Question, is Rock and Roll, too "Broad" a term?

[Worf101]

After watching and re-watching the HBO RnR Hall of fame 25th Anniversay special its easy to point out all the genres, sub-genres and legends omitted, missed, left out. I know we didn't see every performance nor the entire show BUT one thing is obvious, RnR means a great many different things to a great many different people and artists. What's your definition? To my knowledge, Rock and Roll was a term coined by jump blues piano players where in the bass rocked on the pedal and the right hand rolled or trilled some octave's higher. A classic example, the piano work on Big Joe Turner's "Shake Rattle and Roll".

Is there a definition? Does it need to be re-examined in "post splinter" popular music? Just askin'....

Worf

[noddin0ff]

Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new sound
Funny, but it's still rock and roll to me

[Swish]

After watching and re-watching the HBO RnR Hall of fame 25th Anniversay special its easy to point out all the genres, sub-genres and legends omitted, missed, left out. I know we didn't see every performance nor the entire show BUT one thing is obvious, RnR means a great many different things to a great many different people and artists. What's your definition? To my knowledge, Rock and Roll was a term coined by jump blues piano players where in the bass rocked on the pedal and the right hand rolled or trilled some octave's higher. A classic example, the piano work on Big Joe Turner's "Shake Rattle and Roll".

Is there a definition? Does it need to be re-examined in "post splinter" popular music? Just askin'....

Worf

When I was a young pup, the genres didn't really matter to me and were summarily ignored. I never considered Jethro Tull 'progressive', but I remember that term was used to critique 'Thick as a Brick' when it was released way back when. I certainly knew the blues when I heard it, ditto country rock, folk, and the like, but rock was a huge amalgamation to me until I went off to college and caught 'the new wave'. Things seemed to spiral out of control soon after that, with punk, post-punk, prog, glam rock...it's a dizzying list. Check out this list that could be all-encompassing, most of which I wouldn't know if it bit me in the hind quarters:

* 2 Tone
* Acid rock
* Alternative dance
* Alternative metal
* Alternative rock
* Anatolian rock
* Art punk
* Art rock
* Avant-garde metal
* Baroque pop
* Beat
* Bisrock
* Black metal
* Blackened death metal
* Blues-rock
* Brazilian rock
* Britpop
* Bubblegum pop
* C86
* Canterbury sound
* Cello rock
* Celtic punk
* Celtic metal
* Celtic rock
* Chicano rock
* Christcore
* Christian punk
* Christian rock
* Christian metal
* Christian ska
* Coldwave
* Comedy rock
* Country rock
* Cowpunk
* Crossover thrash
* Crunkcore
* Crust punk
* Cuddlecore
* Dance-punk
* Dance-rock
* Dark cabaret
* Darkwave
* Death 'n' roll
* Deathcore
* Deathgrind
* Death metal
* Death rock
* Doom metal
* Dream pop
* Dunedin sound
* Electric blues
* Electric folk
* Electro Punk
* Electronic rock
* Emo
* Experimental rock
* Folktronica
* Folk rock
* Folk metal
* Folk punk
* Freakbeat
* Funk metal
* Funk rock
* Garage rock
* Garage punk
* German rock
* Glam metal
* Glam punk
* Glam rock
* Goregrind
* Gothic metal
* Gothic rock
* Grebo
* Grindcore
* Groove metal
* Group Sounds
* Grunge
* Gypsy punk
* Hatecore
* Hard rock
* Hardcore punk
* Heartland rock
* Heavy metal
* Horror punk
* Indie pop
* Indie rock
* Indorock
* Industrial folk song
* Industrial metal
* Industrial rock
* Instrumental rock
* Iranian rock
* J-ska
* Jam rock
* Jangle pop
* Jazz rock
* Jersey Shore sound
* Krautrock
* Latin rock
* Lo-fi
* Lovers rock
* Madchester
* Manguebeat
* Manila Sound
* Mathcore
* Math rock
* Medieval folk rock
* Medieval metal
* Melodic black metal
* Melodic death metal
* Melodic hardcore
* Metalcore
* Mod
* Mod revival
* Nardcore
* Nazi punk
* Neue Deutsche Welle
* Neo-classical metal
* Neo-folk
* Neo-Medieval music
* Neo-prog
* Neo-psychedelia
* New prog
* New Romantic
* New wave
* Nintendocore
* Noisecore
* Noise pop
* Noise rock
* No wave
* Nu metal
* Nu-folk
* Oi!
* Ostrock
* Pagan rock
* Paisley underground
* Pinoy rock
* Pirate Metal
* Pop punk
* Pop rock
* Pornogrind
* Post-punk
* Post-punk revival
* Post-hardcore
* Post-grunge
* Post-metal
* Post-rock
* Power pop
* Power metal
* Power violence
* Progressive folk
* Progressive metal
* Progressive rock
* Protopunk
* Power pop
* Psychedelic rock
* Psych-Folk
* Psychobilly
* Punk rock
* Punta rock
* *****core
* Raga rock
* Rapcore
* Rap metal
* Rap rock
* Riot Grrrl
* Rock
* Rock and roll
* Rockabilly
* Rock en Espaņol
* Rockoson
* Rocksteady
* Russian rock
* Sadcore
* Samba-rock
* Screamo
* Shoegazing
* Shock rock
* Ska punk
* Skate punk
* Skate rock
* Sludge metal
* Soft rock
* Southern rock
* Space rock
* Speed metal
* Stoner metal
* Stoner rock
* Street punk
* Sunshine pop
* Surf music
* Surf rock
* Swamp rock
* Symphonic metal
* Symphonic rock
* Synthpop
* Thrash metal
* Thrashcore
* Trip rock
* Twee pop
* Unblack metal
* Viking metal
* Viking rock
* Visual kei
* Wagnerian rock
* Wizard Rock
* Zeuhl

[Luvin Da Blues]

Swishy, I think you made some of those up. WTF is Twee pop????:confused5:

[Finch Platte]

You could get some interesting styles if you put 'Progressive' in front of some of those.

