Upconverting Vs Blu

[recoveryone]

This is not a thread to start a big brew haha, but as always during this time of year, gifts are brought and given and the calls in how to set this up. With that said My parents picked up a 32" Vizio 1080P LCD a few months back. I was called to hook it up and make all the remotes work/play together. During this install I noticed that the old DVD player I gave them 5-6 years ago had died. I told my sons that they should buy a new DVD player for their grandparents for Christmas. One day in Wal-mart my son walked over to the DVD players to pick one out. I told him to get one that upconverts so it would look nice on the new TV they had brought. We added the new Star Trek movie to seal the gift. Present day, I got that call from my Dad on how to hook the new player up. I went over, used the HDMI cable I slid in as a last minute gift so it would upconvert. We popped in the Star Trek movie and WOW, the PQ was nothing short of my BR copy of the same movie. I scrolled through the menus to make sure all was setup. The info said it was upconverting to 1080i and it looked every bit of it. I sat at the edge of my parents bed and watched this movie, just as I did the other night at my own house.

This is the first upconverting DVD player I've seen (Phillips brand) it was only $50 bucks at Wal-mart. My question is, Is this the norm or just lucky with a newer release DVD.

[02audionoob]

My experience with a Samsung upconverting DVD and a 32-inch Sony LCD connected with HDMI has been pretty much the same.

[pixelthis]

Upconverting will appear to work better on newer movies(the old saying about computers, garbage in, garbage out).
But you don't get any real resolution increase with "upconverters".
THE MAIN IMPROVEMENT you can get with DVD is deinterlacing, this adds real info
by knitting two fields together, you actually see more info on screen.
"UPCONVERTING" is mainly marketing hoopla, although a decent upconverter can massage a pic and get the best outta it.
But the truth is that...
(1) A BLU PLAYER is the champ in so called "upconverting"...
(2) You didnt really need a upconverting DVD player, since your 1080p TV is going to
rescale everything to its native res of 1080p anyway.
Important thing is that the pic is great.
Of course no one on this site will attribute the great pic to the VIZIO monitor
and its capabilities.
Say what you want about them, they make a great monitor, iffen I DO SAY SO MYSELF
(1080P 42" FHTV VIZIO).:1:

[pixelthis]

bY THE BYTHEWAY,
I saw "Dristrict 9" tonight, and while quite good in the picture department,
I could easily tell the diff between it and a BLU(couldnt find a BLU, was lucky to find a DVD)
After months of constant BLU watching you get to where you can tell the diff
quite easily.:1:

[02audionoob]

In my experience, I just attributed the improvement to the elimination of digital/analog conversions.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

When you have nothing to directly compared an upconverted DVD movie to, it can look quite impressive. But when I butterfly split screen a Blu ray movie against its DVD counterpart, then the differences and improvements of Blu ray really stand out. Every area in visual presentation is improved, but most importantly there is always less edge enhancement on the Blu ray(if any at all), and almost always on the DVD.

[pixelthis]

When you have nothing to directly compared an upconverted DVD movie to, it can look quite impressive. But when I butterfly split screen a Blu ray movie against its DVD counterpart, then the differences and improvements of Blu ray really stand out. Every area in visual presentation is improved, but most importantly there is always less edge enhancement on the Blu ray(if any at all), and almost always on the DVD.

So TALKY and I agree on something.
So when does the meteor hit the EARTH?:1:

[audio amateur]

That looks more like another planet than a meteor, lol.
I agree, DVDs can look very good on a hi def screen.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Upconverting will appear to work better on newer movies(the old saying about computers, garbage in, garbage out).
But you don't get any real resolution increase with "upconverters".
THE MAIN IMPROVEMENT you can get with DVD is deinterlacing, this adds real info
by knitting two fields together, you actually see more info on screen.
"UPCONVERTING" is mainly marketing hoopla, although a decent upconverter can massage a pic and get the best outta it.
But the truth is that...
(1) A BLU PLAYER is the champ in so called "upconverting"...
(2) You didnt really need a upconverting DVD player, since your 1080p TV is going to
rescale everything to its native res of 1080p anyway.
Important thing is that the pic is great.
Of course no one on this site will attribute the great pic to the VIZIO monitor
and its capabilities.
Say what you want about them, they make a great monitor, iffen I DO SAY SO MYSELF
(1080P 42" FHTV VIZIO).:1:

Actually Pix, DVD is a interlaced format (480i). The player does the deinterlacing.

