The Very Best Cables Are

[jackz4000]

probably the ones you feel are the best...for whatever the reasoning. It's your money, spend it any way you want. There is alot of posting about cables here and some cables are better than others. Some are so overpriced that only a fool would buy them. Unless I am dead wrong, all a cable should do is to interconnect from amplifiers to speakers, or cd/dvd players, etc. They should do this without adding any noise or hum or clipping or adding distortion. Coloration of the audible audio spectrum should be at a minimium. They should be sturdy. At best you want a clean signal transfer between components and speakers.

The human ear, connected to the human brain is a funny thing and we each have our own. And that is really the test, although some do have better hearing than others and may detect flaws which others may not. Hearing is somewhat a subjective thing. Years ago I worked on a some sessions with Stevie Wonder in a very high end recording studio. The guy had great hearing and was really a talent and a pleasure to work with. On playback of one of the cuts he said there was distortion and clipping on one of the instrument tracks. And he wanted it fixed. Absolutely no one else in the room could hear it. We called in one of the engineer techs and he methodically went to work. It took about 15 minutes of checking and measurements and he found a card which was off by a very small amount and he replaced it and we all went back to work. Later, the tech told me he was amazed that Stevie could hear that tiny amount of distortion, it should be inaudible. Maybe some of you have acute hearing too.

The home cable world? Alot of it is all marketing, like Monster and many other cables. This is a new revenue stream to be exploited. Jewelry for your set-up. Expensive jewelry too. Its your money--I don't care. Been in plenty of recording studios and the cableing is good quality "working man's" cable. $20 or $50 a foot....no way.

I bet if you call any quality recording studio and get a hold of a tech who talks, you will find they don't use jewelry. Unless the client requests it...and pays for it. None of this consumer home audio sucker crap. They use good high quality cable and interconnects, most of which is made in-house.

Anyway, all this cable stuff is just plain silly. You have been marketed to death by the audio industry and the salesmen who are making money off your vanity cables. And you believe it all, some of you. Like a car dealership....its a nice add-on...to the bill. You pay high for it and you will convince youself...it was worth it.

A cable should just do its job of sending a clean unadultrated signal. If you want jewelry you will pay for it. Pretty simple.

[Tony_Montana]

I bet if you call any quality recording studio and get a hold of a tech who talks, you will find they don't use jewelry.

That is not only true of recording studio, but also professional electronic labs that uses $20-50,000 instruments gears that are 1000 times more sensitive than any audio equipments :)

[bturk667]

One point. Monster Cable is been around for about thirty years, so it really isn't a new revenue stream. They must be doing something right. Imagine how many Audio only companies have come and gone in that time? It is your money, so spend it as you best see fit!

[Rockwell]

One point. Monster Cable is been around for about thirty years, so it really isn't a new revenue stream. They must be doing something right. Imagine how many Audio only companies have come and gone in that time? It is your money, so spend it as you best see fit!

Has Monster always been as expensive as the are now, or do they keep raising the bar with new hibux models? Retailers like Radio Shack are just realizing the money to be made selling audiophile cables. I worked for an electronics retailer about ten years ago, and cables have an extremely high markup, like 40-70%.

[Monstrous Mike]

One point. Monster Cable is been around for about thirty years, so it really isn't a new revenue stream. They must be doing something right. Imagine how many Audio only companies have come and gone in that time? It is your money, so spend it as you best see fit!
You know, it could very well have been Monster that started all this. Some genius came up with the idea of fancying up a cable and selling it for more. Once the idea got off the ground, the race was on.

[jackz4000]

Personally, I don't mean to bash monster or anyone else in the cable biz. They all fill a niche in the home audio biz and for someone who feels they need those cables...they bring a product to the market. Some of those cables look just great too. I gotta admit that. But, they are jewelry...a vanity product to a large degree. And there ain't anything wrong with anyone buying a vanity product with their hard earned money. Like any other vanity product there is no reason that they should not thrive as there are many different vanity products in other market segments. I think biz wise it is a great idea.

