right...they can deliver sound very similar to a small floorstander. I don't get this floorstander largeness of sound in my listening space but that just goes to show me how room and placement can affect the sound quality and enjoyment. Either way, the 902's are a slam dunk.

Mr Peabody
01-13-2010, 06:32 PM
I've never heard a Yamaha DVD for music but my guess is the same emphasis for sound would not be there. I thought you got a Marantz player already. You should stick with that.

IRG
01-13-2010, 06:47 PM
I've never heard a Yamaha DVD for music but my guess is the same emphasis for sound would not be there. I thought you got a Marantz player already. You should stick with that.

No I don't have any player at the moment for this system. I have an old Technics 5 disc player but it's for the upstairs system.

There were some comments I think on Cnet from an owner(s) who also used the Yamaha S1800 for music, and said the DACs in this unit were very good, one of its strengths. I'll see what else I can find. I kinda find info on Marantz gear or good online dealers, sort of hard to come by.

Mr Peabody
01-13-2010, 07:13 PM
www,amusicdirect.com used to carry a lot of Marantz. You were probably talking about a local shop though. The Yamaha DVD player may be fine though. If it meets your needs give it a listen. What ever pieces you go with you might want to stick with the ones that will accept a return and with no restock fee, in case you get something you just can't live with.

IRG
01-13-2010, 07:23 PM
www,amusicdirect.com used to carry a lot of Marantz. You were probably talking about a local shop though. The Yamaha DVD player may be fine though. If it meets your needs give it a listen. What ever pieces you go with you might want to stick with the ones that will accept a return and with no restock fee, in case you get something you just can't live with.

Well now, the Marantz gear does look pretty good, a definite step up from the Yamaha or Onkyo stuff. I like this receiver here" http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-SR4023-80w-x-2ch-CI-Friendly-Stereo-Receiver_W0QQitemZ120517429786QQcmdZViewItemQQptZR eceivers_Tuners?hash=item1c0f660a1a

It's stretching the budget though. Tempting it is...

02audionoob
01-13-2010, 07:37 PM
Well now, the Marantz gear does look pretty good, a definite step up from the Yamaha or Onkyo stuff. I like this receiver here" http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-SR4023-80w-x-2ch-CI-Friendly-Stereo-Receiver_W0QQitemZ120517429786QQcmdZViewItemQQptZR eceivers_Tuners?hash=item1c0f660a1a

It's stretching the budget though. Tempting it is...

You could have had a Marantz SR4021 for $219 from accessories4less if you had jumped on it when I linked to it in post #23 of this thread...:p

IRG
01-13-2010, 07:49 PM
You could have had a Marantz SR4021 for $219 from accessories4less if you had jumped on it when I linked to it in post #23 of this thread...:p

I thought about it. Probably not an issue, but the frequency range was 40hz-20khz, and I dunno, something about a receiver that doesn't do 20 -20 bothered me, but not like any of these speakers I'm looking at would be affected. The newer version addresses this apparently. O think ac4less has the 4023 for $299. Not bad either.

Mr Peabody
01-13-2010, 08:41 PM
The 4023 does have a phono stage, but the Denon will have one built in too, and a sub out. I wonder how much of the cost went to the video switching and home automation features that wouldn't be used.

blackraven
01-13-2010, 10:03 PM
I heard that Yamaha 1800 for music and it sounded pretty good. It compared well with the Denon 1910 that I have which is a pretty good cd player as well as a dvd player. For $75 its a great buy for a budget system.

I would still consider the HK receiver over the Onkyo. Its got preamp, phono preamp and sub outs. It also puts out high current with I believe 45 peak amps. It tends to have a slightly warmer sound which IMO would be better for budget speakers which tend to be bright. But either way you go you will have a decent 2ch receiver. And I agree that a receiver should be rated at least 20-20.

Good Luck!

IRG
01-14-2010, 04:12 AM
I heard that Yamaha 1800 for music and it sounded pretty good. It compared well with the Denon 1910 that I have which is a pretty good cd player as well as a dvd player. For $75 its a great buy for a budget system.

I would still consider the HK receiver over the Onkyo. Its got preamp, phono preamp and sub outs. It also puts out high current with I believe 45 peak amps. It tends to have a slightly warmer sound which IMO would be better for budget speakers which tend to be bright. But either way you go you will have a decent 2ch receiver. And I agree that a receiver should be rated at least 20-20.

Good Luck!

Thanks man, appreciate the input again. Glad to hear the Yamaha sounds good. The Onkyo has a Phono input and sub output too, and I think pre amps as well, check out this photo to see if I'm wrong: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=580TX8555&tp=179

I trust the Onkyo to be more reliable than the HK, old prejudices perhaps. My goal would be to upgrade to a better integrated amp in a couplle of years. I had a Roksan Kandy integrated amp and cd player some time ago. Nice stuff, but frankly I didn't think it was worth the price of what they cost new (I got it used on Audiogon). So the budget stuff I'm looking at now, will suffice for a while. And ANYTHING is better than what I have now, I gotta remember that.

So I've down this system I think, to everything but the speakers. The Mordaunt Short 902 seem classy, the Polk Monitor 40 are a great buy, the Boston Acoustics seem good too, it will probably be a gamble to see what works best. The advantage of a more familiar name brand like the Polk or BA is that I could flip it quickly on CL.

I have some boutique guitar gear I'm trying to sell that isn't that well known, and it's hard to sell. So the Mordaunt Short could be at a disadvantage here, but they seem more "audiophile" than the other contenders here, so they're high on my list too. I gotta try and see what's available locally on Friday.

IRG
01-14-2010, 04:39 AM
And on the receiver front, if I splurge for something a tad nicer, it would probably be the Marantz SR4023, nice features, specs, I saw it somewhere on the net, probably ac4less for $299. So maybe that one, maybe.

LeRoy
01-14-2010, 05:43 AM
Thanks man, appreciate the input again. Glad to hear the Yamaha sounds good. The Onkyo has a Phono input and sub output too, and I think pre amps as well, check out this photo to see if I'm wrong: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=580TX8555&tp=179

I trust the Onkyo to be more reliable than the HK, old prejudices perhaps. My goal would be to upgrade to a better integrated amp in a couplle of years. I had a Roksan Kandy integrated amp and cd player some time ago. Nice stuff, but frankly I didn't think it was worth the price of what they cost new (I got it used on Audiogon). So the budget stuff I'm looking at now, will suffice for a while. And ANYTHING is better than what I have now, I gotta remember that.

So I've down this system I think, to everything but the speakers. The Mordaunt Short 902 seem classy, the Polk Monitor 40 are a great buy, the Boston Acoustics seem good too, it will probably be a gamble to see what works best. The advantage of a more familiar name brand like the Polk or BA is that I could flip it quickly on CL.

I have some boutique guitar gear I'm trying to sell that isn't that well known, and it's hard to sell. So the Mordaunt Short could be at a disadvantage here, but they seem more "audiophile" than the other contenders here, so they're high on my list too. I gotta try and see what's available locally on Friday.


http://www.mordauntshort.com/reviews.php

IRG
01-14-2010, 06:49 AM
http://www.mordauntshort.com/reviews.php

Thanks man, I appreciate that. I think these are the ones for me. I should order soon, while they're still around. I'll have to make some story for the missus soon though :wink5:

frenchmon
01-14-2010, 10:07 AM
Thats pure BS, I auditioned them at a local store that sells Paradigm and NHT. Even the salesman steered me away from the Atoms because of their lack of bass. The NHT Classic 2's blew them out of the water. The Atoms sounded weak and anemic. They need a sub.

Raven...I see the stereophile review was in 2002 which may mean they where a earlier version, where the ones you auditioned the same model year as the ones in the review?

frenchmon

blackraven
01-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Frenchmon, the Atoms I listened too were newer. It was about 2yrs ago. I was with an audio buddy and he thought the same thing, very weak and tinny.

frenchmon
01-14-2010, 11:15 AM
Ok thanks. I listened to the new studio 60's and was not impressed. I'm sure it was the room they where in. Not set up in a good two channel configuration. But I do love my Paradigm monitor 7's V3. They are much better and bigger than the new line of 7's they have out now.

fremchmon

blackraven
01-14-2010, 03:39 PM
Frenchie, I liked the Studio 100's and the Signature series. They sounded great player through a 60wpc Jolida tube integrated amp. But for that money I would rather have the PSB Synchrony's.

LeRoy
01-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Thanks man, I appreciate that. I think these are the ones for me. I should order soon, while they're still around. I'll have to make some story for the missus soon though :wink5:

I know you will enjoy listening to them.

LeRoy

IRG
01-15-2010, 03:54 AM
I don't know anything about these speakers, but they're good looking. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1268686120

IRG
01-15-2010, 04:28 AM
So a quick question about the "tones" of these various receivers, is this a fair assumption:

Yamaha - neutral to bright sounding.
Onkyo - fairly neutral overall
Marantz - warming sounding, less bright than the Yamaha

I'm not sure there is much difference at al in the sound of these budget receivers, but if there are, does one of their sonic signatures work better with the Mordaunt-Short 902s?

blackraven
01-15-2010, 10:34 AM
I would always recommend going with the warmer sounding unit.

philhh
01-15-2010, 12:12 PM
So a quick question about the "tones" of these various receivers, is this a fair assumption:

Yamaha - neutral to bright sounding.
Onkyo - fairly neutral overall
Marantz - warming sounding, less bright than the Yamaha

I'm not sure there is much difference at al in the sound of these budget receivers, but if there are, does one of their sonic signatures work better with the Mordaunt-Short 902s?

I'd second Blackraven to vote for a warmer sounding unit. I've always seemed to instinctively reduce the amount of time spent listening to a bright sounding system.

I'd be curious if anyone has any soundstage opinions regarding these? I'm thinking of putting together a similar setup fo my kids, and they love to be able to hear the instruments in their various places...

IRG
01-15-2010, 12:37 PM
I would always recommend going with the warmer sounding unit.

I would too, all things considering. So I went to one local shop today, didn't stay long, just wanted to see what they had in stock (Paradigm dealer). The Atoms now cost $329. They did have a pair of Boston Acoustics CS-26, not bad looking either, $200. I'll have to do some demoing soon. They carry the Marantz/Denon/Boston Acoustics brands, all owned by DVM now I guess. The Marantz 4023 wasn't out on the shelf yet, but I may take a closer look.The Sherwood stuff looked cheap, Denon ok. The Denon turntable looks nice. They also sell Definitive Technology speakers.

I can get all of the stuff cheaper online though, plus no tax. I would like to support the local guy though, we'll see.

mcbr1
01-15-2010, 01:05 PM
So a quick question about the "tones" of these various receivers, is this a fair assumption:

Yamaha - neutral to bright sounding.
Onkyo - fairly neutral overall
Marantz - warming sounding, less bright than the Yamaha

I'm not sure there is much difference at al in the sound of these budget receivers, but if there are, does one of their sonic signatures work better with the Mordaunt-Short 902s?
Where do Denon and H/K fit in this scale?

IRG
01-15-2010, 01:50 PM
Where does Denon and H/K fit in this scale?

Others probably know more than me, but just based on reviews, the Denon's audio quality seems to be mid-pack, nothing wrong with it, nothing spectacular either, although at this price point, probaby nothing will be. The HK seems to have a loyal following, and would seem to rank it closer to the Marantz. I wonder though, with one company owning both Denon and Marantz, how different they might be.

The Marantz equipment looks and feels a step ahead, the Onkyo stuff is pretty decent too. I don't really like the layout of the H/K, everything is sort of hidden behind a screen. I like turning knobs like what the Onkyo or Yamaha has, they just have a nice feel about them. Instead of different menus and what not.

But at $500 and under, I'm not sure sonically, how really different any of these receivers can be from one another. I don't expect them to be the same, but i would think the differences would be fairly subtle.

To me, it comes down to ease of use, look/feel of controls, reliability and price. They all have phono inputs (not sure the HK does), 50 - 100 watts, spec wise pretty close.

I can get online the Onkyo for $199, the Marantz for $299, those are my two leading contenders. The Yamaha isn't bad either, but it doesn't have a sub out that I think now might not be bad to have. The mid range Yamaha does have it though.

frenchmon
01-15-2010, 02:38 PM
Hey if I where you I'd snatch one of these up asap. They may not be there in a few hours. and Im sure they wont be there flonger than 2 days.

The Wharfdale Diamonds are only $155.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1268773932&/Wharfedale-Diamond-9.1

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/8781/12635886244748077.jpg (http://img686.imageshack.us/i/12635886244748077.jpg/)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2653/12635886264819517.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/12635886264819517.jpg/)

These PSB are only $185

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2558/12635895994985316.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/12635895994985316.jpg/)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4244/12635896005022750.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/12635896005022750.jpg/)


frenchmon

IRG
01-15-2010, 03:04 PM
How are these Wharfedales, nice price on these at audiogon: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1268686120

IRG
01-15-2010, 03:07 PM
Wow, we posted the same link. Good speakers then?

