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poppachubby
01-03-2010, 04:32 PM
Hey lads!

I need some help sourcing some 6SL7 tubes. Technically I need just one, but depending on the cost I will gladly roll both.

I have looked on Ebay and found this...good?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370314974397&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Here's another...

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/155452-sylvania_6sl7
wgt_matched_pair_nos_brown_baseblack_plates/

How about this guy?

http://www.audiotubes.com/6sl7.htm

jrhymeammo
01-03-2010, 05:04 PM
Hey Poppa,

Don't buy tubes from ebay. They are cheaper than other stores, but they are cheap for a good reason. They usually do not meet certain specs set by retailers, so they usually sell other working but lesser quality tubes to ebay sellers.
Some here have good experience with ebay tubes, but I've read horror stories on expensive NOS tubes.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1199816340&read&keyw&zzplace+to+buy+tubes

Read up on above thread for your reference.
Kevin from UpscaleAudio is a d*ck from my experience, but sells good tubes.

http://thetubestore.com/6sl7types.html

6SL7, what will it be used for?
If it's used as input/driver/power, then it may be best to match a pair, instead of just replacing one tube. If it's just used as a rectifier tube, I wouldn't worry too much though.

JRA

poppachubby
01-03-2010, 05:41 PM
It's a pre-amp tube for my Golden Tube SE 40. Ya, I'm quite certain I'll replace both. Thanks for the tips!!

02audionoob
01-03-2010, 05:43 PM
I think Jim McShane will help you out via email...

http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/tubes.htm

Another good source...

http://www.tubedepot.com/6sl7.html

poppachubby
01-03-2010, 06:23 PM
Thanks noobinator.

Hyfi
01-04-2010, 05:13 AM
Talk to Steve @

http://www.questforsound.com/

Feanor
01-04-2010, 08:46 AM
Hey lads!

I need some help sourcing some 6SL7 tubes. Technically I need just one, but depending on the cost I will gladly roll both.

I have looked on Ebay and found this...good?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370314974397&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

...
eBay doe have some good tube deals if you shop carefully. Choose a good seller and read the descriptions very carefully . E.g. if tube isn't explicitly described as "new", or at least "NOS", it is used. Used isn't necessarily bad; I bought a pair of used Amperex 'PQ' 6922's that have been working beautifully for almost 3 years -- I paid about 1/4 the retail price for a NOS copy ofthe same tube.

Here are a couple of eBay tube sellers who have treated me well ...

restless_nomad ... http://myworld.ebay.ca/restless_nomad/
riatla ... http://myworld.ebay.ca/riatla/A Canadian retail tube supplier is The Tube Store ... http://thetubestore.com/

A seller who also provides great background info about tubes is Tube World ... https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm

And here's another good source of toob technical data ... http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/ ... see HERE (http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6SL7) re. the 6SL7.

mlsstl
01-04-2010, 09:30 AM
I buy my tubes from Triode Electronics in Chicago - http://www.triodeel.com. They've been very reliable for many years now. Looks like they have Tung Sol 6SL7s in stock.

bonsaiguitar
01-06-2010, 09:26 AM
Hey Poppa,

Don't buy tubes from ebay. They are cheaper than other stores, but they are cheap for a good reason. They usually do not meet certain specs set by retailers, so they usually sell other working but lesser quality tubes to ebay sellers.
Some here have good experience with ebay tubes, but I've read horror stories on expensive NOS tubes.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1199816340&read&keyw&zzplace+to+buy+tubes

Read up on above thread for your reference.
Kevin from UpscaleAudio is a d*ck from my experience, but sells good tubes.

http://thetubestore.com/6sl7types.html

6SL7, what will it be used for?
If it's used as input/driver/power, then it may be best to match a pair, instead of just replacing one tube. If it's just used as a rectifier tube, I wouldn't worry too much though.

JRA

If a seller is selling anything other than top quality they will state in in their auction. If they are not their feedback will show it. Some of the best tube sellers on the planet sell every day on Ebay. A load of horse crap.

jrhymeammo
01-06-2010, 10:25 AM
That's a load of horse crap. If a seller is selling anything other than top quality they will state in in their auction. If they are not their feedback will show it. Some of the best tube sellers on the planet sell every day on Ebay. A load of horse crap.

I'm just regurgitating what I've read from other audio forums. I've never bought tubes from ebay based on what I've read, so I was just sharing information I had read. Of course, I've read the Bose offer the highest fidelity in the world...

I think we all got your comment that you feel my post is a load of horse crap. But the answer we all would like to know, especially poppa, who do you recommend and what have you purchased? If they were the greatest tube seller in the world, then what do you base it on? Other people's feedback of the seller? If so, isn't your comment as good as mine?

As Feanor stated, I knoew he had great experience with his NOS or lightly NOS tubes from Ebay. I never said, all tubes from Ebay are bad.

Thanks for sharing your comments as I did mine.
As for Horse crap, feed this post to your Bonzai. It just might act as fertilizer.

JRA

poppachubby
01-06-2010, 10:35 AM
As Feanor stated, I knoew he had great experience with his NOS or lightly NOS tubes from Ebay. I never said, all tubes from Ebay are bad.

JRA

You don't have to explain yourself JRA, I got your message, and it wasn't overstated.

What HAS been overstated is the horse crap. Bonzai, if you're not just posting to be EXTREMELY contrary, can you suggest some tube sellers from Ebay perhaps? This would be productive...

Thanks, Chubbs

Feanor
01-06-2010, 10:50 AM
....
A Canadian retail tube supplier is The Tube Store ... http://thetubestore.com/

....

Another Canadian retailer I recommend unreservedly is Parts ConneXion ... HERE (http://www.partsconnexion.com/).

poppachubby
01-06-2010, 11:16 AM
Another Canadian retailer I recommend unreservedly is Parts ConneXion ... HERE (http://www.partsconnexion.com/).

thanks Bill. BTW, I checked your Ebay sellers but neither had my tube in stock. Thanks...

bonsaiguitar
01-06-2010, 01:35 PM
You can do your own research. I've already done enough being a guitar player for more years than some of you have been alive. Yes, guitar players use tube amps too. Yngwie Malmsteen, Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, they all use tube amps.

