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thekid
01-03-2010, 07:25 AM
Looking through the paper this morning I saw the usually "Best of 2009" story for a variety of things such as movies, cars etc. and thought maybe we should do the same here. please feel free to list your best or Top new additions that you made to your audio/video system(s) in 2009.

I will get it started by listing my top 5 though these are in no particular order;

Marantz 2245/KLH 5 Receiver/Speaker Combo
Kenwood KA 8100/KT 8300 Amp/tuner Combo
Polk Monitor 10B speakers
Denon DCD1800/Nikko NR 819 CD player/Receiver combo
Luxman R1050 receiver

poppachubby
01-03-2010, 08:10 AM
Technics SL-Q2 w/ Ortofon 2M Red

http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/3/36969/ps_technics_sl_q3_gr2.jpg

Kenwood Basic C1

http://www.ultraelectronicactive.com/Media/Equip/VintageAmplifiers/Kenwood-C1-Control-Amp.jpg

DIY Solid Core cabling

http://forums.audioreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6411&stc=1&d=1260048771

Creative Audigy Platinum 24bit soundcard

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/images/9/97/Audigy_Platinum.jpg

Dynaco A25 / Angstrom Modular Three

http://www.praudio.co.uk/images/loudspeakers/dynaco_a25.jpg

http://www.angstromloudspeakers.com/Images/Modular/ModularThreeBlkPair.jpg

LeRoy
01-03-2010, 09:57 AM
Mordaunt Short Avant 902i bookshelf speakers
Mordaunt Short Aviano 2 bookshelf speakers
Musical Fidelity X-RAY CDP
Musical Fidelity Triple X power supply
Rega Brio 3 Integrated Amp

audio amateur
01-03-2010, 10:15 AM
Rotel RA-810 amp
Toshiba TT from '80s (that I have yet to test)
My newly finished DIY speakers

Finally an Arcam CD73 CDP and Kef iQ5 SE's (although these are not for myself)

poppachubby
01-03-2010, 10:24 AM
My newly finished DIY speakers



What? No pics or info?

02audionoob
01-03-2010, 10:26 AM
The best of 2009 for me...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/4241670280_90db7c410e.jpg

ryanianmckinnon
01-03-2010, 11:55 AM
this is the best of what i got in 2009

Worf101
01-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Besides my Oppo BluRay I'd have to say these here!

My vintage ADS 1290's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Worf101/Audio%20Gear/ADS-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Worf101/Audio%20Gear/ADS-4.jpg

Worf

thekid
01-03-2010, 03:01 PM
There is some great gear showing up here and I am glad to see so many pics of the gear.

Worf- Those ADS look great!
Poppa- Glad to see you were able to keep the original grill cloth on the A-25's. I had to replace it on mine due to a mold issue which seems to be a common problem with them.
02-Nice clean little pre-amp

recoveryone
01-03-2010, 03:10 PM
Here's my new addiction for 09

Vizio VF550M
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5816/vf550m.jpg

And the Pioneer BD120 player
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2082/pioneerbdp120.jpg

frahengeo
01-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Here are mine:

The Oppo Blu-ray: Fast loading times, combined with ease of use.

6526

Then my Denon AV Processor: A tad bit more complicated

6527

poppachubby
01-03-2010, 03:19 PM
Besides my Oppo BluRay...

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x25/recruit1971/Blu-ray-BDP-83SE_leftangle_hr.jpg
Worf


Damn Worf, I have Oppo envy. You have the SE right?

audio amateur
01-03-2010, 03:34 PM
What? No pics or info?
Hey, I just wrote an update in the original thread. I've been with my family, so little time for the forums. I'll try to get some pics and impression by tomorrow.

jrhymeammo
01-03-2010, 03:50 PM
-Transfiguration Temper Supreme
-Brines Acoustics FB-20
-Lyra Clavis
-Rega RB-250 modded
-Musical Fidelity V8 X-Can
-Aune Mini USB DAC
-TTWeight Clamps and Periphery ring
-K&K Premium SUT
-Pinnacle Baby Boomer Plus
-Cambre 3 Shelve rack
-Tim Rawson Aleph 5 monoblocks
-Clearaudio Stability headshell
-Tubes
-LP
-Various tweaks and others I cannot remember.

JRA

oh yeah, MMG with modded crossovers. One of the speakers Mylar was damaged, but I got good understanding of how they sound. Anyone interested in a MMG for your center-channel?

jrhymeammo
01-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Besides my Oppo BluRay I'd have to say these here!

My vintage ADS 1290's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Worf101/Audio%20Gear/ADS-1.jpg


Worf

Wow, they look great nude!!!!
Without knowing anything, they look fairly easy to drive. Perhaps looks can be deceiving, but how do they respond?

Very cool
JRA

bobsticks
01-03-2010, 06:05 PM
Not a lot of new pickups in 2009 but the Cambridge Audio DV89 for a secondary system is a keeper...does everything relatively well and nothing poorly...

http://www.cambridge-audio.us/media/20081014_160647_dvd89.jpg

Worf101
01-04-2010, 04:49 AM
Damn Worf, I have Oppo envy. You have the SE right?
I appreciate the pic! No, I've just the basic model. IF I could find any SACD's or DVD-A's I want I might have gone that route. But I'm happy with the gear as it is.

jrhymeammo, as to the 1290's they're easy to drive and have great, tight bass. First mains I can drive in 2 channel mode and not feel the need for a sub-woofer, those dual 8's do the job. Only draw back is that I blew a tweet using Audessey after I first got them. Had to set em up all by ear after that.