I don't like that he doesn't take paypal. No feedback either.

frenchmon
01-15-2010, 04:03 PM
I just sent him a email asking why not paypal.

If you can score the 9.1's you should be set for a while. Though I've never heard them...I think LeRoy has and I trust his judgement. The price is right....I think the 9.1's where discontinued in 2008.

frenchmon

LeRoy
01-15-2010, 04:11 PM
Wow, we posted the same link. Good speakers then?



I don't like that he doesn't take paypal. No feedback either.

I have owned the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's, Usher S-520's,KEF IQ3's, Nola Mini's, Energy Connoisseur C-1's, PSB 1B, and Polk RTi-4. I would not buy any of these again.

If you find the price of the M.S. 902's to be too much then you may want to re-direct to the Cambridge Audio S-30's. Even the CA 30's are more musical than the list of speakers above that have now been kicked off my music island.

With the 902's or the CA 30's, I would recommend the Marantz and then the Yamaha. I have not heard Onkyo gear much so I have no opinion of them.

Hope this info helps you out.

LeRoy

IRG
01-15-2010, 04:11 PM
I just sent him a email asking why not paypal.

If you can score the 9.1's you should be set for a while. Though I've never heard them...I think LeRoy has and I trust his judgement. The price is right....I think the 9.1's where discontinued in 2008.

frenchmon

I emailed him too. Not taking pp is a dealbreaker for me.

LeRoy
01-15-2010, 04:15 PM
I just sent him a email asking why not paypal.

If you can score the 9.1's you should be set for a while. Though I've never heard them...I think LeRoy has and I trust his judgement. The price is right....I think the 9.1's where discontinued in 2008.

frenchmon

Yes, they were discontinued in 2008 and now Wharfedale has the 10.1's to replace the 9.1's. I think What Hi-Fi gave the 10.1s the product of the year award.

IRG
01-15-2010, 04:16 PM
I have owned the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's, Usher S-520's,KEF IQ3's, Nola Mini's, Energy Connoisseur C-1's, PSB 1B, and Polk RTi-4. I would not buy any of these again.

If you find the price of the M.S. 902's to be too much then you may want to re-direct to the Cambridge Audio S-30's. Even the CA 30's are more musical than the list of speakers above that have now been kicked off my music island.

With the 902's or the CA0's, I would recommend the Marantz and then the Yamaha. I have not heard Onkyo gear much so I have no opinion of them.

Hope this info helps you out.

LeRoy

Thanks LeRoy, I am still considering the MS, and maybe the Cambridge AUdio too.

I'm kinda torn with perhaps for now, going with a cheaper speaker, but (slightly) better amp. So maybe get the Marantz receiver, and the Boston Acoustics CS-26, and then upgrade the speakers later on, but the amp should suffice for a while. And with the Marantz, I could add a power amp, and use the receiver as a pre amp I suppose.

Or does it make sense to get (again, slightly) better speakers now, and a cheaper amp. I guess I'm not talking big bucks either way, but every dollar makes a difference this time. My new years resolution is to pay things in cash (if at all possible). Too easy to charge stuff.

IRG
01-15-2010, 04:20 PM
LeRoy,

Do the CA30's have grill covers? THey look nice without them, but I have a certain 4 year old that has pushed in the cones on my Paradigms, and I can see her doing that with these in a heartbeat. Little rascal.

Also, what size stands should I use with the CA30s? They're pretty small, 24-26" I woud assume.

LeRoy
01-15-2010, 04:42 PM
LeRoy,

Do the CA30's have grill covers? THey look nice without them, but I have a certain 4 year old that has pushed in the cones on my Paradigms, and I can see her doing that with these in a heartbeat. Little rascal.

Also, what size stands should I use with the CA30s? They're pretty small, 24-26" I woud assume.

And 26" stands would be good as I think 24's stands are a little low but that might be what you prefer. I have my speakers on Atacama stands and they are 39" tall.

That's a pretty good New Year's resolution you got going on....well, I have not heard any B.A. speakers in years so I don't know what their signature sound is so I can't offer any help with that. With regard to the order of purchase and most impact on the system sound...I've recently discovered how large an impact the "source" has on the overall system. I can't recall if you already have a CDP.

I discovered when I hooked up my NAD 545 CDP to the Rega Brio 3 and the M.S. 902's the system sounded so drab/dead. I then disconnected the 545 and plugged in the Musical Fidelity and the system came alive again.

No way around it....you could get great speakers like the 902's and never get their best if the source is just so-so. With lesser speakers it may not matter since they may not be able to deliver what the 902's can and therefore you may not be missing what they can't bring to the table anyway. You just gotta find what you can live with and be happy with and save some $$ along the way.

IRG
01-15-2010, 05:03 PM
And 26" stands would be good as I think 24's stands are a little low but that might be what you prefer. I have my speakers on Atacama stands and they are 39" tall.

That's a pretty good New Year's resolution you got going on....well, I have not heard any B.A. speakers in years so I don't know what their signature sound is so I can't offer any help with that. With regard to the order of purchase and most impact on the system sound...I've recently discovered how large an impact the "source" has on the overall system. I can't recall if you already have a CDP.

I discovered when I hooked up my NAD 545 CDP to the Rega Brio 3 and the M.S. 902's the system sounded so drab/dead. I then disconnected the 545 and plugged in the Musical Fidelity and the system came alive again.

No way around it....you could get great speakers like the 902's and never get their best if the source is just so-so. With lesser speakers it may not matter since they may not be able to deliver what the 902's can and therefore you may not be missing what they can't bring to the table anyway. You just gotta find what you can live with and be happy with and save some $$ along the way.


Good insights as always. I do not have yet, a dedicated cd player, or turntable. I'm probably going to get the Denon DP-300F table, and then upgrade the cartridge at some point. Going back to vinyl will be different, but fun. I just discovered a local book shop that has a huge vinyl store within it. Big resurgence in vinyl in this quirky town I live in. Haven't decided on a cd player, a good one will have to wait. I'm thinking of that Yamaha DVD S1800 that is supposed to have a pretty good audio section to it. Was $450, Amazon has it for $79, gets good reviews (even for audio).

That's one of the pains with buying everything at once, is that you don't know what your system synergy will be until you have it all together. But I gotta start somewhere.

frenchmon
01-15-2010, 05:15 PM
LeRoy how would you describe the Wharfdales? It seems the 902's is a giant killer.

frenchmon.

LeRoy
01-15-2010, 07:23 PM
Good insights as always. I do not have yet, a dedicated cd player, or turntable. I'm probably going to get the Denon DP-300F table, and then upgrade the cartridge at some point. Going back to vinyl will be different, but fun. I just discovered a local book shop that has a huge vinyl store within it. Big resurgence in vinyl in this quirky town I live in. Haven't decided on a cd player, a good one will have to wait. I'm thinking of that Yamaha DVD S1800 that is supposed to have a pretty good audio section to it. Was $450, Amazon has it for $79, gets good reviews (even for audio).

That's one of the pains with buying everything at once, is that you don't know what your system synergy will be until you have it all together. But I gotta start somewhere.

It was the entry level player and I don't recall the model number. It had good tonality overall and was a snap to set up. I had it hooked up to a Denon HT receiver and the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's and also spent time with the Usher S-520's. If you pick up the Yamaha at $79.00 that's pretty darn good. If you stick with a Yamaha system, CDP and amplification.....then I would suggest paring it up with the CA S-30's. If you go with Marantz then go with the Mordaunt's....of course....that's easy for me to type but I know it's hard to consider without first listening to the set up.

Are you having fun on the forum yet? ha-ha

LeRoy

LeRoy
01-15-2010, 07:40 PM
LeRoy how would you describe the Wharfdales? It seems the 902's is a giant killer.

frenchmon.

Initially, I really loved these speakers. But they only sounded great with the Denon HT receiver. They really did not mesh at all with the Rega as they got really bright when I cranked up the volume. I did not think they were bright when they were paired with the Denon. The 9.1's do have a great tweeter and pretty good mid range. The bass has that "hump" to make them sound deeper but I still enjoyed the bogus bass from these tiny tots. In my opinion the 9.1's most striking accomplishment was decay. The decay of the notes and voices is fantastic through this speaker.

I did not keep them because I got rid of the Denon as the Denon would clip with bass heavy music. Either way, the 9.1's can't touch the M.S. 902's.

The 902's, IMHO, are unheralded classics. Just quickly going through a fast recall of speaker brands that I prefer more than the M.S.....Reference 3A, some Martin Logan models, most of the Dynaudio, and the B&W Nautilus series of speakers.

IRG
01-16-2010, 05:15 AM
LeRoy, I assume the 902i's are rear ported, are the biwireable too? I can't find anything on this. Even the MS site doesn't mention it. I did read the WhatHiFi review, very nice review at that. And they beat out the Wharefdale 9.1 that were mentioned in an earlier thread, but the reviews on the 9.1 seem good too, they said it came down to price, the 902 being cheaper.

LeRoy
01-16-2010, 05:42 AM
LeRoy, I assume the 902i's are rear ported, are the biwireable too? I can't find anything on this. Even the MS site doesn't mention it. I did read the WhatHiFi review, very nice review at that. And they beat out the Wharefdale 9.1 that were mentioned in an earlier thread, but the reviews on the 9.1 seem good too, they said it came down to price, the 902 being cheaper.

Yes, the 902's are rear ported but surprisingly the vast majority of bass energy comes from the driver. Even at higher volumes there is some to little bass energy coming out the back port. I don't know how they don't do it but i've never heard any chuff from the 902's nor have I ever heard the 902's distort or sound strained.

With regard to the 9.1's....it's more than a difference of price. The 9.1.s while having a more relaxed presentation of the music the tweeter and woofer can sound strained at higher volumes and the bass can sound boomy but deep for such a small speaker. Also, separation of the instruments and voices is not as good as the 902's. Additionally, detail/insight into the music is superior on the 902's. The 9.1's are front ported I have have heard them chuff when pushed. The 9.1's can't dish it out like the 902's can.

Both speakers can be bi-wired and it's easier to do on the 902's.

LeRoy

LeRoy
01-16-2010, 11:05 AM
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/brand/288

While I've heard of Jamo speakers before I can't recall the experience of listening to them....been a very, very, long time ago.

Anyway, seems like they are just about being given away at Vanns. Maybe this speaker line would work for you and get a 5.0 or 5.1 system for about the price of pair of bookshelf speakers...

Thought you might want to know.

Have a nice day.

LeRoy

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 12:08 PM
Looks like some good deals on the Jamo. Not sure if it's what the OP is looking for but I have some friends looking for budget HT.

IRG
01-16-2010, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the Jamo link. I think though, I may order the 902i's tonight. Just seem too good for the $ not to get them.

IRG
01-16-2010, 02:21 PM
Question, I've been looking at the accessories4less page, and their Onkyo and Marantz receivers are factory reconditioned. Anyone have issues with ordering products like these? Also, I can order an open box model from Crutchfield for about the same price (if they include shipping). Better off going that route?

Also the Ixos cables they sell, are they pretty good value? I see the Blue Jean Cables mentioned here, I had never heard of them before, must be a newer company (as in last 5 years).

I'm having a problem deciding on a decent cd player at the moment. I was thinking about the Yamaha DVD S1800 (sacd and dvdaudio), and it's $79 at Amazon. The Marantz 5 disc at ac4less is $159, maybe a better unit?

IRG
01-16-2010, 02:49 PM
The 902i's have been officially ordered now :)

mcbr1
01-16-2010, 03:17 PM
Others probably know more than me, but just based on reviews, the Denon's audio quality seems to be mid-pack, nothing wrong with it, nothing spectacular either, although at this price point, probaby nothing will be. The HK seems to have a loyal following, and would seem to rank it closer to the Marantz. I wonder though, with one company owning both Denon and Marantz, how different they might be.

The Marantz equipment looks and feels a step ahead, the Onkyo stuff is pretty decent too. I don't really like the layout of the H/K, everything is sort of hidden behind a screen. I like turning knobs like what the Onkyo or Yamaha has, they just have a nice feel about them. Instead of different menus and what not.

But at $500 and under, I'm not sure sonically, how really different any of these receivers can be from one another. I don't expect them to be the same, but i would think the differences would be fairly subtle.

To me, it comes down to ease of use, look/feel of controls, reliability and price. They all have phono inputs (not sure the HK does), 50 - 100 watts, spec wise pretty close.

I can get online the Onkyo for $199, the Marantz for $299, those are my two leading contenders. The Yamaha isn't bad either, but it doesn't have a sub out that I think now might not be bad to have. The mid range Yamaha does have it though.


