Bluejean Cables #2

[blackraven]

I just received my 2nd set of BJC's analog IC's. My first pair was used to replace the monster cable m950i's that I was using between my preamp and amp. This made a noticeable improvement in the high frequency's with more forward treble and increased resolution and detail. Overall it improved the sound.

I just placed the 2nd pair between my DAC and preamp replacing my monster m1000i's and the results were not so good. After about 2hours of listening the music appears more grainy and busy for lack of a better term. The m1000's gave a more liquid, warmer sound with better bass.

I'll give the BJC's another 20hrs of break in and see if the sound improves and post my impressions then. But I have a feeling that I will end up using the combo of the m1000's and BJC instead of 2 sets of the BJC's.

[frenchmon]

I cant understand why placing them between the DAC and Pre would be different unless its not a good fit with the VA Dac which may require a more sophisticated cable. I would give it more breakin time. Most good cables require about 300 hours of break in time to fully take advantage of what it was engineered to do. You've got some pretty good and expensive gear Raven, especially that nice Parasound amp that you have...I'm wondering if you have ever got the best performance out of your gear with the monster and bluejean cable? You just may be due for a cable upgrade with the gear you have. I think at one time you had audioquest but was not a good cable for you. I can get you a good deal on some A+ cables if you like?

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Ever compare the M950 to the M1000? If the M1000 is better than the BJC why not use two sets of M1000?

[blackraven]

The m1000 is better than the 950i. The m1000i's got a good review in a British Magazine and I've never thought that they sounded bad. And for $30 on ebay they were a good buy. I might try some more expensive cables. I'm satisfied with the BJC's from the pre to the amp. What kind of deals on the A+ cables Mr. P?

[poppachubby]

Blackraven, time to look into solid core if you're wandering the vast fields of speaker cable.

http://www.essex.ac.uk/csee/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/G3%20HFN%20Essex_Echo_(cables_1985).pdf

Here's Hawksford's personal contact info. He is completely accessible, I emailed him a couple of questions and within a week he responded.

http://www.essex.ac.uk/csee/research/audio_lab/people_malcolm.html

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, is the one who bought the A+. Not sure how much he paid for speaker cables. I believe the 1 meter RCA was around $70.00 for the model that retailed at $99..
I'll point him your way and maybe he can PM you some info.

[atomicAdam]

I've been using the BJC between my Simaudio Moon LP3 phono amp and my AVA Omega III pre-amp, and Granite Audio #470 between the AVA Omega III pre amp and either the Jeff Rowland or the AVA OmegaStar.

I found the BJC to give a tighter, punchier bass but lacked a bit in the soundstage compared to when I used the Granite Audio #470 between the phono & pre and pre & amp.

That was in the old apartment. This new place in SoCal is offering a new set of challenges to set up. Have to pick all your minds soon about this.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, you have a Jeff Rowland? Go on with your bad self. :)

BJC is good for mid fi, it has it's limits. It's easily bested by higher quality brands entry level cables and that may be where to go if you have what you'd consider high end gear. For instance, there was a easily noticeable extension in both bass and trebel when going from BJC to Transparent.

[atomicAdam]

Adam, you have a Jeff Rowland? Go on with your bad self. :)

BJC is good for mid fi, it has it's limits. It's easily bested by higher quality brands entry level cables and that may be where to go if you have what you'd consider high end gear. For instance, there was a easily noticeable extension in both bass and trebel when going from BJC to Transparent.


I'd be interested in hearing the Transparent after all the good talk on the forums.

I've got a Jeff Rowland in for another couple weeks for review. The 102. The review will be posted on Dagogo.com but I'll post up a link in the forums.

So far, after some power cord tweaking, I'm diggin it.

[frenchmon]

Adam, you have a Jeff Rowland? Go on with your bad self. :)

BJC is good for mid fi, it has it's limits. It's easily bested by higher quality brands entry level cables and that may be where to go if you have what you'd consider high end gear. For instance, there was a easily noticeable extension in both bass and trebel when going from BJC to Transparent.