I.e.

Progressive Mod
Progressive Oi!
Progressive 2-Tone
Progressive Lo-Fi

Progressive Etc.

[Troy]

Fabulous list! I think there's a lot of jazz categories missing. No New Age either. Did you know that New Age rhymes with Sewage?

Twee Pop is lite jangle pop, usually with breathy girl singers, ie: The Cardigans or Broadcast.

All the Christian punk/metal Cristcore kills me. That's the funniest thing on the list.

WTF is Ostrock / Visual Kei / Unblack Metal / Pagan Rock / Cuddlecore / Anatolian Rock / Nardcore?

Who could ever say "Yeah dude, I'm totally into Nardcore." and keep a straight face?

Worf, I've wondered this for a long time. All the splintering has happened because generations have been dipping at the same well for so long that new, young bands and the record companies that handle them invent these sub-sub-sub-genres to make it sound like their new bands don't sound just like the old bands. It's just marketing.

I've always thought the terms "Indie" and "Alternative" were the worst, most nebulous and useless examples.

I hate that so many record/cd shops feel the need to split everything into all these subcategories so that you can't find anything. Flaming Lips, are they in the rock section, the prog-rock section or the indie section? Does it depend on which album? Every store is different too. For a guy like me that is always looking for music that blends genres, it's a PITA.

If I owned a record store there would be NO genres. Classical and opera would be mixed in with every form of rock and jazz. And Nardcore. Just one big alphabetical-by-artist pile.

[3LB]

where's country western on that list? or western swing? or just swing?

Troy's right - **** genres

[poppachubby]

No shortage of "core" out there. Great post Worf. I find as I get older, I care less about genres and labeling. I think rock describes a great many styles and sounds correctly.

[kexodusc]

You could get some interesting styles if you put 'Progressive' in front of some of those.

I.e.

Progressive Mod
Progressive Oi!
Progressive 2-Tone
Progressive Lo-Fi

Progressive Etc.
I'm big into Progressive Punk. Listening to a 23 minute long re-make of "I Wanna Be Sedated". It's got a wicked 6 minute drum solo in the middle. And those blazing fast arpeggios in the guitar solo...awesome.

[kexodusc]

Fabulous list! I think there's a lot of jazz categories missing. No New Age either. Did you know that New Age rhymes with Sewage?

Twee Pop is lite jangle pop, usually with breathy girl singers, ie: The Cardigans or Broadcast.

All the Christian punk/metal Cristcore kills me. That's the funniest thing on the list.

WTF is Ostrock / Visual Kei / Unblack Metal / Pagan Rock / Cuddlecore / Anatolian Rock / Nardcore?

Who could ever say "Yeah dude, I'm totally into Nardcore." and keep a straight face?

Worf, I've wondered this for a long time. All the splintering has happened because generations have been dipping at the same well for so long that new, young bands and the record companies that handle them invent these sub-sub-sub-genres to make it sound like their new bands don't sound just like the old bands. It's just marketing.

I've always thought the terms "Indie" and "Alternative" were the worst, most nebulous and useless examples.

I hate that so many record/cd shops feel the need to split everything into all these subcategories so that you can't find anything. Flaming Lips, are they in the rock section, the prog-rock section or the indie section? Does it depend on which album? Every store is different too. For a guy like me that is always looking for music that blends genres, it's a PITA.

If I owned a record store there would be NO genres. Classical and opera would be mixed in with every form of rock and jazz. And Nardcore. Just one big alphabetical-by-artist pile.

All true. I swear some kids these days buy music just on virtue of it's sub-genre label and whether or not anyone else listens to it. As soon as they see someone else wearing the T-shirt, time to move on.
I couldn't even guess what Nardcore might be. Sounds like the foam insulation they use to fill the cavities in car doors.

[recoveryone]

Great discussion topic, it really shows how far off the mark we as a culture have come since the coined term RnR. But as always we keep adding sub category's to it to keep making the square peg fit into the round hole. For my own history I was taught that RnR was a form of upbeat blues, with a strong piano lead and the bass carrying the "bass line" to use an old term. The drums were there for the rhythm part and timing, horns kept that Jazz/Blues roots element. When the Motown sound came along (late 50's) a new category came out from the term Colored music "SOUL", from the soulful style and effort of singing. With the Brits invasion came the ROCK era with the guitar being the lead instrument (Beetles, Stones, Who) no piano. From there music has been in almost every direction and back again. There are only a few forms that are true to its roots (Jazz and Classical) even Country has given in to the new wave of rock/rap/pop styles, but some would call it progress, that ain't your daddy's Hank Williams.

[Swish]

Swishy, I think you made some of those up. WTF is Twee pop????:confused5:

...I didn't make this list, so I find 'Twee Pop' as nebulous as do you. I Googled 'rock genres' and did a copy and paste. I doubt anyone on RR would be able to come up with a list anywhere close to this one without some help. You did make me chuckle though.