How about in terms of warm/bright/

LeRoy
01-16-2010, 03:35 PM
The 902i's have been officially ordered now :)


With regard to the CDP units you were mentioning. I currently have a Marantz CD/DVD/SACD model# DV6001 single disc player that I use exclusively for movies. The reason I choose the single disk unit over the same player that was a 5-disc unit was due to not being able to swap or change disks while one was playing. Also there were reports of slow loading and respond times with the 5-disc unit.

I don't know if the Marantz unit you are considering also has the same attributes but you may want to research if further. Personally, I would go with a single disk unit be it Yamaha, Marantz, or whomever.

Oh, and one thing I failed to mention as I just now thought about it....do give the 902i's minimum of 4 weeks to get to the intermediate stage of break in. It takes about 6-8 weeks to fully break them in. The tweeter and mids are mostly broken in after about two weeks but the aluminum woofer is tight and needs to loosen up and that's going to take some time. However, your patience will be rewarded indeed.

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 03:54 PM
My experience with IXO's I didn't care for them at all, they sounded bright and lacking in the bottom end. I would recommend the Bluejeans for a budget cable. With that said I only had one pair of the IXO's to compare and I'm not sure what series or model.

Yeah, LeRoy's enthusiasm with the MS makes me wish I had a purpose for a pair, I'd love to hear them.

I might have said this already but in the receivers you are looking at I prefer the Onkyo. I have the little brother 48x2 Onkyo receiver. This thing is impressive with what it can drive. I had it hooked to a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's at one point for fun and it had them slamming. The 7's are a 12" 3-way and if you are familiar with the Kappa series not many receivers could do that. Others will give sound but the Onkyo was moving those 12's and the bass was all there. Hopefully the 8555 has more clarity than the little bro but what can you expect for under $200.00. So if it was a toss up as in your case the current in the Onkyo would sway me. I agree with your assessment of Denon.

IRG
01-16-2010, 04:20 PM
My experience with IXO's I didn't care for them at all, they sounded bright and lacking in the bottom end. I would recommend the Bluejeans for a budget cable. With that said I only had one pair of the IXO's to compare and I'm not sure what series or model.

Yeah, LeRoy's enthusiasm with the MS makes me wish I had a purpose for a pair, I'd love to hear them.

I might have said this already but in the receivers you are looking at I prefer the Onkyo. I have the little brother 48x2 Onkyo receiver. This thing is impressive with what it can drive. I had it hooked to a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's at one point for fun and it had them slamming. The 7's are a 12" 3-way and if you are familiar with the Kappa series not many receivers could do that. Others will give sound but the Onkyo was moving those 12's and the bass was all there. Hopefully the 8555 has more clarity than the little bro but what can you expect for under $200.00. So if it was a toss up as in your case the current in the Onkyo would sway me. I agree with your assessment of Denon.

Thanks Mr. P, the Onkyo is the way I'm going, 99% sure. Maybe will order tomorrow. The 100w version, just to be safe :) I had an old HT 575x model a long time ago, and it was flawless. I had their basic 100 watt power amp/pre amp too over 10 years ago, and for cheap money it wasn't bad. So yeah, I think this system is coming together here.

In terms of biwiring the 902s, how do I do that with a receiver? I have a lot of generic 12ga cable and Monster banana plus I wouldn't mind using. Any thoughts on what I should for speaker cables? I'll check out BJC for their speaker cabe options too.

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 04:29 PM
I will have to defer the bi-wire question, I don't do it. Any reason why you want to? You might do a regular hook up at first to get a feel for the system before experimenting. It helps to have a base for reference.

IRG
01-16-2010, 04:34 PM
I will have to defer the bi-wire question, I don't do it. Any reason why you want to? You might do a regular hook up at first to get a feel for the system before experimenting. It helps to have a base for reference.

No reason why I want to do it, I've never been quite sure what the advantages of it are, and since the 902's can be biwired I figured maybe I should try it. But you're right, I should get a baseline reference first, and go from there. So, what are the supposed advantages of having your speaker bi wired? I would think there must be some advantage/purpose, or why else would speakers have it? Marketing/hype I suppose are good reasons too.

IRG
01-16-2010, 05:46 PM
So I was reading on the BJCables web site on their speaker cables, and they mentioned that biwiring byasses the speakers crossover. "Canare 4S11 is a "star quad" 14-gauge cable, with four conductors together in one outer gray jacket; it is popular for bi-wiring (where the speaker crossover is bypassed and separate wires run to each of four speaker terminals). "

I guess I never knew this, is always the case?

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 07:15 PM
Not all speakers are made to allow bi-wiring. Dynaudio for one does not. The BJC RCA cables I use are the LC series. I think most here gravitated to those. Not sure what speaker wire to recommend.

Here is a link to explain bi-wiring a bit. A Google on the topic should keep you busy reading for some time on the subject if this isn't enough. http://www.brilliancehifi.co.uk/how-to-bi-wire-speakers.htm

LeRoy
01-16-2010, 08:41 PM
what I uncovered.

Onkyo DX-C390
6-CD changer with MP3 CD playback
Item #580DXC390
Your Price $199.99
Be sure to read the user ratings/reviews
http://www.crutchfield.com/brands/Onkyo/

**
We've added this item to your cart
to show you the Temporary Price Reduction.
Onkyo DX-C390
Reg. Price:
$219.00
Your Price:
$175.98
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=21714
Be sure to read the user reviews here too.

**
The Onkyo DX-C390 has been added to your shopping
cart to show you the special price.
Was:
$219.98
Savings:
$50.00
Shipping:
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Your Price
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http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=Onkyo&start=10
Of course I know you are going to read the user reviews here
as well.

No, I did not place an order for it. I simply loaded the cart to see what the hidden price was. :)

frenchmon
01-17-2010, 02:39 PM
IRG...I find the bi-wire debate about the same as the cable/speaker wire debate. Some hear a difference some don't.

I have a pair of Paradigm towers that are bi-wirable. I bought them new back in 2002. Before that I was using some old speakers from the late 70/80's that I bought back then...some old Technic speakers that where 4 way speakers. Great for their time but very out dated by 2002. So I decided to get new speakers. When I first hooked up the Digms they sounded good...very much better than the old Technics which where a cheap speaker any way. After a breakin of the Digms I decided to bi-wire and did notice a difference in the sound quality of the bi-wire. Some hear it, some don't. As always, let your own ears be the judge...may it be with speakers, speaker/inter-connect cable, audio gear or what ever....let your ears be the judge.

frenchmon

IRG
01-17-2010, 02:42 PM
what I uncovered.

Onkyo DX-C390
6-CD changer with MP3 CD playback
Item #580DXC390
Your Price $199.99
Be sure to read the user ratings/reviews
http://www.crutchfield.com/brands/Onkyo/

**
We've added this item to your cart
to show you the Temporary Price Reduction.
Onkyo DX-C390
Reg. Price:
$219.00
Your Price:
$175.98
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=21714
Be sure to read the user reviews here too.

**
The Onkyo DX-C390 has been added to your shopping
cart to show you the special price.
Was:
$219.98
Savings:
$50.00
Shipping:
Free
Your Price
$169.98
http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=Onkyo&start=10
Of course I know you are going to read the user reviews here
as well.

No, I did not place an order for it. I simply loaded the cart to see what the hidden price was. :)

Sorry I missed the post before now. I have read all these reviews, more positive than I thought. The Yamaha 697 is favorably reviewed too, so not sure on which one, or the Marantz 4001. Not sure what direction I want to go here, but may stick with my plan of the Yamaha dvd S1800 as a single disc player.

blackraven
01-17-2010, 06:50 PM
Fro $79 I would go with the DVD S-1800 player and SACD. Take the money saved and put it towards better speakers or amp. I seriously doubt a $200 CD changer is going to sound better than that Yamaha. Just pull the trigger!

IRG
01-17-2010, 07:11 PM
Fro $79 I would go with the DVD S-1800 player and SACD. Take the money saved and put it towards better speakers or amp. I seriously doubt a $200 CD changer is going to sound better than that Yamaha. Just pull the trigger!

I'm doing it tomorrow, don't rush me, lol. I ordered the Mordaunt Short 902i's yesterday, so I'm making progress. Gotta get the amp, I think the Onkyo TX 8555, and the Denon DP300F turntable.

Maybe a new cartridge for it as well? I'm not even sure what it comes with. Scanning the plethora of options at the needledoctor, I see the Denon cartridges are actually pretty well thought of. A high ouput MC. I'm not even sure what the differences are between MM and MC. And what it takes to change cartridges. The easier the better, and this stage.

IRG
01-18-2010, 11:14 AM
Fro $79 I would go with the DVD S-1800 player and SACD. Take the money saved and put it towards better speakers or amp. I seriously doubt a $200 CD changer is going to sound better than that Yamaha. Just pull the trigger!


Pulled the trigger on this one today, seems too good of a value to pass up. Next up, the amp (Onkyo) and the turntable. And some accessories. Trying to sell a couple of things on CL to avoid using the c card as much as possible. So far, so good.

IRG
01-18-2010, 04:26 PM
And now the Onkyo TX-8555 receiver has been ordered too. Just need to get the Denon 300F turntable and I'll be set.

blackraven
01-18-2010, 04:34 PM
Sounds like your putting together a very nice budget system. Please let us know how you like it when its all put together. Use some decent IC's and speaker cables.

LeRoy
01-18-2010, 04:47 PM
And now the Onkyo TX-8555 receiver has been ordered too. Just need to get the Denon 300F turntable and I'll be set.

Glad to know your system is almost complete. Should be pretty exciting once everything gets out of the box and into play.

IRG
01-18-2010, 05:31 PM
Sounds like your putting together a very nice budget system. Please let us know how you like it when its all put together. Use some decent IC's and speaker cables.

I think I'll get the Blue Jean IC's, maybe the speaker cable too, they're not that expensive. Is there any difference in the Belden wire, or the Canare? I have some copper, generic 12g cable wire I could use, with some Monster banana plugs, I might put them together and compare to the BJC.

I need some inexpensive speaker stands too. I think I'll snag the good ones upstairs (parts express, meta, with about 30 lbs of sand in them) and put some kind of Sanus stands in the living room. Is there a good place to get speaker stands?

IRG
01-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Any thoughts on this 'table? http://www.amazon.com/Sumiko-Pro-Ject-Debut-Turntable-Piano/dp/B001FUIQN2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263864770&sr=1-1

It's about $179 more than the Denon, or I could get the Denon and add a good cartridge.

Or in red: http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Debut-III-Turntable-Multicolor_5?sc=2&category=46

02audionoob
01-18-2010, 05:56 PM
If you don't mind spending the money on the Pro-Ject turntable, I certainly believe you won't regret it. You could upgrade the Pro-Ject with a Pro-Ject acrylic platter and a better cartridge, later. If you get the Denon, the $179 would be well spent if you went with a Denon DL-160 cartridge from the start.

I see now I mentioned the Debut III in post #4 of this thread...and here we are. :smile5:

IRG
01-18-2010, 06:20 PM
If you don't mind spending the money on the Pro-Ject turntable, I certainly believe you won't regret it. You could upgrade the Pro-Ject with a Pro-Ject acrylic platter and a better cartridge, later. If you get the Denon, the $179 would be well spent if you went with a Denon DL-160 cartridge from the start.

I see now I mentioned the Debut III in post #4 of this thread...and here we are. :smile5:

I thought it seemed familiar :hand:

Mr Peabody
01-18-2010, 06:35 PM
I haven't heard those tables but if it was me I'd get the ProJect.

LeRoy
01-18-2010, 07:14 PM
I actually have two sets of CCSS speaker cable..and I really like them.

Check out the review here.
http://awards.whathifi.com/winners/cables/2009

I did not think they were too expensive. I have a 2-conductor set, 8-ft, termed
with nana's and I think I paid $135.00.

I also have another 8-ft pair, bi-wire, 4 conductor set, also with nana's and I think I paid $185.00 for that.

With regard to I.C., I have Chord Cobra 3...and it's just okay. You could probably do a lot better for less dollars on the I.C.

Mr Peabody
01-18-2010, 08:10 PM
The Bluejeans LC series RCA are great for the money and will hold up until getting into higher end gear. In comparison i found them to be far superior to Monoprice, better than Radio Shack or a pair of Monster but not quite as good as more expensive brands like Transparent or Analysis Plus. Don't know the model of the Monster we used. I really wouldn't recommend the expense of cable like Transparent etc. for a receiver set up. I consider Bluejeans the best of the mid price cables. I guess that depends on the brand, I preferred the Bluejeans over a set of IXO I was given to try.

blackraven
01-18-2010, 09:35 PM
I second that Pro-Ject TT, its a very good budget TT with good reviews. Pair it with a Bellari VP130 phono preamp and a decent cartridge and you've got some good sound, better than that Denon IMO. You may want to browse audiogon for good deals on that and the entry level Music Hall tables.

