Speaker Wires

[Mingus]

I am moving my speakers and need longer wire lengths. I am thinking of splicing the additional length needed. This will save me the trouble of rerouting the wires. Is it OK to use liquid solder at the connection. Will this degrade the sound.

[poppachubby]

I posted a thread about this in the cable section. Use either solder or a good splice connect. I would also recommend some heat shrink to finish it, this will protect it from shorts and corrosion.

[PDN]

Mingus, most experts in hi end audio will advise against splicing loudspeaker wire together due to possible increased impedance. Read the thread by poppachubby though. Good feedback. Could be argued but in all my years in this hobby, never heard it ever recommended.

[markw]

Mingus, most experts in hi end audio will advise against splicing loudspeaker wire together due to possible increased impedance. Read the thread by poppachubby though. Good feedback. Could be argued but in all my years in this hobby, never heard it ever recommended.And, in all my years in this hobby, I've never heard any detrimental effects from a PROPERLY done splice.

I'v e read the theory and find it interesting, but never experienced it in the real world

Oh, I agree with PC. I've never used "liquid solder" so I'd most likely recommend sticking to what he said.

[3db]

A big +1 ... a proper splice will not affect impedance and the shrink wrap mentioned by PC is a good measure of saftey thrown in. :)

[nightflier]

Mingus, most experts in hi end audio will advise against splicing loudspeaker wire together due to possible increased impedance. Read the thread by poppachubby though. Good feedback. Could be argued but in all my years in this hobby, never heard it ever recommended.

Isn't splicing exactly what you have to do with Magnepans that have captive wires? They assured me that there were no impedance issues with this.

[Feanor]

I am moving my speakers and need longer wire lengths. I am thinking of splicing the additional length needed. This will save me the trouble of rerouting the wires. Is it OK to use liquid solder at the connection. Will this degrade the sound.
What is 'liquid solder'?

[Luvin Da Blues]

What is 'liquid solder'?


Fancy one part epoxy. Crappy stuff that doesn't work worth a damn for electrical applications.

[hermanv]

I am moving my speakers and need longer wire lengths. I am thinking of splicing the additional length needed. This will save me the trouble of rerouting the wires. Is it OK to use liquid solder at the connection. Will this degrade the sound.If you can't borrow a solder iron use a crimp on barrel splice (use the right tool, do not flatten the joint with a pair or ordinary pliers) or use a twist on wire nut.

Do not use "liquid solder"!

[ren9328]

High quality silver solder, crimping or a twist on wire nut would all be preferable to using "liquid solder".

BTW, what gauge of wire are you using and how much length are you going to add?

[pixelthis]

High quality silver solder, crimping or a twist on wire nut would all be preferable to using "liquid solder".

BTW, what gauge of wire are you using and how much length are you going to add?

Two important questions that havent been asked yet.
However I AM IN THE "NO SOLDER crowd.
Is more trouble and expense, but definately worth it.
Go through the trouble now so you wont have to in the future.
Besides, its an exelent chance to upgrade your speaker wires.:1:

[Worf101]

As a Combat Engineer we had to not only be able to splice Det cord but electric systems as well. Our lives depended on correct splicing of electrical systems. The standard "Western Union" slice wrapped with electrical tape afterwards has never failed me. I'm still alive. Google it.

Worf

[Mingus]

Last week I was going to splice the wire as PC suggested but after thinking about it I decided to replace the speaker wires. Now the question is what speaker wires to use. I was at Home Depot over the weekend and saw racks of speaker wires. Are these adaquate or should I visit a store that specializes in audio/video equipment.

[hermanv]

Last week I was going to splice the wire as PC suggested but after thinking about it I decided to replace the speaker wires. Now the question is what speaker wires to use. I was at Home Depot over the weekend and saw racks of speaker wires. Are these adaquate or should I visit a store that specializes in audio/video equipment.Hoo boy, an invitation to cable wars!

I use Cardas wire, made my own cables. Cardas has a multi strand Litz like wire in a number of gauges and Cardas sells good lugs for a little less than the high priced spread.

I use Michael Percy as my supplier, honest prompt and an audiophile himself. Always happy to answer questions. He also handles wire from other suppliers, in my opinion they didn't perform as well as Cardas in head to head tests.

http://www.percyaudio.com/ accepts PayPal with reasonable shipping charges.

I've also used this Radio Shack for home theater, damn good for dirt cheap.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104178

[poppachubby]

Last week I was going to splice the wire as PC suggested but after thinking about it I decided to replace the speaker wires. Now the question is what speaker wires to use. I was at Home Depot over the weekend and saw racks of speaker wires. Are these adaquate or should I visit a store that specializes in audio/video equipment.

If you really want to make a move, read up on solid core. Might be a nice time to research and find something different for yourself. Solid core can be had for quite cheap, Home Depot could probably supply you.

[hermanv]

If you really want to make a move, read up on solid core. Might be a nice time to research and find something different for yourself. Solid core can be had for quite cheap, Home Depot could probably supply you.
Almost all solid core wire is an alloy containing steel to reduce stretch. Whether or not this is an issue is for each audiophile decide.

[Mingus]

Good suggestions. The thing with solid vs stranded wires, will I hear a difference.

[hermanv]

Good suggestions. The thing with solid vs stranded wires, will I hear a difference.
Depends on your system and your ears. Probably no difference on home theater receiver type systems. IMHO not recommended for high priced systems. The steel has magnetic domains, they have some hysteresis as they flip, this will add some broad band noise to tiny signals and might contribute to listener fatigue.