It's pretty easy to do research on Ebay though not all sellers use their storefront names like Eurotubes, Groovetubes, etc. If you see a seller with 100% feedback and he's sold say 2000 items I would say its safe to say he's not selling second hand tubes without letting the buyer know up front. Do I really need to go any further. I think not.

If you took my post personally I would consider taking a time out. LMAO

What you won't see from me is advice based on someone else's posts that may or may not be true. There are thousands of rumors going around online that many people believe to be true that are 100% false. This is one of them and it irks me when I see it because I know it's not true.

To state "Don't buy tubes from ebay. They are cheaper than other stores, but they are cheap for a good reason. They usually do not meet certain specs set by retailers, so they usually sell other working but lesser quality tubes to ebay sellers".

You are not staing one seller, some sellers, etc. You are stating what you are stating and that is "Ebay is a bad place to buy tubes" when nothing can be more from the truth. I've had better experiences on Ebay due to the feedback system than online stores over the years because on Ebay they feel the pain when a customer is not happy, Many online stores will simply forget about you and point you to their no return policy.

bonsaiguitar
01-06-2010, 01:55 PM
eBay doe have some good tube deals if you shop carefully. Choose a good seller and read the descriptions very carefully . E.g. if tube isn't explicitly described as "new", or at least "NOS", it is used. Used isn't necessarily bad; I bought a pair of used Amperex 'PQ' 6922's that have been working beautifully for almost 3 years -- I paid about 1/4 the retail price for a NOS copy ofthe same tube.

Here are a couple of eBay tube sellers who have treated me well ...

restless_nomad ... http://myworld.ebay.ca/restless_nomad/
riatla ... http://myworld.ebay.ca/riatla/A Canadian retail tube supplier is The Tube Store ... http://thetubestore.com/

A seller who also provides great background info about tubes is Tube World ... https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm

And here's another good source of toob technical data ... http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/ ... see HERE (http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6SL7) re. the 6SL7.

In fact I've purchased tubes from The Tube Store on Ebay a while back. Not sure if they're still there. Just another example. Don't think they would be happy to be lumped in with those bad Ebay sellers.

jrhymeammo
01-06-2010, 02:05 PM
Yes, guitar players use tube amps too. Yngwie Malmsteen, Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, they all use tube amps.

Alot of live performance and recording studios use tube equipments, and we all gotta love that. I think I'll hold back on comments, because I don't want to sound like an Elitest Jerk.

bonsaiguitar
01-06-2010, 02:34 PM
LOL I hear you. The tube -vs- solid state issue is a whole other story. :)

02audionoob
01-06-2010, 02:45 PM
Hey, bonsaiguitar - One thing you might want to have a look at...Notice the way in this forum we're pretty civil to each other. This is not really the kind of place where we use LMFAO and such a whole lot. It's just not our thing. These posts don't just fly by like a text message....they stay here indefinitely. They can be found with web searches. They often serve as a reference to people looking for this type of information.

Geoffcin
01-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Hey Poppa,

Don't buy tubes from ebay. They are cheaper than other stores, but they are cheap for a good reason. They usually do not meet certain specs set by retailers, so they usually sell other working but lesser quality tubes to ebay sellers.
Some here have good experience with ebay tubes, but I've read horror stories on expensive NOS tubes.
.

JRA

Repectable businessmen use ebay to sell too. The way to spot them is easy. Read the feedback. There's guys on ebay who sell literally thousands of tubes a year with close to 100% approval rating. This is the guy I bought my quad of "Gold Lion" KT88's.

http://myworld.ebay.com/jspht8338/

Over 16000 positive feedbacks, and not an unhappy customer in a year!

Ebay is not the "free-for-all' it used to be either. Buyer protection is in full force, especially if you pay via Paypal.

PS. He's got the tube you need too.

Geoffcin
01-06-2010, 03:05 PM
OK, I got rid of the manure posted here. Please guys, if you disagree remember that we're all on the same side.

Geeze, tube guys were supposed to be mellow!

jrhymeammo
01-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Well, I have to use tube equipments to help me round the edges.

OK, I should've posted to be careful buying tubes from ebay.
But I don't think I'll take back my statement below. But who knows, maybe this is just an excuse used by retailers to charge more... I think I'll just buy from who I feel comfortable with, and am sure everyone will do the same with their preferred medium.

They are cheaper than other stores, but they are cheap for a good reason. They usually do not meet certain specs set by retailers, so they usually sell other working but lesser quality tubes to ebay sellers.
Some here have good experience with ebay tubes, but I've read horror stories on expensive NOS tubes.

Well, let's just not get into the whole OTL, triode, pentode, or even tube phonostage.... or should I? Muhahahahahahhahaaa!

bonsaiguitar
01-06-2010, 05:22 PM
There are Ebay sellers selling B stock, refurbished, etc but they are required to post those facts in their auctions. If they do not their feedback will show it. An authorized dealer is an authorized dealer and there is no such thing as some dealers only getting poor quality because they are on Ebay. Doesn't matter if they are on Ebay or the moon. I own two businesses so I do know a little bit about how this works being a dealer myself for several manufacturers. Needs some guitar parts? JK I've also been on Ebay since the first week it started.

Geoffcin
01-06-2010, 05:31 PM
Bonsai; This is the last time I edit your reply for content. Next time I see ANY personal attack in your post, your post is going to get deleted.

poppachubby
01-06-2010, 08:58 PM
You can do your own research. I've already done enough being a guitar player for more years than some of you have been alive. Yes, guitar players use tube amps too. Yngwie Malmsteen, Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, they all use tube amps.

It's pretty easy to do research on Ebay though not all sellers use their storefront names like Eurotubes, Groovetubes, etc. If you see a seller with 100% feedback and he's sold say 2000 items I would say its safe to say he's not selling second hand tubes without letting the buyer know up front. Do I really need to go any further. I think not.

If you took my post personally I would consider taking a time out. LMAO

What you won't see from me is advice based on someone else's posts that may or may not be true. There are thousands of rumors going around online that many people believe to be true that are 100% false. This is one of them and it irks me when I see it because I know it's not true.

To state "Don't buy tubes from ebay. They are cheaper than other stores, but they are cheap for a good reason. They usually do not meet certain specs set by retailers, so they usually sell other working but lesser quality tubes to ebay sellers".