02audionoob
01-18-2010, 10:03 PM
I was tempted to say Music Hall, but then I was even hesitant to bring up Pro-Ject. And then there's the Rega P2. Oh, what the heck...the P3-24 or the Technics SL-1200. But then...whatever happened to that budget of $200 per component?

:yikes:

IRG
01-19-2010, 04:22 AM
I was tempted to say Music Hall, but then I was even hesitant to bring up Pro-Ject. And then there's the Rega P2. Oh, what the heck...the P3-24 or the Technics SL-1200. But then...whatever happened to that budget of $200 per component?

:yikes:

Did I say budget? Haha, oh yeah I did. I'll probably still stick with the Denon DP300F, it seems solid, and then splurge on a nice cartridge, which I know nothing about. MC or MM? I really don't know the difference.

But the Rega, Music Hall or Pro ject are all tempting. My local dealer has a Technics SL-Q2 I think, I'll double check. Not sure on the cartridge, about $265. Which Technics models are good? There are a lot. That is what I used to have too.

And what accessories are mandatory for vinyl? THe choices seem endless.

IRG
01-19-2010, 04:23 AM
I second that Pro-Ject TT, its a very good budget TT with good reviews. Pair it with a Bellari VP130 phono preamp and a decent cartridge and you've got some good sound, better than that Denon IMO. You may want to browse audiogon for good deals on that and the entry level Music Hall tables.

Yeah I'm going to spend a bit more time researching the tt options. You're going to make me poor :frown5: :biggrin5:

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 04:53 AM
But the Rega, Music Hall or Pro ject are all tempting. My local dealer has a Technics SL-Q2 I think, I'll double check. Not sure on the cartridge, about $265. Which Technics models are good? There are a lot. That is what I used to have too.

And what accessories are mandatory for vinyl? THe choices seem endless.

The Denon represents exactly what you want, a budget piece. Of course, the Pro-ject would be a better move sonically, but the Denon will keep you happy. Keep in mind the DP300F has a built in stage when considering its value. Needle Doctor are selling them for $399 with an Ortofon 2M Red. This is a great deal.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP300F-with-2M-Red-Package-Deal;jsessionid=0a0101421f43ad4e7e3ab1ef4e4dae8bc3 ea17473a4d.e3eSc3iSaN0Le34Pa38Ta38Raxf0?sc=12&category=-112

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/ORT2MRD.JPG

The Red is a nice match for this table, I own one myself. Once broken in, it has a very forward sound, particularily in the high end. This is coupled with brilliant tone so that horns and vocals are a real pleasure. The 2M series has a group of upgradable styli. Red, Blue, Bronze and Black. As you upgrade tables, the 2M can come along for the ride.

http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=75

http://www.ad-lister.co.uk/Shared/UserImages/5e9d70a9-13f1-4b69-86a8-651544f1413e/Img/mp-110b_800.jpg

A cartridge that I have no personal experience with, but am eager to try is the Nagaoka MP 100/110. The 110 is a monster budget piece. It's the replacement for the MP-11. Unlike the Orto, this cart is more relaxed once settled in. My local dealer puts these on entry level tables, they sound fantastic. The sound is detailed but not a huge as the Ortofon.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Nagaoka-MP-110-Phono-Cartridge_2;jsessionid=0a0101421f43ad4e7e3ab1ef4e4 dae8bc3ea17473a4d.e3eSc3iSaN0Le34Pa38Ta38Raxf0?sc= 12&category=-112

I also own an SL-Q2. It's a real workhorse and a great table. Die-cast plinth that's quite heavy. Quartz accuracy, great for ripping LP's. It has its musical moments, but the Denon would probably edge it out. Many see it as the cousin of the 1200 series. Assuming your dealer has put a budget cartridge on it, $265 might be a little high. Give me the details and I can tell you. Here's a pic of my SL-Q2 (shamelesss photo opp)...

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/aec8b0a499b4900d108fc9a3d4593c80.jpg

As far as accessories go. Don't worry about it. Get the table and the cart, once you start spinning, these items will reveal what they need to sound better. I might suggest some means to clean LP's to get going. This can be done on the cheap however. Once you have the table, post on the subject and we can tell you how.

Good Luck. BTW, it's nice to see someone actually listening to the advice being given. You won't regret it!!

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 05:17 AM
BTW, I'm sure that Needle Doctor would put a Nagaoka on the Denon as opposed to the 2M Red if you asked. Just a thought...

IRG
01-19-2010, 06:23 AM
The Denon represents exactly what you want, a budget piece. Of course, the Pro-ject would be a better move sonically, but the Denon will keep you happy. Keep in mind the DP300F has a built in stage when considering its value. Needle Doctor are selling them for $399 with an Ortofon 2M Red. This is a great deal.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP300F-with-2M-Red-Package-Deal;jsessionid=0a0101421f43ad4e7e3ab1ef4e4dae8bc3 ea17473a4d.e3eSc3iSaN0Le34Pa38Ta38Raxf0?sc=12&category=-112

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/ORT2MRD.JPG

The Red is a nice match for this table, I own one myself. Once broken in, it has a very forward sound, particularily in the high end. This is coupled with brilliant tone so that horns and vocals are a real pleasure. The 2M series has a group of upgradable styli. Red, Blue, Bronze and Black. As you upgrade tables, the 2M can come along for the ride.

http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=75

http://www.ad-lister.co.uk/Shared/UserImages/5e9d70a9-13f1-4b69-86a8-651544f1413e/Img/mp-110b_800.jpg

A cartridge that I have no personal experience with, but am eager to try is the Nagaoka MP 100/110. The 110 is a monster budget piece. It's the replacement for the MP-11. Unlike the Orto, this cart is more relaxed once settled in. My local dealer puts these on entry level tables, they sound fantastic. The sound is detailed but not a huge as the Ortofon.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Nagaoka-MP-110-Phono-Cartridge_2;jsessionid=0a0101421f43ad4e7e3ab1ef4e4 dae8bc3ea17473a4d.e3eSc3iSaN0Le34Pa38Ta38Raxf0?sc= 12&category=-112

I also own an SL-Q2. It's a real workhorse and a great table. Die-cast plinth that's quite heavy. Quartz accuracy, great for ripping LP's. It has its musical moments, but the Denon would probably edge it out. Many see it as the cousin of the 1200 series. Assuming your dealer has put a budget cartridge on it, $265 might be a little high. Give me the details and I can tell you. Here's a pic of my SL-Q2 (shamelesss photo opp)...

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/aec8b0a499b4900d108fc9a3d4593c80.jpg

As far as accessories go. Don't worry about it. Get the table and the cart, once you start spinning, these items will reveal what they need to sound better. I might suggest some means to clean LP's to get going. This can be done on the cheap however. Once you have the table, post on the subject and we can tell you how.

Good Luck. BTW, it's nice to see someone actually listening to the advice being given. You won't regret it!!

Thanks again, the advice has been great, and taken to heart. I'll get back to you all on what type of cartridge is on the Technics. He said the model was a SL-Q20. Is that different than the SL-Q2?

I saw the special that Needledoctor was running on the Denon. But I can get the table from Dakmart for $195, so that is still a better deal, and then upgrade the cartridge. Does Needledoctor install the cartridge for you? And is that worth having them do this, or is it something I should learn how to do? Easy to do, or a PITA?

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 06:43 AM
The SL-Q20 is comparable in quality to the SL-Q2 but there are some differences. The Q2 has an S arm with a 1/2-inch cartridge mount on a removable headshell. The Q20 has a straight arm with a plug-in cartridge mount. Unless the cartridge is confirmed new and represents a large part of the price, I think your dealer's price is way too high for the market...although it's still a decent turntable. These turntables sold for $200 around 30 years ago.

Also...my opinions on your questions: Yes...installing a cartridge is a PITA. Yes...you should learn to do it. I can't think of any mandatory accessories, although mandatory is a matter of opinion. I'd prefer to have a tracking force gauge and a method of thoroughly cleaning my records...not just wiping off the dust...unless I were to buy only new records.

And one more comment, the Technics SL-Q20 would be very easy to set up, because the tracking angle and tracking force are preset.

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 06:53 AM
Thanks again, the advice has been great, and taken to heart. I'll get back to you all on what type of cartridge is on the Technics. He said the model was a SL-Q20. Is that different than the SL-Q2?



Yes, they are different. Particularily, the 20 has a straight arm. I can't speak to the quality of the 20 except to say that it would be worth a listen. Unless your dealer has a new table, $265 is grossly overpriced for this. Even if it was new, I don't know if it could garner that kind of money. Have a listen, but I would shy away from any dealer who tries to pull a fast one like that.


I saw the special that Needledoctor was running on the Denon. But I can get the table from Dakmart for $195, so that is still a better deal, and then upgrade the cartridge.

Indeed, you are better researched than me. Great price. That's a new table, not open box or return/refurb?


Does Needledoctor install the cartridge for you? And is that worth having them do this, or is it something I should learn how to do? Easy to do, or a PITA?

Necessary evil I'm afraid. Needle Doctor will do it but then it can come out of wack during the shipping process. Your best bet is to take it to a local dealer, assuming they are specialists in the matter, and have them teach you how.

The basic idea is simple and there are protractors available to help you. It can become very detailed however, this is where experience come into play. The more you do it, the better you become. IMO, a PITA but some guys relish it.

Anyhow, consider the Nagaoka MP-110 if you buy it cart-less. That closeout price from Needle Doctor is a steal.

They also have a 2M Red at closeout cost, another great deal...


http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-2M-Red-Phono-Cartridge_2

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 07:00 AM
I'd prefer to have a tracking force gauge and a method of thoroughly cleaning my records...not just wiping off the dust...unless I were to buy only new records.

.

I have a hard time believing that the Chief of The Record Cleaning Police Force could leave a new record alone. Oh sorry, you guys changed the name, Record Cleaning Police Service. Heh...

Mr Peabody
01-19-2010, 07:05 AM
I would suggest for accessories at least a carbon fiber brush for cleaning the dust off the LP. These are only $25.00 give or take. A stylus brush comes in handy if not one provided with the cart or table. Needle Doctor probably has these in a budget or try www.amusicdirect.com When you pull out an LP and notice it dirty you should have some way to get the dirt off and if deep dirt the brush didn't get your stylus (needle) will get dirty and will not sound good so you will need to get the dirt off the stylus. For really dirty LP's there are a lot of recipes on the net for home brew cleaning solution.

The Denon does have the built in phono but so does the receiver. So why pay for it in the Denon. I thought the Debut 3 was at a lower price point have you shopped the internet for it? A quick look showed Needledoctor selling the ProJect $349.00 but that was the lowest, looks like Sumiko keeps a good control on pricing. Ortofon is one of my favorite budget carts i used to use on my old Pioneer table. Shure and Stanton were good too. Not much of an Audio Technica fan. The ProJect would be worth the expense but I know $150.00 difference can be a lot when on a budget.

IRG
01-19-2010, 07:10 AM
OK, I thought the price of the Technics 'table seemed high too. This shop isn't known for its bargains really, which is why I've basically avoided them til now.

The $195 price from Dakmart is refurbished. http://www.dakmart.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_9_77&products_id=6550

Good, or should I avoid this? The savings of the $100 could be spent on that Nagaoka cartridge. Also, in terms of "accessories" I did mean a cleaning brush, something like that, and maybe an anti-static mat? For the most part, although I do have a bunch of old vinyl, they aren't in great condition, and from here on out, I'll be buying now and then, nice new pressings for the most part. Quality vs. quantity. unlike my record collection some 25+ years ago.

IRG
01-19-2010, 07:14 AM
I would suggest for accessories at least a carbon fiber brush for cleaning the dust off the LP. These are only $25.00 give or take. A stylus brush comes in handy if not one provided with the cart or table. Needle Doctor probably has these in a budget or try www.amusicdirect.com When you pull out an LP and notice it dirty you should have some way to get the dirt off and if deep dirt the brush didn't get your stylus (needle) will get dirty and will not sound good so you will need to get the dirt off the stylus. For really dirty LP's there are a lot of recipes on the net for home brew cleaning solution.

The Denon does have the built in phono but so does the receiver. So why pay for it in the Denon. I thought the Debut 3 was at a lower price point have you shopped the internet for it? A quick look showed Needledoctor selling the ProJect $349.00 but that was the lowest, looks like Sumiko keeps a good control on pricing. Ortofon is one of my favorite budget carts i used to use on my old Pioneer table. Shure and Stanton were good too. Not much of an Audio Technica fan. The ProJect would be worth the expense but I know $150.00 difference can be a lot when on a budget.

Thanks, I'm considering the Pro ject for sure. I'll look for a carbon brush too, that seems like what I;m after. A home brew to clean off the old records will be mandatory I think. Shouldn't be too hard, or too expensive to do this. New records going forward will be treated with a bit more respect :biggrin5:

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 07:14 AM
I believe AR member Stan just recently bought the refurb from dakmart and was very happy with it. Am I remembering right, folks?