Worf

Hyfi
01-04-2010, 05:19 AM
Most of what is now in my signature.

VAC CLA-1 MkII
Counterpoint NPS-400
Clearfield Continental Speakers
Synergistic ICs
Synergistic Speaker Cable

I put $200 into the amp to repair and re tube, $100 to re tube the Pre, and an initial $300 for all the above.

$600 for close to 15K of awesome gear may be the best of 2009 anywhere.

bobsticks
01-04-2010, 07:22 AM
Most of what is now in my signature.

VAC CLA-1 MkII
Counterpoint NPS-400
Clearfield Continental Speakers
Synergistic ICs
Synergistic Speaker Cable

I put $200 into the amp to repair and re tube, $100 to re tube the Pre, and an initial $300 for all the above.

$600 for close to 15K of awesome gear may be the best of 2009 anywhere.

Lol, yeah...I was just thinking that you had a much better 2009 than I did...

GMichael
01-04-2010, 08:01 AM
Wow! Lots of great audio gear.
Unfortunately, I have nothing to add. I acquired no new audio equipment in 2009. But it was still a great year. I hope this year goes as well as 09. (but some new audio gear sure would be nice)

Feanor
01-04-2010, 08:32 AM
Wow! Lots of great audio gear.
Unfortunately, I have nothing to add. I acquired no new audio equipment in 2009. But it was still a great year. I hope this year goes as well as 09. (but some new audio gear sure would be nice)
Yeah, nothing much for me. I bought a cheap, semi-DIY DAC; this was fun to play with but no improvement over my old DAC.

rakeford
01-04-2010, 02:02 PM
1st new amp/reciever in 32 years- Yamaha RX-797.

E-Stat
01-04-2010, 02:37 PM
My vintage ADS 1290's
I'll bet they sound pretty darn good! I used to sell Braun/ADS back in the 70s and had tri-amped LV-1020s for a while.

rw

E-Stat
01-04-2010, 03:14 PM
2009 was a good AV year.

1. Two new dedicated 20 amp lines for the amps in the main system: Finally! First electrician told me it couldn't be done in that room.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/outlets.jpg

2. Gently used 300 disk Pioneer Elite PD-F27 CD changer for the garage system:

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/f27.jpg

3. Apple iPhone and backup set of Shure E3s. Better sound than Palm Treo and offers nifty SPL meter app!

4. NOS Amperex 7308 tubes for the ARC preamp and a bunch of used 60s RCA Clear Top 12AU7s for the Manley DAC.

5. Samsung Blu-Ray player

rw

bluetrain
01-06-2010, 07:29 AM
6537

My 2009 additions:

Conrad-Johnson PV15 preamp
Parasound A21 amp
Atoll PR300 preamp
Atoll AM200 amp

thekid
01-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Blue

Welcome to AR!

Nice set-up. Are those all CD's in the back?
What speakers are you running there?

bluetrain
01-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Blue

Welcome to AR!

Nice set-up. Are those all CD's in the back?
What speakers are you running there?

Thank you!

Yeap, CDs all over the place :)
I'm running Vandersteen 2 Signatures.

Worf101
01-06-2010, 08:22 PM
2009 was a good AV year.

1. Two new dedicated 20 amp lines for the amps in the main system: Finally! First electrician told me it couldn't be done in that room.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/outlets.jpg

2. Gently used 300 disk Pioneer Elite PD-F27 CD changer for the garage system:

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/f27.jpg

3. Apple iPhone and backup set of Shure E3s. Better sound than Palm Treo and offers nifty SPL meter app!

4. NOS Amperex 7308 tubes for the ARC preamp and a bunch of used 60s RCA Clear Top 12AU7s for the Manley DAC.

5. Samsung Blu-Ray player

rw
Oh my friggen gawd!!!!! Amazing stuff bud!!! Now THAT's power!!!! Dayum!!!! I'm almost speachless.

Da Worfster

harley .guy07
01-06-2010, 09:00 PM
I had no new additions for 2009 but I had somewhat of a bad year, I had a motorcycle wreck in the middle of the year and had to take some time off of work to recover and am still having problems from it, and had other things come up that took priority. But I hope to hell 2010 will be a better year and I can get back on track to upgrading and changing some things in my system that I would like to. Time will tell but it is nice to see that some of you did some nice upgrades to your systems and I like the pictures, They give me a more realistic view of the systems you guys are talking about when you are setting up of upgrading your systems and it looks like you guys have some nice stuff.

pixelthis
01-07-2010, 12:08 PM
NEW sony Blu ray.
NEW Integra receiver 6.9
NEW Emotiva two channel amp.
The Emotiva would have to be the best of the best, anybody with a receiver
needs at least the front two channels run through a power amp.
Not only does it improve your stereo immensly, but the load it takes off of your receiver
really helps the other channels.:1:

nightflier
01-07-2010, 01:40 PM
I got some great deals on A-gon and eBay this year. Ironically I spent a bit more on my HT setup than my 2-channel systems (may not be a good sign, lol):

McCormack MAP1:
http://www.spearitsound.com/mccormack/mccormack_images/map1a.jpg

Oppo BDP-83 & BDP-83se NE:
http://www.hear.nl/multimedia/news/a580608ff3da8dfcb3b48cb57fed1ebf.jpg

Magnepan MG-12, MC-1, MMGW, and MMGC
Kimber PBJ Audio Cables

Bluetrain, it's not often we see anything French around here. How do you like the Atoll gear? I was considering the Atoll CD-100 to replace an aging Audio Refinement player. Any thoughts on the matching CD player?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-07-2010, 03:35 PM
2009 was a pretty good year for video purchases for me.