And that is my point exactly. The higher end gear may require a more sophisticated cable to let all the engineering of the high end component come through. The lower end cable may not be able to handle the technology of high end gear.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

I'd be interested in hearing the Transparent after all the good talk on the forums.

I've got a Jeff Rowland in for another couple weeks for review. The 102. The review will be posted on Dagogo.com but I'll post up a link in the forums.

So far, after some power cord tweaking, I'm diggin it.

What does a unit like that cost? And is it tubes?

frenchmon

[E-Stat]

After about 2hours of listening the music appears more grainy and busy for lack of a better term. The m1000's gave a more liquid, warmer sound with better bass.
They need break in. I use both the LC-1 analog and 1694 digital cable and found them to be intolerably bright for a while (the Belden 1694 in particular). You will need far more than twenty hours. I ran an old DVD player as transport non-stop to the DAC for about a week!

rw

[frenchmon]

They need break in. I use both the LC-1 analog and 1694 digital cable and found them to be intolerably bright for a while (the Belden 1694 in particular). You will need far more than twenty hours. I ran an old DVD player as transport non-stop to the DAC for about a week!

rw

When I got the A+ cable the first and second pair I ran all night and all day none stop until it started to sound better, but out of the box they sounded better than what I was using.The third pair got broken in with the dealers breakin machine. But the A+ speaker wire was a different story out of the box. I was so disappointed and afraid they where not going to sound any better at all. Out of the box they sounded awfull. But only after a few days of running day and night did they start sounding like they where loosening up. Now they sound much better eith much better imaging. They still are not fully broken in. I do know his BJC needs more than 20 hours...more like 75 to hear improvement and then 150 hours and more to be fully broken in.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

That Dagogo gig seems to be a nice deal, how do you get linked up as a reviewer?

[nightflier]

After struggling with big heavy cables for years, I tried Kimber just based on the practicality of their thin and easily managed cables. Well a year later, my top-performing entry-level IC is still the little Kimber PBJ. I know it sounds weird, but it bests cables 2-3 times as expensive. But I wouldn't discount system synergy, either - maybe the PBJs are just the right thing for my gear.

On the minimalist side of cables, I've also been intrigued with the claims made by Pierre Sprey over at Mapleshade (website is currently under construction) (http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/), but I can't bring myself to pay $30-60 for something that really looks that cheap. That said, I've been told by several people that it outperforms the PBJs by a considerable amount. The other thing I'm wondering about these is if I could simply build similar cables like that myself using good quality solder-less plugs. Anyhow, it may be worth a look-see-hear.

[bfalls]

When I got the A+ cable the first and second pair I ran all night and all day none stop until it started to sound better, but out of the box they sounded better than what I was using.The third pair got broken in with the dealers breakin machine. But the A+ speaker wire was a different story out of the box. I was so disappointed and afraid they where not going to sound any better at all. Out of the box they sounded awfull. But only after a few days of running day and night did they start sounding like they where loosening up. Now they sound much better eith much better imaging. They still are not fully broken in. I do know his BJC needs more than 20 hours...more like 75 to hear improvement and then 150 hours and more to be fully broken in.

frenchmon

A question comes to mind. Will full break-in always result in maximum improvements in overall sound with a specific interconnect? In your system or mine, I would think there has to be an optimum where synergy with the system results. What if, as with the situation where there was improvement "out-of-the-box", this was optimum and continued break-in resulted in less than synergistic results?

Since break-in results in the "settling" of cable parameters (resistance, capacitance, inductance) it seem logical continued break-in may result in parameters outside the combination for synergy? Seems we're always shooting at a moving target. If cable designs achieve their optimum at full break-in, is the same goal optimum for all system configurations. Isn't transparent, transparent? How small/large is the window?

[frenchmon]

A question comes to mind. Will full break-in always result in maximum improvements in overall sound with a specific interconnect? In your system or mine, I would think there has to be an optimum where synergy with the system results. What if, as with the situation where there was improvement "out-of-the-box", this was optimum and continued break-in resulted in less than synergistic results?