If you're going to wet-clean records, you need a way to vacuum it up. That's the principle behind the good record-cleaning machines and it's far superior to wiping, no matter what you wipe with. Cleaning records poorly might be as bad or worse than not cleaning them at all. You could be spreading stuff that's on the top surface across and into the grooves.

Photo op for my "record-cleaning machine"....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/4016158122_af02bb6198.jpg

If you're going to buy a carbon-fiber brush, don't get taken to the cleaners (pun intended). The ones that range from $10 to $25 at this site are exactly the same...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Carbon-Fiber-Brushes

Mr Peabody
01-19-2010, 07:22 AM
I wouldn't be afraid of factory refurbs. Some even give the original warranty. I have bought a couple refurb items and worked out good.

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 07:23 AM
The Denon does have the built in phono but so does the receiver. So why pay for it in the Denon. I thought the Debut 3 was at a lower price point have you shopped the internet for it? A quick look showed Needledoctor selling the ProJect $349.00 but that was the lowest, looks like Sumiko keeps a good control on pricing. Ortofon is one of my favorite budget carts i used to use on my old Pioneer table. Shure and Stanton were good too. Not much of an Audio Technica fan. The ProJect would be worth the expense but I know $150.00 difference can be a lot when on a budget.

Ahhh, yes. I didn't know you had a receiver with a phono stage. This does change things a bit IRG. If you plan to hang onto it for a while, you could get a regular table. I would try and research the reputation of your amps stage vs. the ability of the Denon.


The $195 price from Dakmart is refurbished. Good, or should I avoid this? The savings of the $100 could be spent on that Nagaoka cartridge.

I can't personally say, I know nothing about dakmart's reputation. Therein lies your answer. Perhaps start a thread on the topic or hit Google up.

At that price point I say it's a great deal, regardless of your amp. This will give you ability outside of the context of your system. If for example, you want to rip or listen to LP's digitally, you will have that option without further expense.

Give it some thought. I think you have a bit more reading to do...

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 07:31 AM
Maybe you need to talk to this guy...

http://ithaca.craigslist.org/ele/1556625731.html

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 07:33 AM
IRG, look in the picture I posted of my SL. To the right you will see 2 microfiber cloths each purchased for $1.79 from a local surplus store. They do a fine job at pre-spin dust removal.

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 07:39 AM
If you're going to use one of those devices that you put on the record while it's spinning, like a carbon-fiber brush, you will have to be delicate about it. The torque in these belt-drive turntables is very, very low.

IRG
01-19-2010, 07:39 AM
Maybe you need to talk to this guy...

http://ithaca.craigslist.org/ele/1556625731.html

Did that yesterday :biggrin5: Haven't heard back though.

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 07:42 AM
Did that yesterday :biggrin5: Haven't heard back though.

Too bad you don't live near me...

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/1557684544.html

That one had a list price of $400 in the 1980's.

IRG
01-19-2010, 08:49 AM
Too bad you don't live near me...

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/1557684544.html

That one had a list price of $400 in the 1980's.


I will be in Texas sometime in March, Houston and probably Dallas. I liked the brush/vacuum, I have a smaller shop vac, that could be perfect. So on the end of the vacuum are the microfiber cloths then? Do you spray anything on the cloths, or keep them dry? Either way, I like it. Low budget, low tech, works great, my kind of product ;)

Upon closer look of that pic, it looks like a brush at the end of the Shop Vac, not a cloth.

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 09:00 AM
I will be in Texas sometime in March, Houston and probably Dallas. I liked the brush/vacuum, I have a smaller shop vac, that could be perfect. So on the end of the vacuum are the microfiber cloths then? Do you spray anything on the cloths, or keep them dry? Either way, I like it. Low budget, low tech, works great, my kind of product ;)

The cover on the vacuum nozzle is velvet, rather than microfiber. My latest cleaning-fluid recipe is a 3:1 ratio of distilled water to alcohol, with a drop or two of Dawn in an 8-ounce bottle. My process is:

a - Wet the record itself in a circle

b - Spread it around with a sponge or even scrub gently back and forth in a semi-circle, depending on how much the record appears to need it

c - Vacuum it up in a gentle, slow circular pattern

Don't let the wife see us kissing and winking. She might get the wrong idea. :blush2:

Also...although I don't run my tracking force at exactly the recommended optimum...I go a little heavy...I have been enjoying the accuracy of a tracking force gauge. Here's a digital model I got from dealextreme.com...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4287743351_61629daf27.jpg

IRG
01-19-2010, 10:16 AM
The cover on the vacuum nozzle is velvet, rather than microfiber. My latest cleaning-fluid recipe is a 3:1 ratio of distilled water to alcohol, with a drop or two of Dawn in an 8-ounce bottle. My process is:

a - Wet the record itself in a circle

b - Spread it around with a sponge or even scrub gently back and forth in a semi-circle, depending on how much the record appears to need it

c - Vacuum it up in a gentle, slow circular pattern

Don't let the wife see us kissing and winking. She might get the wrong idea. :blush2:

Also...although I don't run my tracking force at exactly the recommended optimum...I go a little heavy...I have been enjoying the accuracy of a tracking force gauge. Here's a digital model I got from dealextreme.com...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4287743351_61629daf27.jpg

That sounds great, thanks. I've written down your recipe. I have plenty of crappy records to practice on too :)

So I got an email back from local dealer. The SL-Q20 has an AudioTechnica AT-112EP cartridge installed. They also sell new the Audio Technica AT-PL120 and the Denon DP-300F at $400 and $360 respectively. Not very competitive prices I don't think.

So I'll do a little more research, and see what comes up, but I don't want to wait forever either. Not like whatever I purchase I have to live with forever.

02audionoob
01-19-2010, 10:28 AM
If you buy a used turntable, presumably with a used cartridge, replace the stylus. You'll have no way of knowing what its condition is. Here's an example for the AT-112EP:

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=ATN112EP

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 10:28 AM
If you don't mind a little imperfection, here's a humdinger of a deal...

http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php3?detail=MMF5&nav=cat

IRG
01-19-2010, 10:37 AM
If you don't mind a little imperfection, here's a humdinger of a deal...

http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php3?detail=MMF5&nav=cat

Interesting, wish they had a pic of it. Audio Classics isn't too far from where I live, never been there though. Might be worth a trip sometime.

IRG
01-19-2010, 10:39 AM
If you buy a used turntable, presumably with a used cartridge, replace the stylus. You'll have no way of knowing what its condition is. Here's an example for the AT-112EP:

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=ATN112EP

That looks like a real budget cartridge then. I think I'll go new with the table as well, I like the idea of starting off without someone else's problems (so I can make them my own, lol).

IRG
01-19-2010, 12:03 PM
Speaker stands. They still seem overpriced for what they are. I might use the current ones I have in my home system, put them in my new system. But I'll need something to replace the old ones. Affordable is good. But they gotta be sturdy too. The speakers are a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3. Not real large, but not small either. Plus, the gd cats jump on top of them, so they can they jump on top of the entertainment system. So they need to support these lovable bastards as well.

Good places for stands? Partexpress has some, audioadvisor, Crutchfield, where else? Anyone make stands that are cheap but good?

Maybe these?http://www.crutchfield.com/p_051NF18B/Sanus-NF18-Speaker-Stands-Black-lacquer.html?o=p&showAll=Y&search=speaker+stands&ssi=0

A bit shorter, but that might not be a bad thing for the main room.

IRG
01-19-2010, 04:18 PM
There is a 1.5 year old Music Hall MMF-2 for sale on the 'Gon for $329. Looks to be mint. Not a bad deal at all? http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1269125108&/Music-Hall-MMF-2.2-turntable-i

Although for $70 more, the Rega P1, or for $50 more, the Pro ject....but I digress. I have a guitar pedal I must sell on ebay soon.

IRG
01-19-2010, 04:48 PM
I was browsing the Needledoc's site looking at the different Pro ject tables, and the wife concurred with me that she liked the Ferrari red one too. Not sure if I have the green light on this or not, I don't know if she saw the price or not, and I didn't ask. ;)

poppachubby
01-19-2010, 08:26 PM
I was browsing the Needledoc's site looking at the different Pro ject tables, and the wife concurred with me that she liked the Ferrari red one too. Not sure if I have the green light on this or not, I don't know if she saw the price or not, and I didn't ask. ;)

Why don't you contact audio classics about the MMF 5.1? I'm sure they would send you a pic. Worth pursuing. For $300 you would be leaps and bounds ahead of the budget tables, priced the same. The 5.1 is a real performer...

JoeE SP9
01-19-2010, 09:35 PM
I have found Audio Classics to be completely honest in their assesment of gear. They were also very quick about shipping.

blackraven
01-19-2010, 10:38 PM
If your handy you could build your own out of wood. I'm going to do just that this summer. I'm going to build them out of cherry or maple from home depot. I may attach the base to a granite slab if I can find some cheap remnant pieces at a granite store and have them cut them. Otherwise it will be MDF and sorbothane for the speakers base.

IRG
01-20-2010, 03:51 AM
Why don't you contact audio classics about the MMF 5.1? I'm sure they would send you a pic. Worth pursuing. For $300 you would be leaps and bounds ahead of the budget tables, priced the same. The 5.1 is a real performer...


I think I'll do that today, can't hurt.

IRG
01-20-2010, 03:54 AM
If your handy you could build your own out of wood. I'm going to do just that this summer. I'm going to build them out of cherry or maple from home depot. I may attach the base to a granite slab if I can find some cheap remnant pieces at a granite store and have them cut them. Otherwise it will be MDF and sorbothane for the speakers base.


I'm toying with that idea, but I can't do much building during the winter (maybe like you) and I don't want to wait til summer, but maybe I'll get an inexpensive option now, and then try and build something better over the summer. Got any plans? Wish I had welding equipment, then I would build something substantial.

IRG
01-20-2010, 09:39 AM
Maybe you need to talk to this guy...

http://ithaca.craigslist.org/ele/1556625731.html


QUICK update, I just got a reply back on this, it is a Technics SL-Q200. $25, good shape according to the seller. Thoughts?

I see it was made between '83 - 84, in Japan, p mount cartridge.

poppachubby
01-20-2010, 09:49 AM
Is it in good condition? Cartridge? More details... bottom line, $25 you can't lose as long as it's operational.

Mr Peabody
01-20-2010, 09:51 AM
My thoughts, is it a Pro Ject, no, but it's $25.00 and you are putting together a "budget" system. The phono stage in the Onkyo or Denon would be a weak link for a higher end table any way. Besides that get your feet wet again with a cheaper table and then later if you are really into it then you can upgrade.

IRG
01-20-2010, 10:00 AM
Yeah, for $25 I can't really lose. I might pick it up tonight, and see how it is. Maybe buy a new p mount cartridge for it, any kind I should look at? Thanks as always, Ian

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 10:11 AM
QUICK update, I just got a reply back on this, it is a Technics SL-Q200. $25, good shape according to the seller. Thoughts?

I see it was made between '83 - 84, in Japan, p mount cartridge.

If I were in your shoes, I'd buy it and replace the cartridge from the start. You can't trust a used cartridge and a 25-year-old stylus could have problems even if the diamond isn't worn. I had an Ortofon that was almost unused but about that old and the diamond came off, a few weeks ago.

Here are some P-mount cartridges you could consider...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/P-Mount-Cartridges

I have the AT311EP and can vouch for it. You could also replace its stylus with an AT Shibata for an upgrade that I can also vouch for. I have an Ortofon that I use with a 20 stylus and a Pro S...depending on the age and condition of the record. The 20 is a great stylus and the 10 isn't bad, either. I think the OMP-10 would be a nice choice.

You also might enjoy the more lush Grado cartridges, which come in P-mount. I kind of like the Grado sound, but for some people it's love-em or hate-em.

Mr Peabody
01-20-2010, 10:20 AM
I liked the Ortofon as well. I also enjoyed the Stanton but didn't see any listed at a glance. Shure is always a safe bet as well. I personally found Audio Technika a bit bright and not as natural sounding as the prior. It's been so long since I've used P-mount I can't remember which model AT I had.

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:02 AM
If I were in your shoes, I'd buy it and replace the cartridge from the start. You can't trust a used cartridge and a 25-year-old stylus could have problems even if the diamond isn't worn. I had an Ortofon that was almost unused but about that old and the diamond came off, a few weeks ago.

Here are some P-mount cartridges you could consider...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/P-Mount-Cartridges

I have the AT311EP and can vouch for it. You could also replace its stylus with an AT Shibata for an upgrade that I can also vouch for. I have an Ortofon that I use with a 20 stylus and a Pro S...depending on the age and condition of the record. The 20 is a great stylus and the 10 isn't bad, either. I think the OMP-10 would be a nice choice.

You also might enjoy the more lush Grado cartridges, which come in P-mount. I kind of like the Grado sound, but for some people it's love-em or hate-em.

