Precious....

[Worf101]

I really want to talk about this movie. I have to get this down in writing and get it off my chest. I avoided this film like the plague. My old lady wanted to see it in the worst way, I demured. Why? Cause I lived with enough girls like Precious growing up, they live in my family, they ride the school buses in my town, I see and hear them/her dail. Why see a celluloid depiction of her miserable life writ large on the screen?

Well I went and saw the elephant and now I'm so mad I can chew lead and spit bullets. A reviewer from the New York Times compared this film to D.W. Griffiths "Birth of A Nation" and he's not far wrong. This is the most vile, evil, one sided depiction of African American's in the history of American Film. It panders to every low, moronic, despicable stereotype of African American life you can imagine. All men save one are mysoginistic, incestuous brutes. The women depicted are little better. All the characters are painted with the broadest brush in the blackest blacks and the whitest whites. It's as vile and unnecessary a bout of filmic torture as Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ".

I'm so pissed about this I don't know who else to talk to about this film with except you folks. If this film were produced about any other race or culture there'd be riots in the the street and there SHOULD be riots over this travesty but there won't be... why? Because, as has happened so often in the past, the dirty deed was perpetrated by member of the party portrayed.

Tyler Perry should be ashamed of himself. I put up with his stereotypic tripe before with the whole Madea series because... it was a joke, much like him. However, when you switch from making broad brush "comedies" to "serious dramatic works" you are then required to raise your art to a more serious level. The depictions of Black men int his film place them right up there with villians from Uncle Tom's Cabin and other moral tomes from centuries past. There are no nuances, no subtlties no characterizations black men are just beasts!!! Animals, Criminals. Inexcusable when you've a world and a country already willing to believe the worst about black men as it is. I'm sure the TeaBag Nazi's are slurrping this film up like beer as "proof positive" from a Black Man as to the degraded beasts they are.

Oprah Winfrey is almost as guilty as Perry in this. This writes large what I've always felt about her... she hates men and hates black men with a passion. Take a look at all the films she's been a part of "The Color Purple", "Beloved" and now this chite? What's the one overiding theme? Black men as beasts and vermin. The only persons of any value are Precious herself and her lesbian saviours. Are you effin' ****tin me?

I'm not saying that the story of Precious is false, I know too many girls like her and families like her's to say that. But I also know that they exist in all colors, all races all cultures. If the Irish, Italians of Indian's were potrayed in this manner they'd burn the studio down!!!! Now if this film was not made for entertainment or enlightement, and I say it was made for neither in that it neither entertains nor enlightens, then why was it made.

Precious was made for one God Damn reason and one alone... to make Tyler Perry money and fame. No major motion picture depicting the flaws of Black people has ever lost money in America and they never will. Tyler Perry is the worst kind of explotive film maker he panders to the racists for pay. He gives them what they want to see for dirty money. Black Actresses and Actors can't win an Oscar unless they play crazed individuals, terrribly flawed people or old time house negros. "Traning Day" "Last King of Scotland", "Monsters Ball" vs. "Driving Miss Daisy", "Gone With the Wind" or Lillies of the Field". You tell me which I should be madder about?

Dammit I'm mad, I've not been this mad about a film in my entire life and trust me I'll be sending a copy of this to Mr. Perry as well.

Worf

[Troy]

Wow.

Sic 'em Worf, sic 'em!

I agree, Tyler Perry's a money grubbing douche and Oprah's a damaged hater. I don't understand why people idolize these bums.

[JohnMichael]

Worf thanks for the review. You saved me from seeing this one.

[ForeverAutumn]

Wow Worf. That's some pretty heavy ****. I probably wouldn't have seen this one anyway, but now I won't, for sure.

