Linn Says Goodbye to CD Players!!!! Like Pix would say:

[Ajani]

CDs are DEAD :1:

Major UK HiFi Company Linn, has announced that it will cease production of CD players at the start of 2010. And will focus on its digital music systems instead:

http://whathifi.com/News/Linn-to-cease-production-of-CD-players-in-2010/

This is a bold move, but makes sense based on both the great sales Linn is having of media servers and the fact that it has been heavily pushing its High Res download site...

Congratulations to Linn for embracing the times!!! (while at the same time continuing to sell turntables - funny how turntables will probably continue as a niche market product even long after CD Players are gone)...

[poppachubby]

Although I doubt they would ever do it, it would be nice to see Linn make a push in the TT market with a "budget" table. I'm sure this would be seen as degrading the brand but with no CD players to produce, why not?

Man I would love to own a Linn table someday...

[E-Stat]

Man I would love to own a Linn table someday...
Buy one used or get a very similar Ariston model. The RD-11s was the immediate forerunner to the original LP-12 having both been originally designed by Hamish Robertson. It uses the same motor and has virtually the same chassis and suspension setup. I purchased my RD-11s back in '76 and it still works like a champ today. Over the years, I've used a few different arms with it: SME 3009 Type II, Transcriptors Vestigal. Grace 740, Souther TQ-1 and currently back to what it started out with, a slightly newer version of the ever classic SME 3009. There's a pic in my gallery.

rw

[Mr Peabody]

I hope some one will continue making high quality CD players. I hate to think I have all these discs and no way to listen to them. If something like that was to happen it might make me give up on this hobby. I couldn't deal with being left high & dry like that.

[nightflier]

Mr.P, I seriously doubt this means that CD is dead. After all, how many times have people said that LPs were dead?

As for Linn, it does surprise me a tad as they had some excellent players over the years. I was always kind of sad that they never did anything with SACD, either.

[Ajani]

I hope some one will continue making high quality CD players. I hate to think I have all these discs and no way to listen to them. If something like that was to happen it might make me give up on this hobby. I couldn't deal with being left high & dry like that.

Why would you have no way to listen to them? I haven't owned a CD player since 2006, but I still buy CDs....

[poppachubby]

I hope some one will continue making high quality CD players. I hate to think I have all these discs and no way to listen to them. If something like that was to happen it might make me give up on this hobby. I couldn't deal with being left high & dry like that.

Don't worry Peabody, you can borrow some of my vinyl, anytime for that matter!

[Mr Peabody]

Ajani, I was thinking if some day down the road something was to happen to my CD player then what? I am not into servers, it's a lot of work getting the music on there and it sort of takes some fun out of it. Besides I still have my doubts as to sound quality. That may be remedied some by then though. I know there's good DAC's, it's just still debateable on how good the delivery system is. Not by me as I've not used servers but from what I read.

Poppa, I still have plenty of vinyl, just titles are on either or. I wished I had kept some of the vinyl I let go way back thinking CD was the way to go. I probably have close to 500 Lp's in my actual collection and close to 300 or so I still need to check out for quality of vinyl and music to see if I keep them or send them on the way.

[Ajani]

Ajani, I was thinking if some day down the road something was to happen to my CD player then what? I am not into servers, it's a lot of work getting the music on there and it sort of takes some fun out of it.

Well yes and no... it depends on how you get the music on there... some persons devote a whole weekend just to ripping albums to a Server (that is a lot of work)... less stressful options include: paying someone to do it for you/buying a server that offers that service (Olive Opus comes to mind)... and.... Ripping only a CD at a time... so only rip a CD just before you want to play it... In fact, depending on the server you setup, some can start playing as soon as the first song is ripped (iTunes for example does this)... so you don't even have to wait for the whole album to rip to start listening (just a few seconds for a song)...

I basically used the last option... However, I did it sequentially for all my CDs... so I listened to at least one song from each of my CDs... I found it was a great way to find music I had long forgotten that I own and it was stress free...


Besides I still have my doubts as to sound quality. That may be remedied some by then though. I know there's good DAC's, it's just still debateable on how good the delivery system is. Not by me as I've not used servers but from what I read.