So this Ortofon here: http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-OMP10-P-Mount-Phono-Cartridge?sc=2&category=16684

Funny the cartridge will be more than 3x the price. The seller mentioned the stylus should be replaced, but that all else was good. Funny, I think this was the turntable I used to own in the 80's. What comes around...

I like this idea. Nice and cheap, functional. And then I can save up for something better when I'm ready, and whether I still enjoy vinyl, which I think I will.

So is mounting a p mount cartridge straight forward process? Just plug and play, or is there more to it than that?

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Uh oh, I just got the pics on the Music Hall MM-5 from Audio Classics. It looks nice, the cover is a bit scratched, but not bad. No catridge, they would set it up though.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/irg2/MM-5.jpg

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Installing a P-mount cartridge is super easy. You remove a screw from the side, plug in the cartridge, re-install the screw. In my humble opinion, getting a low price on a turntable is certainly no reason to skimp on the cartridge. This setup will allow you to see if you're really going to listen to your LPs before you invest anything significant in it.


Uh oh, I just got the pics on the Music Hall MM-5 from Audio Classics. It looks nice, the cover is a bit scratched, but not bad. No catridge, they would set it up though.

Novus Plastic Polish #2 can take out the superficial scratches.

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:08 AM
Also from Audio Classics: " It's fully manual, has a gloss black plinth, the glass platter, and a hinged dust cover (which sustained some scratches by the previous owner accounting for the "C" condition code).

It came in sans cartridge so you'll have to decide on one of those, which I can install and set up for you so it will be "plug and play" when you pick it up. We have Grado, Shure, Denon, and Dynavector in stock.

It has an onboard isolated motor which uses an outboard power supply; a "wall-wart", so as to eliminate any chance for noise generated by 120 volt power supply. Dedicated gold plated RCA cables, and a felt mat, and the original carton."

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm kinda torn, cheap and maybe decent, or pricier, but quite good.

Another pic:
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/irg2/Cover.jpg

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 11:11 AM
If you do this, don't put a Grado cartridge on the MMF-5. It will almost certainly hum, increasing as it gets closer to the center.

You can probably rule out Dynavector. As far as I know, they start at $430. The Denon DL-160 might be a decent option. The Shure M97XE is decent, if you don't mind a little bit of a rolled-off top end.

I would almost promise you Novus #2 could make that cover look very good, except for the mark about two inches down and to the right of the logo.

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:16 AM
It looks cool, but for now, I'm going budget. I'll take the $25 Technics, decent cartridge, and be happy :) I'll upgrade soon enough.

poppachubby
01-20-2010, 11:28 AM
Man oh man, I might have to buy the 5.1. Dang it looks good.

The Technics will be fine to start,but the MMF represents one heck of a deal with potentially no upgrade ever necessary.

I have an OMB-10 on my table right now. It's just starting to break in and sounds fantastic. Big fat bass, beautiful mid range and nice warm highs. For a table with limited sonics, good choice.

poppachubby
01-20-2010, 11:33 AM
BTW, the thing you will enjoy about the Technics vs the MMF, and this would be the ONLY thing, is the automatic status of the SL. It's nice and convenient.

They hardly make direct drive, automatic tables anymore. They are not in demand, with vinyl lovers wshing their tables to be as quiet as possible, with less mechanics. I think belt drive, fully manual and probably easier to build as well.

Aside from this, the Technics can't even play the same game as the MMF, let alone in the same league.

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:36 AM
Any thoughts on Stanton cartridge? http://www.needledoctor.com/Stanton-L720EE-P-Mount-Cartridge?sc=2&category=16684

I see one on ebay for $44.

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:39 AM
BTW, the thing you will enjoy about the Technics vs the MMF, and this would be the ONLY thing, is the automatic status of the SL. It's nice and convenient.

They hardly make direct drive, automatic tables anymore. They are not in demand, with vinyl lovers wshing their tables to be as quiet as possible, with less mechanics. I think belt drive, fully manual and probably easier to build as well.

Aside from this, the Technics can't even play the same game as the MMF, let alone in the same league.


I understand, won't be as good. For my current music collection, 99.9% of it will be cd. I'll get some new vinyl, slowly. Maybe if I get much in a tax rebate, I'll use a bit for a new Pro ject table, we'll see. I think budget wise, right now the Music Hall is more than I should spend. Trying to be practical here :nonod:

poppachubby
01-20-2010, 11:47 AM
Any thoughts on Stanton cartridge? http://www.needledoctor.com/Stanton-L720EE-P-Mount-Cartridge?sc=2&category=16684

I see one on ebay for $44.

Despite the price, the output is pretty low on this cart. I am reccomending the Ortofon OMP-10. The stylus is upgradable, there's a 20 and a 30. Great price for great performance and will match the output of your table nicely.

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 11:51 AM
I would second the Ortofon recommendation. I would predict no problems with the output level of the Stanton, but the cartridge is a bad place to skimp.

IRG
01-20-2010, 11:54 AM
OK guys, thanks. Ortofon it is then, will do a little more searchin on it tonight...

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 12:05 PM
I have also been impressed with my AT311EP, which would save a little money as compared to the OMP-10, if you're interested in that. The AT stylus can be upgraded later, just like the Ortofon, to an excellent stylus...

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATN3472LC

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATN3472HE

IRG
01-20-2010, 12:32 PM
OK, so the AT311EP is $60 or so, and then you upgrade just the stylus to a better one, around $80 - $120 is that right? How hard is replacing the stylus? The folks at audioclassic mentioned on their website the following, that I thought was interesting: "To properly inspect a needle for wear requires a good microscope. Yet, microscopes used in most stereo stores are adequate to show only gross wear – wear that will cause serious damage to the delicate groves of your valuable records. Audio Classics has a $6800 Wild-Heerbrugg Laboratory Research Stereomicroscope. This instrument shows in greatest detail the record contact areas of your needle. At Audio Classics, you can see, with the aid of the Stereomicroscope, the true condition of your needle. FACT – Up to 40% of new needles are in some way defective. YOU cannot buy a defective needle or an improperly calibrated and adjusted record player at Audio Classics because every new needle is inspected using the Wild-Heerbrugg laboratory Research Stereomicroscope. In addition, the needle you buy will be installed on your turntable, the turntable will be electronically adjusted and balanced (at no charge) to insure you against abnormal needle or record wear."

Interesting that 40% of needles have some defect. Whether or not i would be able to discern such defect on a Technics table remains to be seen.

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 01:58 PM
If you buy the AT311EP you can get good usage out of the elliptical stylus that ships with it, then replace it later with a similar one for $32 or upgrade for $80 or even $120. The stylus itself is on a plastic grip that comes out with no tools and takes literally 5 seconds to re-install. As far as stylus defects go, I'd say it's just a chance we analog fans take.

With a P-mount cartridge, you will have no control over its alignment...which can be a good thing, since it can't be done wrong. You will need to give it time to break in, since the cantilever that holds the diamond will loosen up and track better over time.

The AT311EP and OMP-10 are a few bucks cheaper here...

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=AT311EP&cat=246

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=omp10&cat=246

IRG
01-20-2010, 03:36 PM
If you buy the AT311EP you can get good usage out of the elliptical stylus that ships with it, then replace it later with a similar one for $32 or upgrade for $80 or even $120. The stylus itself is on a plastic grip that comes out with no tools and takes literally 5 seconds to re-install. As far as stylus defects go, I'd say it's just a chance we analog fans take.

With a P-mount cartridge, you will have no control over its alignment...which can be a good thing, since it can't be done wrong. You will need to give it time to break in, since the cantilever that holds the diamond will loosen up and track better over time.

The AT311EP and OMP-10 are a few bucks cheaper here...

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=AT311EP&cat=246

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=omp10&cat=246


Thanks for the links. Not familiar with that place. Just picked up the Technics tonight. Will definitely need a new cartridge, but overall it's in pretty good condition. I'll shine it up a bit, maybe get some of the cleaner that was mentioned for the table cover, get some decent interconnects, and I'll be good to go. Just waiting on the other components to arrive.

Will order some decent cables tonight, and probaby a carbon brush for records. Can't wait to get it all together.


And then start upgrading :cornut:

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 04:30 PM
What kind of cables are you planning to order?

poppachubby
01-20-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm heading back out to work, how bout some pics?

IRG
01-20-2010, 05:01 PM
What kind of cables are you planning to order?

Not sure, probably those Blue Jeans Cables. About $29 each. I'm tempted to order the Canare speaker cable and try the biwire option. Not sure what else to look for that is affordable. Maybe some Monster options, although I know they aren't liked by too many. Does RS or Best Buy have anything besides Monster or the cheap house brands?

Here's a pic of the new table. Really in quite good condition, considering its age. Gave it a bit of cleaning tonight, had some tape on the front, but got it off with rubbing alcohol. I really can't complain for $25 can I?

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/irg2/IMG_0928.jpg

IRG
01-20-2010, 05:06 PM
I'm heading back out to work, how bout some pics?

Ask and you shall receive :) Next up, cables, and speaker stands.

IRG
01-20-2010, 05:17 PM
Monster, $20, any good? http://www.crutchfield.com/p_119MC2001M/Monster-Cable-Stereo-Audio-200i-1-meter-3-3-ft.html?tp=3302

Not sure how I feel about cables. Obviously good construction is important, interference, and all that, but for a budget system, not sure they will make much if any difference in tone, all things considering. I'll see what else I come up with.

Edit, these are about $4 more than the BJC. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703GNAK1M/AudioQuest-G-Snake-1-meter-3-3-feet.html?tp=3302


ANd these stands perhaps: http://www.racksandstands.com/Sanus-BF-24-B-SY0002.html

Definitely leaning towards BJCables now.

Mr Peabody
01-20-2010, 05:33 PM
With RS or Monster you will spend the same or more than Bluejeans and receive less performance. BJC all the way.

When buying stylus they were about 90% cost of a whole new cartridge.

Audioquest has a nice little carbon fiber brush for dry clean. the fibers are long too and usually don't make the platter drag unless I get heavy handed :)

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 07:20 PM
Monster, $20, any good? http://www.crutchfield.com/p_119MC2001M/Monster-Cable-Stereo-Audio-200i-1-meter-3-3-ft.html?tp=3302

Not sure how I feel about cables. Obviously good construction is important, interference, and all that, but for a budget system, not sure they will make much if any difference in tone, all things considering. I'll see what else I come up with.

Edit, these are about $4 more than the BJC. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703GNAK1M/AudioQuest-G-Snake-1-meter-3-3-feet.html?tp=3302


ANd these stands perhaps: http://www.racksandstands.com/Sanus-BF-24-B-SY0002.html

Definitely leaning towards BJCables now.

The stylus for the $84 Ortofon OMP-10 is $47. The stylus for the $60 AT311EP is $32. The AudioQuest brush is $25 at needledoctor.com and virtually identical brushes by LKG, Pro-Ject and Stanton are available for $10, $15 and $20. The Monter Cable interconnect is $20 and a 3-foot BJC LC-1 is $31.50.

Mr Peabody
01-20-2010, 07:29 PM
Now you tell me, why did you let me buy that AQ brush :) Styli must have gotten more reasonable in some instances.

02audionoob
01-20-2010, 07:32 PM
Now you tell me, why did you let me buy that AQ brush :) Styli must have gotten more reasonable in some instances.

Indeed only in some instances. The stylus for the $450 Goldring 1042 is $350. :frown5:

Edit...I probably shouldn't have pointed out that the Monster Cable at Crutchfield is less without confirming I believe the BJC is probably the superior cable due to its confirmed low capacitance. I've been happy with mine.

IRG
01-20-2010, 07:45 PM
OK, I think I'm set (for now). I got the AT 311EP cartridge, and a carbon fiber brush ($12), a LAST stylus brush ($5), and a few other things.

GOt the BJC LC-1 cables (2), and the Belden 5000 10ga wire, and banana connectors. Decided not to biwire this time. Can always do that later. And I found some speaker stands from Audio Advisor that seem decent, and $50, about as inexpensive as I could find.

Now I just need it all to arrive so I can put it together!

poppachubby
01-20-2010, 08:28 PM
Your table certainly looks great. Awesome deal for $25, right on! I'll be interested in your thoughts on how it sounds. Congrats!

Don't be a stranger...

IRG
01-21-2010, 04:13 AM
Your table certainly looks great. Awesome deal for $25, right on! I'll be interested in your thoughts on how it sounds. Congrats!

Don't be a stranger...

I'll be sticking around. Wish the forum was a little livelier though. I'm used to Harmoney-Central (especially pedal effects forum) where a new thread on page 1 can vanish quickly if you don't keep up.

But yeah, I'll be around, who else am I gonna turn to when I want to upgrade?