[rob_a]

I think some of these new up converting DVD players do a good job of getting a picture close to 1080. I have a Yamaha DVD player that up converts to 1080p and compared to my Blu-ray, the difference is very little. But all in all, the Blu-Ray picture is clearer and tighter with less digital noise and of course the audio is much better then DVD.

Also the larger your screen is, the more you will see the DVD picture quality brake down compared to Blu. That's another thing to think about for those with the 60"+ screens.

[pixelthis]

Actually Pix, DVD is a interlaced format (480i). The player does the deinterlacing.

WHAT I SAID.
But you get a real improvement from deinterlacing, is all I mean.:1:

[pixelthis]

I think some of these new up converting DVD players do a good job of getting a picture close to 1080. I have a Yamaha DVD player that up converts to 1080p and compared to my Blu-ray, the difference is very little. But all in all, the Blu-Ray picture is clearer and tighter with less digital noise and of course the audio is much better then DVD.

Also the larger your screen is, the more you will see the DVD picture quality brake down compared to Blu. That's another thing to think about for those with the 60"+ screens.

It doesnt get a picture "close" to 1080p, it gets it all the way to 1080p
But while the pic is scaled to a different size, there is no increase in resolution.:1:

[Woochifer]

First off, people have to get off this upconversion bandwagon. Anytime you have a HDTV, the picture MUST be upconverted just for that monitor to display a native 480i/480p signal in the first place.

There's nothing magical about an upconverting DVD player. All that an upconverting DVD player does is perform the upconversion BEFORE it gets sent to the TV. If you send a native 480i/p signal (or any nonnative format), then the upconversion gets done BY THE TV. Bottomline, upconversion has to be done at some stage for your TV to display the DVD picture correctly. The only difference is whether that processing is done by your TV or by the DVD player.

In your case, the difference probably has more to with switching from analog video to digital video than anything else (especially if your parents were using low bandwidth composite analog video outputs). Unless there's a huge difference in the video processing capability of your TV vs. the DVD player, I doubt you'll see much difference if you set the DVD player to output the signal in the native 480i resolution or 720p/1080i/p.

In your comparison, were you actually comparing a BD with the DVD on the same TV? These kinds of BD vs DVD comparisons have no credibility unless you're doing them on the same TV using the same settings.

The other issue, as pointed out, is the screen size. At 32", the difference between SD and HD resolution is a lot narrower than on a larger screen. On my 50" TV, the difference between a DVD and BD version of the same movie is almost always huge and very noticeable. I find it laughable anytime I see these tech bloggers (who are more into downloading, which IMO strains their credibility and objectivity) claim that there's little difference between DVD and Blu-ray. If you make that claim, then you might as well go all the way and say that there's little difference between HDTV and SDTV.

[recoveryone]

Well thanks for that input Woo, I have done some side by side viewing on my own HT with just a DVD disc and yes you can tell the difference. I was pointing out how surprised I was at the PQ. It all may be in the newer 1080p monitor my parents purchased. But as advertised, about upconverting players you have to use the HDMI connection for this process to work. I made sure they would be able to get all they can out of this bedroom setup. Now if all of this upconverting talk is a bunch of hoeey and their is no such thing (as you are saying) then it is/was one of the biggest smoke and mirrors tricks of this decade. I have no opinion either way for this was the first time I have ever used or viewed one in action. I was just interested in was what I saw the norm or luck. I'm sure I may not get the same results from a older disc, but if I did, this could hold off the wave of the BR landslide that every studio and retailer are supporting. Just a others have said I will not be replacing all of my DVD titles with BR just as I did not with my VHS collection with DVD titles.

[02audionoob]

Which wire were they using, before you switched them over to HDMI?

[recoveryone]

Which wire were they using, before you switched them over to HDMI?

They did not have a DVD connected to the new TV, the old player they had died. This is why I had my sons buy them a new one for Xmas. So there was nothing to compare but my own system at home. I had just watch the same movie the night before on my setup. Not saying it was better, but the PQ was very very nice and much more than I expected. I guess the point I may be directing towards is if a $50.00 upconverting player can produce such a nice PQ than the DVD format may not be on its way out the door. The only other factor that will kill off DVD is pricing, I have not paid over $19.00 for the few BR titles I have and the lowest was $15.00 for the latest Harry Potter release that came with the Norm DVD, BR and Dig copy.