1. a 65" Sony professional Cell processor based LED backlit LCD television with a native resolution of 40962160 pixels. It has the ability to convert 2D images to 3D on the fly using Real3D technology. It has 2000 individual local dimming zones each with a RGB LED cluster (called Triluminos) for richer colors, and a unmeasurable black level. It can display 18 different mini screens at SD resolution. or 4 full 1080p streams simultaneously. It can also upconvert 1080p to 4k in real time. It is only one of two televisions in the world that can deliver a full 1080p or 2160p content in full resolution with moving images. You are not going to find this at any consumer store, as these televisions are marketed to post production studios only (the price keeps it that way).

2. For my mixing/screening room, I have a brand new Sony 3D capable 4K projector.

3. Two Oppo players, both stock. I see no need for upgrade as I use HDMI for everything.

4. I purchased a PS3 slim for each of my 7 hometheaters spread out over 5 properties. This thing can be so tricked out, that a broadcast antenna or cable is unnecessary because of a small investment in a piece of software called playon.

5. I upgraded all of the video and audio cards on my HD switcher/ processor.

This year will the year for audio upgrades, as I have gotten myself all caught up(and a little ahead) on the video side.

Mingus
01-07-2010, 05:15 PM
This has been a quiet year for me. I only added a Sony 46" for the basement HT and the PS3.

M.T.Nest
01-07-2010, 08:03 PM
In 2009 we bought a 50" Panasonic TH-C50FD18 1080P Plasma, which we love because of it's great picture--especially for the money. (Good ol' Membership Warehourse Store) We also added a Panasonic DMB-BD605 Blu-Ray player. The jury is still out on that selection. We've only used it a couple of times so far.

I'm pretty excited about my new Onkyo HT-RC160 AVR. It may be off topic since I only picked it up last week, not in 2009. I did pick it out last year, though!

atomicAdam
01-07-2010, 10:26 PM
1. a 65" Sony professional Cell processor based LED backlit LCD television with a native resolution of 40962160 pixels. It has the ability to convert 2D images to 3D on the fly using Real3D technology. It has 2000 individual local dimming zones each with a RGB LED cluster (called Triluminos) for richer colors, and a unmeasurable black level. It can display 18 different mini screens at SD resolution. or 4 full 1080p streams simultaneously. It can also upconvert 1080p to 4k in real time. It is only one of two televisions in the world that can deliver a full 1080p or 2160p content in full resolution with moving images. You are not going to find this at any consumer store, as these televisions are marketed to post production studios only (the price keeps it that way).



Eventually it is going to just be easier to go outside and play, isn't it?

atomicAdam
01-07-2010, 10:38 PM
This year was a banner year at the old Bender house......

Almost everything is new this year. But the thing I like the most, that is mine, has to be the Rega P3/24 w/ the Sumiko Evo III. Maybe I should include the Moon LP3 in there as well, seeing as it is part of the package. But I really hate the chassis on this thing. Every time I've opened it up, closing it again is a real pain in the ass to get the screws aligned. nothing like good on Canadian manufacturing....hehe.. Though I can't say much better about the manufacturing of the Rega. The tone arm elevator didn't work, the plug for the power doesn't go in straight, or all the way, and I think it spins just a hair faster than it should.

Anyways, that is by far the best for me in 2009. And the best LP I picked up has to be Ratatat LP3. Amazing electronic, great engineering and production. It is my show off vinyl.

The other gear I'm really enjoying, the Granite Audio #560 power cords. Plug these into anything and it is whole near gear. Fanfreakingtastic. Also really liking the Audio Note DAC One, it is really detailed, but still sounds like a CD.

The Jeff Rowland is pretty awesome as well. Look for an upcoming review on Dagogo.com for that. But it is easily over excited with the right source and pre-amp. So finding a smooth source is key, and a good power cable.

I hope 2010 has a lot more to go. Not part of the thread, but I'm going to take my GMAT test on July 31st, I've started a new job while continuing to do side work for AudioREVIEW, and I'm getting in more gear for review, which is always great.

Enjoy all your gear and your loved ones. Life can be short, or long, but make it wonderful if you can. (I need to spot listening to hippie music, who wants to send me some new death metal CDs?)

bobsticks
01-08-2010, 07:00 AM
This year was a banner year at the old Bender house......


Over here too..."I got a carton of smokes...Smoke up Johnny!"...


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/4/46/Juddnelson.jpg/200px-Juddnelson.jpg

bluetrain
01-08-2010, 08:33 AM
I

Bluetrain, it's not often we see anything French around here. How do you like the Atoll gear? I was considering the Atoll CD-100 to replace an aging Audio Refinement player. Any thoughts on the matching CD player?