And the mark-up is good too. If someone wants them, I have no problem with that. Some look really cool. Unfortunately, to really "enjoy" them---I would have to make these cool looking cables viewable since my cableing is hidden under floors and behind walls etc.

On recording studios, which is where all this music is made which we listen to....if there was ever a client perception that these high end vanity cables were superior. The studios would definitely have the appropriate jewelry in plain sight. It would be a very tiny expense compared to the hourly billing rate. It too, would be good biz. If some rapper with the $$$ wants "gangster cable", rest assured it will be there for all his sessions. The mixer/engineer will even comment to his client that...it sounds better to him too. And back in his office the chief facility engineer will laugh and shake his head.

I think that the only rational test at home would be a blind test, doubleblind. And that would be a subjective audible sonic test in your own home. With your very own ears.

[bturk667]

Sorry, I can not answer that question. You see I do not have a price list of Monster Cables' products from thirty years ago nor do I work for them, and therefore I am not aware of the marketing strageties either. Any way, I'm a Nordost man! Talk about some expesive cables; have you seen the price of the Valkyrja and the Valhalla? Frickin' scary!

[Rockwell]

Sorry, I can not answer that question. You see I do not have a price list of Monster Cables' products from thirty years ago nor do I work for them, and therefore I am not aware of the marketing strageties either. Any way, I'm a Nordost man! Talk about some expesive cables; have you seen the price of the Valkyrja and the Valhalla? Frickin' scary!

Oh well, thirty years ago I was worrying about other things like learing to talk and such :)

[pctower]

Personally, I don't mean to bash monster or anyone else in the cable biz. They all fill a niche in the home audio biz and for someone who feels they need those cables...they bring a product to the market. Some of those cables look just great too. I gotta admit that. But, they are jewelry...a vanity product to a large degree. And there ain't anything wrong with anyone buying a vanity product with their hard earned money. Like any other vanity product there is no reason that they should not thrive as there are many different vanity products in other market segments. I think biz wise it is a great idea.

And the mark-up is good too. If someone wants them, I have no problem with that. Some look really cool. Unfortunately, to really "enjoy" them---I would have to make these cool looking cables viewable since my cableing is hidden under floors and behind walls etc.

On recording studios, which is where all this music is made which we listen to....if there was ever a client perception that these high end vanity cables were superior. The studios would definitely have the appropriate jewelry in plain sight. It would be a very tiny expense compared to the hourly billing rate. It too, would be good biz. If some rapper with the $$$ wants "gangster cable", rest assured it will be there for all his sessions. The mixer/engineer will even comment to his client that...it sounds better to him too. And back in his office the chief facility engineer will laugh and shake his head.

I think that the only rational test at home would be a blind test, doubleblind. And that would be a subjective audible sonic test in your own home. With your very own ears.

But, they are jewelry...a vanity product to a large degree. And there ain't anything wrong with anyone buying a vanity product with their hard earned money. Like any other vanity product there is no reason that they should not thrive as there are many different vanity products in other market segments.

What in the world do you base that statement on?

I've been in this hobby for over 30 years, and I can't say I have ever seen vanity associated with any part of this hobby. Audiophiles are geeks who wouldn't even know the meaning of vanity. I took my wife to CES this year, and she thought she had stumbled into the National Nerd Convention. Audiophiles are doing good if they are able to get their body odor under control occasionally. Their sound rooms look more like Frankstein's lab than a place where people who know how to dress themselves in the morning live.

In my experience, audiophiles buy expensive cables because to them they perceive improvements. The improvements may or may not be real, but the purchase of cables have nothing to do with vanity.

My friends wouldn't know a Monster Cable from a movie named Monster, and they all think I'm crazy. The best thing I can do to preserve what vanity I might have is keep them out of my sound room and never talk about anything audiophile. Occasionally I even take a shower.

[mtrycraft]

[b] I took my wife to CES this year, and she thought she had stumbled into the National Nerd Convention. .

And she is right, always right, didn't you learn this yet? :D

[bturk667]

I was playing with Army men. You know, G.I. JOE!!!

