Musical Fidelity VDAC

[LeRoy]

I am placing an order today for the MFVAC through AudioAdvisor. This is going to be my first time in DAC world so I really don't know what to expect to gain but since the price is right and I already have the XRAY I figured it would be a safe hedge.

The other DAC that caught my interest was from Music Hall because it has a tube output but I was not willing to buy into that until I read some reviews on it.

At any rate....I shall find out what the MFDAC does with the XRAY/BELLES/Mordaunt-Short set up.

LeRoy

[Feanor]

I'll be very glad to hear your review if you get the VDAC or other moderately priced DAC.

Personally I'm interested in the VDAC, the Music Hall, and the Cambridge Dacmagic; also in some of the semi-DIY DACs on eBay. My old Asseblage DAC 1.5 could likely be improved upon and, in any case, doesn't play hi rez.

[LeRoy]

I'll be very glad to hear your review if you get the VDAC or other moderately priced DAC.

Personally I'm interested in the VDAC, the Music Hall, and the Cambridge Dacmagic; also in some of the semi-DIY DACs on eBay. My old Asseblage DAC 1.5 could likely be improved upon and, in any case, doesn't play hi rez.

Lucky for me my local audio dealer/friend has the Cambridge DAC so once the VDAC comes in I will be able to A/B compare the two. I will surely let you know my thoughts on the SQ once I shoot-em out.

LeRoy

[frenchmon]

LeRoy....I'd be surprised if the VDAC is better than the Xray. I used a Cambridge D-magic for a while with my Rotel CDP and the difference was very very minor. The only difference was a small tonal difference with the Dmagic being a slight sweeter in the tone, so I sent it back. I think the tube DAC that is part of the Xray outfit would be a great addition...it can be had for about $500.

I believe the VDAC would shine with a computer based system rather than with the Xray. I have been plaining on getting the VDAC to pair with my laptop but just haven't done it as of yet. Let me know what you think....I hear good things about the VDAC. I read some good things about the Music Hall as well, but only after they have been tube rolled.

fenchmon

[LeRoy]

It turns out my audio dealer/friend already shipped out the Cambridge unit to his other shop in Mexico City. I was then hoping to compare the XRAY and VDAC combination against the Bel Canto Integrated with Wadia Dac but he is shipping those pieces out on Monday to M.City as well.

So, he is going to try to arrange a one day comparison between the XRAY/VDAC, Benchmark DAC, and Music Hall DAC. Roger (my audio dealer/friend) called up a couple of his other audio buddies and is making arrangements for one day loaners so we can compare the DAC's against each other.

One thing I was surprised not to find on the XRAY was a SPDIF output. I thought it had SPIDIF but the XRAY only has analog out, Digital Coax, and Optical. When I looked at the VDAC it has a SPIDF input so I presumed the XRAY had the equivalent output. Well, that's what I get for not checking.

Like Frenchmon said...I can always return the VDAC within 30 days. What I am trying to extract from the XRAY is "texture' or "body" that I think it is lacking. I really do enjoy the XRAY and I won't part with it even if I can't wring anything else out of it. :)

[frenchmon]

It turns out my audio dealer/friend already shipped out the Cambridge unit to his other shop in Mexico City. I was then hoping to compare the XRAY and VDAC combination against the Bel Canto Integrated with Wadia Dac but he is shipping those pieces out on Monday to M.City as well.

So, he is going to try to arrange a one day comparison between the XRAY/VDAC, Benchmark DAC, and Music Hall DAC. Roger (my audio dealer/friend) called up a couple of his other audio buddies and is making arrangements for one day loaners so we can compare the DAC's against each other.

One thing I was surprised not to find on the XRAY was a SPDIF output. I thought it had SPIDIF but the XRAY only has analog out, Digital Coax, and Optical. When I looked at the VDAC it has a SPIDF input so I presumed the XRAY had the equivalent output. Well, that's what I get for not checking.