Hey, I really like my Atolls. Years back I had Audio Refinement Complete integrated, so I can say Atoll retains that smoothness and musicality, but adds great bass, more details and incomparably better dynamics. As for their CDPs - can't comment on them, never heard them, but everybody loves their sound.

E-Stat
01-11-2010, 05:31 PM
had a motorcycle wreck in the middle of the year and had to take some time off of work to recover and am still having problems from it...
Sorry to hear that from a fellow rider. That sucks big time, but I can relate. Two years ago, my '94 Magna was totaled at a stop light when the idiot behind me jumped the gun and knocked me into the intersection. Only got a bruise or two from that. It was when I got the new ST1300 that I did something really stupid. One day ONE, I rode about fifty miles and was enjoying the new bike. Then I decided to go out again and zoomed down my longish drive... my muscle memory was still attuned to the old bike's drum brakes and I hit them too hard for the new bike. Not to mention the fact that new tires are kinda slick anyway. The rear locked, fishtailed and went down. Unfortunately, the crash bar came down on my ankle and did a job on it. I was out of commission, too for a couple of months. Since I work at home (computer guy), it didn't affect my job.

Hope your out again!

rw

E-Stat
01-11-2010, 05:36 PM
Oh my friggen gawd!!!!! Amazing stuff bud!!! Now THAT's power!!!! Dayum!!!! I'm almost speachless.
Each VTL amp peaks at 10 amps, so a standard 15 amp line for both just didn't do the trick. When I built my last house, I installed several dedicated lines. While the current house is better built, it didn't have enough juice in the room to drive the amps. I was really disappointed when the first electrician said new lines could not be run into that room. Now the amps afre not starved and benefit from isolation from the sources. :)

rw

E-Stat
01-11-2010, 05:45 PM
1. a 65" Sony professional Cell processor based LED backlit LCD television with a native resolution of 40962160 pixels. It has the ability to convert 2D images to 3D on the fly using Real3D technology....
So when will you be adding IMAX capability? :) While the audio found at IMAX theatres is mediocre (if not loud), the video quality is on a completely different plane! I've seen Avatar twice so far and find it to showcase the potential of the medium.

rw

02audionoob
01-11-2010, 09:16 PM
E-Stat...just now realized you're a Scout man. I'm a little jealous.

E-Stat
01-12-2010, 03:29 PM
E-Stat...just now realized you're a Scout man. I'm a little jealous.
A couple of years ago, I moved the trusty Souther TQ-1 arm to a Scout and bought an old SME for the '75 Ariston (what I used originally) which now lives in the garage.

rw

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-12-2010, 06:24 PM
So when will you be adding IMAX capability? :) While the audio found at IMAX theatres is mediocre (if not loud), the video quality is on a completely different plane! I've seen Avatar twice so far and find it to showcase the potential of the medium.

rw

Wow E, I am surprised that you found IMAX's audio to be just mediocre. Are you sure it wasn't fake IMAX? Difference, the new IMAX uses a smaller screen, DLP projectors, and a sound system based on JBL;s cinema stuff. If is truly mediocre sounding to these ears. The real IMAX has the 8 story screen, the 14,000 watt worth of power, and two surrounds as opposed to the common array of speakers. It uses the basic 5.1 channel setup with a front height channel the fake IMAX does not have. I have found the real IMAX sound system to be head and shoulders above the typical theater sound system.

IMAX is a 2011 upgrade :smilewinkgrin:

E-Stat
01-12-2010, 06:43 PM
Wow E, I am surprised that you found IMAX's audio to be just mediocre
We have different points of reference. None of the twenty or so IMAX theatres I've attended has sound even approaching the resolution of the best audio I've heard. Zero depth and no finesse. Loud horns that no one would ever mistake for the live unamplified event. Everything sounds electronic. What do you expect from the JBL drivers used by Sonics Associates?


Are you sure it wasn't fake IMAX?
Fake IMAX? What is that?


The real IMAX has the 8 story screen, the 14,000 watt worth of power, and two surrounds as opposed to the common array of speakers. It uses the basic 5.1 channel setup with a front height channel the fake IMAX does not have. I have found the real IMAX sound system to be head and shoulders above the typical theater sound system.
Above the "typical theatre sound system". That isn't saying much since that sucks! In nearly twenty years of attending IMAX films (for which the video is incredible), the audio has never rendered the resolution or spatial characteristics I've heard in countless audio systems. As I indicated earlier, it is powerful and loud. Quantitative, not qualitative. It is all about the picture. Which is truly incredible as I've noted. Avatar is a work of art!


IMAX is a 2011 upgrade :smilewinkgrin:
Kewl, dude! The multi-projector Cinerama of the 60s I saw (Grand Prix, Sound of Music, etc) has never matched the video resolution of the huge lateral 70mm format. It is a pity the sound is not even in the same class.

rw

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-13-2010, 03:55 PM
We have different points of reference. None of the twenty or so IMAX theatres I've attended has sound even approaching the resolution of the best audio I've heard. Zero depth and no finesse. Loud horns that no one would ever mistake for the live unamplified event. Everything sounds electronic. What do you expect from the JBL drivers used by Sonics Associates?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. The purpose of a theatrical sound system is not to sound as good as a home based audio system, but to cover many seats with good sound as possible. Some theatrical systems are better at this than others. Sonic Associates systems don't use JBL drivers, their whole sound system was totally proprietary down to the drivers. The fake IMAX uses a JBL based theatrical system.