[N. Abstentia]

Marketing can work wonders, just look at Bose. Take a speaker that has $4 worth of parts, sell it for $1500, and tell people it sounds good. Pay Paul Harvey to shill for you and for some reason people think Bose speakers sound good. I don't get it!

[pctower]

Has Monster always been as expensive as the are now, or do they keep raising the bar with new hibux models? Retailers like Radio Shack are just realizing the money to be made selling audiophile cables. I worked for an electronics retailer about ten years ago, and cables have an extremely high markup, like 40-70%.

Cables are just like anything else with a high end, and most things have a high end. At the high end of anything, the manufacturers and retailers keep testing the upper limits of pricing and invariably find that there apparently are no upper limits.

It is a huge mistake to try and correlate true retail prices with cost of manufacturing and sales when it comes to high end. That has little to do with setting the price - what people are willing to pay has everything to do with it.

I just bought a new 2-wheel drive Yukon. It is pretty fully equipped, but I could have easily spent another 5 to 10 k on further upgrades (usually packaged in a way that if I wanted one particular upgrade, I'd have to buy a package with 4 other things I didn't want).

Then for another 2K I could have gotten 4-wheel drive which I would never use, but could feel real "cool" about. But why stop there. Why be so damn cheap! I could have bought a Denalli.

Oh hell, I'm still pinching pennies. After all, one doesn't buy a new vehicle every day. Might as well get a fully equipped Escalade. So for a mere 20K more I could have gotten something of real value.

But, then again I'm really thinking small. What a man of my stature and importance really needs is an H-2. I guess I probably should buy a new one as an intermim measure until the new H-3's are available.

Naw, I'm still thinking too small - what I really need is one of those new $538,000 double-length, articulated Phoenix buses that was the test drive subject of last Saturday's local weekly auto test report in the Arizona Republic.

However, now that I think of it - the report mentioned nothing about leather bucket seats - but there's got to be a good bus modder around someplace......

[Audie Oghaisle]

...Why did you buy the two wheel drive version?

If it were need for cargo room, you probably would have been better off with a pick-me-up-truck or even a van...you did sucumb to the in vogue/cool virus whether you want to admit it or not...

All the other vehicles you mention are pure pigs...no reason on the planet(other than the supposed "cool' factor) to own one...with the exception of the H2(and even IT'S a low-riding hog compared to the bona-fide Hummvee) they are useless on the trail...pure self-indulgence...

I despise the fact that SUVs are in vogue...the used to be relatively cheap, sturdy trucks...now most of them are a pathetic joke...I've owned and driven Jeeps for 25 years now and even they are going down the same path...recently the chairman of Daimler alluded to the value of the marque, but inferred it may not be applied to only "trail ready" vehicles...damned shame IMHO...killing-off the Cherokee was the first step(Wrangler Rubicon aside)...

My next vehicle will probably be a Volvo Cross Country or a Subaru Outback...something snow-capable and also capable of removing me from the herd of poseurs...although a base Liberty with the proper options on the mechanicals is a possibility...sorta'...

Audie

[omikey]

well, what is considered EXPENSIVE in the way of cables ?

Is $120 (from BlueJeans) for a 60 foot component (all 3 cables) RCA to BNC and expensive cable in your view ?

It wasn't to me, I bought it yesterday .... needed it, and it was much less expensive than many other options. And while some will say you could have made it yourself, (I wouldn't disagree with that) IMO you can not make the same quality connection at the termination points when making it yourself as you get when you purchase the cable. IMO the termination is very important when dealing with shielded cables.

[pctower]

...Why did you buy the two wheel drive version?

If it were need for cargo room, you probably would have been better off with a pick-me-up-truck or even a van...you did sucumb to the in vogue/cool virus whether you want to admit it or not...

All the other vehicles you mention are pure pigs...no reason on the planet(other than the supposed "cool' factor) to own one...with the exception of the H2(and even IT'S a low-riding hog compared to the bona-fide Hummvee) they are useless on the trail...pure self-indulgence...