You are not staing one seller, some sellers, etc. You are stating what you are stating and that is "Ebay is a bad place to buy tubes" when nothing can be more from the truth. I've had better experiences on Ebay due to the feedback system than online stores over the years because on Ebay they feel the pain when a customer is not happy, Many online stores will simply forget about you and point you to their no return policy.

LMAO....indeed. The only one getting worked up around here is you. But you've probably been doing that longer than I've been alive.

I have been playing an Ampeg V4 for approx. 15 years. Is that "tubey" enough for you?

No one has taken your comments personally. Contribute or go write a book somewhere else and put all of your infinite wisdom to work helping to cure Cancer or world hunger.

bonsaiguitar
01-07-2010, 04:13 AM
LOL Yeah, I'm really worked up about this. :) Looks like the mod took it personal though. It's OK for your regular to tell me to put horse crap in my bonsai though. I see nothing has changed around here.

What does tubey have to do with buying tubes off Ebay? I've contriubuted quite a bit about buying tubes. You are all more concerned with putting the OUTSIDER down than dealing with the facts. Mods help me should I defend myself further. LMAO

poppachubby
01-07-2010, 04:41 AM
What does tubey have to do with buying tubes off Ebay?

Good question. I see you're one of those posters who is unable to scroll back through a conversation. At some point, someone made this comment...


You can do your own research. I've already done enough being a guitar player for more years than some of you have been alive. Yes, guitar players use tube amps too. Yngwie Malmsteen, Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, they all use tube amps.

I was wondering the exact same thing. What does it have to do with buying tubes off of Ebay? Oh hey, Eddie Van Halen uses a tubed Peavey, Ebay sellers are ok....

Anyhow, I'm sure you'll have something really witty to say about this too. Think I'll just stick to the subject now...

Geoffcin
01-07-2010, 05:15 AM
Bonsai;

I took nothing bet your off-color comments out of the post. Yes these are moderated boards, and we are usually very good about letting people have their say. However, if you don't get back on topic that will change.

Everyone else;

Let's get this thread back on track OK? I for one am interested where people can find quality tubes. I wish E-Stat would chime in, I think his amp takes like 24 tubes!

bonsaiguitar
01-07-2010, 06:29 AM
Agreed, and since we're all agreeing to do that, let us not forget the original post on this thread.

bonsaiguitar
01-07-2010, 06:32 AM
I prefer Electro Harmonix made in China myself. If you're lucky you'll get some 20-30 years old. Much mellower sound if that's what you are after.

Geoffcin
01-07-2010, 06:52 AM
For what he's looking for I prefer the Tung-Sol reissue. It's what I'm using in my amp;

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tung-Sol-6SL7-6SL7GT-pre-amp-tubes-Reissue-NEW_W0QQitemZ350213557836QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintag e_Electronics_R2?hash=item518a5ace4c

These were recommended to me by the experts at Pacific Valve (where my amp was bought)

poppachubby
01-07-2010, 07:42 AM
They're for a Golden Tube SE-40. I've read that just about every conceivable tube has a sound that someone prefers.

I like the Tung Sol too Geoff. What are your thoughts on new vs NOS?

Geoffcin
01-07-2010, 08:20 AM
They're for a Golden Tube SE-40. I've read that just about every conceivable tube has a sound that someone prefers.

I like the Tung Sol too Geoff. What are your thoughts on new vs NOS?

I wish I had some NOS to compare my re-issued to. From what I've heard you can pay quite a bit for NOS tubes, some even run into the thousands of $$$. With these pre-amp tubes not nearly so much, but your still going to pay a premium. What I can say for certain is that you want a matched pair for your amp. Tubes age, and if the original tube has a lot of hours on it the output will not match the replacement tube.

Also, your going to want to have the output tubes biased. I paid a tech to do my amp, but he showed me the correct procedure, so now I can do it myself. Nothing is going to affect the sound as mcuh as having the tubes in proper bias.

poppachubby
01-07-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm in the same boat. I have a tech doing some work. He is putting together the required cords for biasing and will show me how. For the cost, I'll probably try some other tubes once i get going.

Geoffcin
01-07-2010, 11:24 AM
I'm in the same boat. I have a tech doing some work. He is putting together the required cords for biasing and will show me how. For the cost, I'll probably try some other tubes once i get going.

What output tubes does the GT-40 use?

Feanor
01-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Chubbs,

Are you aware of Sonic Craft as a source for SE-40 components??
... http://www.soniccraft.com/upgrades/se40.htm

hifitommy
01-10-2010, 05:57 PM
upscale audio in upland california.

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/b6SL75691VT-229b_c_92.html

kevin runs a dealership out of his house and is the distributor for prima luna and mystere tubed amps.

perhaps that will help.

poppachubby
01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
What output tubes does the GT-40 use?

Sorry Geoff, 6SN7.


Chubbs,

Are you aware of Sonic Craft as a source for SE-40 components??

Yes Bill, long story short; the kit is more about "How To" than "Parts to Do It With". The amp isn't in horrible shape. We figured we could source the parts for 50-75 less than SC. We will be addressing everything they do, we know this by way of the Yahoo GT group.



perhaps that will help.

Are you suggesting I ship it to this guy Tommy?

hifitommy
01-10-2010, 10:13 PM
he seems to have what you are looking for. i figured you would contact him for tubes.

poppachubby
01-11-2010, 03:51 AM
he seems to have what you are looking for. i figured you would contact him for tubes.


Of course, of course. thank you Tommy.

Geoffcin
01-11-2010, 04:49 AM
Sorry Geoff, 6SN7.


I think your used EL4, or 6L6 for your output tubes. Good tubes and easy to get as a lot of guitar amps use the same kind.

Gastone
01-17-2010, 07:18 PM
Hey lads!

