A few thoughts on a Cambridge Audio system

[LeRoy]

Sonata CD30 CD player, Sonata AR30 AM/FM/Sirius Ready 2.1 receiver, Sirocco S70 floorstanding loudspeaker, Kimber speaker cables, and custom BMA interconnects and powercords.

I listened to the above system last night at my local audio dealer's home. The short version of this post is simply to state the system is simply "fair" or "decent".

I thought the S70's were disappointing at their price point, $600.00/pr. Out of the box the mids are neutral and treble is under control with sufficient detail without sounding bright. Overall, I thought the speaker had decent tonal accuracy. The bass really could not be evaluated fairly since this listen was a first listen right out the box. Visually, these speaker look pretty cool with their plinth on and only stand about 36" tall. The gill needs to come off as their presentation into the room was hampered with the grills on. Even with the grills off the speaker..the best description I can give hereis that soundstaging is not their strong suit. The speakers really don't project any feeling of texture to the body of music and separation of instruments were again fair or decent.

I had listened to the Usher S-520's earlier in the week through the same Cambridge Sonata electronics and the Usher's are simply more musical and have more verve or panache in their presentation. The Sonata is "okay" for a budget system but no sonic miracles or grand slam to be expected within this Cambridge series.

IMHO, the Sirocco series of speakers should be passed on by since I don't feel their performance meets the price. You are better served by products in the same price range from Mordaunt Short, Paradigm, Focal, and Canton.

LeRoy

[Mr Peabody]

The guy should have known better than to show a set of speakers out of the box like that. Many of those weaknesses may have went away after several hours of break in. I do hear good things about Usher and MS though.

So even with the Usher the Cambridge was just so so?

[harley .guy07]

I know several people and review sites and magazines that say that the usher S-520 being one of the best monitor stand mount speakers in their price class so this is no surprise to me. but I happen to be a huge Usher fan anyway after hearing a higher end stand mount and floor standing design that a friend of mine has at his home. they are one of the best speakers out there in their class and I believe usher and Dynaudio both are excellent choices in my opinion. Can't tell you nothing about Cambridge stuff though since I don't have a dealer in my area and don't know anyone that using any of their products.

[LeRoy]

The guy should have known better than to show a set of speakers out of the box like that. Many of those weaknesses may have went away after several hours of break in. I do hear good things about Usher and MS though.

So even with the Usher the Cambridge was just so so?

Yes, today as I was thinking more about the Cambridge system the only word that came to mind to describe the overall character of the sound is "placid". I think the the Cambridge electronics are better matched with speakers that are not from the Cambridge lineup. Ya, and even with the Usher speakers the Cambridge system is simply so-so but at least tolerable to listen to through the Usher's.

With regard to the Cambridge Sonata electronics...for the price point, the consumer is better served by Rega or Music Hall gear.

My impression on the S70 ..is even with allowing proper time for breaking in... the only other merit would be an increase in bass performance but at $600./pr so what. There are still better sounding speakers for the same or less money.

LeRoy

[LeRoy]

I know several people and review sites and magazines that say that the usher S-520 being one of the best monitor stand mount speakers in their price class so this is no surprise to me. but I happen to be a huge Usher fan anyway after hearing a higher end stand mount and floor standing design that a friend of mine has at his home. they are one of the best speakers out there in their class and I believe usher and Dynaudio both are excellent choices in my opinion. Can't tell you nothing about Cambridge stuff though since I don't have a dealer in my area and don't know anyone that using any of their products.

Ya, I used to have a pair of S-520's so I know them well and they are visually pretty and pretty good sounding speakers too. However, my Morduant Short 902's even surpass the S-520's in a no contest kind of way.

Dynaudio is always an excellent and smart buy if it fits the pocketbook that's for sure..

Best to stay clear of the Cambridge Sirocco series as they really aren't going to be worth their retail price.