I think you might be reading articles from skeptics... Many of the major HiFi mags and brands who have strong expertise in CD Players (Linn being the most obvious example) are pushing music servers forward and claiming that they sound better than CD Players... Plus, Music Servers are able to handle High Resolution Audio (quality better than CDs and even SACD is being pushed)...

I don't think you need to worry about sound quality...

[poppachubby]

Besides I still have my doubts as to sound quality. .

I don't really know which is better to be honest. All I can say is that the digital route sounds plenty good. That is, lossless through a DAC.

As far as it being alot of work and such, are you speaking to the big picture when you say that? I mean, like ripping your whole collection type of work? Honestly, it's 10 times easier to use than CD w/ CDP, I just pick up my remote and BAM, I have tons of albums only a touch away. Also, my fave feature is the ability to shuffle in so many different ways, by artist, album, genre or my entire catalogue if I want to.

Why don't you try just ripping only a few albums, your top ten perhaps? Like an experiment to see what you think. I know you like comparitive listening, would make a great thread...

[pixelthis]

Mr.P, I seriously doubt this means that CD is dead. After all, how many times have people said that LPs were dead?

As for Linn, it does surprise me a tad as they had some excellent players over the years. I was always kind of sad that they never did anything with SACD, either.

LP'S have this cachet that CD lacks.
This is huge, Linn is known for their high-end players.
The limitations of CD are going to catch up to it, sub gig in a terabyte world.
Hate to see it, but its already apparent.:1:

[Mr Peabody]

I'm sure Linn made good players and I had an opportunity to hear one costing $20k. It did sound great but you'd expect nothing less for $20k. It may be what area one is in or if Linn is sold in that area but when thinking of good quality CD players Linn usually didn't come up in conversation. Even when Linn was sold here in town their CD players weren't really in the line up. All of this to say, the announcement is significant but the market isn't going to suffer or even notice the absence.

[Feanor]

Why would you have no way to listen to them? I haven't owned a CD player since 2006, but I still buy CDs....
Exactly. One can distinguish between the CD as playback medium and as distribution medium. I haven't used my CDP in months.

On the other hand I'm not about to accept lossy downloads as a substitute for CD quality.

[hifitommy]

is likely to be waning in this economy. its not to say that linn wont return to the high end players in some distant future time. at any rate, there are plenty of other worthy contenders.

i doubt if i will ever afford a five figure player of ANY kind ut if i had the dough, i would be testing those waters. analog first though.

[02audionoob]

I honestly don't see how it makes any difference whether Linn makes CD players. Wake me up when the Japanese brands get out.

[Woochifer]

Where's the market for standalone CD players, period? Aside from Sony, very few of the electronics giants even make standalone CD players anymore. With hundreds of millions of CD players already out there, and newer multifunction devices like DVD players perfectly capable of also playing CDs or feeding a digital bitstream into a receiver or outboard DAC, that's where the mainstream market went.

No surprise that a high end manufacturer has chosen to abandon the CD player market. Here too, you have thousands of high end units already out there, and a huge glut of manufacturers that still make high end CD players. Given that most high end consumers already own a standalone CD player, you just don't have much growth potential in that market.

High end digital server components are a relatively untapped market. You simply have a much larger number of high end audio rigs that don't have a digital server. Also, you have a lot less competition in that space right now.

In the high end CD player market, Linn was just another face in a very crowded field selling to a shrinking audience. (Their heritage with high end turntables predates the digital era, and they have legendary products on their resume) With high end servers, they face less competition and a potentially growing market.

[pixelthis]

High end servers are a ripoff, basically.
AN old computer and an outboard dac can do the job just as well.
With Itunes or other such, any computer can become a "server".
aiats the ultimate in gall to charge thousands for something you can get at
office depot for three hundred bucks.
Not like audio is very demanding.
My computer plays HD, audio is a walk in the park.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

One has to also note that recordings are no longer optimized for two channel output. Almost all recordings done today are recorded multichannel, and mixdown for two channel use. The world of tomorrow is multichannel, and the Blu-ray specs are far better than CD, SACD, and DVD-A. With the ability to lay down 8 channels of 24/192khz information (far better than SACD and DVD-A) I wouldn't look to the CD format for state of the art recordings any longer. It is a format that is long in the tooth, saturated, and which no company is spending R&D money on. Linn is smart to get out of this market.