Fake IMAX? What is that?

Fake IMAX= digital files at 2k resolution, a JBL based sound system, and smaller screen

Real IMAX= 70mm film set on its side, 8 story screen, and the custom sound system built by Sonic Associates.



Above the "typical theatre sound system". That isn't saying much since that sucks! In nearly twenty years of attending IMAX films (for which the video is incredible), the audio has never rendered the resolution or spatial characteristics I've heard in countless audio systems. As I indicated earlier, it is powerful and loud. Quantitative, not qualitative. It is all about the picture. Which is truly incredible as I've noted. Avatar is a work of art!

Another apples and oranges comparison. A audio system (especially a two channel system) is design to deliver its best output to one seat in room sizes a lot smaller than a movie theater. A movie theater sound system does not have that luxury.

The spatial characteristic you get from a home audio system is generated by reflections within the room. Home audio speakers can only acheive the spatial characteristics you describe by being located away from the walls. The more you push the speaker system towards the walls, the less spatial effect you will hear because you are turning a reflective pattern into a single event to the ears, as apposed to a multiple event with longer reflective paths to the ears. All depth from a two channel audio system comes from in front of you, and basically very little to none from the rear.

Theaterical speaker systems are built into baffles which prevent any rearward reflection event from happening. Hence the lack of rear depth. Depth is gained by pulling the signals "into" the room via the surround speakers.

Soundtracks, and music tracks are built totally different. Music is a event recorder, and soundtracks are made to match the the action on the screen. Music recordings are continual processes, and film soundtracks are sewn together from different events. Even if the quality of the systems were the same, you cannot compare a recording event to a manufactured recording. Audio is mixed one way, and film a completely different way.

It is not realistic or even logical to compare a home audio system to a multichannel theatrical sound system. What each has to accomplish within their environment is of opposite polarity, and almost everything about the listening experience is polar opposite as well. This is not a credible comparison, and it is illogical to frame it this way. Theatrical sound systems should be compared against other theatrical systems. A JBL theatrical system versus a Klipsch theatrical system is more credible because you are comparing systems that do the same thing in the same environment.



Kewl, dude! The multi-projector Cinerama of the 60s I saw (Grand Prix, Sound of Music, etc) has never matched the video resolution of the huge lateral 70mm format. It is a pity the sound is not even in the same class.

rw

If you really think that the audio on magnetic tape with a frequency response of 30-15khz, restricted dynamics in comparison to digital, complete with wow and flutter as the film goes through the projector, with a two way Altec based speaker system full of distortion is comparable to lossless digital sound with a frequency response of 20-20khz, no wow or flutter, coming through a 4 way custom speaker system with a fraction of the distortion is better sound, all I can say is nostalgia dominates your hearing capabilites more than reality.

Todays sound systems are lower in distortion, wider in frequency response, and have more controlled coverage patterns that require less acoustical tweaking than those old 2 way systems. Todays horns sound less "horn like" than the old systems. The bass response of a typical screen speaker is much lower than the old system (40hz versus 80hz). Amplifiers are lower in distortion than those older amps, and clarity of the overall system is far ahead today than back then.

IRG
01-13-2010, 04:24 PM
Well I spent the last 4-5 years feeding my guitar gear addiction, but am thinking I'll get back in the audio game for 2010. Very humbly at first, compared to the rest of you. But back in the game, just the same.

E-Stat
01-13-2010, 05:38 PM
You are comparing apples and oranges here. The purpose of a theatrical sound system is not to sound as good as a home based audio system, but to cover many seats with good sound as possible.
Understood. HP's Maggie based sound system is qualitatively the best HT audio I've heard.


Some theatrical systems are better at this than others. Sonic Associates systems don't use JBL drivers, their whole sound system was totally proprietary down to the drivers. The fake IMAX uses a JBL based theatrical system.
Does this (http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/1997/50/imax_sound/index.htm) link provide inaccurate information?


Fake IMAX= digital files at 2k resolution, a JBL based sound system, and smaller screenReal IMAX= 70mm film set on its side, 8 story screen, and the custom sound system built by Sonic Associates.
And I've attended quite a few standard IMAX (and OmniMax) theatres over the years. One of the most memorable non-3D titles was "The Dream is Alive" shot by Shuttle astronauts. The launch sequences are awesome at that power level and - I got bleary eyed when the shuttle opened the bay doors and revealed the beautiful majesty of our planet in such splendor rendered in the magnificent contrast afforded by the format. I now have that in Blu-Ray. :)



The spatial characteristic you get from a home audio system is generated by reflections within the room.
And by a far higher level of resolution and purity. The best home systems render like two and a quarter square Hassleblads while even the best theatre systems are more like entry level 35 mm rangefinders.


Home audio speakers can only acheive the spatial characteristics you describe by being located away from the walls.
Agreed.


All depth from a two channel audio system comes from in front of you, and basically very little to none from the rear.
Not so with all listening rooms. While the delay may not match that of a concert hall, I most certainly get some indirect radiation. Given that 95% of recorded music material is mixed down artifice, that provides a more natural result to me than gimmicky rear channel effects. OTOH, I will readily acknowledge the superiority of well done MC classical recordings. An EMM Labs transport/DAC through superb electronics, cabling and speakers does a fine job. Unfortunately, they are comparatively rare especially if what you prize is the performance - not limited to the quality of the recording. My classical repertoire consists of considerable pre-1980 content. I confess that I have zero interest in "live" rock MC recordings where the spatial characteristics consist solely of crowd noise added to what is fundamentally a monophonic wall of mud. The quality of the performance usually suffers in this environment as well. I don't own any video concerts of this type.