I despise the fact that SUVs are in vogue...the used to be relatively cheap, sturdy trucks...now most of them are a pathetic joke...I've owned and driven Jeeps for 25 years now and even they are going down the same path...recently the chairman of Daimler alluded to the value of the marque, but inferred it may not be applied to only "trail ready" vehicles...damned shame IMHO...killing-off the Cherokee was the first step(Wrangler Rubicon aside)...

My next vehicle will probably be a Volvo Cross Country or a Subaru Outback...something snow-capable and also capable of removing me from the herd of poseurs...although a base Liberty with the proper options on the mechanicals is a possibility...sorta'...

Audie

Here's what I succumbed to, you moron.

I'm 6' 4" tall and weith 265. My height is disporotionately distributed above my waste. Full size SUVs and pick-up trucks are the only vehicles I can sit in comfortably and are the only vehicles I can get in and out of without substantial strain on my back (with which I have had a lifetime of trouble). This has become increasingly important as cars have gotten smaller and smaller.

When I was younger and raising a family I drove Suburbans. They had the space I wanted for my family and were comfortable to drive. The first year the Tahoe was introduced I traded in my Suburban for one. I didn't need as much space then, wanted a smaller vehicle that I could still fit in comfortably and the Tahoe was perfect.

The last Tahoe I owned went off lease last year and I just turned it in and bought a pickup as an interim vehicle. My wife hated it, so when GM started deeply discounting its SUVs and trucks, I got rid of it and bought the Yukon.

I got the 2-wheel drive because I find the established roads in Arizona perfectly adequate for my purposes and have no need to venture off and tear up the environment.

I get amused at the fuss over SUVs. If the government ever bans them, I will join the government in the class action suit I'm planning to file someday against the airlines to enjoin them from their blatant discrimination against tall, long-legged, or large passengers.

So, in closing, I suggest in the future you don't go shooting off your mouth before you know all the facts.

[Audie Oghaisle]

..."Here's what I succumbed to, you moron..."

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Did I say anything rude to you...if I did, a thousand pardons affendi...I forgive you, as does my alter ego...it was his idea...y'orta check your private messages once in a while...

My comments were based on the few lines you provided...even if I (and I can only speak for I, based on I's experience) never thought I'd ever need 4WD in such a vehicle, I'd still spring for it...the trade-in or resale value on a non-abused 4WD vehicle is probably higher than on that of a 2WD unit...but as my friend Vito says "sauzeech his own!"...plus they have a higher towing capacity, if I'm not mistaken...

I am 6ft and 220 and have chronic sciatica so I know from whence you come re: ease of entry...the WAF is a hard nut to crack...luckily mine was the one who suggested a CJ7 in 1980...

"...I got the 2-wheel drive because I find the established roads in Arizona perfectly adequate for my purposes and have no need to venture off and tear up the environment..."

Yeah, I forgot...no snow, or mud...do you travel anywhere else? You have obviously never heard of the "Tread Lightly" or "Leave No Trace" principles...any responsible 4wheeler knows and adheres to their precepts...it's the beer-swillin', garbage dumpin' @$$hole yahoos, that give the whole group a bad name...plus, the auto manufacturers don't help with some of their banzaii, stump-jumpin' ads...most of us cherish the land and use our vehicles to get closer to it in it's primeval state...we drive to established trailheads and hike the rest...There are also sponsored and sanctioned events for families to attend and ORV parks specifically for those who try to pit man and machine against what may seem to some, insurrmountable obstacles...

"...So, in closing, I suggest in the future you don't go shooting off your mouth before you know all the facts..."

My comments specifically re: your situatuion aside, the rest of my missive(in fact the bulk of it) was quite factual...I enjoy taking manufacturers to task...especially those who kowtow to the "market demands" in a market they themselves have created...diluting what was once a small, sorta' exclusive segment of the market and produced fat, gas-guzzling behemoths and glorified station wagons in the bargain...Hmmm...sounds like another marketing scheme debated about 'round these parts...

Audie(...how is that new job, anywho?...)

[Audie Oghaisle]

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