LeRoy

[harley .guy07]

[QUOTE=LeRoy]Ya, I used to have a pair of S-520's so I know them well and they are visually pretty and pretty good sounding speakers too. However, my Morduant Short 902's even surpass the S-520's in a no contest kind of way.

Yeah I have heard of people beating them with a few very rare speakers in the under 100 dollar class but it is quite hard to do. If I were to look into Usher speakers for under 1000 dollars I would look at the Parts Express Usher 701 kit before getting the 520's. This kit is a sure way to have better sound than the 520 and almost anything else under a thousand bucks but some people are scarred of kit speakers because of their ability to put them together or they do not trust this kind of product but I know that they are good and are very hard to beat for the price.

[nightflier]

While the Cambridge Audio Sonata setup looks nice (haven't actually heard it), I keep thinking that Cambridge is trying too hard to reach above the level of consumer-class that they are pricing themselves out of the market. Their latest crop of amps/preamps are priced pretty high up there, and I really don't know if the consumer at that price point will buy that instead of a competitor's product. The Sonata set seems to me targeted at the Brookstone crowd, but priced well above it - that won't work. Cambridge is a value mass-market manufacturer and for them to break out of that perception will take more than what they are offering now.

[LeRoy]

[QUOTE=LeRoy]Ya, I used to have a pair of S-520's so I know them well and they are visually pretty and pretty good sounding speakers too. However, my Morduant Short 902's even surpass the S-520's in a no contest kind of way.

Yeah I have heard of people beating them with a few very rare speakers in the under 100 dollar class but it is quite hard to do. If I were to look into Usher speakers for under 1000 dollars I would look at the Parts Express Usher 701 kit before getting the 520's. This kit is a sure way to have better sound than the 520 and almost anything else under a thousand bucks but some people are scarred of kit speakers because of their ability to put them together or they do not trust this kind of product but I know that they are good and are very hard to beat for the price.

I'd have to consider myself one of the scared people...lol

[LeRoy]

While the Cambridge Audio Sonata setup looks nice (haven't actually heard it), I keep thinking that Cambridge is trying too hard to reach above the level of consumer-class that they are pricing themselves out of the market. Their latest crop of amps/preamps are priced pretty high up there, and I really don't know if the consumer at that price point will buy that instead of a competitor's product. The Sonata set seems to me targeted at the Brookstone crowd, but priced well above it - that won't work. Cambridge is a value mass-market manufacturer and for them to break out of that perception will take more than what they are offering now.

The Sonata gear looks cool and cute but no way worth the $$.

[harley .guy07]

yeah there are a lot of you guys out there that either are scared of messing things up with a kit or simply do not want to mess with it. But I will say that this kit is the equal to the Usher x-718 and while the 718 is 1400 dollars the Parts Express 701 kit is only about 650 for the pair so you could have four of them for the price of one pair of the Usher x-718. But I will say that the x-718 is a better looking speaker though.

[Mr Peabody]

What's the least expensive MS and does it have a matching center speaker?

I guess I'm being talked about, I can't hammer a nail straight but I can sure push the "ON" button on a remote :)

[LeRoy]

What's the least expensive MS and does it have a matching center speaker?

I purchased the MS at http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php had no problems with placing the order or getting the shipment. If memory serves correct... I had the speakers home in 5 calendar days from placing the order.

MORDAUNT SHORT Avant 902i Bookshelf Speakers Black Pair
Our Price: $225.00
Manufactures part #: AV902iBLK

MORDAUNT SHORT Avant 905i Center Channel Speaker Black Each
Our Price: $250.00
Manufactures part #: AV 905 CiBLK

Check out the reviews here: http://www.mordauntshort.com/reviews.php

A less expensive alternative but not in the same league as the Avant series: http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/

Mordaunt Short Carnival 1, 2-way Shielded Bookshelf Speakers (PAIR)
$169.00

Mordaunt Short Carnival 5, 2-way Shielded Center Channel Speaker (EACH)
$199.00

[nightflier]

I can hammer pretty straight and I can solder OK, but all the kits I've ever built never even came close to looking professional. I've suffered from everything from getting the simulated wood to align without bubbles to that accidental scratch on the faceplate, and I'm pretty sure the sound wasn't all that impressive either. Besides, with kids and limited space, it's even harder to build anything nice - I'm lucky if I have the time to repair things well enough to give them a few more years of life left.