Since break-in results in the "settling" of cable parameters (resistance, capacitance, inductance) it seem logical continued break-in may result in parameters outside the combination for synergy? Seems we're always shooting at a moving target. If cable designs achieve their optimum at full break-in, is the same goal optimum for all system configurations. Isn't transparent, transparent? How small/large is the window?

If the cable says it takes 300 hours to fully break in, then I doubt I have fully broken in my speaker cable.I would think there comes a time down the road, if we have good cable, we will have maximum enjoyment from our system. I believe I have a very favorable point of synergy with my system now. Will it continue to evolve in an improved sound? As audio hobbyist, we surely would hope so. I would think the engineers of the cable would design cable to do what it was engineered to do and no more. So I doubt that less than synergistic results would be an issue unless its a bad cable or we get gear with a performance out side of the cables range.

I thought transparent was transparent as well... until I got the Xray and did a shootout. The XRay was very transparent with great air. Then I took my XRay over to Mr. Peabodys house and while the XRay continued to amaze me with transparency and tone connected to his Conrad Johnson tubed gear, MrPeabodys T+A CDP was the most transparent CDP I have ever heard....I mean the transparency was very detail and more air. Thats when I thought to my self, there are really more levels of transparency. My interconnect cables, Analysis Plus are very good cables at $99 dollars per meter. I have 3 pair and Analysis Plus speaker cable that sells for $119 per 8 feet. all giving very good synergy in my system. Analysis Plus cable is a warm cable with great detail. But its their low end of cable. I did a shootout with Mr.Peabodys cable...Siltech cable which is maybe 3 times more expensive and is not the low end cable from Siltech. I think he has Siltech speaker cables as well all connected to his main system. The shootout revealed the Siltech to be more transparent and detailed than my cheaper Analysis Plus cable....my point??? Transparency has a larger window than we think...and until we start shooting out gear and cable we will never discover how small or big the window is. Isn't that part of the fun of being a hobbyist?

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

I believe if there is any break in for a cable it will do after break in what it did out of the box but better. The cable won't continue to change after reaching it's point of broke in, at least that is my theory. To be honest this is one place I have not heard a difference. Maybe it was that the cable made an improvement initially and any break in was so gradual I didn't notice. What would be a good test is to take two brand new sets of cables and burn one set in with a Cooker and do nothing to the other then compare the two sets to see if any difference could be noticed between them. I really don't think we have to worry about cables continuing to evolve in sonic character.

[frenchmon]

I believe if there is any break in for a cable it will do after break in what it did out of the box but better. The cable won't continue to change after reaching it's point of broke in, at least that is my theory. To be honest this is one place I have not heard a difference. Maybe it was that the cable made an improvement initially and any break in was so gradual I didn't notice. What would be a good test is to take two brand new sets of cables and burn one set in with a Cooker and do nothing to the other then compare the two sets to see if any difference could be noticed between them. I really don't think we have to worry about cables continuing to evolve in sonic character.

Wylie broke in my third set of A+ interconnects the maxium of 300 hours over three days on his cooker while I used the first and second pair of unbroke in cables in my system out of the box. He too wanted to know if I could hear a difference in a fully broken in cable and cable that I used out of the box in my sytem. But I forgot to shoot them out once I got home to see if there was a difference. I suspect I would not have heard a difference.

But what I can tell you is the A+ speaker cable was a different story. Brand new out of the box the cable was terrible to the point I thought the cable was not as good as the interconnects and worse that the cheap speaker cable I was replacing. But I continue to let it burn in and after a day it still did not sound any better. After a few days, the cable did start to evolve and it did reach its potential and synergy with the other cables after about 4 or 5 days. According to the engineers, its still not fully broken in but to my ears its sounding very good. If its to reach even a better performance, I doubt if it will be audable.

frenchmon

[blackraven]

Are these DH Labs Air Matrix IC's or any of the others any good?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1267592584&/DH-Labs-Air-Matrix

or these Krell Cast cables

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?cablintr&1&ctg&st251

Acoustic Zen WOW-

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Acoustic-Zen-WOW_p_307.html

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1267205984&/Acoustic-Zen-WOW!

