Speakers for Golden Tube SE-40

[poppachubby]

YO! I will becoming into a Golden Tube SE-40 shortly. It will be refurb'd and modded back to its glory. Since this amp has been around for a while, I was wondering if anyone here has seen or even better, heard, some nice speaker combos with it.

I will be using it strictly for vinyl, no CD or digital. I have a wet dream about some Genesis speakers but I'm not sure how they would pair with this tube amp. Anyhow, I know speakers are subjective but I though if someone has heard a proven system, they might share with me.

Thanks guys and gals.......

[02audionoob]

Klipsch RB-61. Discuss amongst yourselves.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4113652463_d6295ec1ec_m.jpg

[harley .guy07]

Well I haven't studied this amp very much but I figure that the 40 stands for 40 watts per channel. And I do know it is a zero feedback class a tube amp. Klipsch probably would not be a bad choice if you like their speakers. I havent been a huge fan of them. I do understand why audionoob would say they would be a good candidate because most of their speakers have sensitivity ratings in the high 90's or even some cases over 100. 40 watts is not a lot in todays world but it is enough for someone that does not crank the hell out of their systems to run up to a small floorstanding speaker of descent efficiency. I would look around the web and see what speakers people are running with tube amps because I have seen designers built speakers that are specially taylored to be drivin by tube amps. I would say some good smaller stand mount speakers could be a good candidate. I also know a lot of people seem to use 2 way or even full range speakers with tube amps with good results. I would say this would be a better question for Mr. peabody or someone that owns tube gear and has probably done more experimenting with tube amps and different speakers and might even know dirrect brands of speakers that work well with Golden Tube Se-40 amps.

[poppachubby]

That's what I'm hoping for harley, someone with some experience to point me in a direction.

[Jim Eck]

Here is another vote for Klipsch. tubes and horns go together, when you try horns with SS a lot of times it will come accross harsh and blaring and tiring, tubes on the other hand have a wonderful synergy when put together horns.

My opinion, you will need to find what sounds best to you.

Jim

[poppachubby]

My opinion, you will need to find what sounds best to you.

Jim

Thanks Jim, I will look at horns. As far as what sounds best to me, yes you're right. However I started this thread for a push in the right direction so feel free to make suggestions. I will audition when the time comes and decide if I like.

I am weak in the speaker dept, haven't heard alot of different brands or combinations. I won't buy until I'm satisfied I have what sounds good.

[poppachubby]

How about the Little Horn? Been reading about it...

http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/little-horn-speakers-1.jpg

[poppachubby]

Gotta head to work, here's a nice looking site...

http://www.thehornshoppe.com/index.html

[blackraven]

Paradigm Monitor series and PSB's Image series would be a good choice. Whats your budget?

[blackraven]

Last year I went over to the local Paradigm dealer with a friend and listened to all 3 of their speaker lines played on a Jolida 60watt tube integrated amp. It was an excellent match. I've always thought that Paradigms are a little on the bright side and the Jolida tamed them and it was a very good match.

I bet B&W's would be a good pairing with a tube amp as well.

[poppachubby]

Haven't set a budget yet BR. Right now I just want to get a feel for what might be a good match. Once I know what I'm up against I'll set a budget probably in the $800 range. However, I would like to spend less if possible. I know of a used pair of Paradigm right now, local. He's asking $200, I'm not sure of the model.

I must say, after some light research I am diggin the horn vibe. The more I read, the more it seems that horns are an innate match for a tube amp.

[E-Stat]

Anyhow, I know speakers are subjective but I though if someone has heard a proven system, they might share with me.
There is, however, one objective criteria you need to consider. Because of a tube amp's higher output impedance (sometimes referred to as lower damping factor), you need a speaker whose impedance doesn't vary like a roller coaster. The reason is that the resulting frequency response of the amp will be noticeably changed. "Tube friendly" speakers refer to this quality as much as power requirements. If you go over to Stereophile, you find the impedance curves of the speakers tested, Models like the Wilson and Thiels have fairly even ripples that don't vary terribly much in amplitude. Contrast that to the roller coaster profile of a small bookshelf like the Acoustic Energy AE1. Speakers like the latter require SS amps for the best results.