[Auricauricle]

From your comments, it would appear that Perry's portraitures of Black America is typical of what has become so pervasively acceptable as "the norm" here, in the good ole USA film-making industry. It seems to be the standard practice, to shine a harsh light on various people with little regard to the nuances of culture and circumstance that make them infinitely more complicated and fascinating than these cutout depictions. Unfortunately, I fear, in some smug sense, this is the sort of palaver that is fed to the masses. With such banal tripe being trumped up by pundits like Oprah and the minions of mainstream media, the public snaps it all up unaware that they have been duped again. More insidiously, the subtext--that Blacks are universally violent and cruel; that White Southerners are universally ignorant and racist; that Jewish people are all benign and musically sensitive--wends its way into their psyches, thus perpetuating the stereotypical archetypes that make unthinking zombies of all of us.

Perhaps I am being hyperbolic and prolix once again. If this be the case, I apologize dear friends, but this is a matter that should be discussed and discussed often. It is this forum and site that I am comforted, knowing that in spite of being reminded day in and out that I exist in a throng of unwitting and unthinking individuals, there are people out there who actually THINK. Yet, as I dismay the teeming throng's herd-like tendency to blithely go along with things, I cannot help but wonder if such an assessment is altogether fair? Is my dismissive sneer towards my fellow man really just?

In my snobbishness, I sometimes forget my numerous conversations with various people in the bars and coffee shops that I frequent on those nights when the drone of the television becomes a mind-numbing thing. I’d much rather numb my brain with a good drink than with the burning glow of CNN! In either case, I have learned that there are many persons who are just as thinking and sensitive as those who attend this site. While most of our every-day encounters would scarcely betray the fevered pulse of our brethren, I have learned that earnest conversations—even if they are fifteen minutes in length (about the time one has for a quick lunch these days—can be had. In such encounters I have learned that people, many more than one would think, are much more canny than my sneering glances are indeed quite unnecessary.

Hollywood and the moguls of popular culture and media should take note of this, for in a similar way they have become just as smug as I. With their facile movies and music, it would appear that we live in a cesspool wherein issues such as racism, sexuality, culture, religiosity and so forth are clearly and distinctly discernable and can be paced into neat and discrete chunks that have little flavor and less nutritional benefit. True, there is a time and place for such things: in parody and in satire. In the real world, we know that things are more complicated, but when artists and the “intellectual elite” pass off these things as legitimate, it makes idiots of all of us.

I am glad, Worf, that you have the nerve, the gall, to describe your discontent, and I share your concern that they only serve to pander to the likes of “Tea-bag Nazis” (nice term, that!) and the like whose deformed intellects will not permit anything but that which rings “true” to their lobotomized ethos. Hollywood needs to wise up and awaken to the reality that the man (or woman) on the street is generally much smarter than one may think; that while such a man may not live in a world of chauffeurs and caviar and all things “beautiful” he is just as aware and hip to things as anyone. Posts like yours Worf, are but a start, and hopefully a marker, that such a dialog exists; but that dialog needs to be voiced more frequently and more publicly. Pundits like Oprah and filmmakers like Perry, who espouse and support such rubbish as legitimate characterizations of reality, ought to be challenged and contested.

Wake up Hollywood! “We’re mad as Hell and we’re not gonna take it anymore!”


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[Hyfi]

Anything endorsed by Oprah I avoid like the plague. She is so two faced and racist that I cannot stand to look at her let alone watch her show or any movie she promotes.

Have you ever noticed that she is two people, one person when dealing with white guests and a whole other person when dealing with black guests?

Shame your wife could not wait for the $1.00 redbox rental as she wasted your hard earned cash on crapola.

[ForeverAutumn]

Have you ever noticed that she is two people, one person when dealing with white guests and a whole other person when dealing with black guests?


Hey Hyfi. Wouldn't you have to watch her show to notice that? :biggrin5:

[Feanor]

Worf, for heaven's sake, you can relax on my account. I wasn't planning to see Precious, (in fact I'd forgotten it existed until you mentioned it).

[Hyfi]

Hey Hyfi. Wouldn't you have to watch her show to notice that? :biggrin5:

That was what stopped me from watching, you can see it in the commercials anyway.

