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Poultrygeist
12-05-2009, 04:34 AM
Built the Wild Burro Audio Betsys in one hour flat. These 8 inch full range drivers in the open baffle design sound better than speakers costing ten times their price. These things are so easy to build a ten year old could put them together. If you don't have an unused sheet of plywood sitting around buy one from HD and they'll make all the cuts for free.

If you've never heard a good single driver in open baffle you're in for a shock. The Betsys are so efficient they match well with a T-amp or 2.5 watt SET.

Geoffcin
12-05-2009, 05:36 AM
I actually built something very similar when I was a kid with a pair of 6x9 car speakers. We used to crank music in the parking lot at the muni pool with it. It sounded pretty darn good and could deploy from a trunk in seconds. (or pack up fast when the cops kicked us out!)

poppachubby
12-05-2009, 11:18 AM
I've been considering Tekton open-baffle. These things apparently kill...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1263053796

http://pic8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1251857340.jpg

Poultrygeist
12-06-2009, 04:27 PM
I've spent many hours listening to the wide baffle Tekton 4.5's with the Fostex FE126E drivers and they are outstanding. The Wild Burro Betsys are equally impressive but for significantly less money.

poppachubby
12-06-2009, 06:32 PM
I'll have to check them out!

thekid
12-07-2009, 02:17 AM
$100??? Gee that's way above my price point for gear........ :D

Seriously though that sounds like an interesting project.
Any pics you could share?

Poultrygeist
12-09-2009, 06:37 AM
I downloaded a picture of my DIY "Betsy" open baffle speakers in the member photo gallery under Poultrygeist.

audio amateur
12-09-2009, 07:02 AM
She's huge!

poppachubby
12-09-2009, 09:44 AM
I'll link the pic. My god man! My wife is a reasonable woman but No Way!!

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/HPIM3958.JPG

Poultrygeist
12-09-2009, 03:03 PM
front baffle 9 inches and wings are 10 inches and 18 inches. It stands 4 ft tall. This is my first experience with OB speakers and I'm hooked big time. For the first time I'm hearing music that doesn't sound like it's coming from a box!:22:

poppachubby
12-09-2009, 06:08 PM
front baffle 9 inches and wings are 10 inches and 18 inches. It stands 4 ft tall. This is my first experience with OB speakers and I'm hooked big time. For the first time I'm hearing music that doesn't sound like it's coming from a box!:22:

Oh I don't doubt it. Frugal horns are the same deal, quite large looking...

paceral500
12-15-2009, 08:52 AM
paceral500 here, hello to all.

my interest is finding external mic system for camcorder

Poultrygeist
12-17-2009, 07:09 AM
My latest speaker beliefs

1. the best crossover is no crossover

2. the best box is no box

JoeE SP9
12-17-2009, 10:19 AM
My latest speaker beliefs

1. the best crossover is no crossover

2. the best box is no box

Electrostatic speakers:

1. No crossover
2. No box

audio amateur
12-17-2009, 11:09 AM
Electrostatic speakers:

1. No crossover
2. No box
Electrostatic speaker: $$$

Poultrygeist
12-18-2009, 05:59 AM
Electrostatic = expensive

OB = inexpensive

Why don't more companies manufacture OB's? there's no profit in them

poppachubby
12-18-2009, 06:04 AM
Poultry, once I have the Golden Tube finished, I will be picking your brain. I hope to find more there than what your name suggests...lol.

Poultrygeist
12-19-2009, 07:08 AM
I've lost interest in everything but single drivers and OB's. Banished my Aerials to a back bedroom and sold my Classe amp on ebay.

audio amateur
12-20-2009, 08:14 AM
sold my Classe amp on ebay.
Dayuum! That was a drastic move! What are you going to power the OBs with? The Classe just doesn't mate well eh?

Poultrygeist
12-20-2009, 07:55 PM
I just don't care for the sterile sound of solid state so the Classe had to go. My MiniWatt 2.5 wpc tube amp makes beautiful music with the OBs.

Geoffcin
12-20-2009, 07:55 PM
Check out these full range drivers;

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?spkrfull&1261370198&1&3&1&

audio amateur
12-21-2009, 02:59 AM
That's a little step up in price geoff :)

Poultrygeist
12-21-2009, 03:59 AM
At the other extreme is the Pioneer 8 inch full ranger from Parts Express which goes for $30 and has achieved cult like status among the DIY crowd. It sounds great in OB.

Geoffcin
12-21-2009, 06:21 AM
At the other extreme is the Pioneer 8 inch full ranger from Parts Express which goes for $30 and has achieved cult like status among the DIY crowd. It sounds great in OB.

Cult status? Like the "Heavens Gate" cult?