I cannot see where they are going wrong here. High end CD players are a niche market, and so is music servers. However music servers are fast becoming a crowded market with Kaleidoscope leading the way. They have even figured out how to get the server loaded without much work. The have a speed reader which allows you to just pile the discs onto the reader, and it loads the server itself. The problem with music servers is price, which will keep it a niche market until someone is smart enough to create a quality product at a reasonable and less nosebleed price.

The problem I see with the music server business is its reliance on the CD and DVD. Both of this formats are in their waning years of dominance, and there really is no support for formats beyond this. A lot of folks that can afford a music server are really nervous (and inexperienced) about digital files based on downloads. Secondly it is likely they will not be able to support Blu-ray disc as it would violate the DMCA rules to do so. That is being battled out in court right now, and if the BDA wins, there goes their future format support. So it appears they are hedging their bets here.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

High end servers are a ripoff, basically.
AN old computer and an outboard dac can do the job just as well.
With Itunes or other such, any computer can become a "server".
aiats the ultimate in gall to charge thousands for something you can get at
office depot for three hundred bucks.
Not like audio is very demanding.
My computer plays HD, audio is a walk in the park.:1:

Using an old computer for high quality music is quite frankly not very smart. Computers produce tremendous amounts of RFI that can produce distortion that sound like digital hash. That same distortion can also affect a pre-pro or a receiver as well.

There is a lot of work that must be done to make a computer match the quality of a dedicated music server, it is not just simply slapping a bunch of digital music files and calling it a music server.

[poppachubby]

Using an old computer for high quality music is quite frankly not very smart. Computers produce tremendous amounts of RFI that can produce distortion that sound like digital hash. That same distortion can also affect a pre-pro or a receiver as well.

There is a lot of work that must be done to make a computer match the quality of a dedicated music server, it is not just simply slapping a bunch of digital music files and calling it a music server.

Correct. Also pix mentioned Itunes, but Itunes will not operate with any OS older than Win2000. So you see, already the "old" starts to be a problem. Personally I want my computer to be able to fully handle the requirements that come from digital based music. Files and file management, my onboard soundcard, audio players, programs to rip, and on and on...

Also Terrence, I actually bought my soundcard with the intention to rip LP's. I find with editing the result is quite pleasant. I'm not too worried about CD's and DVDs going away. But that's just me...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Correct. Also pix mentioned Itunes, but Itunes will not operate with any OS older than Win2000. So you see, already the "old" starts to be a problem. Personally I want my computer to be able to fully handle the requirements that come from digital based music. Files and file management, my onboard soundcard, audio players, programs to rip, and on and on...

Also Terrence, I actually bought my soundcard with the intention to rip LP's. I find with editing the result is quite pleasant. I'm not too worried about CD's and DVDs going away. But that's just me...

My problem with a computer based music server would be noise in my theater. Even if it could be located away from my listening space, it would still be a hassle to operate because you would need an interface, and build a wiring infrastructure back to the computer.

When things become more complex than just hooking up a HDMI cable from a player to a receiver, that is going to make alot of people balk at this. I can hardly say that I am old fashion, but I still like going to my entertainment library of physical discs, looking for what I want, and just putting it in the player. You have to get off of you butt and move around to do this, and that is exercise to me. Just pointing and clicking is just to lazy of an approach to me.

[Ajani]

The problem with music servers is price, which will keep it a niche market until someone is smart enough to create a quality product at a reasonable and less nosebleed price.

Squeezebox Touch -> $300 + $100 (for a USB Hard Drive) and you have a great standalone Music Server... Add the DAC of your choice to tailor sound quality to your liking...

[Mr Peabody]

Mama had a squeezebox. And, daddy never slept at night.

Guess he liked music too :)

[harley .guy07]

Ajani, I was thinking if some day down the road something was to happen to my CD player then what? I am not into servers, it's a lot of work getting the music on there and it sort of takes some fun out of it. Besides I still have my doubts as to sound quality. That may be remedied some by then though. I know there's good DAC's, it's just still debateable on how good the delivery system is. Not by me as I've not used servers but from what I read.