My 350 watt tube amps work great with the stats with their more gradual curve, but sound bass heavy with Advents. It's all about matching.

rw

[harley .guy07]

I have been around Paradigm speakers for many yeard and used to sell them back in the mid 90's and I have heard tube amps runnning them with good results. Ususally it was either their MiniMonitor or smaller floorstanders like the Monitor 5,7. the tube amps had a different effect on the Paradigm in the fact that blackraven was right it did tame some of the brightness of that damn titanium tweeter they used in the earlier days and warmed up the midrange but it was at a cost of bottom end from what I heard. We tried out several tube amps from McIntosh and others that customers brought in for demoing speakers. We also sold B&W and we ran them to but to me the tube amps did warm things up in the highs and smoothed out the midrange a slight bit but the low end suffered quite a bit with both brands of speakers so it makes me wonder if it would be a cool experiment to try to run a tube amp for the mids and tweets and biamp it with a solid state amp for the low end. now that might be something worth trying with one of these speakers we have talked about.

[blackraven]

I listened to the Paradigm S8's driven by that Jolida and it sounded sweet top to bottom. I was quite surprised.

[theebadone]

The 40 watts of tube power, is quite different than 40 watts of ss power. You have a great amp that would really shine with some highly sensitive speakers made by JBL or Altec. Have you ever thought about horns? Since you will mostly be playing vinyl on this system, a good match would be Altec model 14 with mantaray horns, or model 15s with the great 902 compression driver. On the JBL side i would think about something with a 130 woofer and 075 horn a la C-36 comes to mind. All speakers mentioned can still be had in 5-600.00 range. Or if you feel like tackling a very worthwhile project, you could check into the econo-waveguide speaker build over in the AK forum. And have some highly efficient speakers, that you can tell everyone you built.:D

[poppachubby]

thanks badone! I have joined the Yahoo GT group, I'll see what those good folks are using.

[poppachubby]

OK, Klipsch are on the list. I have been considering pair of Pro LaScala. Now I'm onto Frugal horns. For anyone who doesn't know, here's a link...BTW, check out the Metronome.

http://www.frugal-horn.com/

I am looking at these. They were made for a guy who was building a single ended tube but never saw it through. They were made by Dave Dlugos, a Frugal horn guru.

http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/091018/856r8/3953jb_20.jpeg

Any input would be great. Has anyone sat down and listened to a Frugal horn? I have reviewed a couple of plans. Although I'm quite sure I have the skill to build a pair, I don't have the time.

[audio amateur]

Dude, check these out:
http://www.tektondesign.com/loudspeakers.htm

They use full range Fostex drivers (which means no crossover) and seem very well priced. I don't know much at all about them though but I'm ultra curious as to how they sound.
Did I mention they were efficient? Oh, I'm online too

[poppachubby]

Ya, E-Stat PM'd that link to me. I was looking at these...

http://www.tektondesign.com/model65.htm

Those will compete with the RB-61's if it comes down to it. I'm at work so no MSN. Check out the Frugals which BTW use Fostex also.

[audio amateur]

For a hundred bucks more you could be looking at the Model 8.1. There's also an open baffle model at 550$ which employs two 4.5" drivers

[poppachubby]

Damn, you're right. Man I have a hard choice. The real problem is that I can't audition anything. Return policy may play a big role.

[audio amateur]

Yes.
What about planar speakers? Have you ever considered trying out the Magnepan MMGs for 550$? They have I believe a 90 day return policy. Check out their website http://magnepan.com/model_MMG

[poppachubby]

AA, I thought Mag's are not good for tube amps. I'm mistaken? Plus, the 40 in SE-40 is for 40 watts, not nearly enough juice for planar I would think.

[audio amateur]

I guess it all depends how loud you want to play them. For normal use, I should think it would work out, but then I am no expert. I believe they are 4 ohm so they'll be more demanding then your average speaker but it could work out.
Hopefully someone else will chip in

[blackraven]

Maggies go great with tube amps. Check out all the happy Maggie owners on the avahifi.com forum that own Van Alstine tube gear.

[MikeyBC]

I had a good friend who used an SE-40 successfully with Acoustat Spectra 22's and knew of another who used Martin Logan Aerius with no problems. The Acoustats midrange sounded amazing with it using a Linn turntable and the volume was loud enough for us. He never pushed it though but I never heard it sound strained either. I wouldn't recommended this combo for parties.

[poppachubby]

Maggies go great with tube amps. Check out all the happy Maggie owners on the avahifi.com forum that own Van Alstine tube gear.

Thanks BR, wasn't sure really...

[poppachubby]

Well, maybe once the amp is ready I will take it down to Target, my local shop. They have a pair of used Apogee's there. What do you guys make of the Frugal's?