I need some help sourcing some 6SL7 tubes. Technically I need just one, but depending on the cost I will gladly roll both.
6SL7 = Russian 6H9C.
I'm using them in my power amp together with 6H8C (SSN7) and GU50 pentode.
I also use russian 6N6P in my tube DAC, as an anode follower, and it sounds great :smile5:

poppachubby
03-01-2010, 04:58 AM
Hey guys. Looks like I'm just about ready to roll my tubes. First, I'll start with the 6SN7's. I live only an hour's drive from The Tube Store. Here's my first choice, any thoughts?

http://thetubestore.com/eh-6sn7g.html

poppachubby
10-13-2010, 02:34 PM
...tommorrow I am going to stop into the Tube Store and buy myself 3 matched pairs of these bad boys. Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR. They are one of the better production tubes being made right now. I'm pretty pumped and excited to see how the SE40 responds. The Sovteks that are in it have seen better days.

I may get crazy and splurge for the Winged C SED type...we'll see.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/thetubestore_2124_75373279

Poultrygeist
10-14-2010, 03:51 AM
I've bought lots of tubes on ebay without a problem. I especially like the Russian tube dealers who have some great deals on their NOS tubes. Russia unlike many countries never stopped tube production as they are still used in their military electronics.

atomicAdam
10-14-2010, 07:51 AM
I've bought lots of tubes on ebay without a problem. I especially like the Russian tube dealers who have some great deals on their NOS tubes. Russia unlike many countries never stopped tube production as they are still used in their military electronics.

PC - let us know how it goes. I'm glad you are enjoying that GT.

Geoffcin
10-14-2010, 11:10 AM
Hey, I just bought a quad of Sylvania 6SN7 GTB's

http://i.ebayimg.com/16/!B4o5ldwCWk~$(KGrHqJ,!hwEycbhB1UFBMqmR1B+mQ~~_12.J PG

If anyone needs a pair let me know, I only need two.

pixelthis
10-14-2010, 11:54 AM
I've bought lots of tubes on ebay without a problem. I especially like the Russian tube dealers who have some great deals on their NOS tubes. Russia unlike many countries never stopped tube production as they are still used in their military electronics.

Actually I HEARD THAT tube preoduction did cease after the unpleasantness
for awhile, the tubes that were coming to market were being looted by starving Soviet
officers. There were also huge stocks in the former eastern block.
WAIT until the next war, you should be able to dig all of the antique stuff you
want from grounded (shot down) Migs.
Or you can join the 21st century and buy some solid state gear.
Never have to change out the valves in those.:1:

hifitommy
10-14-2010, 12:36 PM
"Or you can join the 21st century and buy some solid state gear."

another revealing comment by the BRILLIANT PIXEL ! most of us have gone away from solid state BACK to tubes for superior sound. and what happens when a transistor goes bad, do YOU change it ?

Geoffcin
10-14-2010, 02:06 PM
Just pix throwing grenades again and hoping someone will fall on it.

Actually they haven't used tubes in MiG aircraft since the 60's so there's no chance of that happening. Surprisingly though the British continued to make military grade tubes into the 80's. A lot of their old military kit was sold to the "colonies" after WWII and there was a decent market for replacement parts for a long time.

Geoffcin
10-14-2010, 03:44 PM
Well I'm listening to my amp with the new (old) Sylvania tubes and it's sounding real fine!

poppachubby
10-14-2010, 05:35 PM
Well I'm listening to my amp with the new (old) Sylvania tubes and it's sounding real fine!


Geoff, those are what I use in my SE40!! Mine have the green writing. They are excellent for bottom end. I bought 3 matched pairs and gave my tech a pair, so I am good for some time. Is it your Fisher that requires those?

Anyhow, I bought myself 3 matched pairs of the Tung Sols. After a long converation with Jon at The Tube Store, he convinced me to stick with my original decision. I was going to "upgrade" to Winged C's, but apparently these Tung Sol's are THE tube when it comes to an all around 6L6. Of course, this is all in the realm of the blue collar man, if one wants to spend upwards of $100/pair...sonic bliss awaits.

I also picked up a 1000V, shock proof slotted screwdriver for biasing.

Hey Pix, you can't imagine how good my rig sounds...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5082182099_bd90878856_z.jpg

Geoffcin
10-14-2010, 06:15 PM
Nice score. Nothing like a new set of output tubes to make your speaker sing!

Funny, that is EXACTLY what I wrote as my #1 difference between these Sylvania's and the Tung-Sol that they replaced. Just for kicks I put on Queens "Another one bites the dust" and the bass seemed to be a bit more forward than with the Tung-Sol. Both tubes are tight and well defined in the bass.

I'm up in the air on what to roll next. I was thinking on a nice pair of NOS Bugle Boy 12AX7....

poppachubby
10-15-2010, 01:09 AM
I have original Mullards in my EICO, 12AX7 and a 6X4. Excellent tubes. I have another pair of NOS GE's which I switch in only occasionaly. Blackraven is a bit of a 12AX7 pro if you want some insight.

poppachubby
10-15-2010, 01:27 AM
PC - let us know how it goes. I'm glad you are enjoying that GT.


Adam I will be forever in your debt, the Golden Tube is my pride and joy. For an everyday amp it's more than ideal, and as far as reference goes, I am knocking at the door. I'm hoping these new tubes will help squeeze some more detail out of an already detailed amp.

BTW, did you ever try running it in negative feedback mode? I have it in zero mode but I was wondering how it would sound. I may try it out while I am inside biasing. I will have to go back in after a week or so anyhow, so I can change it back. It's just a jumper that changes it, same with the mono/stereo option.

As I have told you before, my long term goal will be to get another SE-40 and run them both in mono. Can you imagine 80watts a side of Golden Tube-iness?!? Actually my tech bought himself an SE40 after seeing how great mine is, maybe he will sell down the road.

Once I do that, I would want to bust into the world of Electrostats. That will be it for me once I hit that mark, at least for my back end...hehhe.

Actually, I doubt I will get rid of my Ariston. Rather, I think I will eventually put a super fantastic arm/cart on it and call it a day.

Geoffcin
10-15-2010, 02:35 AM
It might be worth it to identify all your old tubes. There's gold in them there tubes!

http://cgi.ebay.com/OUTRAGEOUS-5751-SYLVANIA-CV4017-12AX7-BLACK-3-Mica-PAIR-/230512338405?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35ab9b25e5

poppachubby
10-15-2010, 02:44 AM
Wow. Indeed NOS are expensive but you get what you pay for. Hav eyou seen the TJ Music tubes Geoff? They are well regarded. Theres a guy at AK who's ears and gear I trust, he gave them rave reviews as compared to NOS tubes.

http://grantfidelity.com/site/TJ_Full_Music_12AX7

pixelthis
10-15-2010, 01:01 PM
"Or you can join the 21st century and buy some solid state gear."

another revealing comment by the BRILLIANT PIXEL ! most of us have gone away from solid state BACK to tubes for superior sound. and what happens when a transistor goes bad, do YOU change it ?