Theaterical speaker systems are built into baffles which prevent any rearward reflection event from happening. Hence the lack of rear depth. Depth is gained by pulling the signals "into" the room via the surround speakers.
Which I find quite realistic in an HT environment where sounds truly can emanate from behind you - unlike the overwhelming majority of musical performances.


It is not realistic or even logical to compare a home audio system to a multichannel theatrical sound system. What each has to accomplish within their environment is of opposite polarity, and almost everything about the listening experience is polar opposite as well. This is not a credible comparison, and it is illogical to frame it this way.
I'm not entirely agreeing with you. There is a sound of voices in space which my audio system can mimic - where theatrical systems fail miserably. Painted ships on a painted sky. They are utterly incapable of floating a voice in front of you as one finds in real life.


Theatrical sound systems should be compared against other theatrical systems.
From a commercial standpoint, that is a fair assessment. As for me, I've been ruined with the utter realism the best audio systems can render. Why not expect at some point a higher level of purity and coherence to make the sonic illusion more palpable?


... with a two way Altec based speaker system full of distortion is comparable to lossless digital sound with a frequency response of 20-20khz, no wow or flutter, coming through a 4 way custom speaker system with a fraction of the distortion is better sound, all I can say is nostalgia dominates your hearing capabilites more than reality.
I have no idea where this comment comes from. I find A5s and A7s to be intolerably honky and are severely bandwidth limited at both ends. They serve as no reference for me. :)


Todays sound systems are lower in distortion, wider in frequency response, and have more controlled coverage patterns that require less acoustical tweaking than those old 2 way systems.
Thank heaven for that! They still have quite a way to go.



Todays horns sound less "horn like" than the old systems. The bass response of a typical screen speaker is much lower than the old system (40hz versus 80hz). Amplifiers are lower in distortion than those older amps, and clarity of the overall system is far ahead today than back then.
I am in complete agreement with your assessment. It's just that I've been accustomed to far better for decades. :)

rw

jvc
01-13-2010, 05:55 PM
In April of '09, I got my new 61" Samsung LED DLP.
In Nov.'09, I got my Oppo BDP-83
Now all I need is a new sub. Hope to get an SVS cylinder in April.

kexodusc
01-14-2010, 04:37 AM
Kexo had to buy 2 cars and pay a 3rd in landscaping in 2009 so no new Audio or HT gear by court (wife) order...I managed to build 1 speaker system for a friend, record low from my shop. In addition to a big health scare that even kept me off ar.com for a month and change, work and other commitments kept me away from my gear for far too long. 2009 was about as inactive as I've ever been in this hobby.

But 2010 is looking pretty good...

harley .guy07
01-14-2010, 10:47 AM
Sorry to hear that from a fellow rider. That sucks big time, but I can relate. Two years ago, my '94 Magna was totaled at a stop light when the idiot behind me jumped the gun and knocked me into the intersection. Only got a bruise or two from that. It was when I got the new ST1300 that I did something really stupid. One day ONE, I rode about fifty miles and was enjoying the new bike. Then I decided to go out again and zoomed down my longish drive... my muscle memory was still attuned to the old bike's drum brakes and I hit them too hard for the new bike. Not to mention the fact that new tires are kinda slick anyway. The rear locked, fishtailed and went down. Unfortunately, the crash bar came down on my ankle and did a job on it. I was out of commission, too for a couple of months. Since I work at home (computer guy), it didn't affect my job.

Hope your out again!

rw

I think I will. My 2007 Harley softail was almost destroyed when a 16 year old girl decided to turn in front of me in the middle of an intersection when I was already in the damn intersection. I broke my left leg and completely destroyed my right knee. I had surgery and my doctor told me that my right knee has a titanium plate in it and my meniscus is totally gone so I am having to reevaluate my career and a lot of my life right now so I am looking forward to getting on with my life after a little more healing and possibly going back to school for a different career. I am hoping to be making some audio purchases in 2010 though if everything goes right.

harley .guy07
01-14-2010, 10:48 AM
oh I finally found a good place for titanium. My Knee. But not my tweeters in my speakers!!!

poppachubby
01-14-2010, 11:36 AM
oh I finally found a good place for titanium. My Knee. But not my tweeters in my speakers!!!

Ha! Glad to see you didn't lose your sense of humour. Quite a curve ball harley but it seems like you're coming out ok. Keep your head up man...

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-14-2010, 02:24 PM
Understood. HP's Maggie based sound system is qualitatively the best HT audio I've heard.

You need to discover life beyond that elecrostatic or ribbon panel. I have heard planty of cones and domes that sound superior to ribbon or electro panels doing HT sound. Clarity is just one parimeter in acheiving good HT sound.



Does this (http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/1997/50/imax_sound/index.htm) link provide inaccurate information?

They are describing the dome based system which is different from the basic IMAX theater setup. I know, I used to work at the IMAX theater in California Science Center IMAX theater when I was in College at USC. I have an up close and personal relationship with that theaters A and B chain.