By the way, instead of the CA Sonata, what about the Arcam Solo? I've read some good things about it.

[nightflier]

And now CA has a pricey universal BR player too:

Cambridge - 650BD (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA650BD&utm_source=Email+Newsletters&utm_campaign=6dc61625a1-Have_a_Blu_Blu_Blu_Ray_Holiday_12_14_2009&utm_medium=email)

At $800, I really doubt it will compare to an Oppo SE, but apparently they seem to think so.

[LeRoy]

By the way, instead of the CA Sonata, what about the Arcam Solo? I've read some good things about it.

I've heard the Arcam Solo but that was a new out of the box unit and maybe that was 3 years ago. I can't recall anything about it other than I thought it was an interesting unit. I already have an Arcam HT receiver so I am biased toward Arcam to begin with. Yes, the Arcam Solo does get good press so it might be interesting to see what happens to the price of the Solo with all this new product coming out from the competition.

[Mr Peabody]

Arcam built up their name by providing performance gear at a good price but now have about priced themselves out of the market.

Looks like street price on the 650BD will be about $699.00. There's also a matching 650 receiver.

[harley .guy07]

I can hammer pretty straight and I can solder OK, but all the kits I've ever built never even came close to looking professional. I've suffered from everything from getting the simulated wood to align without bubbles to that accidental scratch on the faceplate, and I'm pretty sure the sound wasn't all that impressive either. Besides, with kids and limited space, it's even harder to build anything nice - I'm lucky if I have the time to repair things well enough to give them a few more years of life left.

By the way, instead of the CA Sonata, what about the Arcam Solo? I've read some good things about it.

I am not sure when you built your kits but the kits at Madisound and Parts Express are of better quality than what you are explaining about the kits you built. They have real veneer cabinets with high quality crossovers with drivers that way exceed anything that is put in a store sold speaker at quite a but more money than the kit and they also look real good as well. There are some people out there that are against kits and I understand that but I have seen and heard excellent results with a lot of the kits that both of these companies sell and trust in both companies for their quality and design ability.

[Mr Peabody]

Let's hope the speaker kits have better workmenship than the put together furniture industry :)

[nightflier]

I've been wanting to build a speaker with ribbon and/or super-tweeters. Maybe I'll give this another try. But I don't ever want to have to glue down simulated wood again - that is a pain.

Getting back to Cambridge, I just checked on pricing for the 840 series amp & pre combo. That pair will set you back almost $4K! And while I'm sure it sounds decent, I just can't imagine it's in that same league. For that kind of coin, I think most buyers would turn to more known brands or at least stuff that's not from the far East - perhaps not Krell, but Anthem, BAT, and yes, even Arcam comes to mind, not to mention smaller guys like Odyssey. Heck if you do want to go East, I bet even an all-out Emotiva setup would cost far less and still compare favorably.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get it out of my head that Cambridge Audio is a made-in-China bargain-priced manufacturer more along the lines of Vincent Audio. They are for the folks that want "to get a taste of what hi-fi is like", as one salesman put it so well. Yes, they have some great values (their 840c), but that is precisely what they are known for: value. I think they are pushing the envelope a little with regard to what people will buy, especially in this economy.