Poppa, I still have plenty of vinyl, just titles are on either or. I wished I had kept some of the vinyl I let go way back thinking CD was the way to go. I probably have close to 500 Lp's in my actual collection and close to 300 or so I still need to check out for quality of vinyl and music to see if I keep them or send them on the way.

I don't think CD's close to dead, I just think this music server thing has got people wanting to burn their cd's into their pc's and use a hard drive for the playback instead of taking the chance of messing up their disks. Also I am interested in getting a music server myself for several reasons and I have heard that they can sound as good or better than some of your best cd players but I also want to have a physical disk player because like you Mr. Peabody I do like physical media and would miss it if it were to disapear. I think just like turntables CD players will be around in some way in the future because there are some people devoted to CD that started this hobby with CD's just like people did with LP'S back in the 60's and 70's and refuse to change to some sort of computer based media. I am more open minded than that but I also still by cds and think for the most part they sound good but I do rip them to lossless format on my laptop cor future music server duties.

[E-Stat]

My problem with a computer based music server would be noise in my theater. Even if it could be located away from my listening space, it would still be a hassle to operate because you would need an interface, and build a wiring infrastructure back to the computer.
I have those same concerns, but find that they can be addressed. I have ripped most of my music to a traditional, noisy desktop but only use it only in the office. There's a guy over at AA, however, who uses a compact and quiet Mac mini who connects to the DAC through Firewire and uses his iPod as the controller. Sounds pretty handy to me!

Abe's system (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/7837.html)

Scroll all the way down to see the components and the overall view. His arrangement appears quite neat and well laid out.

rw

[Feanor]

Using an old computer for high quality music is quite frankly not very smart. Computers produce tremendous amounts of RFI that can produce distortion that sound like digital hash. That same distortion can also affect a pre-pro or a receiver as well.

There is a lot of work that must be done to make a computer match the quality of a dedicated music server, it is not just simply slapping a bunch of digital music files and calling it a music server.
Maybe so. I don't have a dedicated music server. But I can tell that my computer configuration, below, is easily better than my CDP.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/StereoDiagram9b.jpg

[poppachubby]

I have those same concerns, but find that they can be addressed. I have ripped most of my music to a traditional, noisy desktop but only use it only in the office. There's a guy over at AA, however, who uses a compact and quiet Mac mini who connects to the DAC through Firewire and uses his iPod as the controller. Sounds pretty handy to me!

Abe's system (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/7837.html)

Scroll all the way down to see the components and the overall view. His arrangement appears quite neat and well laid out.

rw

Quite neat indeed, Apple provide alot of great means...I was more interested in his power set up. The Manley's look super impressive. Hey E-Stat, see in the photo he has his Slee amps in, are those 2 batteries he's powering from? If so, how could I do that?

[Feanor]

Quite neat indeed, Apple provide alot of great means...I was more interested in his power set up. The Manley's look super impressive. Hey E-Stat, see in the photo he has his Slee amps in, are those 2 batteries he's powering from? If so, how could I do that?
If you have an amplifier question, ask Abe Collins. He's owned virtually every amplfier know to man or woman.

[poppachubby]

If you have an amplifier question, ask Abe Collins. He's owned virtually every amplfier know to man or woman.

Yes I'm sure but I don't know him. I'm not interested in asking about his amps, I know about his Manley amps. Manley is one of my faves. I am interested in what looks like a battery power supply he has rigged up for his Slee amps. Have a look!

[axton1]

I have those same concerns, but find that they can be addressed. I have ripped most of my music to a traditional, noisy desktop but only use it only in the office. There's a guy over at AA, however, who uses a compact and quiet Mac mini who connects to the DAC through Firewire and uses his iPod as the controller. Sounds pretty handy to me!

Abe's system (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/7837.html)

Scroll all the way down to see the components and the overall view. His arrangement appears quite neat and well laid out.

rw
I have solved a similar problem by purchasing the Morpheus unit from Sonneteer it connects up my laptop and cd player and allows me to stream it around the house.
I can use it wifi or lan or if you don't want the wires you can use their bard hi fi send receive unit. It also has internet radio sd card and usb along with analogue and digital inputs. you can even plug your Lp12 into it !
I like this system because it creates a bridge between old and new formats.