[JoeE SP9]

PC:
I use 60 Watt mono blocks to drive my Spectra 22's. Sure they run out of steam when pushed hard enough but they play loud enough for me. I should mention that my system is bi-amplified with an 85Hz crossover between the panels and subs. SS on the subs of course.

[poppachubby]

PC:
I use 60 Watt mono blocks to drive my Spectra 22's. Sure they run out of steam when pushed hard enough but they play loud enough for me. I should mention that my system is bi-amplified with an 85Hz crossover between the panels and subs. SS on the subs of course.


Yikes Joe! Although I really don't require alot of volume, what you are describing is far more involved than what I could offer a pair of Mag's. IYO, do you think a GT SE-40 could do it?

[JoeE SP9]

Yikes Joe! Although I really don't require alot of volume, what you are describing is far more involved than what I could offer a pair of Mag's. IYO, do you think a GT SE-40 could do it?

I think you missed my point. A 40 WPC tube amp can "seem" to have more power. I believe it's because of the way tubes overload. Gently with slowly increasing levels of even order distortion. Even order is "euphonic" to the ears. When SS amps are driven to an overload state they clip almost immediately accompanied with odd order distortion products. Odd order is not euphonic.

I drove my first pair of panels (Maggy MG-1's) with 60 WPC of tube power I never felt that I needed more power, YMMV of course. Head banging volumes have never been my thing. If that's what you want the smaller Maggy's just ain't gonna' do it.

I would say a powered sub or two with any of the smaller Maggy's is almost a requirement. The "little" one's don't have much low bass and taking that task away from them makes them much better macrodynamically (Transition from low to loud). If it turns out you like Maggy's you'll probably like most any panel type speaker. There is a uniformity to the way they produce sound. The various types have their own character but they all have the "panel" sound.

Sorry for getting long winded. Yes, IMO the Golden SE-40 would sound marvelous driving MMG's or MG-1's. I've had nothing but tube driven panels since 1976. "Monkey" coffins haven't interested me since.

OTOH: Unless the Apogees are one of the hybrids (ribbon tweeter, cone bass) the SE-40 is probably not enough. Besides having a load that may go down to 2 Ohms the all ribbon Apogee's are quite inefficient.

[audio amateur]

I wouldn't risk your amp on the Apogees. Some of then have crazy low loads (1 ohm) that could destroy the amp.

[poppachubby]

Gotcha, thanks guys....

[harley .guy07]

Another idea I will toss in here is that Parts Express is selling a Tand Band 8" full range driver that I think would be ideal for a tube amp. I believe they are around 130 to 140 bucks a piece so they are not cheap but you don't need crossovers so the only thing you will need is good cabinets for them. they make two versions of this driver, one for smaller enclosures and one for open baffle type of setups so your otions are wide for this driver on what type and how big the enclosure will be and what type of sound you are looking for. I would take a look at them as they look like a good driver for a full range type driver.

[poppachubby]

Another idea I will toss in here is that Parts Express is selling a Tand Band 8" full range driver that I think would be ideal for a tube amp. I believe they are around 130 to 140 bucks a piece so they are not cheap but you don't need crossovers so the only thing you will need is good cabinets for them. they make two versions of this driver, one for smaller enclosures and one for open baffle type of setups so your otions are wide for this driver on what type and how big the enclosure will be and what type of sound you are looking for. I would take a look at them as they look like a good driver for a full range type driver.


Man, please, someone look at the Frugal horns!! Harley, look at the Frugals and give me your opinion.

[JoeE SP9]

PC, I shouldhave added, Apogee full ribbons sound fantastic! They have special amplifier requirments. Meet those requirements and they sing.

[poppachubby]

Ya cool Joe, I'll find out the model number of the Apogees, but I doubt I'll get them. I live in the same city as Feanor. I imagine once the amp is ready, I'll go to his place to run it through his Mag's.

Can you please give me an opinion on the Frugal horns? What do you know about them? I think they look amazing and I have a line on a great, practically new pair.

[JoeE SP9]

I cna't help you there PC. I don't like horn speakers and have no real knowledge or experience with them. Give the Apogees a listen. You might like "planar" sound.

[poppachubby]

I'm about to close the deal on a pair of mint Sound Dynamics SMT 1200. I mean mint! $100 CDN is what I'm attempting to work him down to although he's already at $125. Perhaps not the most ideal but super easy to drive and have a nice detailed sound. A good start at a decent price.

This is an actual pic...

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/image.php?image=1322179&is_user=0