Like Frenchmon said...I can always return the VDAC within 30 days. What I am trying to extract from the XRAY is "texture' or "body" that I think it is lacking. I really do enjoy the XRAY and I won't part with it even if I can't wring anything else out of it. :)


What do you mean by texture or body?

frenchmon

[LeRoy]

What do you mean by texture or body?

frenchmon

By texture/body I mean I am wanting to hear some vividness/organic realism. I know I am asking a lot since I am not running any tubes whatsoever. When I listen to my buddy's Lektor CDP (tubed output), with the Belles VT01 (tubed pre-amp) through the Reference 3A Episodes....it's like being able to feel the texture/body of the music in the air in front of me. I know my $2.5K system should not perform like a $25K system but I am trying to get a little bit of that vividness into my rig by trying out some DACs and maybe get lucky enough to find a DAC that can provide an organic boost into my set up.

[frenchmon]

If what you mean by vividness is a sense of realism and life-likeness, and character I have that with my system and I have a total solid state system. I have completely stayed away from all dac's as I feel it does not need one. But I have read that the dac that is part of the Xray series, the Dac v8, if added to the Xray would give it a sound very close to the very expensive KW DM25 Transport and DAC which has a retail price of $7000.I believe the Xray is a musical player. While not as warm as Mr.Peabodys system, I have a rather warm synergy going on with my gear. Do you feel the Xray is on the warm musical side of neutral? I think so. I did mate the Xray with Mr. Peabodys tubed Conrad Johnson and it was a match made in audio heaven. The Xray had even a more smoother sweet sound in his system as if it was a tubed component it self. I am totally satisfied with the Xray.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

What interconnect cables and speaker cables do you use LeRoy? Sense I upgraded all my cables and speaker wire to Analysis Plus, it helped also with the warm sound seeing that A+ is a warm cable. I didn't know it before I got the A+ cables and speaker wire, but the sound stage was not as it should have been until I got the A+ and noticed that the stage was greater with voices as if they where singing before me live. For the first time I can concur with those who have said they can picture where each instrument is on the stage on certain recordings.

frenchmon

[LeRoy]

But I have read that the dac that is part of the Xray series, the Dac v8, if added to the Xray would give it a sound very close to the very expensive KW DM25 Transport and DAC which has a retail price of $7000.I believe the Xray is a musical player. Do you feel the Xray is on the warm musical side of neutral? I think so. frenchmon

Thanks for the info...I did look for the V8 DAC on A.A. but did not see it. Do you know of an online retailer that has it? Yes, I would agree the XRAY is on the warm side of musical. I am satisfied with the XRAY but wanting to tweak my system in favor of life-like musical texture in the room.

I have plugged the XRAY into the Belles VT01, Belles LA01, with very expensive cabling and to my ears the music still lacked the body/texture that I am trying to achieve with the XRAY.

If the VDAC does not provide the changes I am looking for then I will have to send it back and try to find the V8.

[LeRoy]

What interconnect cables and speaker cables do you use LeRoy? Sense I upgraded all my cables and speaker wire to Analysis Plus, it helped also with the warm sound seeing that A+ is a warm cable. I didn't know it before I got the A+ cables and speaker wire, but the sound stage was not as it should have been until I got the A+ and noticed that the stage was greater with voices as if they where singing before me live. For the first time I can concur with those who have said they can picture where each instrument is on the stage on certain recordings.
frenchmon

You got a good point Frenchmon. I am using Chord Carnival Silver Screen speaker wire and I really don't know the manufacturer of the nana's on them. I am going to talk to my audio dealer friend and have him terminate the speaker wires with A+ product as that is what he uses for his custom cables.

[frenchmon]

Thanks for the info...I did look for the V8 DAC on A.A. but did not see it. Do you know of an online retailer that has it? Yes, I would agree the XRAY is on the warm side of musical. I am satisfied with the XRAY but wanting to tweak my system in favor of life-like musical texture in the room.

I have plugged the XRAY into the Belles VT01, Belles LA01, with very expensive cabling and to my ears the music still lacked the body/texture that I am trying to achieve with the XRAY.

If the VDAC does not provide the changes I am looking for then I will have to send it back and try to find the V8.

