Just think....

[frenchmon]

...ing about Hybrid amps and hybrid preamps.
Has anybody had any expereince or information they would like to share?

frenchmon

[atomicAdam]

hybrid, the best of both worlds?

or anyone remember Clerks and Randal's affliction for the best of both worlds?

[frenchmon]

And what does THAT mean? I asked if you have anything to share? IF so, kindly tell all please.

frenchmon

[Ajani]

...ing about Hybrid amps and hybrid preamps.
Has anybody had any expereince or information they would like to share?

frenchmon

One of my favorite Integrated Amps was a hybrid: Tube Pre/SS Power... Musical Fidelity X-T100...

[Mr Peabody]

I don't recall hearing a true hybrid. i know Jolida does some and an expensive, odd looking line called Blue Circle. It doesn't seem to be something that is widely embraced.

I think you might find my CJ set up interesting next listen. I was going to post this on my
CT6 thread and probably will but here it is as well. This is a quote from the guy I bought my CT6 from in an exchange discussion we were having regarding the CT6. Feanor is skeptical to say the least of my observations toward the CT6 but it really is incredible. Jack says it better than I.

"When cj went to the Cascade Triode design, first implemented on the ART and then the ACT and finally to the CT series, I felt as though they had achieved a real breakthrough in preamp design, be it solid state or tube. The last preamp I heard that moved things this far forward was the Krell KBL back in the late '80s. To my ear, the Cascode Triode designs sound neither tube nor solid state. They seem to genuinely transcend the weaknesses of either whilst maintaining the strengths of each. Of all the preamps I have heard, they make music. I'll tell you, we are on a huge run with cj, they are selling like crazy, something that few manufacturers can claim in this economy. When people buy a cj, from then on they usually only upgrade to a new cj when it's time for something new. We've even sold three of the new GATs. With cj, it's all about parts quality, they simply do not compromise. I really believe that right now they are building some of the best gear ever made."


When cj went to the Cascade Triode design, first implemented on the ART and then the ACT and finally to the CT series, I felt as though they had acheived a real breakthrough in preamp design, be it solid state or tube. The last preamp I heard that moved things this far forward was the Krell KBL back in the late '80s. To my ear, the Cascode Triode designs sound neither tube nor solid state. They seem to genuinely transcend the weaknesses of either whilst maintaining the strengths of each. Of all the preamps I have heard, they make music. I'll tell you, we are on a huge run with cj, they are selling like crazy, something that few manufacturers can claim in this economy. When people buy a cj, from then on they usually only upgrade to a new cj when it's time for something new. We've even sold three of the new GATs. With cj, it's all about parts quality, they simply do not compromise. I really believe that right now they are building some of the best gear ever made.


When cj went to the Cascade Triode design, first implemented on the ART and then the ACT and finally to the CT series, I felt as though they had acheived a real breakthrough in preamp design, be it solid state or tube. The last preamp I heard that moved things this far forward was the Krell KBL back in the late '80s. To my ear, the Cascode Triode designs sound neither tube nor solid state. They seem to genuinely transcend the weaknesses of either whilst maintaining the strengths of each. Of all the preamps I have heard, they make music. I'll tell you, we are on a huge run with cj, they are selling like crazy, something that few manufacturers can claim in this economy. When people buy a cj, from then on they usually only upgrade to a new cj when it's time for something new. We've even sold three of the new GATs. With cj, it's all about parts quality, they simply do not compromise. I really believe that right now they are building some of the best gear ever made.

[frenchmon]

I've been reading about them. The reviews are positive ones. A few that where not positive. But for the most, if its done right you have a very nice setup. Some even said you get a soft tonal tube sound with the brute force of solid state. Perhaps that's what AA meant when he talked about the best of both worlds? I've read that Blue Circle Audio, as well as Conrad Johnson had very good Hybrid amp that got very favorable reviews. Vincent Audio also has very positive feed back on their line of hybrid amps and preamps. Has anybody else here had any experience with hybrids?

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

What is a true hybrid? And what would be a not true hybrid?

frenchmon

[Feanor]

What is a true hybrid? And what would be a not true hybrid?

frenchmon
I'd like to hear an expert explanation too.

I think it means, simplistically, that at least one of multiple stages of amplification is tube and at least one of the rest is solid state. However I think a design can be consider all-tube if all amplification and buffering stages are tube but the power supply is solid state; tube purists might disagree.

[mlsstl]

I'd like to hear an expert explanation too.
I rather doubt there is an "expert" explanation for the term hybrid. To my knowledge, no audio electronics committee ever got together and gave a formal, industry definition for the word (in the fashion that the RIAA LP playback curve was made official or the CD standards were declared in the "Redbook".)

More likely it was a marketing term coined by someone who had combined both tube and solid state amplification stages into one unit. In that case, it just means what people want it to mean.

But overall, I'd agree with Feanor. The term hybrid makes more sense if one is talking about gain stages rather than also including AC to DC rectification.