And speaking of, I was looking at nice integrated amps and such, do people really prefer not having tone controls and balance controls and such, just an input selector and a volume control? I know, purists want it pure, but I dunno. My Roksan gear I used to own was like that, and I always felt there was something missing with it, compared to my budget gear. I like to tweak my tone controls, maybe that comes from being a guitarist, I dunno. Thoughts?

poppachubby
01-21-2010, 05:14 AM
I'll be sticking around. Wish the forum was a little livelier though. I'm used to Harmoney-Central (especially pedal effects forum) where a new thread on page 1 can vanish quickly if you don't keep up.

But yeah, I'll be around, who else am I gonna turn to when I want to upgrade?

And speaking of, I was looking at nice integrated amps and such, do people really prefer not having tone controls and balance controls and such, just an input selector and a volume control? I know, purists want it pure, but I dunno. My Roksan gear I used to own was like that, and I always felt there was something missing with it, compared to my budget gear. I like to tweak my tone controls, maybe that comes from being a guitarist, I dunno. Thoughts?

Right, the general idea is that if an amp is really good, it doesn't need to be tweaked. Certainly not with tone controls. However, some people dig those features too, it just depends really.

If you listen at low levels, then controls can be helpful.

My Kenwood Basic C1 has Treb/Bass, Bal and Loudness, but I rarely touch any of it.

If those things are important to you, then buy a product that has them.

And yes, the boards can move slowly here. Audio Karma and Audio Asylum are busier if that's what you like. The difference I find, is that it can be quite impersonal. It's great if you have an issue you would like to post, but not so great for just chatting.

I am an inmate at the vinyl asylum, because vinyl interest here is pretty low overall. The Asylum has a great range of owners with budget to high end gear, and they all hang together. Check it out sometime...

IRG
01-21-2010, 07:07 AM
Right, the general idea is that if an amp is really good, it doesn't need to be tweaked. Certainly not with tone controls. However, some people dig those features too, it just depends really.

If you listen at low levels, then controls can be helpful.

My Kenwood Basic C1 has Treb/Bass, Bal and Loudness, but I rarely touch any of it.

If those things are important to you, then buy a product that has them.

And yes, the boards can move slowly here. Audio Karma and Audio Asylum are busier if that's what you like. The difference I find, is that it can be quite impersonal. It's great if you have an issue you would like to post, but not so great for just chatting.

I am an inmate at the vinyl asylum, because vinyl interest here is pretty low overall. The Asylum has a great range of owners with budget to high end gear, and they all hang together. Check it out sometime...

Thanks - just registered at A. Asylum, I remember that place from years ago, hadn't visited it in a long time. We'll see how much time I can devote to this. I'm checking out speaker placement now, and what is an ideal placement for speakers, distance, yada yada. I gotta tackle my room a bit more before the gear arrives. Any cheap Lowes/Home depot products that are good for taming room acoustics? I have a rug on the floor, but the room is kind of a mish mash of finished and unfinished. I need to have an electrician (which is also a neighbor) put some good ac outlets into this room. Some ceiling acoustics would be helpful too I think.

02audionoob
01-21-2010, 07:35 AM
And speaking of, I was looking at nice integrated amps and such, do people really prefer not having tone controls and balance controls and such, just an input selector and a volume control? I know, purists want it pure, but I dunno. My Roksan gear I used to own was like that, and I always felt there was something missing with it, compared to my budget gear. I like to tweak my tone controls, maybe that comes from being a guitarist, I dunno. Thoughts?

A popular reply at AudioKarma is the "+1". So in the spirit of that I'll say...

+1 on integrated amps with no tone controls.:thumbsup:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4292602453_bef7e6021c.jpg

IRG
01-21-2010, 08:07 AM
A popular reply at AudioKarma is the "+1". So in the spirit of that I'll say...

+1 on integrated amps with no tone controls.:thumbsup:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4292602453_bef7e6021c.jpg

Nice amp, I've always wanted an Audio Research amp someday. Is this one yours? I assume they're still in business then, which is good.

02audionoob
01-21-2010, 08:16 AM
Yes...this one is mine. I've toyed with the idea of going to separates, but this was the entry-level approach to Audio Research.

Here's another purist approach...the bedroom system...a CD player straight to the amp...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4292678611_881a5ae0a6.jpg

...bordering on "vintage". There used to be a preamp in this setup, until the system was demoted from the man cave.

poppachubby
01-21-2010, 09:08 AM
Yes...this one is mine. I've toyed with the idea of going to separates, but this was the entry-level approach to Audio Research.

...bordering on "vintage". There used to be a preamp in this setup, until the system was demoted from the man cave.

Nice pics noob!


Any cheap Lowes/Home depot products that are good for taming room acoustics? I have a rug on the floor, but the room is kind of a mish mash of finished and unfinished. I need to have an electrician (which is also a neighbor) put some good ac outlets into this room. Some ceiling acoustics would be helpful too I think.

It really depends on your room. When you say "taming" room acoustics, what specifically do you mean? Is your room really bright? What's your ceiling made of?

You can check my Main Room link in my sig to find the make up of my room. I have several bass traps to reduce boominess, and panelling along the rear and adjacent wall. Side walls have diffusion from the wall coverings, CD rack, etc. I basically use the Cardas Golden Cuboid for speaker and seat placement. ZERO toe in for big, bad azz stage.

Have your friend run a line out of your box if you have any room left at all. Use the existing line for digital and use the new one for analog. This will solve much of the issue regarding power.

I give this link to anyone seeking info. Scroll down to find just about any issue covered.

http://www.ecoustics.com/Home/Accessories/Acoustic_Room_Treatments/Acoustic_Room_Treatment_Articles/

IRG
01-21-2010, 10:45 AM
Well I dunno if the room will be problematic yet or not. It is a basement room, concrete floor. But I have a fairly good rug over the flloor so that should help. This room also houses my 2 tube guitar amps, pedal board, and 4-5 guitars. And a furnace, and a water heater. I'm proposing soon, of building a wall around those two, so they won't be in the way. But they're off to the side, and not that big of a nuisance, except when on.

The walls have tools and stuff on them, I'm going to rearrange that soon I think. So the actual listening area won't be that big. Speakers should be about 5-6 feet apart, about 1-2 feet away from back wall. Listening position will be in the middle, but there isn't much room between the listening couch, and the back wall. Nothing to be done about that.

Duct work in the ceiling could be a problem, as certain frequencies rattle when I play guitar. I need to find a quick fix for that. Ceiling is wood, no drop ceiling has been installed, so that could be a bit bright, maybe not. I can stick some insulation inbetween the rafters perhaps, sound absorption, and warmer upstairs, lol.

It's pretty crude, but in a small house with 3 kids and 3 cats, it's better than nothing. I'll take a pic of it soon, so we can all have a good laugh.

poppachubby
01-21-2010, 11:08 AM
Well I dunno if the room will be problematic yet or not. It is a basement room, concrete floor. But I have a fairly good rug over the flloor so that should help. This room also houses my 2 tube guitar amps, pedal board, and 4-5 guitars. And a furnace, and a water heater. I'm proposing soon, of building a wall around those two, so they won't be in the way. But they're off to the side, and not that big of a nuisance, except when on.

Nice to see another musician here. I am a bass player. I have an early 70's Ampeg V4, all tube of course.


The walls have tools and stuff on them, I'm going to rearrange that soon I think. So the actual listening area won't be that big. Speakers should be about 5-6 feet apart, about 1-2 feet away from back wall. Listening position will be in the middle, but there isn't much room between the listening couch, and the back wall. Nothing to be done about that.

Hmmm..if the rear wall is REALLY close it can really cause havoc, giving off really fast reflections that will take away from your experience. Damping this will be probably one of the more important things to do.


Duct work in the ceiling could be a problem, as certain frequencies rattle when I play guitar. I need to find a quick fix for that. Ceiling is wood, no drop ceiling has been installed, so that could be a bit bright, maybe not. I can stick some insulation inbetween the rafters perhaps, sound absorption, and warmer upstairs, lol.

Yes, I would damp the duct work itself and then drape something over it, creating a seudo drop ceiling. Depending on how much absorption you put into the room, you may want to drape something reflective. It will certainly require some testing.



It's pretty crude, but in a small house with 3 kids and 3 cats, it's better than nothing. I'll take a pic of it soon, so we can all have a good laugh.

Ya, I've got 2 kids and a wife, so I fully hear you. Glad you're in good spirits about it. Don't worry, if you're willing to put in some work we can fix it up. It should also help your guitar's tone to really flourish. I play my bass in the same room as my audio and it's really punchy and bright.

IRG
01-21-2010, 11:22 AM
The room size is probably 12x15. Maybe a shade tighter. When I meant rear wall, I misspoke. The wall behind the speakers, I'll have them out maybe a foot from the wall. Distance from the speakers to the rear wall probably 9-10 feet I think. I'll do some measurements tonight and post back on this.

poppachubby
01-21-2010, 11:32 AM
The room size is probably 12x15. Maybe a shade tighter. When I meant rear wall, I misspoke. The wall behind the speakers, I'll have them out maybe a foot from the wall. Distance from the speakers to the rear wall probably 9-10 feet I think. I'll do some measurements tonight and post back on this.

I got the impression that the wall behind your listening seat is directly behind. My bad. I have to head out to work. We'll chat after you get all of your gear...in the mean time, try to read up on the subject. With all of your spare time:p

IRG
01-21-2010, 11:49 AM
I got the impression that the wall behind your listening seat is directly behind. My bad. I have to head out to work. We'll chat after you get all of your gear...in the mean time, try to read up on the subject. With all of your spare time:p

No you're right. My listening sofa, has a wall right behind it. Concrete too, can't really move it :) I might be able to move the sofa out, a little bit. We'll see. Will try reading up more on it, will probably be trial an error too.

blackraven
01-21-2010, 12:01 PM
I actually like tone controls. (Gasp! I think I offended the Audiophile Gods) They can help tone down a bright system or lend a little more bass. They are especially helpful in lower end systems. I especially like preamps like some of the Van Alstine's that you can get with tone controls and a tone control bypass which totally takes the tone controls out of the loop for the cleanest sound possible. It gives you the best of both worlds. I certainly have some older Cd recordings that are too bright on my maggies and tone controls certainly would help.

IRG
01-21-2010, 12:55 PM
I actually like tone controls. (Gasp! I think I offended the Audiophile Gods) They can help tone down a bright system or lend a little more bass. They are especially helpful in lower end systems. I especially like preamps like some of the Van Alstine's that you can get with tone controls and a tone control bypass which totally takes the tone controls out of the loop for the cleanest sound possible. It gives you the best of both worlds. I certainly have some older Cd recordings that are too bright on my maggies and tone controls certainly would help.

Well my budget Onkyo receiver I don't think has bypassable tone controls, (not sure) but I believe the Yamahas do. Sometimes it seems like the more you spend, the less you get (features wise) but I do realize (some) high end companies put their money into better parts/power supplies etc. and better design than they do lots of options, which is fine. For the most part, you don't need a lot. But I agree, sometimes a little treble or bass boost/cut is needed on certain recordings.

Edit, I may be wrong, I see a Pure Audio button on the front panel of the Onkyo, maybe it does bypass the tone control as well.

IRG
01-22-2010, 04:58 AM
So I measured the room today, overall it's about 14 x 13. I'll subtract a litttle bit with the furnace sitting in the corner and all. So if I have the speakers about 1 foot out from the wall, I could probably move the couch out about a foot from the back wall, would that be better? That would give me probably 10 feet between speakers and seating position.

Got the speakers last night, and the Yamaha dvd S1800 arrived too. Just need the Onkyo to get here, cables, cartridge and stands, and I'll be in business. The room will get a bit of a makeover this weekend.

Mr Peabody
01-22-2010, 06:16 AM
You would want to put something on a couple of the walls to absorb sound in order to keep the reflections and reverb down. I know that's difficult on concrete. You could try a heavy curtain from the ceiling sort of against the wall.

poppachubby
01-22-2010, 06:43 AM
Good Morning. Exciting isn't it? And to think xmas was only a month ago, here you are with version 2.0. Glad all of your stuff is rolling in, in a timely fashion.

So.... are the speakers rear ported? I would suggest reading either online, or perhaps included with your speakers, Mordaunt Short's suggestions for placement. 1 foot out from the wall may be ok.

The first and biggest problem we have here IRG, is the wall behind your listening seat. It's concrete for starters, and much to close. What is going to happen is not good. The soundstage will seem really shallow. The early diffusion is going to jumble up the sound due to horrible timing.

You know the foam they sell at places like Wal-Mart? It's sold as a sleeping product. Buy enough to cover the entire wall. Next, you would find either a sheet or covering to cover the more than ugly foam. You may try to find the foam at a used store

This option doesn;t break the bank and will make a huge impact on the room, particularily at high volumes.

Let me know how you make out. Just focus on the back wall. One thing at a time...