My Parents, like many others in their age bracket (late 70's/early 80's) are not real concern about HDTV, BR and all the other newer stuff coming out. If not for me my parents would still be using their rotary phone (if it works why change it) as my Dad would say. The way I look at it, I'm just building up my inheirtence...lol:blush2:

[02audionoob]

What type video connection do you use on your system at home? I was just trying to understand what you're comparing the picture quality to.

[recoveryone]

What type video connection do you use on your system at home? I was just trying to understand what you're comparing the picture quality to.

My system is listed below, the BR player is connected HDMI along with the Cable box. All of my components are run through the Pioneer AV and outputted to the Vizio.

[02audionoob]

My system is listed below, the BR player is connected HDMI along with the Cable box. All of my components are run through the Pioneer AV and outputted to the Vizio.

I thought maybe you had also had the opportunity to compare it to a DVD player on another connection. However, I see now the only comparison you've made is the one you described...your Blu-ray versus their upscaling DVD. Anyway...I'm like you...seeing a DVD picture through HDMI on these smaller LCDs that looks fantastic. The HDMI output on the DVD player is undoubtedly the way to go, upscaled or not.

[Woochifer]

Well thanks for that input Woo, I have done some side by side viewing on my own HT with just a DVD disc and yes you can tell the difference. I was pointing out how surprised I was at the PQ. It all may be in the newer 1080p monitor my parents purchased. But as advertised, about upconverting players you have to use the HDMI connection for this process to work.

Upconversion will work with analog component video as well (at least with those players that output the upconverted signal through the analog video section). Component video has much more bandwidth and signal separation than composite (which I presume your parents were using) or S-video. It can carry a HD and/or progressive video signal, while those other connections cannot.


Now if all of this upconverting talk is a bunch of hoeey and their is no such thing (as you are saying) then it is/was one of the biggest smoke and mirrors tricks of this decade. I have no opinion either way for this was the first time I have ever used or viewed one in action.

I'm not saying there's no such thing. I'm simply pointing out that the upconversion process has to be done at some stage just for a HDTV to correctly display the signal. Like I said, either your TV or the DVD player will do the upconverting.

If you want to see the effect from JUST the upconversion, then play it back at the native 480i resolution, then compare it to what you see using any of the upconverted settings. Playing it back at 480i, the TV is doing all of the signal processing. Playing it back at 1080p, the DVD player does all of the processing.

Upconverting DVD players have been incorrectly/deceptively marketed. While they indeed output a 1080p signal, the original content remains the same 480i DVD content as before and that's the source of confusion for consumers. They simply cannot manufacture resolution that wasn't there in the first place.

The transition from an older DVD player to a newer upconverting model entails many changes, i.e., composite/S-vid to HDMI, differences in the signal processing, etc. Each of these changes will affect the video quality. The upconversion process is just one change among many.

In years past, HDTVs did a poor job with deinterlacing and scaling. That's why progressive scan DVD players first came onto the market. Nowadays, the processors built into HDTVs are a lot better, so the need for upconverting DVD players has diminished as the built-in HDTV video processors have improved.


I was just interested in was what I saw the norm or luck. I'm sure I may not get the same results from a older disc, but if I did, this could hold off the wave of the BR landslide that every studio and retailer are supporting. Just a others have said I will not be replacing all of my DVD titles with BR just as I did not with my VHS collection with DVD titles.

What you observed is a new TV and a new DVD player. If you like the results with Star Trek, then you'll probably still like the results with most other DVDs. Switch off the upconversion, and you'll probably still like what you see. If you want to see lesser video quality, then try the analog composite video connectors.

If you want a true "upconverting vs Blu" comparison, then you need to plug a Blu-ray player in and compare that to the upconverting DVD player.

[02audionoob]

Upconversion will work with analog component video as well (at least with those players that output the upconverted signal through the analog video section). Component video has much more bandwidth and signal separation than composite (which I presume your parents were using) or S-video. It can carry a HD and/or progressive video signal, while those other connections cannot.


The protection on upconverters is such that they will not show upconverted video from a pre-recorded DVD to the analog output.

[Woochifer]

The protection on upconverters is such that they will not show upconverted video from a pre-recorded DVD to the analog output.

Yep, you're right. Anything with the CSS encryption key will not be upconverted.