[Mr Peabody]

I agree, if Cambridge is trying to get that kind of money the piece had better impress. I wonder if they aren't trying to do like Arcam. Arcam started out being a big bang for the buck then took the line upstream. So far they've pulled it off. I have to wonder how many of those expensive processors they sell. I haven't heard one but the word is they are very good. Arcam to my ears also excelled in CD playback. I think most everything they do, they try to push the envelope. The funny thing is we need more gear in the cambridge/NAD/Rotel price range, not more gear that requires a 2nd mortgage.

[harley .guy07]

I agree, if Cambridge is trying to get that kind of money the piece had better impress. I wonder if they aren't trying to do like Arcam. Arcam started out being a big bang for the buck then took the line upstream. So far they've pulled it off. I have to wonder how many of those expensive processors they sell. I haven't heard one but the word is they are very good. Arcam to my ears also excelled in CD playback. I think most everything they do, they try to push the envelope. The funny thing is we need more gear in the cambridge/NAD/Rotel price range, not more gear that requires a 2nd mortgage.

thats my point as well. I think that equipment in the more affordable price ranges but is still well built stuff will bring new comers to this hobby and keep people that like myself just can't throw money at equipment like a hollywood movie star but want a good quality system with a long standing build quality. The more I look at the price points and components out there Mr. Peabody is right, We need more equipment in the affordable high end price range. there seems to be a huge gap between mid fi stuff and high end and that bothers me since I know because I have worked in the business that some of these pieces could be priced a little more affordable. I am not sure if it is company greed or just plane snobery that some of this stuff is priced the way it is. But be sure that I am a big fan of high end at real world prices and I believe it is very possible especially with the technology that exists in today's world.

[harley .guy07]

I will add that I remember when Arcam was a more affordable product. I know their stuff is great because I have heard some of it myself and it is very good stuff but in my opinion they kind of went the way a lot of company's go, high end with higher prices which turns a lot of people off when it comes to newcomers to high end or people like me that don't want a 30 year note on a preamp. but that is just my opinion anyway. By the way Mr. Peabody my girlfriend and I were talking the other day about a little get the hell out of town trip some time in the future after the first of the year and St. louis is not that far away and I sure would not mind hearing some of the high end goodies that you have in your system. Especially the Dynaudio's that you have since I have been a fan since they I heard their studio monitors years ago and were floored by them. But I will be on here so maybe we can talk about a time frame for this if you are cool with it.

[Mr Peabody]

That would be fine Harley. I have some time scheduled off in March, not sure how soon you were thinking. I also have a couple days before Memorial Day weekend. My job solicits our leave requests pretty far in advance and other time off can be difficult. My email link works in the CP when time gets close.

Any one know what current Adcom line is like these days? They also provided a nice product for the money. Not quite as clean as Arcam but a heck of a lot more powerful in most instances.

[harley .guy07]

I am not sure about today's Adcom products. they have been out of the limelight for so many years that I am not sure how good there new stuff is. I have read good reviews on their new 700 series preamp but have not seen any comparison to anything else out there. They must be having problems selling their newest line of amps though because they came back out with the 555, its called the 555se and I am not sure what they improved on it over the original but if they are pushing a design that began in the 80's then their new stuff must not be faring very well. Even though the 555 is a good amp for the price point, well hell you know Mr. Peabody don't you own one yourself on a second system? they are pretty good for the money and especially considering the power output they have. but I will tell you this I am not a fan of the black and white face plates on the new stuff, it makes the stuff look kind of out of place within a system in my opinion, not to say that looks mean all that much anyway. Sound is the main thing.

[Mr Peabody]

I let the 5500 go in order to cover some of the new preamp. I hated to though it was fantastic for it's range. The guy I sold it to also bought my PV14. I took some gear over and rearranged his system and he decided he liked it. He's running the 5500 on the bass of some biamped Paradigm and a bridged NAD on each mid/tweet section. Man, that set up rocks.