[Auricauricle]

Oprah came to Charleston just a few days after Hurricane Hugo smashed through. For many, she was quite inspirational and a source of great comfort. Gotta give her that.

Still....

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[ForeverAutumn]

I don't want to derail Worf's angry rant by having this thread turn into a thread about Oprah. So I've started a Oprah Sound Off thread in the off-topic forum. :)

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=32356

[Auricauricle]

Yer...right...Me so 'shamed.... <shuffles feet, fidgets>

[ForeverAutumn]

Yer...right...Me so 'shamed.... <shuffles feet, fidgets>

Don't be 'shamed. I just thought it was a good topic to discuss and we'd get more action on it in off-topic.

[JohnMichael]

Worf in my own life I have had to fight stereotypes. No I am not a beautician and yes your son is safe around me. There are those who like to think I am immoral and lack self control. Men who are not comfortable around me because they might not be safe. Of course they have no idea that I am not attracted to every man in the world. Oh and they do not realize they are repulsive and have bad hygiene. Yes, really, I can do my own car repairs.

I also hate being painted with that broad brush. No I can not tell you how all gays feel and I am not their spokes model. We are all unique individuals and I can not explain someone else's behaviors. If you meet someone who is gay in California they probably will not know me.

[frenchmon]

I really want to talk about this movie. I have to get this down in writing and get it off my chest. I avoided this film like the plague. My old lady wanted to see it in the worst way, I demured. Why? Cause I lived with enough girls like Precious growing up, they live in my family, they ride the school buses in my town, I see and hear them/her dail. Why see a celluloid depiction of her miserable life writ large on the screen?

Well I went and saw the elephant and now I'm so mad I can chew lead and spit bullets. A reviewer from the New York Times compared this film to D.W. Griffiths "Birth of A Nation" and he's not far wrong. This is the most vile, evil, one sided depiction of African American's in the history of American Film. It panders to every low, moronic, despicable stereotype of African American life you can imagine. All men save one are mysoginistic, incestuous brutes. The women depicted are little better. All the characters are painted with the broadest brush in the blackest blacks and the whitest whites. It's as vile and unnecessary a bout of filmic torture as Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ".

I'm so pissed about this I don't know who else to talk to about this film with except you folks. If this film were produced about any other race or culture there'd be riots in the the street and there SHOULD be riots over this travesty but there won't be... why? Because, as has happened so often in the past, the dirty deed was perpetrated by member of the party portrayed.

Tyler Perry should be ashamed of himself. I put up with his stereotypic tripe before with the whole Madea series because... it was a joke, much like him. However, when you switch from making broad brush "comedies" to "serious dramatic works" you are then required to raise your art to a more serious level. The depictions of Black men int his film place them right up there with villians from Uncle Tom's Cabin and other moral tomes from centuries past. There are no nuances, no subtlties no characterizations black men are just beasts!!! Animals, Criminals. Inexcusable when you've a world and a country already willing to believe the worst about black men as it is. I'm sure the TeaBag Nazi's are slurrping this film up like beer as "proof positive" from a Black Man as to the degraded beasts they are.

Oprah Winfrey is almost as guilty as Perry in this. This writes large what I've always felt about her... she hates men and hates black men with a passion. Take a look at all the films she's been a part of "The Color Purple", "Beloved" and now this chite? What's the one overiding theme? Black men as beasts and vermin. The only persons of any value are Precious herself and her lesbian saviours. Are you effin' ****tin me?

I'm not saying that the story of Precious is false, I know too many girls like her and families like her's to say that. But I also know that they exist in all colors, all races all cultures. If the Irish, Italians of Indian's were potrayed in this manner they'd burn the studio down!!!! Now if this film was not made for entertainment or enlightement, and I say it was made for neither in that it neither entertains nor enlightens, then why was it made.