I don know where you can get one but talk to Ajani....I think he knows a dealer who has the Musical Fidelity Xray series. The only other place I've seen one is on Audiogon every now and again.


frenchmon

[frenchmon]

If you dont mind LeRoy can you discribe your listening room? Is it a dedicated 2 channel room? Do you have room treatments? How do you have your Xray positioned? I have the power supply and the transport side by side upon blocks. This improved the sound more than a bit. I also did my SACD with the same results. All the cabling and speaker wire is the same brand and series. I put reflection points on the side wall, back wall and on the floor before the speakers. I was surprised at what these simple tweaks did for the overall sound. I've been told that if I put the amp and pre amp on blocks as well it will also improve the sound. I sit about 9 ft away from my speakers and the speakers are about 9 ft from one another. The room is about 15X15...I thought it was a little bigger until I measured it. I put bass traps in the corners. I've done a lots to improve the sound in the room. Im just tweaking to get the best sound possible. One other thing...the Xray is nice quality of an amp. Its above the Rotels, Cambridges and NAD's of the world in performance. It think your Belles gear may be in the same class. I think my Rotel is the week link in my system. So I know that I may have reached the sound maximum with mine until I move up in class to match the Xray. But I think I have vividness that you say you lack. It may be because of the cables, or it may be a combination of all that I did. Or It may just be all in my head.

frenchmon

[LeRoy]

..but won't have any time to fool around with it until this weekend.

No bass traps in my room or any kind of room treatment whatsoever. My listening room is approx 13 ft wide, 19 feet long, and the ceiling slopes from about 9.5 ft to 8.5 ft, left to right.

I like to listen from 12-15 feet away from the speakers, in the sweet spot, of course.

Yes, the Belles is quite compatible with the M.F, and the M.S.

With regard to cabling...I intend to tweak it, however, I've plugged the XRAY into top of the line Belles AMP, Belles PRE, Reference 3A Episodes, and thousand dollar speaker wires, IC, and power conditioning and the sound still lacked the body/texture I am looking to add. So, once I put the VDAC into play.......

[poppachubby]

With regard to cabling...I intend to tweak it, however, I've plugged the XRAY into top of the line Belles AMP, Belles PRE, Reference 3A Episodes, and thousand dollar speaker wires, IC, and power conditioning and the sound still lacked the body/texture I am looking to add. So, once I put the VDAC into play.......

I'm not sure how a DAC will help you here. That's a nice list of equipment. I think room treatment is more likely the culprit. I'll be amazed if a dac solves all of your problems, hopefully it does.

I plan to get the Grant Fidelity tube dac, once I take care of some other pressing issues. Right now I'm using a simple, and yes, cheap, NOS dac with a Phillips 1543 chip. I'll tell you, it sounds brilliant. Source material has to be excellent. I am now addicted to jazz as this thing makes horns sound so alive and real. The 1543 chip is old as dirt, but I love it! The circuit is simple, and thus makes the price low, so cheap isn't derogatory here.

http://i12.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/2e/d2/b045_35.JPG

Hope it all works out...

[LeRoy]

I'm not sure how a DAC will help you here. That's a nice list of equipment. I think room treatment is more likely the culprit. I'll be amazed if a dac solves all of your problems, hopefully it does.

I plan to get the Grant Fidelity tube dac, once I take care of some other pressing issues. Right now I'm using a simple, and yes, cheap, NOS dac with a Phillips 1543 chip. I'll tell you, it sounds brilliant. Source material has to be excellent. I am now addicted to jazz as this thing makes horns sound so alive and real. The 1543 chip is old as dirt, but I love it! The circuit is simple, and thus makes the price low, so cheap isn't derogatory here.

http://i12.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/2e/d2/b045_35.JPG

Hope it all works out...

I will certainly have to look into those products you listed. Thank you for the info.....Tonight, I finally got to hook up the VDAC, connected to a Toshiba laptop PC, and running it all into the Evolved Sonic amp/receiver with the Reference 3A episodes and then switching out speakers to the M.S. 902's

I can tell you that no doubt the VAC is much, much, more musical than the DAC in the laptop but that's no surprise here. I was running the VDAC through the USB connection so there was no opportunity this evening to test how the VDAC would sound via a CD transport.

My audio buddy and I are still contacting other audio lunatics so we can shoot it out with other DACS in a variety of system configurations. I plan on taking my Rega Brio 3 over later this week while trying to get the tubed DAC from Music Hall.

