Bush ads ripping Kerry.

[bturk667]

They said he voted against a bill that would provide our troops with much needed body armor. Did this bill pass?

[karl k]

They said he voted against a bill that would provide our troops with much needed body armor. Did this bill pass?
Body armor, or resources?

[FLZapped]

They said he voted against a bill that would provide our troops with much needed body armor. Did this bill pass?

Yes, the bill passed. -Bruce

[bturk667]

Another question then. According to the AP, soilders headed for Iraq are still buying their own body armor! How is this possible if the bill passed? A father paid $1400 for body armor for his son. Should the government be doing that? Is not the government responsible for they saftey of our troops?

Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, who serves on the Armed Services subcommittee, said she knows soilder who were told by the military to buy body armor before leaving, rather than risk arriving with nothing but their shirts.

The biggets joke? A bill being considered in Congress would reimburse families who bought body armor before the Army asked for increased production. Well, isn't that nice! They have to be kiddy. If families can purchase body armor why can not the Army?

Kerry deserves to be ripped! However, does not the military deserve to be ripped more? YES!!! Not only are these soldiers doing an invaluable service for us, but were making tham pay for their own protection?

Shame on the military, Congress, and President Bush! If these groups are not making sure our troops are protected, then who will? Maybe President Bush should be spending less money on his attack ads and spend it on body armor for the troops he is sending to protect us! I'm sure he can get reimbursed!

Just a thought!

[jeskibuff]

Bruno, here's a decent analysis of the truth behind the ads, if you're still looking for it:
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=155

According to the AP, soilders headed for Iraq are still buying their own body armor! How is this possible if the bill passed? A father paid $1400 for body armor for his son.
By now, we should ALL know how slowly a government organization can act to get something done. First of all, there's the supply-and-demand problem. I'm sure that the companies that produce these vests hadn't trusted that the bill would have passed and they'd be left with thousands of unsold state-of-the-art armored vests that have little value outside of military applications. That means that once they have a purchase order in hand and therefore a guarantee that they WILL be paid, they go ahead with production. So now you have sudden demand to produce thousands of these things, but limited production capabilities. In other words, just because congress says "okay", doesn't mean that all these vests will be airdropped into Iraq via FedEx Overnight Delivery. I'm sure that once the vests are manufactured, they will run through the delivery process, but that means that until there's one for every soldier, there will be power struggles and allocation battles with the ones that become available. So in the meantime, a father shortcuts the process and drops $1400 to ensure that his son is protected and doesn't have to wait to get his vest.
If families can purchase body armor why can not the Army?I would hope the Army is buying in bulk and paying quite a bit less for each vest than $1400. If individuals come along and want to pay the full tab to get their children protected, what's to prevent the manufacturer from selling one to them? Also, other people may have purchased them beforehand and resell them at a profit to these parents. Would you want them arrested for being capitalists and foreseeing a demand?

Not only are these soldiers doing an invaluable service for us, but were making tham pay for their own protection?Nope, sorry. They have protection, just not the state-of-the-art protection. And the bill WILL fill that gap. It just takes some time. If you want instant results, maybe you should vote for Barbara Eden in November. All she has to do is twitch her nose and *POOF*...state-of-the-art ceramic bulletproof vests for EVERYBODY! :D

[mtrycraft]

They said he voted against a bill that would provide our troops with much needed body armor. Did this bill pass?


Is one bill ever so simple that only one law is in there, or is it full of pork or other nonessential bills? So, we don't really know why he voted against it, right? Something else in there that had problems?

[jeskibuff]

Is one bill ever so simple that only one law is in there, or is it full of pork or other nonessential bills? So, we don't really know why he voted against it, right? I believe that he has stated that he voted against it because he didn't agree with "Bush's War" and didn't want to write a "blank check" on Bush's "failed Iraq policy". He also tried using his vote as leverage for his demands: that Bush reverse some tax cuts. It was his way of playing political games, but in the end, his "nay" vote didn't have much weight, so it turns out he really didn't have any leverage at all. The body armor portion of the bill was just a small part of the $87B, but from my understanding, there was little to no pork in it.

[karl k]

I believe that he has stated that he voted against it because he didn't agree with "Bush's War" and didn't want to write a "blank check" on Bush's "failed Iraq policy". He also tried using his vote as leverage for his demands: that Bush reverse some tax cuts. It was his way of playing political games, but in the end, his "nay" vote didn't have much weight, so it turns out he really didn't have any leverage at all. The body armor portion of the bill was just a small part of the $87B, but from my understanding, there was little to no pork in it.
The idea that the voted against it before he voted for it was exactly the case. He voted against it and proposed an alternative way of paying for it by repealing the Bush tax cut for the top 2% income only(leaving the midclass still in place) instead of just adding it to the deficit. When it(Kerry's plan) was voted down, Kerry did finally vote for the 87Bil. that was originally proposed so the military would still get what they needed. He really didn't disagree with the content of the bill, just how it was being paid for.

Nothing wrong about being accountable for what you wish to spend and how it will be paid for in my book. I think he made the right call in both nay and yea votes. IMO :)

[bturk667]

I'd rather vote for Barbara Eden than Geroge W. Bush!

Time is something these soldiers do not have! They can not sit back and wait, they have to go to Iraq now; body armor or not. If it was your ass on the line, I wonder if you would echo the same sentiment? I know two people going over their in June. They sure as hell want their body armor, and they want the government to provide it!. I wonder if it were your ass on the line if you would feel the same way you do in your post?


Excuses, excuses, and more excuses. This had been a topic of discussion even before we went to war. Again, if the parents of troops are able to purchase the body armor; how come our government can not? There seems to be enough of a supply know doesn't there? Oh yeah, in the same article the military said the short fall was over!

[mtrycraft]

The idea that the voted against it before he voted for it was exactly the case. He voted against it and proposed an alternative way of paying for it by repealing the Bush tax cut for the top 2% income only(leaving the midclass still in place) instead of just adding it to the deficit. When it(Kerry's plan) was voted down, Kerry did finally vote for the 87Bil. that was originally proposed so the military would still get what they needed. He really didn't disagree with the content of the bill, just how it was being paid for.

Nothing wrong about being accountable for what you wish to spend and how it will be paid for in my book. I think he made the right call in both nay and yea votes. IMO :)


As I said, it isn't as simple as first painted it to be, not in politics:)

[karl k]

As I said, it isn't as simple as first painted it to be, not in politics:)
I think it's a shame that so many rely on such deception to gain allies...

I also think it's a shame there's so many that are so willing to take such people at face value.

[FLZapped]

The idea that the voted against it before he voted for it was exactly the case. He voted against it and proposed an alternative way of paying for it by repealing the Bush tax cut for the top 2% income only(leaving the midclass still in place) instead of just adding it to the deficit. When it(Kerry's plan) was voted down, Kerry did finally vote for the 87Bil. that was originally proposed so the military would still get what they needed. He really didn't disagree with the content of the bill, just how it was being paid for.

Nothing wrong about being accountable for what you wish to spend and how it will be paid for in my book. I think he made the right call in both nay and yea votes. IMO :)

You have it backward. He voted for it initially and then voted against it on final passage.

Regardless of his reasons, he still voted against final passage. It's a classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

-Bruce