[Mr Peabody]

I would probably not use the Krell cables since I expect they were designed specifically to compliment their gear.

I haven't heard them but an audio acquaintance told me the Acoustic Zen is very good.

Not that familiar with DH Labs but it seems some one here uses them.

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, does A+ give any reason why their cables need break in?

[Smokey]

A question comes to mind. Will full break-in always result in maximum improvements in overall sound with a specific interconnect? In your system or mine, I would think there has to be an optimum where synergy with the system results. What if, as with the situation where there was improvement "out-of-the-box", this was optimum and continued break-in resulted in less than synergistic results?

That is an excellent question, and this is where cable break-in theory goes wary and falls apart because theory is based on hearsay rather than proven scientific facts.

Cable break-in may have many positive facts, but it also have its negatives facts also. So if anybody that believe in cable break-in should also accept the fact that break-in process might not stop at optimum stage and as you said, miss full synergy window as it continue evolving. One can’t have it both ways.

[Mr Peabody]

So when you buy a new pair of shoes and get them broke in they will continue to change until they don't fit any more?

When a speaker is new and then put into operation it takes a while for the voice coil to loosen up and let the speaker function within it's full capacity. It will break in to the parameters it's user operates it in. Once it reaches those parameters and operates within them break in is done. What is there to keep it changing?

I realize we are talking about cable and I acknowledge myself I'm not sure what there is to break in on a cable. If there is break in on a cable, and I don't doubt some one because I haven't noticed it, then I would imagine it would follow the same pattern of anything requiring break in. It functions until certain normal parameters are met and that would be it.

Hypothetically, let's say a cable is A new and B at break in point, if you preferred a certain tonal balance between A and B, maybe you liked it not completely broke in, then your ideal balance would be lost, past up. At that point you would have to settle for what you have or search for a cable that is closer to your ideal response at final break in. You'd also have to ask yourself do the cables sound better in my system at break in than whatever I had prior.

[Smokey]

So when you buy a new pair of shoes and get them broke in they will continue to change until they don't fit any more?

If a person is way overweight and fat, then yes :D

But joking aside, you really can not compare speaker (or shoe) break in with cable since one have dynamic nature while the other have static nature. So the same rule does not apply.


If there is break in on a cable, and I don't doubt some one because I haven't noticed it, then I would imagine it would follow the same pattern of anything requiring break in. It functions until certain normal parameters are met and that would be it.

That does seem like a common sense approach, but problem here is that “certain normal parameters” will never be met since the signal cable is carrying is AC which is always in state of change. So any cable parameters that is effected by the AC signal is also changing too.

For example, if cable get charged up like a capacitor during the upswing of signal, the charge will be dismissed during the downs section of signal.


Hypothetically, let's say a cable is A new and B at break in point, if you preferred a certain tonal balance between A and B, maybe you liked it not completely broke in, then your ideal balance would be lost, past up. At that point you would have to settle for what you have or search for a cable that is closer to your ideal response at final break in. You'd also have to ask yourself do the cables sound better in my system at break in than whatever I had prior.

Then hypothetically, cable manufacture should put a warning label on their cable that cable's sonic quality should be judged during break-in period, not after-since the end result might not be what they want.

[poppachubby]

On the minimalist side of cables, I've also been intrigued with the claims made by Pierre Sprey over at Mapleshade (website is currently under construction) (http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/), but I can't bring myself to pay $30-60 for something that really looks that cheap.
You could always Steampunk them. Lots of jackets and heat shrinks on the market.



That said, I've been told by several people that it outperforms the PBJs by a considerable amount. The other thing I'm wondering about these is if I could simply build similar cables like that myself using good quality solder-less plugs. Anyhow, it may be worth a look-see-hear

It amazes me that for something so simple to create, people aren't more willing to DIY cables. The cost of high end cables should be motivation alone.

My cries for solid core went unacknowledged here, as they have in several other threads. No matter, I will keep spreading the good word. IMO, solid core is the audio Caramilk secret.

I have made several pairs of cables for others, all with positive feedback.