Poultrygeist
12-21-2009, 07:13 AM
Cult as in "a small circle of persons united by devotion or allegiance to an artistic or intellectual movement".

OB may be best for those who think outside of the box.

Geoffcin
12-21-2009, 07:39 AM
OK I get it now, you guys are like the "Branch Davidians" of the DIY crowd.

Geoffcin
12-21-2009, 02:12 PM
Wow, OB's are going large on Audiogon!

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?homesubw&1261447316&1&3&1&

Bet this puppy can post some big bass.

Poultrygeist
12-21-2009, 02:19 PM
I'm hardly a DIY'er as Home Depot did most of the work on my Betsys. I'm a novice but hope to try a smaller version of the folding wing baffle with the CSS FR125s driver which I understand reduced one DIY'er to tears after hearing it. I haven't shed a tear yet with the Betsys but I was close a couple of times :)

There's some interesting threads if you google "DarkStar B200 speakers" regarding the folding baffles. 6moons did a nice write up on this design prototype by Omega powered by a Redwine amp.

I'm afraid I've crossed over to the Dark (Star) side.

Poultrygeist
12-21-2009, 02:29 PM
A much cheaper option for OB with 15 inch bass speakers/augmentors would be the $299 Boomers + the $100 Betsy drivers. The $299 Boomer Package includes a separate amp from PE worth $150.

poppachubby
12-21-2009, 04:05 PM
Here's some great links guys...

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/overview_1.shtml

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/

Poultrygeist
12-21-2009, 04:41 PM
The 4.5 inch Fostex is the most revealing driver on the planet. With my Tektons I can hear the spit in Miles Davis' trumpet.

Linkwitz is the king of OB.

My one regret is that I wasted so many years and so much money on high end gear before discovering the magic of full range single drivers.

poppachubby
12-21-2009, 05:20 PM
Dude, I've been reading heavy. It seems that this is the way to go. I can't decide if I should buy or go DIY.

audio amateur
12-22-2009, 02:56 AM
If you go DIY, and you're starting out, do something cheap (like I'm doing at the moment). If it goes well you can try something more expensive. That's my opinion. If you're lazy, then you won't go DIY but you'll spend more.

poppachubby
12-22-2009, 03:12 AM
AA, your box is full. I'm online for another 20 minutes or so.

poppachubby
12-22-2009, 05:20 AM
If you go DIY, and you're starting out, do something cheap (like I'm doing at the moment). If it goes well you can try something more expensive. That's my opinion. If you're lazy, then you won't go DIY but you'll spend more.


Seems I missed you this morning. Love the lazy bit lol. I'm certainly not lazy, but my time is limited which can extend a project.

Have a look here AA, the simplicity of these builds are really luring me in. I am partial to the Metronome for ease and size/style. My wife also approves, which helps.

http://www.frugal-horn.com/index.html

It sounds like you're going with a traditional box. Is this correct? Please do some reading, there's a couple of great links I posted in this thread. The funny thing is, the open baffle or horn concept is supposed to sound better, and is also easier to build than a box I would say. It may be more work, but with the plans, easier.

I have never been attracted to planar/stats but I'm now starting to understand the allure and dedication these guys feel. And all of this without even owning a pair yet! Technically, it makes so much sense.

Hopefully we can chat online soon about this.

Chubbily, Chubbs

Poultrygeist
12-22-2009, 05:47 AM
Horns are the most difficult to build of all DIY cabinets. Some OB purists dismiss them as they believe the sound escapes back through the drivers. I do know that I've spent many hours listening to HSHorns and they are truly remarkable.

I wouldn't attempt to build a set as I would never be able to get all those internal pieces to square up with the cabinet sides.

audio amateur
12-22-2009, 05:52 AM
Yeah them horns look pretty complex to build right.

Chubbs, the speakers I'm buliding are for the home theater (so it doesn't matter too much how they sound if you consider the rest of my HT equipment). Currently I just use my parents 2ch system (in my profile) when I'm in Geneva and I run my B&W in England. I'll definitely try some more DIYing from next summer onwards (including perhaps OB). I can't at uni because I don''t have the room or tools to do any DIY, but I graduate this year:)

poppachubby
12-22-2009, 05:56 AM
I guess with my background, I see the frugal's as an easy proposition. The plans are very detailed and outline everything quite nicely. the only question mark I had with some of the plans was for the cable port and how to run the wires internally.

Poultrygeist
12-22-2009, 06:03 AM
Chubbs,

You should check out Bob Brines DIY stuff. It's considered top of the heap.