Precious was made for one God Damn reason and one alone... to make Tyler Perry money and fame. No major motion picture depicting the flaws of Black people has ever lost money in America and they never will. Tyler Perry is the worst kind of explotive film maker he panders to the racists for pay. He gives them what they want to see for dirty money. Black Actresses and Actors can't win an Oscar unless they play crazed individuals, terrribly flawed people or old time house negros. "Traning Day" "Last King of Scotland", "Monsters Ball" vs. "Driving Miss Daisy", "Gone With the Wind" or Lillies of the Field". You tell me which I should be madder about?

Dammit I'm mad, I've not been this mad about a film in my entire life and trust me I'll be sending a copy of this to Mr. Perry as well.

Worf


I feel ya pain Worf. Me being a black man my self (and not french as some seem to think, I'm frenchmon because of my last name) I'm tired of the silliness when it comes to blacks portrayed in some of these movies by our own kind. Most think all blacks are as portrayed in some of these movies especially when its made by blacks. I live in an upscale white neighborhood and you should have seen the looks that we got when we first moved here. I know a white kid who lives near me and his parents seem to have a negative outlook on blacks...not because of any dealings with blacks, but because of the stereotypical non-sense.

frenchmon

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Anything endorsed by Oprah I avoid like the plague. She is so two faced and racist that I cannot stand to look at her let alone watch her show or any movie she promotes.

Have you ever noticed that she is two people, one person when dealing with white guests and a whole other person when dealing with black guests?

As a person who has worked on a talk show (remember Arsenio Hall?), rule number one is to make your guest comfortable. Both races require a different approach to getting them comfortable, and I know this because there are two races within my own biologic family, and three when you include my parents who raised me. Food is what makes the Hispanic side of my family more comfortable, and drinks whether alcoholic or not is what makes the European side of my family more comfortable. The Euro side of my family is more quiet and reserved, the Hispanic side more boisterous and loud, with lots of hand and arm gestures. Then you add in my God parents (I call them Mom and Dad) that practically raised me, and the African American influence is added to the mix. They are much like the Hispanic side of my family without the Spanish. Its called cultural difference, and I think Oprah understands that well, and contributes to her success as a talk show host. Based on who Oprah calls her friends, she could hardly be characterized as racist.

[frenchmon]

...Oprah.....could hardly be characterized as racist.


I thought call her racist was rather an odd thing to say...she is not a racist in the slightest.

frenchmon

[poppachubby]

I'm with Terrence, my mother is Jamaican and my father french European. Very different indeed.

Worf, I know the topic of race is probably at the top of the list, but let's face it, the corporate world has degraded our music, movies and art. Through this, we are sent all kinds of messages, direct or indirect about a variety of things. Race, religion, money....

This movie is a shame if it is really all you say it is. Especially coming from successful African Americans like Perry.

I feel your passion when I turn on the radio and get told about the new "saviours" of rock. Or worse, have to listen to the same old song for the 1000th time. I barely watch TV anymore, mostly because it's so inane. I don't watch alot of movies, just kung fu mostly, but what I'm hearing from you doesn't surprise me at all.

I suppose all you can do is smash these stereotypes by how you live your own life. Living well is the best revenge...

BTW, to brighten the movie topic up, did you watch Zatoichi? Sounds like you could have used a Zatoichi cameo half way through Precious. He could just storm into the room and chop off the heads of all who annoy you!!

Now that's a flick I'll pay to see...

[Worf101]

I don't mind the truth, the truth will set us free. But tell the WHOLE truth, not he half that's easy or convenient. It can be done! How do I know? Look at "The Wire". It dealt with crime, punishment, politics, violence, drugs and all of societies ills but it did this with compassion, balance, intelligence and intellectual and artistic honesty. That is all I ask, show me as bad if you will but show the good as well.