Its all your imagination old sot, a transistor will outlive a tube by thousands of years.
AND people who hate the fantasy world occupied by tube worshipers will be here long
after they are gone, just a matter of time.
PERHAPS you will learn the difference between distortion and accurate sound.
SOMEDAY.:1:

pixelthis
10-15-2010, 01:03 PM
[QUOTE=Geoffcin]Just pix throwing grenades again and hoping someone will fall on it.

Actually they haven't used tubes in MiG aircraft since the 60's so there's no chance of that happening. Surprisingly though the British continued to make military grade tubes into the 80's. A lot of their old military kit was sold to the "colonies" after WWII and there was a decent market for replacement parts for a long time.

:1:

pixelthis
10-15-2010, 01:05 PM
Well I'm listening to my amp with the new (old) Sylvania tubes and it's sounding real fine!

doing that while you run the underwear over the old washboard, eh?
Gonna put the spats on and head for Tuxedo Junction later on?:1:

Geoffcin
10-16-2010, 06:07 AM
Why Pix, you've been peaking in my windows again?

JoeE SP9
10-16-2010, 08:23 AM
I used to think and act like Pix. Then I realized I didn't know everything. That's called growing up.

Listening to some tube gear years ago as a fresh BS E.E. was a real ear opener. I learned two things that day; one, "Specs aren't everything" and two, "Trust your ears". One has to listen with an open mind. If your mind is already made up you'll hear only what you want to hear. Of course, this is dependant on having sufficient hearing acuity.

I sometimes wonder if having ears that can't hear what tubes bring to reproduced sound is the same as being intellectually challenged. "Special people" seem to always be quite happy. Probably because they don't realize what they are missing.

hifitommy
10-17-2010, 10:19 AM
THANK YOU JOE. i may have overstated the case that we all went back to tubes but pixi likes to pish in the snow so everyone can see. tubes MIGHT make sense to him if he ever took the time to listen to some audio research or VTL gear.

its not as if i dont use ss gear. if one checks my profile whic references this:

http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/588.html

E-Stat
10-18-2010, 06:36 AM
I used to think and act like Pix. Then I realized I didn't know everything. That's called growing up.
I learned that lesson in 1974 when I heard Audio Research gear compared with Harmon-Kardon and Crown having lower THD specs on Magneplanar Tympanis. He's not there yet. :)

rw

JoeE SP9
10-18-2010, 10:17 AM
I think there are several stages to this addiction.

Discovery: This is when you hear decent audio for the first time. You then decide you want this for yourself.
Collection: This is when you start collecting anything and everything pertaining to audio. Many infected people never get past this stage. They are the ones with 42 pair of speakers they keep switching back and forth with the 24 different receivers they own.
Technical: Frequently this is simultaneous with “Collection”. Numbers and specs become all important at this stage. An obsession with lower distortion figures and S/N ratio are typical symptoms.
Maturity: The final stage of “Audiophilia Nervosa”. At this point the infected person puts together one really good system. Specs although taken into consideration are just not that important. This system has only one aim; to reproduce music. All the component parts have been selected because to the user they sound better. They could be tubed, solid state or driven by hamsters in a cage. The resulting sound is what matters.Unfortunately many of the infected get stuck in stage 2 or 3. In stage 2 they are very enthusiastic and fun to be around. Those stuck in stage 3 spend most of their time telling others what they can and can't hear. Those people are not fun.

Stage 4 victims are easy to identify. They almost never have a receiver. They have had the same gear for a while. They don't have multiple sets of anything. They talk about what they listen to and how it sounds.

audio amateur
10-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Collection: This is when you start collecting anything and everything pertaining to audio. Many infected people never get past this stage. They are the ones with 42 pair of crappy speakers they keep switching back and forth with the 24 different receivers they own.
I hope not too many people here read this:)

JoeE SP9
10-18-2010, 12:34 PM
I'll go back and edit out the word "crappy".:biggrin5:

E-Stat
10-18-2010, 01:04 PM
Collection: This is when you start collecting anything and everything pertaining to audio. Many infected people never get past this stage. They are the ones with 42 pair of speakers they keep switching back and forth with the 24 different receivers they own.
Would this (http://www.myspace.com/cpdirtysouth/photos/50543318) system be indicative of the type? ;)

rw

Geoffcin
10-18-2010, 01:52 PM
Let's just stick to "Tube help" here and leave the denegration of other peoples audio choices to another thread.

Geoffcin
10-18-2010, 01:56 PM
Hey, just won a pair of NOS Phillips 7025's on Ebay!

Going to switch out my 12AX7's and see if there's any difference.

poppachubby
10-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Hey, just won a pair of NOS Phillips 7025's on Ebay!

Going to switch out my 12AX7's and see if there's any difference.

Geoff do you use any 6L6/5881's?

Geoffcin
10-18-2010, 05:26 PM
Geoff do you use any 6L6/5881's?

No, my integrated uses KT88 output tubes right now, but it can use KT90's or 6550's. The Fisher 500c uses the Electro Harmonix 7591a output tubes.

JoeE SP9
10-18-2010, 08:46 PM
UPS delivered the tubes for my MKIII's Friday. Two matched pair's of Tung Sol 6550's and four Phillips JAN 6922's. Put in all the new tubes. Connected them to some Minimus 7's. Set the bias and let them "burn in" a little. No signal applied. Saturday afternoon I install them in my room, warm them up,.set the bias and play some music.

They have about 20 hours on them now and have improved slightly since Saturday.
Tubes and "stats":thumbsup:

audio amateur
10-19-2010, 12:12 AM
Would this (http://www.myspace.com/cpdirtysouth/photos/50543318) system be indicative of the type? ;)

rw
loooool, too funny!

poppachubby
10-19-2010, 02:30 AM
loooool, too funny!