Poultrygeist
12-23-2009, 05:31 AM
Here is an interesting link on the folding wing baffle as used in my OB.



http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=239

poppachubby
12-23-2009, 01:34 PM
OK, I have been muckin around today. I went to the shop and wrote a program for the baffle. I cut 5 sheets of thin plywood and then glued them together with the hydraulic press. I jacked the speakers from a crappy boxed 3 way that my father in law had in his attic.

Re-wired the speakers and added the melamine. I now have to trim the melamine and hinge it on. Pretty rough but it's something I can start with. Haven't heard a note yet, I'll be back...

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/DSC02693.JPG

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/full/DSC02694.JPG

http://www.aboutus.org/Special/image/thumb/DSC02695.JPG

Poultrygeist
12-23-2009, 03:37 PM
The OB DIY'ers use the "golden ratio" to determine size of baffle and driver placement based on speaker specs. It's very scientific and way over my head. Just any speaker won't work in OB as it has to be a full range driver.

In order for a speaker to sound decent in OB I do know that it has to have a high Qts ( over .5 is considered good ). My Betsys sound good because their Qts is around .70

I am not knowledgeable enough to design an OB. I can only use someone else's design that has been proven successful.

I don't think you baffles are large enough though.

Geoffcin
12-23-2009, 04:22 PM
Way kewl!!

I'm interested to hear what the final product turns out like.

Have you thought about what kind of crossover your going to use?

poppachubby
12-23-2009, 05:57 PM
Hmmmm, more science required. I was looking for a fast and cheap way to hear this damn thing. Nothing good comes THAT easy I suppose. Looks like no crossover Geoff...

Poultry, have you seen any guys suspend their baffles from the ceiling? I was thinking about how cool that would be...

Geoffcin
12-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Hmmmm, more science required. I was looking for a fast and cheap way to hear this damn thing. Nothing good comes THAT easy I suppose. Looks like no crossover Geoff...

Poultry, have you seen any guys suspend their baffles from the ceiling? I was thinking about how cool that would be...

I wouldn't hook up the speaker with the drivers in parallel if you value your amp. In series would be fine, but the total resistance could be quite substantial depending on the ratings of the drivers. In any case I would do some research on a simple crossover. The DIY crowd should have a few ideas for you.

poppachubby
12-23-2009, 07:51 PM
Oh no, sorry Geoff, what I meant was "no crossover" as in, I wasn't going to pursue it any further. I have to go watch a movie but I had a simple crossover from another set. I'll post a pic tommorrow...

Poultrygeist
12-24-2009, 05:13 AM
My next project may be the Betsy/Boomer combo in the same baffle which would include my two current 8 inch Betsy drivers paired with two 15 inch bass drivers also known as a bass augmenter ( not a sub ). The full range 8 " drivers would be powered by my regular amp and the bass augmenters would get it's power from a small Parts Express amp. This design stands 40 inches and is about 20 inches wide and has no wings. The sides are only a couple of inches deep.

OB's often avoid crossovers as they reduce efficiency and can suck the life out of your sound. When crossovers are used they tend to be very simple. Check out the coax Silver Iris at Hawthorne Audio.

OB's are not new they're older than dirt. Most of the old console radios from the 30's and 40's sounded good because they had full range speakers and open back cabinets. Many of the old juke boxes used huge full rangers with open backs as well. Edison's first phonographs were open baffle horns. It could be argued that speakers were originally designed to be played in "free air" and then sometime later got stuffed into boxes.

If you take a small transistor radio and place it inside an empty speaker cabinet it will sound muffled and not nearly as clear as when you play it in "free air". A great OB will make the music sound "live." Folks love to brag about how their speakers produce pin point imaging. Has anyone ever attended a live concert and heard pin point imaging? It may be nice but it's not like "live" sound.

The great thing about OB's is that the sound from the rear of the speaker is allowed to join the sound from the front. There is where I believe the magic lies and what makes for the huge "live" soundstage. Some folks may prefer the box sound but it's cheap to build an OB and decide if the magic is right for you.

The one problem I'm finding in OB's is that there aren't many choices in drivers. Companies don't make them as the demand is small compared to drivers designed for regular enclosures.

There is a $30,000 amp playing on YouTube known as the GM-70. Guess what speakers it's driving? A pair of OB's in simple flat plywood baffles. To me that says something.

Poultrygeist
12-24-2009, 05:23 AM
I haven't seen any OB's suspended from the ceiling but I have seen stop sign OB's

Gary Hubbard
02-13-2010, 09:46 PM
I am trying rebuild my Accoustat Spectra2200s. I will need to repair what may be wiring short between transformer and the left panel (suspicious black smuge the lower back of the left panel. WAF approval factor also requests that I find replacement covers (socks) for them to remediate the grunge factor. Any ideas? Mother Hubbard.

Poultrygeist
02-14-2010, 03:16 AM
The covers can be cleaned.