Of course we will eventually run the DAC's through my XRAY, the Lektor CDP, and a Wadia transport too. The lunatic that I am....I ordered a Stello Transport today...should have that in about a week....stay tuned...

[LeRoy]

Last night the first showdown between the 2 dacs's it was no lo contendre. The VDAC was balanced top to bottom, better separation of the instruments and voices,better tonality, bass was snappy and the over all ebb/flow of the music pace was typical of Musical Fidelity....it was very good.

In comparison, the Music Hall sounded more closed in/congested. The Music Hall DAC, even after approx 45 min of continuous use still did not get any better. The VDAC, cold, immediately impressed.

The DACS were used in a configuration using Evolved Sonic amp transmitter/receiver, Toshiba laptop pc where the music was stored, and my trusty Mordaunt Short 902's.

On Thursday evening.... the plan is to shoot out the DACs again but this time using the Rega Brio 3, XRAY, and Reference 3A Episodes. Of course we will swap out the speakers to the 902's as well.

Round one was hugely in favor of the VDAC.

[Luvin Da Blues]

........In comparison, the Music Hall sounded more closed in/congested..........


I find this also when using the single ended connections. Maybe a tube swap would help. Have you tried the balance outputs? Makes for a world of difference.

[poppachubby]

Hmmmm, so what's the plan here LeRoy? Havin some fun and then settle the DAC into your system? I am interested to see if it corrects the issues you seem to be having, or have you determined that it has/will?

[LeRoy]

I find this also when using the single ended connections. Maybe a tube swap would help. Have you tried the balance outputs? Makes for a world of difference.

I have not tried any other connections on the M.H. other than the USB. I will have to investigate the other outputs as time allows for it. Since it's a loaner made available to me I don't want to mess with changing out tubes just yet.

Hopefully I will have more time this weekend to putz around with different connectivity and give it another round. Besides, I am anticipating the Stello transport to be arriving any day now so I really am going spend lots of QT with the gear.

[LeRoy]

Hmmmm, so what's the plan here LeRoy? Havin some fun and then settle the DAC into your system? I am interested to see if it corrects the issues you seem to be having, or have you determined that it has/will?

Well, last night I connected the VDAC to the XRAY, all to the Rega Brio 3 and the Mordaunt Short 902's. The VDAC sounded deeper in the bass but with less control and overall sounded more creamy in comparison to just using the XRAY. In comparing the SQ of the VDAC to the XRAY, I preferred the XRAY alone in this configuration.

You are right. The VDAC is not going to be the solution in my attempt to get more texture. There really is no problem with the musical presentation and I am quite pleased with the XRAY, Rega, MS configuration or the XRAY, Belles, MS configuration as well. The problem seems to be "me". I want to try to put some tube magic somewhere in the system without having to buy a new tubed amp or tubed pre-amp and I thought the place to do it and get the texture I am looking would/could possibly be found in a different DAC.

Yes, its been fun. The Fullers Porter, Samuel Smiths Oatmeal Stout, Rouge Chocolate Stout, and Czar Stout has been a motivator with all the gear swapping, remote button pushing, and CD changing...:)

Yes sir, I am going to try the DACS again but with the Stello transport ...which is due in any day now...simply for comparison....I am going to ask my buddy to allow me to use his Reference 3A Episodes with the Sello Tranport/Rega Brio 3, and then compare each DAC.

I probably will have to bring some Coffee Porter for that one...lol

[poppachubby]

Back to my point, acoustics. Can you post a photo/plan of the room? Specs? I bet the farm that sound you want is in the form of an easy and affordable room change.

Check out the Grant Fidelity tube stage, heard alot of good stuff about it. Pretty cheap, under $200 I think.

Glad to hear you're having fun. I have a wife and 2 small kids. It's fun but in a diaper changing kind of way. Enjoy yourself!!!

[frenchmon]

Last night the first showdown between the 2 dacs's it was no lo contendre. The VDAC was balanced top to bottom, better separation of the instruments and voices,better tonality, bass was snappy and the over all ebb/flow of the music pace was typical of Musical Fidelity....it was very good.

In comparison, the Music Hall sounded more closed in/congested. The Music Hall DAC, even after approx 45 min of continuous use still did not get any better. The VDAC, cold, immediately impressed.