Indeed, the choice of drapes really helps to bring out the gear.

audio amateur
10-19-2010, 02:38 AM
Indeed, the choice of drapes really helps to bring out the gear.
I liked E-Stat's post as a whole, not just the picture:) But the picture is good too

Dude, im still waiting on those cables :(

poppachubby
10-19-2010, 02:43 AM
I liked E-Stat's post as a whole, not just the picture:) But the picture is good too

Dude, im still waiting on those cables :(

Tony I've been too busy to even think about those cables. Tell you what, once I am done my current audio projects, including mounting a new tonearm, you and I will look at what we want to do.

We'll evaluate which design we want to use, components, etc. From there we'll drum up the cost (parts no labour of course :wink5: ) and get it done.

I have been very busy with my job/family and what time I have after that has been limited.

Don't you feel bad for me> Haha. Anyhow, let's PM and get the thread back on topic.

poppachubby
10-19-2010, 02:50 AM
UPS delivered the tubes for my MKIII's Friday. Two matched pair's of Tung Sol 6550's and four Phillips JAN 6922's. Put in all the new tubes. Connected them to some Minimus 7's. Set the bias and let them "burn in" a little. No signal applied. Saturday afternoon I install them in my room, warm them up,.set the bias and play some music.

They have about 20 hours on them now and have improved slightly since Saturday.
Tubes and "stats":thumbsup:

Sounds good Joe. I wound up having an issue with a couple of pots. Thought I was going to have to change the resistance to add more negative bias, but turned out ok. The SE40 can be a PITA when it wants to be.

I guess the new rage for 6L6 users is an 80's made Russian tube...6P3S-EV. They can be bought NOS overseas or from Jim McShane in Illinois. They have the octal coin base and fit a 6L6 socket. For 6 unmatched tubes, fully inspected by Jim the price would be roughly $75. Not bad for a tube people are claiming sound close to the old RCA blackplates.

I think I will buy a set just based on price, and before everyone in the world figures it out, and stocks are depleted.

I wanted to give my audio brothers a head start here at AR.

"Audio brothers, may we bond together and die by the audio sword which we have sworn to protect!" :out:

Geoffcin
10-19-2010, 08:49 AM
Poppa;

They make a "Gold Lion" re-issue of the KT66 tube you can use. http://i.ebayimg.com/19/!B2LFePQ!mk~$(KGrHqIOKj4E)cgidzV(BMhZEvMSRg~~_3.JP G

http://cgi.ebay.com/Factory-Matched-Quad-Gold-Lion-Genalex-KT66-KT-66-/130429068788?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5e2da5f4

The Gold Lion 88's that I use have great bass and extended highs. Really a premium tube.

JoeE SP9
10-19-2010, 11:28 AM
When I rebuilt my MKIII's I used a technique one of my old Professors taught.

Design and build to last forever. Use the best parts you can get.

The bias pots are sealed Mil spec. The resisters are Vishay and Holco. The caps are Solen and Wondercaps. All the point to point wiring is Teflon coated Silver. WBT and Cardas are used for input ouput connectors and the ceramic tube sockets have Gold plated pins..

The Tung Sols seem to be broken in. The sound is very slightly forward with a sweet top end.

Maybe I'll try some rolling with the 6922's and see what happens.

poppachubby
10-19-2010, 12:45 PM
Poppa;

They make a "Gold Lion" re-issue of the KT66 tube you can use. http://cgi.ebay.com/Factory-Matched-Quad-Gold-Lion-Genalex-KT66-KT-66-/130429068788?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5e2da5f4

The Gold Lion 88's that I use have great bass and extended highs. Really a premium tube.

Those look gorgeous Geoff. It's a very simple mod on my SE40 to adapt the KT's, I have read plenty about it at the GTA Yahoo group. I am not eager at this point to try it.

One thing I will try is the 6SN7 to 6SL7 mod. This is to increase the input gain, mostly with a direct, variable source in mind, I keep toying with the idea of banishing digital from my main system, if I do, that's a mod I would like to try.



The Tung Sols seem to be broken in. The sound is very slightly forward with a sweet top end.

I can't believe what an improvement mine have made Joe. Quieter background with improved seperation between instruments. You're right about that high end...Sa-weeee-yit.

I've got some Roy Hargrove on, the harder he blows, the better it sounds. Just superb. 100% engaging sound.

Did you see that I also bought a Moth MKI tonearm? I got the basic model without the Incognito rewire or stainless weight. However, I can upgrade to those things later. After mounting the tonearm, I think I will be set for sometime. I may build some Cardas recipe silver cables (thanks to your help!).

BTW, off topic here but I am considering a pair of Frugal Horns. Local sale so I will be auditioing them with my SE40. I'm pumped and hope that they are everything promised. They were hand built by Dave Dulgos at Planet_10HiFi (http://www.planet10-hifi.com/). I know you're not a big horn fan, but these babies look sweet. They contain Fostex enABLEd drivers.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5097239359_694d3f3436_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5097837274_d62737221c_z.jpg

Joe I also took in my EICO HF85 for a full upgrade/mod. I am having a Lipschitz curve put in the RIAA stage. The Lipshcitz white paper on this topic has been widely considered one of the best ever wrote. Companies like Lehmann and PSAudio have used his ideas when it came to formualating their stages. When it's all said and done I think I will be EXACTLY where I want to. No more "upgrades", nothing but buying LPs and chillin. Count me in as stage 4 nervosa please.

JoeE SP9
10-19-2010, 07:36 PM
Gee Pops! All you need now is another SE-40 so you can bridge them. The you can get the ESL's you know you want. You'vre got one foot in the door of stage 4. You'll have the other one in the door soon. Come on in the waters fine.

Check the link for a 120Watt mono block kit based on the Dyna MKIII. I'm giving it serious thought. Having the bridged Crowns for my subs has made me want more power for my stat's.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/new.htm

poppachubby
10-19-2010, 07:57 PM
Gee Pops! All you need now is another SE-40 so you can bridge them. The you can get the ESL's you know you want. You'vre got one foot in the door of stage 4. You'll have the other one in the door soon. Come on in the waters fine.