[harley .guy07]

Cool. Yeah most biamped systems I have heard really have the dynamics with good amps. I have thought about it myself but my Monitor 7's aren't that big and are not insensitive enough to make it a big deal to biamp, but I am sure that they would be more dynamic with multiple amps. What Paradigm speakers was he running. It would be cool to know seeing that I have found Adcom amps cheap as hell on ebay and audiogon and biamping my Paradigms would make them dynamic as all get out plus I would probably get better control with the added power.

[Mr Peabody]

I think he said they were an older Studio 100. It was the first time I really personally played around with biamping and I was really impressed with what we were able to do with the system. If your Paradigm are biampable you might think about trying it. Adcom would be great for the bass but you could even go tube for the mid/high or a solid state amp that has better resolution than the Adcom. With the little NAD's bridged on the system we're talking about the mid/high had more than adequate headroom which gave the overall system SPL to the extreme. The 5500 didn't have any problem keeping up. Last I checked Adcom on Audiogon it was crazy cheap. It would be good to find a preamp with dual outputs. This would avoid having to use a Y adaptor.

[harley .guy07]

You are right about the duel output preamp because with the Y adapter you will still be sharing the voltage output of one output through two amps and this would lower output dramatically. Preamps with duel outputs typically have seperate output circuits for each output so that both amps will have a good amount of input voltage for both amps to work like designed.

[ren9328]

IMO, the best bang for the buck will come from using an integrated amp and a separate CD player.

The NAD C320BEE is a good sounding unit which can be found inexpensively on the Audiogon. For a little more outlay look at a Primare A20 or YBA YA-201, though there are many great choices in that price range.

I have extensive experience with Dynaudio speakers from the Audience to the Contour series. I have compared Dyn standmounts to the Paradigm Studio (100), and Revel M-20s in house. I have heard the Usher Be718(correct model #) and think it is fantastic but a bit pricey. If your budget allows I would seriously consider a used pair of Dynaudio Audience 52s or Contour 1.3s (MkI or MkII). The Audience series were a very good value and only gave up a little refinement to the Contour series which were over twice the cost. You mentioned the lack of CA speakers soundstage and that happens to be a Dyn strong suit along with refined treble and astonishing bass out of a tiny box.

I liked my first pair of Audience 50s so much that I have only moved up the Dynaudio line. My first upgrade was to Contour 1.3 MkIs and now to Contour 1.3 SEs, which are astonishingly good speakers but very, very hard to come buy. I have used the aforementioned integrateds as well as Bryston, Proceed and now Krell electronics to drive them to great effect.

Best wishes in your search,

Earl

Note: I am also on a Dynaudio thread so if anyone has more in depth questions I can probably find you an answer.

[frenchmon]

I am not sure when you built your kits but the kits at Madisound and Parts Express are of better quality than what you are explaining about the kits you built. They have real veneer cabinets with high quality crossovers with drivers that way exceed anything that is put in a store sold speaker at quite a but more money than the kit and they also look real good as well. There are some people out there that are against kits and I understand that but I have seen and heard excellent results with a lot of the kits that both of these companies sell and trust in both companies for their quality and design ability.

Yeah the same friend who has the Electrocompaniet CDP also has a set of bookshelf speakers that he built from a Madisound kit. Pretty impressive build quality and sound.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

Cool. Yeah most biamped systems I have heard really have the dynamics with good amps. I have thought about it myself but my Monitor 7's aren't that big and are not insensitive enough to make it a big deal to biamp, but I am sure that they would be more dynamic with multiple amps. What Paradigm speakers was he running. It would be cool to know seeing that I have found Adcom amps cheap as hell on ebay and audiogon and biamping my Paradigms would make them dynamic as all get out plus I would probably get better control with the added power.

Harley...what Paradigms do you have? I've heard you say many negative things about your set, makes me wonder whats wrong with yours? I have the v3 series and they are bi wired not amped and theys sound great. And they are as tall as Mr. Peabodys Dynaudio speakers..so I guess if yours are as tall as the V3's they are big enough to bi amp.

frenchmon