[frenchmon]

So Feanor and misstl...have either of you had a chance to listen to hybrids? And what do they sound like? Perhaps after the new year I will have an audition of some hybrid gear by one of the local dealers here who gives it the thumbs up., but he's a dealer trying to sell. Like I said earlier, Conrad Johnson a very respectable company along with a very high end company called Blue Circle has put out hybrid amps and preamps. I think Blue Circle still has them in production. I think Blackraven has a AVA hybrid pre, and I'm sure he loves it. I'm just trying to get a feel for the sound. Hybrids are on my list to consider for purchase. So BR can you describe a hybrids characteristics please?


frenchmon

[frenchmon]

More likely it was a marketing term coined by someone who had combined both tube and solid state amplification stages into one unit. In that case, it just means what people want it to mean.
.

Its probably has the same idea of an external tube buffer, but installed inside the unit.....you think?

frenchmon

[mlsstl]

While a "buffer" stage has active components, it typically does not provide gain (or if it does, just within a narrow range.) The purpose of a true buffer circuit is to prevent adverse interactions between one circuit and another.

I know some people add a tube buffer in between two transistor components in order to change the sound (as opposed to fixing an adverse interaction) but that is a bit counter-intuitive to my way of thinking. I'd rather see the primary components doing what they should in the first place rather than having to add things to tame things down or liven them up.

In a tube preamp section, the tubes are used to provide actual gain or amplification in lieu of transistors or other solid state devices.

I've not critically listened to any hybrids, though I've heard some under casual circumstances. In general, they seem to work fine. The more common implementation would be a tube front end with transistor outputs, though there is no reason someone couldn't reverse those if they wished. (The latter would be more expensive due to the added need for output transformers and a heavier duty high voltage power supply.)

I have had a tube preamp with a solid state amp.That worked very nicely so there is no reason it wouldn't work equally well in a hybrid.

Ultimately, though, the raw configuration of internal circuits is far less important than what the designer does with them. I've heard crappy tube gear that was dull and lifeless and I've heard good stuff that sounded great. Same with solid state.

If you're interested in a particular unit because it is a hybrid, the best advice I can offer is to listen to it. And, if it floats your boat, go for it!

[frenchmon]

While a "buffer" stage has active components, it typically does not provide gain (or if it does, just within a narrow range.) The purpose of a true buffer circuit is to prevent adverse interactions between one circuit and another.

I know some people add a tube buffer in between two transistor components in order to change the sound (as opposed to fixing an adverse interaction) but that is a bit counter-intuitive to my way of thinking. I'd rather see the primary components doing what they should in the first place rather than having to add things to tame things down or liven them up.

In a tube preamp section, the tubes are used to provide actual gain or amplification in lieu of transistors or other solid state devices.

I've not critically listened to any hybrids, though I've heard some under casual circumstances. In general, they seem to work fine. The more common implementation would be a tube front end with transistor outputs, though there is no reason someone couldn't reverse those if they wished. (The latter would be more expensive due to the added need for output transformers and a heavier duty high voltage power supply.)

I have had a tube preamp with a solid state amp.That worked very nicely so there is no reason it wouldn't work equally well in a hybrid.

Ultimately, though, the raw configuration of internal circuits is far less important than what the designer does with them. I've heard crappy tube gear that was dull and lifeless and I've heard good stuff that sounded great. Same with solid state.

If you're interested in a particular unit because it is a hybrid, the best advice I can offer is to listen to it. And, if it floats your boat, go for it!

Yeah...I can get very good deals on Vincent gear and will take a listen early next year before and if I purchase.


frenchmon

[JoeE SP9]

My ARC SP-9 is a hybrid. ARC always called it a hybrid. Tubes (2x6DJ8) for the low level and RIAA with SS FET outputs.
As for power amps, there are lots of "hybrids". Just look at the Vincent amps in the Audio Adviser catalog. The NYAL Moscode amps are also hybrid.

I've lived with my SP-9 for 15+ years. IMO it gives me tube sound with a decently low output impedance from the FET outputs. Consequently, I can run long IC's to my power amps without fear of any HF roll off.

Sure, there are preamps that sound better. They all cost a lot more than an SP-9. Although I've got lots of upgrade plans, replacing my SP-9 is not really an issue. It simply sounds good to me. It doesn't draw attention to itself. It gets out of the way and lets the music through.

[frenchmon]

Thats right Acoustic Research! I forgot they did hybrids....I think there are more hybrids on the market and in hobbyist homes that we think. Must be more to hybrids than first thought. All the Vincent gear seems to get excellent reviews.

frenchmon

[JoeE SP9]

Thats right Acoustic Research! I forgot they did hybrids....I think there are more hybrids on the market and in hobbyist homes that we think. Must be more to hybrids than first thought. All the Vincent gear seems to get excellent reviews.

frenchmon

ARC is Audio Research Corporation.

The only Acoustic Research I know of used to make decent speakers, as in AR-3.

[frenchmon]

ARC is Audio Research Corporation.

The only Acoustic Research I know of used to make decent speakers, as in AR-3.

Thanks...I meant to say Audio Research....got carried away in my excitement.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Some will mix a tube pre with solid state power to in, theory, achieve a certain sound or balance. Tubes brought the warmth and other attributes they offer while solid state power brought the control and better bass response. Today with the improvement in some tube gear to the point the bass would give some SS a run for it's money and some SS manufacturers making very musical and warm gear you can get close to what tubes might do. Hybrids still can be useful to achieve a certain sound and keep cost down.

In short, as mlsstl stated, in the end it comes to what sounds good. There are designs that some will like and some will not. I guess the fun in it all is finding what does it for us.