And I've attended quite a few standard IMAX (and OmniMax) theatres over the years. One of the most memorable non-3D titles was "The Dream is Alive" shot by Shuttle astronauts. The launch sequences are awesome at that power level and - I got bleary eyed when the shuttle opened the bay doors and revealed the beautiful majesty of our planet in such splendor rendered in the magnificent contrast afforded by the format. I now have that in Blu-Ray. :)

I also have that titles, good stuff.




And by a far higher level of resolution and purity. The best home systems render like two and a quarter square Hassleblads while even the best theatre systems are more like entry level 35 mm rangefinders.

You really cannot make this statement without actually listening to all of the theaterical sound system in the field. Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system? Or have you heard any of the custom solutions that are in theaters these days?


Not so with all listening rooms. While the delay may not match that of a concert hall, I most certainly get some indirect radiation.

That indirection radiation comes from front, side , and rear reflection from the room, and that is not natural to the recording itself. The recording itself does not contain a end users room reflections.


Given that 95% of recorded music material is mixed down artifice, that provides a more natural result to me than gimmicky rear channel effects.

Not all rear channel effects are gimmicky,and this comment shows a lack of experience in listening to the breath of MC recording out there. A great majority of the time those rear channels have reflective information derived directly from the hall, and not generated by the end users room reflections.


OTOH, I will readily acknowledge the superiority of well done MC classical recordings. An EMM Labs transport/DAC through superb electronics, cabling and speakers does a fine job.

You're are right, but it does not correct the spatial distortions of two channel sources.



Unfortunately, they are comparatively rare especially if what you prize is the performance - not limited to the quality of the recording. My classical repertoire consists of considerable pre-1980 content. I confess that I have zero interest in "live" rock MC recordings where the spatial characteristics consist solely of crowd noise added to what is fundamentally a monophonic wall of mud. The quality of the performance usually suffers in this environment as well. I don't own any video concerts of this type.

I gather that. Do you really believe that this kind of recording is the only MC(video or not) material out there? I hope not, because that would show a profound lack of experience with the broad range of MC recordings that have been released. This would not sound like any of Surround Records recordings, nor 2L classical recordings I have reviewed. Secondly, crowd noises are not added, they are recorded right from the venue, which makes it a natural part of the presentation itself. I would prefer it in the right place beside and behind me, rather than from behind the stage itself. Not one concert video I have reviewed has a wall of monophonic mud as you describe. Not even the acid, progressive, or hard rock I have reviewed. Just like with all recordings, there are some excellent top notch recordings, and there are some less than stellar ones. Either way, I have never heard what you describe.



Which I find quite realistic in an HT environment where sounds truly can emanate from behind you - unlike the overwhelming majority of musical performances.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the majority of musical performances do not contain a front loaded spatial perspective. In a concert hall, you have direct and indirect energy coming from all directions around the head. A two channel recording of the performance can only relay the natural frontal perspective, and not the other 300 degrees of natural information in the concert hall that hits the ears. The majority of musical performance cannot be defined by a weakness in a delivery system such a two channels only format.



I'm not entirely agreeing with you. There is a sound of voices in space which my audio system can mimic - where theatrical systems fail miserably. Painted ships on a painted sky. They are utterly incapable of floating a voice in front of you as one finds in real life.

Untrue, a completely untrue statement. Can your system float that same voice accurately in space if you sit off center? No it cannot, but it can with a MC system. Even my cheapest MC system can do what you describe with complete and total ease. Sorry, but a two channel system contains no magic properties except the ones the end user makes up in their collective heads. Anything a good two channel system can do, and good MC can do equally or better. Let us not cloud technical reality with nostalgic muses.



From a commercial standpoint, that is a fair assessment. As for me, I've been ruined with the utter realism the best audio systems can render. Why not expect at some point a higher level of purity and coherence to make the sonic illusion more palpable?

This statement essentially states that only a two channel system is capable of realism. This would be a disengenuous statement, and could not be further from the truth. A two channel system distorts a live concert, not provides it with more realism no matter what the quality of the system is. A two channel system cannot accurately reproduce a soundstage if a listener sits even a little off axis. The sound will be pulled to the nearest speaker in this case. This does not happen with a solid center channel. A two channel system has built in frequency response errors (a notch between 1-4khz) when trying to reproduce a phantom center no matter how good or expensive the speakers are. That notch does not happen with a hard center speaker. The illusion you speak of can only be realized from one point in space in a two channel system. A MC system does not have that kind of limitation.



I have no idea where this comment comes from. I find A5s and A7s to be intolerably honky and are severely bandwidth limited at both ends. They serve as no reference for me. :)

The multi-projector Cinerama of the 60s I saw (Grand Prix, Sound of Music, etc) has never matched the video resolution of the huge lateral 70mm format. It is a pity the sound is not even in the same class.

That last statement is where this comment came from. From a sound perspective, you cannot make the arguement that today sound systems, or even todays sound technology is not in the same class as the sound from these two movies shown in the Cinerama days. Todays sound is head and shoulders better than yesteryears in every way.



Thank heaven for that! They still have quite a way to go.

As does all speaker technology.