IRG
01-22-2010, 07:25 AM
So the back wall (concret) needs to be addressed, that doesn't sound too bad. It does have a couple of shelves on it now, although I'm thinking of ditching them. Then I can put foam/fabric on the wall for better sound absorption. I was thinking of putting some insulation in the ceiling too. But it sounds like the back wall needs to be addressed first. I'm making a quick trip out to Lowes and Walmart today, we'll see what I find.

poppachubby
01-22-2010, 08:00 AM
But it sounds like the back wall needs to be addressed first. .


Right, focus on one thing at a time. This way we can "measure" the effect or usefullness of an addition, and decide whether or not it helps. Too many things at once can create alot of uncertainty about what is actually helping, hurting or even just altering the environment. If we don't like something, we simply undo it.

Another thought, aside from the wall which we know we want to damp, it's best to approach each step with a "test" before committing to it. Obviously, we are doing this on a budget in the first place. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if at all possible, we would want to put up a cheap or already avaialble material to test it. If the desired results appear, consider a permanent solution which may also take into account things like size, appearance and sometimes, odor (old, mildew piece of foam, y'know?).

Once the foam is acquired, make sure to keep a piece or two so that you can do this.

IRG
01-22-2010, 08:20 AM
You know the foam they sell at places like Wal-Mart? It's sold as a sleeping product. Buy enough to cover the entire wall. Next, you would find either a sheet or covering to cover the more than ugly foam. You may try to find the foam at a used store



Got a link to this foam product you're thinking about? I'm not sure what this might be, been searching walmart, homedepot for something similar, haven't found it yet.

poppachubby
01-22-2010, 08:43 AM
I'll upload a photo of one that I have. It will also play a key role in damping your ductwork, and making some DIY bass traps.

blackraven
01-22-2010, 01:04 PM
Hey IRG, I just ordered that Yammy DVD S1800 for myself. Its too good a deal to pass up ($79 for a player that sold for about $450) for an SACD/DVD-A player that has gotten good reviews. It will be used in one of my secondary systems or I may give it to one of my Kids.

IRG
01-22-2010, 03:19 PM
Hey IRG, I just ordered that Yammy DVD S1800 for myself. Its too good a deal to pass up ($79 for a player that sold for about $450) for an SACD/DVD-A player that has gotten good reviews. It will be used in one of my secondary systems or I may give it to one of my Kids.

Cool! I thought so too, just too good of a player to pass up. As a good dvd player, I'm sure it's better than what I have now, so if I don't use it in my audio system, I'll put it to good use in the av system - which is very un state of the art, lol.

Could this also be used soley as a transport, with a optical cable to a DAC, and then the DAC to your receiver/preamp? Might not be bad fot that either.

blackraven
01-22-2010, 03:31 PM
You could definitely use it as a transport. It may end up in my main system as transport for standard Cd playback and also with analog connection to use as an SACD player till I buy the Oppo BD-83se which will be used for Blu-Ray and SACD. Currently I'm using my modified Music Hall 25.2 cdp as a transport, but I would like to use it in my secondary system.

I should get the yammy in about a week and I'll post a review. I think it will end up being a nice budget Cd player as a decent SACD player. It also plays DVD audio which is a bonus.

IRG
01-22-2010, 04:31 PM
You could definitely use it as a transport. It may end up in my main system as transport for standard Cd playback and also with analog connection to use as an SACD player till I buy the Oppo BD-83se which will be used for Blu-Ray and SACD. Currently I'm using my modified Music Hall 25.2 cdp as a transport, but I would like to use it in my secondary system.

I should get the yammy in about a week and I'll post a review. I think it will end up being a nice budget Cd player ad a decent SACD player. It also plays DVD audio which is a bonus.

Sounds good to me. I got mine yesterday, but don't have the amp yet to hook it up. It's like taunting me, sitting in the box, while I can't do anything with it :sad:

Mr Peabody
01-22-2010, 07:49 PM
How would carpet look on the wall? There's this type of foam we just call "egg crate", it's smooth on one side and the other....., well, looks like an egg crate. It's used for like matress pads and should be available in most stores like Wally World.

Does that Yammie have HDMI output for SACD?

blackraven
01-22-2010, 08:08 PM
[QUOTE=
Does that Yammie have HDMI output for SACD?[/QUOTE]

Nope, its only SACD through analog. But hey, for $79 it will beat my son's Sony Cd changer if I decide to give it to him.

IRG
01-22-2010, 08:18 PM
How would carpet look on the wall? There's this type of foam we just call "egg crate", it's smooth on one side and the other....., well, looks like an egg crate. It's used for like matress pads and should be available in most stores like Wally World.

Does that Yammie have HDMI output for SACD?

Not sure what Wally Word is, but I don't have one here. I looked for some stuff today at Home Depot, didn't find anything. Some kind of carpet may go on the wall. How about the stuff that goes under carpets, kind of that thick padding, doesn't weigh much either. If I can find something that doesn't look too hideous, maybe. I'll keep looking for stuff. Joann fabrics maybe, and just make som drapes or something. I'll probably end up spending more on this than the stereo :cornut:

poppachubby
01-22-2010, 08:58 PM
Not sure what Wally Word is, but I don't have one here. I looked for some stuff today at Home Depot, didn't find anything. Some kind of carpet may go on the wall. How about the stuff that goes under carpets, kind of that thick padding, doesn't weigh much either. If I can find something that doesn't look too hideous, maybe. I'll keep looking for stuff. Joann fabrics maybe, and just make som drapes or something. I'll probably end up spending more on this than the stereo :cornut:

No carpet underlay. Not enough absorbtion. Peabody described what I've been trying to tell you. That's what you need...

It may cost a bit in the end, but in a room like yours it's a must.

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5081407/223633_Full.jpg


I built a wack of paneling a while back, covered it with a gray fabric. I'm actually going out tommorrow to find some nice colourful stuff to cover several panels with. My H/T room has a Kandinsky on the wall. I will find a colour to match one from the painting. This will meet the WAF requirements. The room has pretty bad slap echo. Here's a pic with some panels in it. I can show you how to make them. Easy and cheap Mr. Frugal...

blackraven
01-22-2010, 09:06 PM
Pops, you the man when it comes to home made gear! I love the panels that you made. How bout hopping down here to Minnesota and building me a pair for some heavy beer drinking, fine food and music:18:

Mr Peabody
01-22-2010, 09:06 PM
Wally World=Wal-Mart. Redneck slang :)

Carpet padding would not be good if the smooth or plastic side faced outward. What about cork board? That could work and maybe not expensive. Check thrift stores for ideas. You just need something soft facing the stereo to absorb the sound to keep it from reflecting. Go retro, remember Fun Fur :)

Mr Peabody
01-22-2010, 09:09 PM
BR, I was wondering about the HDMI because my AV8003 has built in DSD. The Yamaha could have been a cheap way to play. I don't have an empty shelf any way but if it had HDMI it would have been tempting. Easier to swap in and out, i could have just used my BDP same connection.

blackraven
01-22-2010, 09:10 PM
How about some nice wall tapestries or wall rugs-

http://www.rugs-direct.com/rugsdirectory/home_page.aspx?N=140+4294925369+4294723086

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Hand-tufted-Contempo-Wall-Wool-Rug-5-x-8/4143859/product.html?cid=123620&fp=F&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12146374

http://www.thefinetapestry.com/?affiliateid=GATFT&ctt_id=3997841&ctt_adnw=Google&ctt_kw=tapestry%20wall%20hanging&ctt_ch=ps&ctt_entity=tc&ctt_adid=4367937309&ctt_nwtype=search&ctt_cli=8x11173x69797x629229&gclid=CPTvsojfuZ8CFQHxDAodJUBbyw

poppachubby
01-22-2010, 09:10 PM
Cool! I thought so too, just too good of a player to pass up. As a good dvd player, I'm sure it's better than what I have now, so if I don't use it in my audio system, I'll put it to good use in the av system - which is very un state of the art, lol.

Could this also be used soley as a transport, with a optical cable to a DAC, and then the DAC to your receiver/preamp? Might not be bad fot that either.

Whgat kind of DAC do you have IRG? If the Toshiba can process SACD I'm thinking it probably has a respectable converter built in.

I was thinking REALLY hard about buying a used Oppo DVD player. Since videophiles are jumping ship to Blu-Ray, these machines can now be had for a song. I've seen some go for under $100 on Ebay, mint condition. Decided to bide my time and buy a Blu-Ray instead.

I'm not much for CD's but the DVD aspect of the Oppo is really appealing to me. TOTL is something I've never had in regards to H/T...

poppachubby
01-22-2010, 09:14 PM
Pops, you the man when it comes to home made gear! I love the panels that you made. How bout hopping down here to Minnesota and building me a pair for some heavy beer drinking, fine food and music:18:

Hey thanks alot Raven, means alot! I still have about 12 extra panels that aren't in use. I will probably use 4 for the H/T room. I will check at my work how much it would be to ship you the balance using our corporate freight account.

IRG
01-23-2010, 04:29 AM
No carpet underlay. Not enough absorbtion. Peabody described what I've been trying to tell you. That's what you need...

It may cost a bit in the end, but in a room like yours it's a must.

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5081407/223633_Full.jpg


I built a wack of paneling a while back, covered it with a gray fabric. I'm actually going out tommorrow to find some nice colourful stuff to cover several panels with. My H/T room has a Kandinsky on the wall. I will find a colour to match one from the painting. This will meet the WAF requirements. The room has pretty bad slap echo. Here's a pic with some panels in it. I can show you how to make them. Easy and cheap Mr. Frugal...

Yeah that first pic is what I'd like to find. I'll have to search around for some. The carpet pad wouldn't be too bad, the stuff I saw was quite porous, but would probably fall apart to easily.

IRG
01-23-2010, 04:34 AM
Whgat kind of DAC do you have IRG? If the Toshiba can process SACD I'm thinking it probably has a respectable converter built in.

I was thinking REALLY hard about buying a used Oppo DVD player. Since videophiles are jumping ship to Blu-Ray, these machines can now be had for a song. I've seen some go for under $100 on Ebay, mint condition. Decided to bide my time and buy a Blu-Ray instead.

I'm not much for CD's but the DVD aspect of the Oppo is really appealing to me. TOTL is something I've never had in regards to H/T...

Well the DAC I have, is what will be in the Yamaha player (the dvd S1800) I think it has Burr Brown DACS, from their site:
DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD playback
Four two-channel Burr-Brown 192kHz/24-bit audio DACs
Audio Direct mode

So that's what I'll be using. I'm a relative noob when it comes to outboard DACs and then benefits of using them. We'll see if I need to go that route, probably not, at least for now.

IRG
01-23-2010, 04:12 PM
I got everything hooked up tonight. Still need speaker stands to arrive, and the t table cartridge.

Off topic question, I have an old pair of JBL HLS-610's that I'm trying to sell. One speaker has a tear in it. Is it possible to fix it with some nail polish or some other sort of fix? The replacement speaker is apparently hard to find, and the one place that has it charges $170 for it. I'm trying to sell the pair for $45, and a potential buyer offered me $25, (plus I was throwing in a pair of Monster banana plugs and about 20 feet of 12 ga wire. So I said no, but if I can fix the speaker, he'd be interested at $45. So if there is a cheap way to fix this, I'd be interested to know how.

I'll post a pic of my setup soon. Been working on it all day.

frenchmon
01-23-2010, 04:48 PM
No carpet underlay. Not enough absorbtion.

Where did you get that idea that carpet has not enough absorbtion?

frenchmon

IRG
01-23-2010, 05:02 PM
Where did you get that idea that carpet has not enough absorbtion?

frenchmon

I think he was referring to my idea of the carpet padding. Depends on the kind of padding I think. Carpeting, especially a shag type carpeting would seem to work well. I think my temporary solution isn't bad, I had some shelves on that concrete wall, and I place a big blanket on the top shelf, and had it fit behind the sofa, so it's absorbing some of the sound waves. Better than nothing, but pretty, it's not.

frenchmon
01-23-2010, 05:04 PM
I think he was referring to my idea of the carpet padding. Depends on the kind of padding I think. Carpeting, especially a shag type carpeting would seem to work well. I think my temporary solution isn't bad, I had some shelves on that concrete wall, and I place a big blanket on the top shelf, and had it fit behind the sofa, so it's absorbing some of the sound waves. Better than nothing, but pretty, it's not.

Oh I see. Why don't you just use carpet?

frenchmon

IRG
01-23-2010, 05:11 PM
Oh I see. Why don't you just use carpet?

frenchmon

I have carpet on the floor. The concern was the rear wall, behind where I am listening. There isn't much distance between my seating position and this rear wall - there just isn't much room. The concern is that this rear wall is conrete, hence some sort of foam panels, etc. on the wall. Putting a carpet on the wall seems somewhat challenging. Maybe there's a good way to do it?

blackraven
01-23-2010, 05:40 PM
If the rear wall is concrete there are a few easy ways to hang things to it. You can by a masonry drill bit and drill into the wall for one.