The DACS were used in a configuration using Evolved Sonic amp transmitter/receiver, Toshiba laptop pc where the music was stored, and my trusty Mordaunt Short 902's.

On Thursday evening.... the plan is to shoot out the DACs again but this time using the Rega Brio 3, XRAY, and Reference 3A Episodes. Of course we will swap out the speakers to the 902's as well.

Round one was hugely in favor of the VDAC.

I've read reports that the Music Hall has to be tube rolled in order to get the right sound.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

Well, last night I connected the VDAC to the XRAY, all to the Rega Brio 3 and the Mordaunt Short 902's. The VDAC sounded deeper in the bass but with less control and overall sounded more creamy in comparison to just using the XRAY. In comparing the SQ of the VDAC to the XRAY, I preferred the XRAY alone in this configuration.

You are right. The VDAC is not going to be the solution in my attempt to get more texture. There really is no problem with the musical presentation and I am quite pleased with the XRAY, Rega, MS configuration or the XRAY, Belles, MS configuration as well. The problem seems to be "me". I want to try to put some tube magic somewhere in the system without having to buy a new tubed amp or tubed pre-amp and I thought the place to do it and get the texture I am looking would/could possibly be found in a different DAC.

Yes, its been fun. The Fullers Porter, Samuel Smiths Oatmeal Stout, Rouge Chocolate Stout, and Czar Stout has been a motivator with all the gear swapping, remote button pushing, and CD changing...:)

Yes sir, I am going to try the DACS again but with the Stello transport ...which is due in any day now...simply for comparison....I am going to ask my buddy to allow me to use his Reference 3A Episodes with the Sello Tranport/Rega Brio 3, and then compare each DAC.

I probably will have to bring some Coffee Porter for that one...lol

Dont know for sure but you may find the texture you are looking for if you can find the V8 DAC which has a tube stage.

frenchmon

[LeRoy]

Back to my point, acoustics. Can you post a photo/plan of the room? Specs? I bet the farm that sound you want is in the form of an easy and affordable room change.

Check out the Grant Fidelity tube stage, heard alot of good stuff about it. Pretty cheap, under $200 I think.

Glad to hear you're having fun. I have a wife and 2 small kids. It's fun but in a diaper changing kind of way. Enjoy yourself!!!

I don't have a digital camera so unable to post pics..My listening room is approx 19' L x 13' W x and the ceiling slopes L to R from approx 9.5' to 8.5'.

I purposely took my gear to by buddy's house so I could listen to it in a different environment and see if I could detect any differences. The only difference I could detect was a little edge taken off the high end as I do have the speakers in my listening room closer to the side and front walls as opposed to how I have it set up over there further away from the walls. No difference in perceived texture though.

I will have to check out the Grant Fidelity next...tubes and the price is right...interesting and thanks again for the suggestion and for your insights..

LeRoy

[LeRoy]

I find this also when using the single ended connections. Maybe a tube swap would help. Have you tried the balance outputs? Makes for a world of difference.

As it turns out...we don't have any balanced output cables to play with and even if we did the Belles Soloist Pre-Amp and the Rega Brio 3 Integrated don't have balanced input connectivity. So, the testing of the Music Hall is over and done with.

I was surprised to find the M.H. to be such a large unit and is about the same size as my XRAY CDP. Anyway, no way I can give any kind of overall fair assessment of the M.H. DAC without trying out the different options for connectivity.

[LeRoy]

Dont know for sure but you may find the texture you are looking for if you can find the V8 DAC which has a tube stage.

frenchmon

With regard to tube rolling....that would be something to do if I owned the unit but the M.H. is a loaner and I would not want to be fooling around with tube swapping with gear that I don't own. As it turned out my connectivity options are very limited so the MH DAC experiment is now aborted.

Ya, the V8 has my interest and so does Poppa's recommendation of Grant Fidelity tube dac. Now it's just a matter of time and hunting one down.

I am going to keep the VDAC anyway since I have a Stello transport en route. Also, with the VDAC being a point of reference for comparison I will be better able to assess the SQ from one to the other. I think 2010 is shaping up to be the year of the DAC for me.