I am in complete agreement with your assessment. It's just that I've been accustomed to far better for decades. :)

rw

Far better is a matter of personal perspective. It means different things to different people. Far better home audio cannot be compared to far better film sound. You have no sources released to both that can offer a realistic comparison. There is no doubt the best home audio systems sound very good, but the best MC systems can sound as good or better than a simple two channel system even if the sources are identical(the same recording) optimized for both delivery system. Two channel proponents ignore a lot of sonic realities in support of their preferred delivery system.

In 1939(over 71 years ago) Bell Labs through extensive listening test concluded it takes at least three front speakers to accurately map a front soundstage(three was the minimum). Two channel only systems already fall short of that finding, no matter how good they are.

poppachubby
01-14-2010, 03:23 PM
One of the local hi-fi shops has a couple of theatre rooms. I don't know what they have gear wise in them, doesn't matter. When you sit inside the result is nothing short of mind boggling. I don't know how anyone can even think critically in these rooms, I just sat and enjoyed every moment. They threw in Crouching Tiger for me and cued up a fight scene which had swords and other blade weapons....I almost shat.

Maybe I am not an expert and haven't heard the best of the best, but c'mon!! High end home theatre sounds great and serves its purpose entirely... to thrill and awe the viewer. Personally, I couldn't care less to nitpick about frequencies or any other technical jargon.

If it sounds good, it sounds good. As far as MC music goes, to each their own...

E-Stat
01-14-2010, 03:44 PM
...doing HT sound.
Therein lies the difference in our preferences. I care more about musical qualities that the ability to replicate hovering helicopters or slamming doors.


They are describing the dome based system which is different from the basic IMAX theater setup.
Ok, they are used in the OmniMax flavor. Last time I checked they used IMAX projectors using the same film format and showed the same films.


You really cannot make this statement without actually listening to all of the theaterical sound system in the field. Have you heard the HPS-4000 system, or the Klipsch theatrical system? Or have you heard any of the custom solutions that are in theaters these days?
All I can say is that in hundreds of theaters from Los Angeles to New York, I haven't heard one that sounded worth a $hit since the 60s. Where are these magic sound systems to which you refer?


The recording itself does not contain a end users room reflections.
Why would anyone attempt to debate the obvious?


Not all rear channel effects are gimmicky,and this comment shows a lack of experience in listening to the breath of MC recording out there.
Read the next statement in my comments. I've heard many a fine classical MC recording.


I gather that. Do you really believe that this kind of recording is the only MC(video or not) material out there?
Please refresh my memory on which high quality popular MC audio recordings that are not recorded with *captured* audience noise. Perhaps they involve artists that do not appeal to me. Are there any musical scores by John Williams, James Horner, Hans Zimmer, or Nicholas Hooper available?


Sorry to bust your bubble, but the majority of musical performances do not contain a front loaded spatial perspective.
I will repeat this part we have discussed before. Hopefully, this time you will remember it. I HAVE NEVER ATTENDED ANY CONCERT WITH ARTISTS PLAYING BEHIND ME.


In a concert hall, you have direct and indirect energy coming from all directions around the head. A two channel recording of the performance can only relay the natural frontal perspective, and not the other 300 degrees of natural information in the concert hall that hits the ears.
Unless of course, you capture that ambience on the recording and have higher resolution gear than theatrical quality is capable of delivering.


he majority of musical performance cannot be defined by a weakness in a delivery system such a two channels only format.
This repetitious discussion is getting tiring. I base my choices on the musical library I have, not what is possible. I listen to my music, not the "medium". I will not dispense with 99% of recorded music history just to get gee whiz spatial effects. Feel free to do so yourself.


Untrue, a completely untrue statement. Can your system float that same voice accurately in space if you sit off center? No it cannot, but it can with a MC system...Even my cheapest MC system can do what you describe with complete and total ease.
Now you are showing your inexperience. I refer to a level of resolution that transcends theatrical quality gear. You can dial the otherwise flat and dimensionless image wherever you please and NOT succeed with the quality to which I refer.


Sorry, but a two channel system contains no magic properties except the ones the end user makes up in their collective heads. Anything a good two channel system can do, and good MC can do equally or better. Let us not cloud technical reality with nostalgic muses.
We have very different points of reference. I'm sure you believe the Oppo has state of the art performance. That you miss out on what is possible is a shame.


This statement essentially states that only a two channel system is capable of realism.
I really don't understand your fetish for how many channels are involved. I'm talking about the inherent purity and performance of the reproduction chain. It has nothing at all to do with the channel count.



That last statement is where this comment came from.
Perhaps I didn't state my point clearly. The audio comment was referring strictly to current theatrical gear and not comparing old systems. My Cinerama example was in reference to the video quality only. Audio quality has always suffered comparatively.


As does all speaker technology.
But using what is available today in a large venue would be cost prohibitive. Maybe in time theatrical systems will catch up with the resolution found with the best home or studio based systems. They all sound hard and unnatural to me.


Far better is a matter of personal perspective. It means different things to different people.
Indeed. It is apparent we do not hear the same things in recordings.

rw

harley .guy07
01-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Ha! Glad to see you didn't lose your sense of humour. Quite a curve ball harley but it seems like you're coming out ok. Keep your head up man...

thanks for the good thought. and I will keep my head up and hope to get back to working at the level I was before the accident. And to say the least I hope to get back to buying some of the audio goodies that I have been looking at for so damn long online and doing research on for so many months or years. Its nice to know that I have like minded people that are supportive.