Check the link for a 120Watt mono block kit based on the Dyna MKIII. I'm giving it serious thought. Having the bridged Crowns for my subs has made me want more power for my stat's.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/new.htm


Yep, my long term goal is to add another SE40. They have an internal jumper, bridgeable for mono. It's funny because after working on mine, and then hearing it in his system for a few days, my tube tech bought himself an SE40. I should be able to pry it out of his hands, when I am ready with the cash.

OK I am gonna listen to a couple more sides and then beddy byes.

Night joe!

hifitommy
10-19-2010, 08:52 PM
as much as we all love tubes, 'stats do better with SS. an odyssey khartago or an adcom 5500 will serve you just fine for those acoustats joe.

poppachubby
10-20-2010, 12:57 AM
Gee Pops! All you need now is another SE-40 so you can bridge them. The you can get the ESL's you know you want. You'vre got one foot in the door of stage 4. You'll have the other one in the door soon. Come on in the waters fine.

Check the link for a 120Watt mono block kit based on the Dyna MKIII. I'm giving it serious thought. Having the bridged Crowns for my subs has made me want more power for my stat's.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/new.htm


http://www.tubes4hifi.com/M-125-2run.jpg

Joe I had some time to pine over your link. Those do look lovely! How much do you think they'll want?

When I was at The Tube Store, I was chattin with the guys about learning tube DIY and troubleshooting, etc. They rec'd a couple books and suggested that a kit would be the best way to start.

However, since I am half way to dual mono, i think I will first go with another GT SE40. They lend themselves to dual mono with individual bias for each socket. You can dial them in and keep that tolerance nice and tight.

Joe, you ever listen to any Harrison/Blanchard? They were Jazz Messengers in the 80's i believe and I think it was Blanchard who had a seat in Hampton's touring band. I bought 3 minty LPs, and I love them all. I'm not sure how many they cut as a duo, but they eventually went their own ways. I would like to own them all. They really mix up the styles nicely, and bring a New Orleans vibe to it.

I plan to rip them if you would like a copy.

Anyhow, yes ESL's would be grand!! There's a brand of 'stat that Rich was on about some time ago. I think he heard them at a show. I forget the name but I think it had "Prince" or "King" in the title. They are supposedly the best for price/performance.

I am anxiously awaiting my Frugal horn audition. Perhaps it's a horn life for me. I will also be auditioning a pair of 3A Model 360. These are a 3-way floor stander. My 3A's are superb but I have to supplement the bass.

tube fan
10-20-2010, 05:42 AM
"Vintage tube services" is the best source for NOS tubes IMO. andy Bowman does a great job selecting the best tubes.

Geoffcin
10-20-2010, 06:04 AM
Get out the marshmellows for that pair of monos!

Feanor
10-20-2010, 06:53 AM
Gee Pops! All you need now is another SE-40 so you can bridge them. The you can get the ESL's you know you want. You'vre got one foot in the door of stage 4. You'll have the other one in the door soon. Come on in the waters fine.

Check the link for a 120Watt mono block kit based on the Dyna MKIII. I'm giving it serious thought. Having the bridged Crowns for my subs has made me want more power for my stat's.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/new.htm
Wow! Those are bee-you-ts.

Probably a bit rich for my blood, though. I'm targetting a "ST-120" from Bob Latino (http://bob01605.50webs.com/); 60 wpc should do it at my listening levels. I doubt a tube unit like this would approach the resolution and authentic sound of my current class D amp -- but I would love to find out for sure.

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/VTA120top.JPG

Geoffcin
10-20-2010, 07:30 AM
Before I bought my amp I came within a hair's breath of buying one of his ST-120 kits. The build quailty is fist rate, and his test measurments are phenominal; a 10kHz square wave that is good as any Krell!

JoeE SP9
10-20-2010, 09:16 AM
I looked at those. They however are not the mono blocks I was speaking of.


The ones below are. Also from Tubes 4 HFi


125 Watts in Pentode mode 65 Watts in Triode mode.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/JoeESP9/M-125-2run.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/JoeESP9/M-125-1280.jpg

E-Stat
10-20-2010, 02:05 PM
as much as we all love tubes, 'stats do better with SS.
Hmmm. I find that VTL MB-450 monoblocks with 600 watts of power supplied by 500 joules of power supply perform quite well with either my former 2+2s or the current Sound Lab U-1s.

rw

hifitommy
10-20-2010, 02:58 PM
well ralph,

we dont all have those resources. you see joe has mark IIIs and poppa has golden tube. not quite VTL/ARC territory.

the stereophile show years ago near LAX showed ML statements driven by a SEA of VTL tube amps/power suppplies.

BIG tube power is wonderful for all kinds of things.

E-Stat
10-20-2010, 03:10 PM
loooool, too funny!
The picture requires no further commentary. :)

rw

E-Stat
10-20-2010, 03:19 PM
we dont all have those resources
Sorry, I didn't consider a budget qualifier in your comments. First generation ST-150s at half that power can be found used for around $2k and would offer similar magic.

rw

Geoffcin
10-20-2010, 04:22 PM
After playing with many amps of both high and low power I'm not convinced that more power is always better. Certainly you need enough to have your speaker play at your preferred listening level, and also with enough headroom so that it doesn't clip.

I rarely listen above 90dB anymore, so if my amp can reach that volume without clipping then it will be OK for most of my listening. Turns out that's about 10w with my speakers, and with an amp with a RMS power of 70w it can reach 97 dB, so I have all the headroom I need.

Poultrygeist
10-21-2010, 04:03 AM
Those Frugal Horns are highly efficient and gain a db or so mechanically for their back loaded horn design. You can drive them with a hand full of watts but extra headroom is always welcome. Never heard the Frugals but I still lust after the HS Horns which are a similar design. If you get the Frugals you could end up rolling amps instead of tubes.

Be forewarned, once you enter the realm of the full range driver you may never return.

Geoffcin
10-21-2010, 08:50 AM
Hey anyone ever see or hear one of these new KT88's in person?
http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!B0ltj+!!Wk~$(KGrHqJ,!h!Ew5I(pyeSBM,-31hP(w~~_3.JPG

tube fan
10-21-2010, 09:22 PM
After playing with many amps of both high and low power I'm not convinced that more power is always better. Certainly you need enough to have your speaker play at your preferred listening level, and also with enough headroom so that it doesn't clip.