[Florian]

I dont know if this discussion is about audio only cables from Bluejans or not. I recently setup my Sony G70 with some off the shelf 50ft HDMI cable from my BD80 to the HDFury into the G70 and got a lot of noise on the tubes, made movies unberable to watch. I then bought the 50ft HDMI reference cable from Bluejeans (Flagship one) and i dont need the signal repeater anymore. No noise on the tubes either, so i can only recommend the AV reference cable, but man...what a cable :11:

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, does A+ give any reason why their cables need break in?

MrPeabody....This is what Analysis Plus says in the white paper that comes with the cables.


Break-in. Analysis Plus cables normally perform good right out of box, and only improve with time. Most reviewers have been very consistent in stating that they feel the break-in time is about 300 hours. Of-course, systems vary, so in your case, more time may be neccessary, but rest assured, the result will be worth the wait.

When I first got my interconnect, I could hear the difference at once compared to my old cable. But I will tell you the sound stage was not until I got a little run in time on the cables and the higher detail got better.


frenchmon

[frenchmon]

Are these DH Labs Air Matrix IC's or any of the others any good?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1267592584&/DH-Labs-Air-Matrix

or these Krell Cast cables

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?cablintr&1&ctg&st251

Acoustic Zen WOW-

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Acoustic-Zen-WOW_p_307.html

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1267205984&/Acoustic-Zen-WOW!


When I was doing research on interconnect cables, I read very positive reviews about DH labs and Acoustic Zen cable. If I remember correctly, DH Labs makes cable for others who sell cables under a different name.

I found a few reviews where shoot-outs where done with Acoustic Zen and Analysis Plus. Both Cables are said to be very close in production of detail an warmth. I assume that's why they are compared so much. But most prefer the Acoustic Zen. Here's one review by 6.moons that has compared the two. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/analysis+/solo.html

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Florian, long time, I thought you faded into the sunset :)

[blackraven]

Frenchie, I'm looking at the Acoustic Zen WOW cables not the silvers which are a step above.

[frenchmon]

Oh ...from what I've read the WOW are good cables as well. I've Never heard them. Hope you find a good cable. You really have nice gear, especially that Halo amp. A friend of mine has that same amp, I forget what pre he has but he also has a Vincent tubed CDP and Anthony Gallo speakers. He has XLO interconnect cables and Analysis Plus Oval 12 speaker cable. He said he was dumping the XLO interconnect cable. His system really sounds good with all that power from that amp. I'd love to hear your system with the Halo 21 and the VA Hybrid preamp. Good stuff.

frenchmon

[stevenv]

They are good value for money. No fancy feature just down to earth pricing :)

[manlystanley]

I just received my 2nd set of BJC's analog IC's. My first pair was used to replace the monster cable m950i's that I was using between my preamp and amp. This made a noticeable improvement in the high frequency's with more forward treble and increased resolution and detail. Overall it improved the sound.

I just placed the 2nd pair between my DAC and preamp replacing my monster m1000i's and the results were not so good. After about 2hours of listening the music appears more grainy and busy for lack of a better term. The m1000's gave a more liquid, warmer sound with better bass.

I'll give the BJC's another 20hrs of break in and see if the sound improves and post my impressions then. But I have a feeling that I will end up using the combo of the m1000's and BJC instead of 2 sets of the BJC's.

When I was playing with my cables, I too noticed that there was a difference of results with cable types between my pre and power vs. my CD player and pre. I found the CD and Pre link to be much less sensitive to the monoprice cables. I guessed that the voltage was less in this link? Don't know, but I was thinking about doing the same thing at one time--using different cable for different links.

Best Regards,
Stan

[E-Stat]

I found the CD and Pre link to be much less sensitive to the monoprice cables. I guessed that the voltage was less in this link?
Actually, the nominal output of CDPs and the required input sensitivity of power amps is both around 2 volts. It is more likely related to impedance with the CDP having a lower, more desirable value.

My GamuT CDP has a 4 volt / 75 ohm output which is more than sufficient to drive the amps directly - bypassing the need for a preamp.

rw