Worf

[Hyfi]

I thought call her racist was rather an odd thing to say...she is not a racist in the slightest.

frenchmon
Your right, bad choice of word.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I went to see this movie last night, and while I got a different perception than Worf, I can truly understand his anger. The portrayal of black men in this movie is quite frankly awful, but not exportable to all black men. If it was exportable, then Tyler Perry and Lee Daniels would be telling the world they are just like the men in this movie. My God father who raised me is black, and he is nothing like any of the men in this movie. Just to be truthful, neither Perry or Oprah had anything to do with the production of this movie, they just lent their names and money to the project.

While the content of the movie is disturbing, the acting performances and script was first rate and definitely worthy of Oscar and Academy consideration. I agree with Worf that this dysfunction could happen with any race - the focus was set based on the book which pinpointed African Americans as the subject matter. You must remember that this is a movie based on a book, not a movie created from scratch. I read the book, and now I have seen the film, and it is pretty faithful to the book. I think the blame here might be a little mis-directed. If any blame or finger pointing needs to be done (and I am not sure there is a need) it should go to the author of the book Sapphire, and not Daniels, Perry or Oprah.

I listened to an interview with Sapphire on NPR on my way to work, and according to that interview, Sapphire turned down 15 different directors because she believed they would water down the adaptation of the movie from the book. She wanted somebody who would faithfully translate the book to the screen. When Daniels approached her, she turned him down the first two times, but his persistence finally made her relent. When you look at this film, you are not looking through Daniel's, Perry's, or Oprah's eyes, but Sapphires. This film was made and presented at the Sundance film festival before Perry and Oprah even heard about it. It was only after the film won critical acclaim that Perry and Oprah came in to the picture. Perry is a heavy weight at Lionsgate studios, and used his clout to get the movie distributed.

Unlike Worf, I didn't see all negativity in this film. I saw hopes and dreams of success beaming through the darkness which was Precious life. I saw a girl with everything against her rise up and be an overcomer. I saw a young girl who was abused by a sick father, and a give up on life mother, hoping to be a better mother to her kids than her mother was to her. Rather than looking at all of the negativity, I choose to focus on the young girl's struggle to love herself rather than relying on her mother or her father to love her. In this light, this film triumphs in a big way. This young women wins in what is seemingly a no win situation, and that shows a strong sense of character (a good and positive thing), a trait common among many black women. I chose not to be microscopic with my analysis of this movie, but to look at it as a whole production and a whole story. I was deeply moved by what I saw, and my enthusiasm for the film has prompted interest from my sons. We are going to see it together this weekend.

The way this kind of film hits you is a matter of your own perspective. If you move two inches to the right or left, or up and down, your perspective changes. With the understanding that Worf didn't want to see the movie in the first place, and doesn't really care much for its producers, I can completely understand his take on this movie. I don't share Worf's feelings on any of these levels, and that is probably why my perspective on this is a bit different. I wanted to see this film, and I like both Oprah and Perry.

Worf, I can assure you the slurping tea Nazi's don't need this film to bolster their beliefs. They are going to believe exactly what they want even if the evidence points in the opposite direction. They are selective in their reasoning, and dismissive of their own destructive actions. They were this way before this film even hit the screens, and they are not going change. I truly respect your feelings, and can clearly understand them. You have to keep in mind that you are not like the men depicted in this film, my father is not like that, our President is not like that, and many millions of black men are not like that. If folks do not understand that this is just a movie based on a fictional book, and not a reflection of what black men truly are, then that is their ignorance and stupidity.

I am Cuban and Puerto Rican with a heavy sprinkle of British. This story could have been based on my culture, and still seemed credible to watch. This could have easily been another version of Cinderella without the ball. Whatever, it is not about race, it is about triumph in a no win situation. This is just my perspective on the film.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Okay poppa, I am really feeling this post!



I'm with Terrence, my mother is Jamaican and my father french European. Very different indeed.

This sounds like a man that really understands my upbringing. A family reunion call be a staggering challenge to manage. Getting people from different cultures to mingle is not as easy as the concept. Consistent exposure is the key.



