Speaker Wire Question

[Highlander67]

First, thanks for looking in and I hope I can get an answer to a simple question.

I'm rewiring my HT system and have a question about cable Gauge wire. right now im running Monster XP cable which I think is 14-gauge, but not sure. In all honesty, does going to a higher gauge, say 12-gauge make that much of a difference? The total cable runs will not be longer then 15 ft a piece.

Thanks in advance

[mtrycraft]

First, thanks for looking in and I hope I can get an answer to a simple question.

I'm rewiring my HT system and have a question about cable Gauge wire. right now im running Monster XP cable which I think is 14-gauge, but not sure. In all honesty, does going to a higher gauge, say 12-gauge make that much of a difference? The total cable runs will not be longer then 15 ft a piece.

Thanks in advance


Not to worry. Those will be fine, even if they are 16ga which I think they are. 15 ft is nothing.
Next time buy less expensive cables. Monster is expensive.

[Highlander67]

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it. Actually I get a really good deal on cables through a local distributor and basically get all cables for Cost.

[mtrycraft]

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it. Actually I get a really good deal on cables through a local distributor and basically get all cables for Cost.


Cost is good, yes. :) How much?

[JoeW2]

Could you elaborate why you think these will be fine? 16g is essentially lamp cord. The thinner the cable, the higher the resistance - but you know this. You also know that a higher resistance has a direct impact on low frequency response. Somehow, without knowing what the poster wanted from his system, you knew what would serve his ears. The difference between 16g and 14g is roughly 1/2 the resistance, and will be audible. (good or bad) Drop it to 12g and it's 1/2 of that again.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to presume that these differances will audible. Somehow you know what will be fine, without knowing his system or preferance.
Are you clarvoyant, or can you explain how you came to your conclusion?


Not to worry. Those will be fine, even if they are 16ga which I think they are. 15 ft is nothing.
Next time buy less expensive cables. Monster is expensive.

[markw]

The "resistance loss" over that length is negligable to begin with. Perhaps measurable with sensitive enough equipment but highly unlikely it is audiable with either 16 or 12 gauge.

If he were talking much greater distance, say 40 - 50 feet or so, then the difference between 16 gauge and 12 gauge might be a little more meaningful. For that length I too would recommend 12 gauge. But, even for that length, 16 gauge would not be an insurmountable obstacle to good sound.

In any case, he already has 14 gauge wire. The jump from 14 to 12 gauge is even less significant than in the scenario you used.

[Highlander67]

Well, my cost on almost any cable is a heck of alot less then what most people pay for them online or in the average department store. I bought a friend of mine 100 foot of the Monster Xp cable for 12 dollars which is a pretty good deal I think. As for my purpose, I decided to go with 12 Gauge wires all throughout my system. The 15 foot cable runs are for the front three speakers while my rears are around 30 to 40 feet each. I have used the Monster XP cable and to me, the sound quality seems fine to me. I would consider myself an audio buff but no where near the buffs that some people are here.

The info is good to read here though.

[mtrycraft]

Could you elaborate why you think these will be fine? 16g is essentially lamp cord. The thinner the cable, the higher the resistance - but you know this. You also know that a higher resistance has a direct impact on low frequency response. Somehow, without knowing what the poster wanted from his system, you knew what would serve his ears. The difference between 16g and 14g is roughly 1/2 the resistance, and will be audible. (good or bad) Drop it to 12g and it's 1/2 of that again.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to presume that these differances will audible. Somehow you know what will be fine, without knowing his system or preferance.
Are you clarvoyant, or can you explain how you came to your conclusion?

15 ft is insignificant. Greenhill was unable to demonstrate differences between 16 ga and 12 ga with music. A no brainer.
Davis has shown the insignificant effect of cables with 10X the resistance difference.

No, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know, that is why I am here. Nothing to presume as htere is no evidence for differences between 16 ga and 14ga or 12ga.

But, the hypemaster will hype relentlessly.

[mtrycraft]

Well, my cost on almost any cable is a heck of alot less then what most people pay for them online or in the average department store. I bought a friend of mine 100 foot of the Monster Xp cable for 12 dollars which is a pretty good deal I think. As for my purpose, I decided to go with 12 Gauge wires all throughout my system. The 15 foot cable runs are for the front three speakers while my rears are around 30 to 40 feet each. I have used the Monster XP cable and to me, the sound quality seems fine to me. I would consider myself an audio buff but no where near the buffs that some people are here.

The info is good to read here though.


12 cents a foot is a good price, indeed.

[omikey]

15 ft is insignificant. Greenhill was unable to demonstrate differences between 16 ga and 12 ga with music. A no brainer.
Davis has shown the insignificant effect of cables with 10X the resistance difference.

No, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know, that is why I am here. Nothing to presume as htere is no evidence for differences between 16 ga and 14ga or 12ga.

But, the hypemaster will hype relentlessly.
Given that I agree with your post (and I do) would you think that it will make any diff in signal strength over a 60 foot run ... 14 or 12 ga ??? If you were running speaker wire 60 feet in your house, what guage would you use ?


Does anyone have trouble getting the 12ga wire into the speaker post or the avr binding post ?

Thanks,
Mikey

[mtrycraft]

Given that I agree with your post (and I do) would you think that it will make any diff in signal strength over a 60 foot run ... 14 or 12 ga ??? If you were running speaker wire 60 feet in your house, what guage would you use ?


Does anyone have trouble getting the 12ga wire into the speaker post or the avr binding post ?

Thanks,
Mikey


If you have not yet pulled the wires, run 12 ga for sure.

If you have problems getting it into the terminals, just cut enough strands off being careful not to have loose threads, and go for it. That smaller section, a 1/2", will not matter.

[markw]

I agree with the 12 gauge suggestion.

I would, however, suggest you look into either banana plugs or spade lugs for terminations. Not so much a sound issue, but more of a convenience and safety issue. All it takes is one single strand of wire...

[omikey]

Thanks for the tips.
I will run 12ga ... and Mark I had been considering putting banana plugs on the cables.
I have been undecided about that ... some say (like everything) the more connections, the more signal loss ... blah blah .....

I have been inclided to think that having the plugs would be nice, neat, easy, all the things that you point out .... and was of the tought that I would never be able to notice any difference in the sound (hell I'll never test the different setup so how would I hear the difference :-)

Do they make plugs that can be soldered on ? If not, is there one brand that you would recommend over another ? Or a specfic type ?
What about BLADES versus banana plugs ?

Thanks in advance for your help !

I sure appreciate that we have a place where people are willing to share their knowledge with us !!



I agree with the 12 gauge suggestion.

I would, however, suggest you look into either banana plugs or spade lugs for terminations. Not so much a sound issue, but more of a convenience and safety issue. All it takes is one single strand of wire...

[markw]

Dunno about solder type bananas or even if t hey make 'em. Personally, I don't feel the need for them even if they do. I just tighten the screw and it forms a nice, tight bond and they haven't come loose yet. I use RatShacks with the screws and they don't seem to be causing any problems.

Spades are fine if you're not going to be kerfutzing around with the connections on a fairly regular basis. Loosening and retigtening those binding posts can be a hassle, notto mention the possibility of tighrtning therm a little too tight just once.

IOW, If I were running wires through a wall and they were going to be connecting to the back of the wall plate, I'd use spades. For between the front of the wall plates and t he speakers, I'd go bananas. (some might say I already have).

But with spades, invest in a nice crimp tool, if you don't have one already,

[omikey]

If I choose to go with banana plugs (and I am) .... what is your opinion on 'seperate' plugs versus those that come as a single unit ?
Thanks,
Mikey



Dunno about solder type bananas or even if t hey make 'em. Personally, I don't feel the need for them even if they do. I just tighten the screw and it forms a nice, tight bond and they haven't come loose yet. I use RatShacks with the screws and they don't seem to be causing any problems.

Spades are fine if you're not going to be kerfutzing around with the connections on a fairly regular basis. Loosening and retigtening those binding posts can be a hassle, notto mention the possibility of tighrtning therm a little too tight just once.

IOW, If I were running wires through a wall and they were going to be connecting to the back of the wall plate, I'd use spades. For between the front of the wall plates and t he speakers, I'd go bananas. (some might say I already have).

But with spades, invest in a nice crimp tool, if you don't have one already,

[markw]

Most, not all, equipment can accept the dual plugs. A few pieces, generally of European origin, have the spacing such that they cannot accept the dual banana plugs.

Otherwise, it makes no difference. On the whole, I would go separate simply because it makes putting the buggers on a bit simpler.

[omikey]

Mark - Thanks for taking the time to share you views and experiences with me.

I'm gonna go with seperate plugs ....

Thanks again !!

[mtrycraft]

Mark - Thanks for taking the time to share you views and experiences with me.

I'm gonna go with seperate plugs ....

Thanks again !!


Any connection that makes your life simpler is just fine. Audio legends apply only to the faithful :)
No problem in soldering banana plugs even if it is primarily a screw type plug. Screw doen the wire and solder it. Then sit back and enjoy without a worry :)

[omikey]

mtrycrafts - Thanks, I think I will solder the plugs on, then sit back and E N J O Y :-D

[Willow]

Dont know about you but in Canada at rat shack all I can find are silvertip nanner plugs. monster too expensive, what about AR naner plugs? they dont have the screw type juts the kind where you shove in all the way, what do you think of those ?? I want to buy some just dont know where to get them