I rarely listen above 90dB anymore, so if my amp can reach that volume without clipping then it will be OK for most of my listening. Turns out that's about 10w with my speakers, and with an amp with a RMS power of 70w it can reach 97 dB, so I have all the headroom I need.

I agree 100% with this. My AR D70 tube amp can drive both my SC IV and Fulton J speakers to live levels. Tube watts are MUCH more powerful than SS amps.

JoeE SP9
10-21-2010, 10:11 PM
as much as we all love tubes, 'stats do better with SS. an odyssey khartago or an adcom 5500 will serve you just fine for those acoustats joe.

I've never had a Khartago to check out. Adcom GFA-535, 545, 555, Hafler DH-200, DH-500 and Crown XLS402 have been tried on my stats. Those are amps I either have now or owned in the past. One buddy brought his Levinson and another brought his Krell KSA. The MKIII's although just marginally powerful enough, sound better than any of the SS amps, at least to me they do..

Tube driven stats! That's for me.

PC: I anticipate the cost of those mono blocks in kit form to be around $1K each. The 60 Watt ones with 2 6550's are ~$500..

Geoffcin
10-22-2010, 03:37 AM
I agree 100% with this. My AR D70 tube amp can drive both my SC IV and Fulton J speakers to live levels. Tube watts are MUCH more powerful than SS amps.

I've got a theory about that, and it has to do with current flow and clipping. Sound is all about dynamic expression and it seems to me that with all of the current (pun?) measurments available, save for the gross slew capabilities, it's hard to get a solid number on it. Certainly anyone who has ever heard a tube amp scraches their head as to why it sounds so "powerful" for the wattage compared to SS.

hifitommy
10-22-2010, 05:00 AM
i agree that tube watts are bigger sounding than ss ones. big tube amps are usually hideously expensive however.

JoeE SP9
10-22-2010, 05:41 AM
Yes they are hideously expensive. That's why I'm going to try a Class D amp like Feanor built.

Feanor:
Have you changed your mind about it? Do you have any new revelations?

Feanor
10-22-2010, 06:59 AM
Yes they are hideously expensive. That's why I'm going to try a Class D amp like Feanor built.

Feanor:
Have you changed your mind about it? Do you have any new revelations?
Joe, I'm still like the CDA SDS-258 a lot; I'm pretty certain that I'll keep them and flog my Monarchy SM-70 Pros.

But bear in mind that I'm a classical listener and an accuracy lover. This is where (for anything close to the $) the SDS is a huge winner. Clean, very transparent highs; lots of air throughout the range; solid bass throughout that range. Overall the most authentic instrument timbres that I've heard in my system. No s/s "nasties"; no harshness or glare (that isn't on the recording) and no grain.

This said, I doubt it's amp that is likely to appeal to hard-core tube lovers. Despite the CDA's assertion that they are "tube like", I don't feel there's a lot of the "warmth, body, and depth" as these terms are often attributed to tubes. (Personally I suspect that these tube qualities are largely artifacts, i.e. distortion, albeit pleasant ones.)

By the way, the Monarchys have some tube qualities, especially tube "body". They might be described as warm by some but I feel it is a matter of being a bit dark or recessed in the lower treble. However even before I got the CDA unit I was beginning to feel that I was missing something with the Monarchy -- I realized that it was the authenticity of timbre I'm getting with the new amp.

http://classdaudio.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/s/d/sds-258.jpg

poppachubby
11-25-2010, 02:26 AM
It's official!! My set of Psvane 12AX7's shipped out yesterday. I am thrilled about these and can't wait to get them. I ordered 5 for my EICO. 2 for the low gain, 2 for the high gain and 1 for the third stage. I think I may replace my rectifier tube also, but my Mullard does a nice job.

I made a deal with Grant Fidelity to review these. I'll post some pics when they arrive.

http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang_Pavane_Psvane_T_Series_tubes


http://grantfidelity.com/site/files/12ax7T_600.jpg

poppachubby
11-30-2010, 05:27 PM
Hey fellas, my Shuguang Psvane 12AX7's have arrived. Talk about excitement!! I must discuss with Ian Grant about burn in as they recommend 100 hours. I will be reviewing them for AR. Boo ya!!!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5221956709_e9cc882ce9_z.jpg

hifitommy
11-30-2010, 05:34 PM
how much?

poppachubby
11-30-2010, 11:08 PM
how much?


http://grantfidelity.com/site/catalog/98/pavane_psvane_reference_tseries

poppachubby
12-03-2010, 06:31 PM
OK, I have met the required burn in time...

...whoa!!

All 12AX7 users should really give these a thought for the next roll. The transparency is incredible. Simply put, I am having an absolute blast. Amazing value.

My P-Funk hasn't sounded this good...ever.

I've got a string attached to my thing, and if you pull my string, I can do my thing, underwater...suckas!

frenchmon
12-03-2010, 07:27 PM
OK, I have met the required burn in time...

...whoa!!

All 12AX7 users should really give these a thought for the next roll. The transparency is incredible. Simply put, I am having an absolute blast. Amazing value.

My P-Funk hasn't sounded this good...ever.

I've got a string attached to my thing, and if you pull my string, I can do my thing, underwater...suckas!

"There once was a man from Peru. Who went to sleep in his canoe. He was dreaming of Venus, And took out his penis ,And woke up with a handfull of goo
Put your foot on the rock! OK bye!
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, aiii! "

My man...you got that one by the Funkadelics?

woofersus
12-03-2010, 08:17 PM
Those are nice looking too. I'll have to try some in one of the melody amps i carry sometime.

poppachubby
12-04-2010, 01:56 AM
Everybody funkin but they don't know how...Fool and the gang?

Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, snorting some THC
Along came a spider, sat down beside her and said...
"what's in the bag biatch?"
Laughin at ya!!

frenchmon
12-04-2010, 04:57 AM
Everybody funkin but they don't know how...Fool and the gang?

Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, snorting some THC
Along came a spider, sat down beside her and said...
"what's in the bag biatch?"
Laughin at ya!!


lol...My Man!

frenchmon
12-04-2010, 04:59 AM
Everybody funkin but they don't know how...should have saw the bull when he funked the cow....

Funkadelics....