Worf, I know the topic of race is probably at the top of the list, but let's face it, the corporate world has degraded our music, movies and art. Through this, we are sent all kinds of messages, direct or indirect about a variety of things. Race, religion, money...

Yep, turn it into a moneterized commodity, packaged it, and spewed it out one the airwaves and disc's. It did a real great job of teaching us how to interact with each other. :rolleyes:


I barely watch TV anymore, mostly because it's so inane. I don't watch alot of movies, just kung fu mostly, but what I'm hearing from you doesn't surprise me at all.

I with you on the TV thing, but I do watch a whole lot of movies at theaters and at home. I love a good high quality movie theater, it is a place (considering what I do for a living) I feel very much at home. I love home theaters (again because of my job) because I like watching movies in a place that is right at my finger tips. TV is the biggest turn off for me, and it didn't used to be like that.


I suppose all you can do is smash these stereotypes by how you live your own life. Living well is the best revenge...

Bingo. I was told I would never make any money as a audio and film mixer and designer, and should just give up. I smashed that theory in less than three years after leaving college. It happened right before my detractors very eyes. Revenge and hate for all of the negativity no es necesario. :hand:

[poppachubby]

Okay poppa, I am really feeling this post!




This sounds like a man that really understands my upbringing. A family reunion call be a staggering challenge to manage. Getting people from different cultures to mingle is not as easy as the concept. Consistent exposure is the key.




Yep, turn it into a moneterized commodity, packaged it, and spewed it out one the airwaves and disc's. It did a real great job of teaching us how to interact with each other. :rolleyes:



I with you on the TV thing, but I do watch a whole lot of movies at theaters and at home. I love a good high quality movie theater, it is a place (considering what I do for a living) I feel very much at home. I love home theaters (again because of my job) because I like watching movies in a place that is right at my finger tips. TV is the biggest turn off for me, and it didn't used to be like that.



Bingo. I was told I would never make any money as a audio and film mixer and designer, and should just give up. I smashed that theory in less than three years after leaving college. It happened right before my detractors very eyes. Revenge and hate for all of the negativity no es necesario. :hand:

Cool Terrence, the last "reunion" we had was just outside of LA. Of course, only about 40% of the family was there but it still added up to around 150 people. Big and diverse...I love it!!

[Auricauricle]

Shortly after I moved to Charleston, I met the lady who would be my wife and in short fashion we moved in together for a life of sin and debauchery. Along the way, we met a clerk at a local video store we frequented, and she became a nice acquaintance of ours. About a year ago or so, wife and I were enjoying a drink at a favorite haunt, and lo and behold, we met this friend, who was now in charge of operations there! We had not seen each other in a number of years (through moves and courses, we went astray), so we got reacquainted and soon became nice friends. At length, I asked her her last name, and learned, to my shock and happy amazement, that she is, in fact, a cousin of whom I had no knowledge.

About 8 months or thereabouts ago, this newlyfound cousin invited my wife and me to a memorial service for her grandmother. Honored, we agreed to attend. As soon as arrived, I was floored when I saw that the congregation of the church was nearly entirely Black (forgive me, I think African American is a rather derogatory term). It turns out, that in this paarticular branch of the family (who is still a matter of mystery) is composed of a great number of Blacks who are related to and descended from the forebears and kinsfolk of a great great aunt of mine, a celebrated artist here in Charleston.

I have heard rumors that there is a possibility that there are pygmies in the Congo who carry our last name. Besides that, seeing these people and meeting them--such wonderful and good people they are--has enriched my life and sense of self like nothing I have heretofore experienced.

I grew up not really giving much mind to racial differences or the onus of intransigent bigotry. It just never made sense to me. Nevertheless, this singular experience has filled me with such great pride and satisfaction that I can hardly state it more clearly....

Below is a sample of work by that artist, whose life and existence means so much more than I ever thought...