This is my opinion, not everyone agrees. The survival of so many cable companies tells me there is something there. Audible ? Your mileage may vary.

[blackraven]

Just buy some wire from bluejeanscable.com Its Belden wire and inexpensive and sounds good. It comes in 10, 12 and 14 gauge. Its cheaper if you buy the unterminated wire and terminate them yourself with their easy to use banana's.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

[frenchmon]

Last week I was going to splice the wire as PC suggested but after thinking about it I decided to replace the speaker wires. Now the question is what speaker wires to use. I was at Home Depot over the weekend and saw racks of speaker wires. Are these adaquate or should I visit a store that specializes in audio/video equipment.

Whats your budget? I would recommend that you read up on cable and speaker wire before you make a purchase. There is a wire for your budget, but you have to be happy with it. If you buy online, make sure you get the return policy before you buy just in case you dont like its sound. I did my research and decided to go with Analysis Plus interconnects and speaker wire...and I am happy I did.

http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_spkrcable.html



frenchmon

[hermanv]

While bananas are inexpensive and convenient, the gold plating tends to come off after a few insertions.

[poppachubby]

There's always a naysayer...Mingus, here's some info on solid core. BTW, it's copper NOT steel. Malcolm Omar Hawksford did the only comprehensive, scientific study on IC's in England. He published his findings in a paper called the Essex Echo.

Stereophile has the article avaialble on their site but just in case they've done any editing, here's the link to Essex University in the UK.

http://www.essex.ac.uk/ese/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/G3%20HFN%20Essex_Echo_(cables_1985).pdf

Some of it is a little heady, however I think his conclusions are pretty direct. He finds that versus stranded, copper solid core is the best carrier of an audio signal.

Of course, it all comes down to your ears. I would agree with Herman on the H/T matter, probably not worth it but with a 2-channel system, for sure.

The thing that manufacturers don't want you to know, is that solid core is at the very least, equal in quality to stranded. Copper solid core can be had for very cheap from most hardware stores. Mr. Hawksford suggests that a high gauge is best. Even better for the consumer!

Anyhow Mingus, I don't want to sway you, I still use stranded and love the results. I also use solid core and love that too.

[hermanv]

There's always a naysayer...Mingus, here's some info on solid core. BTW, it's copper NOT steel. Malcolm Omar Hawksford did the only comprehensive, scientific study on IC's in England. He published his findings in a paper called the Essex Echo.I didn't say it was steel wire I said there was often a steel alloy in coper wire, the amount is tiny probably under 0.05%. Only you can decide if your source is free of alloys and whether or not any of this is audible. I have been an advocate that wires are important and for speakers low resistance is very important. I do agree that dollar for dollar solid wire is the lowest cost lowered resistance wire.

There is a reason specialty wire(cable) companies advertise 4 or 5 nines copper (99.99% or 99.999%) and charge extra for it. Electrical circuits can be explained in a fairly simple way, but a true specialist will tell you the devil is in the details.

Most systems and many listeners can not discern these things and the specialty wires certainly are not cheap, don't invest your hard earned money in them if you borrow some high priced cables and hear nothing different.

[poppachubby]

Most systems and many listeners can not discern these things and the specialty wires certainly are not cheap, don't invest your hard earned money in them if you borrow some high priced cables and hear nothing different.

Agreed. I think if the cables can be obtained for a reasonable price, one that competes with typical stranded models, why not?!? Whether or not the system can reveal the improvement is unimportant.

The system will use the IC's to the greatest of it's ability. However, should an upgrade occur, the IC's will not only be ready, they will be greedily salivating at the sight of improved output.

What I DON"T agree with, is the spending of a heap of cash for this non-result. In this case, spend to the capability of the output.

Mingus, I was at Home Depot myself today. For $2.00/Metre, they had 22 gauge solid core, each strand was in a jacket and then the pair were in a nice tough casing. In Imperial this would work out to roughly $0.61/foot. Its purpose was probably for lighting, but I'm not sure. Essentially these are ready to go, you could add termination but I personally wouldn't.

I bought 60 feet of 12 gauge today. No-name stranded stuff. Hooked up from an ad in the local newspaper. He was asking $25 CDN but I talked him down to $20. I'm going to use it for my H/T system which now has unterminated 16 gauge. This'll be the last upgrade to the H/T. He had them in 4 strands of 15 feet.

[poppachubby]

OK Mingus, I made these solid core. Cheap and easy. Worth the time to try and see what you think. If you like them, you've hit easy street.

[poppachubby]

Close up, I used poly-urethane hose for the jacket. I found an inside diameter so close that I had to use penetrating oil to slip them in.

[Geoffcin]

Close up, I used poly-urethane hose for the jacket. I found an inside diameter so close that I had to use penetrating oil to slip them in.
Neat, I've never heard solid core wires used in an audio system.

[blackraven]

Neat, I've never heard solid core wires used in an audio system.


http://www.anticables.com/technical.html

[poppachubby]

http://www.anticables.com/technical.html

Oh fantastic link. I had just bought some heat shrink big enough to fit both positive and negative into one lead. I am now re-thinking it.


Neat, I've never heard solid core wires used in an audio system.

Try it out Geoffcin. Like I've said it can be done for next to nothing. According to BR's link, no shielding or jackets are required, short of the wrap that you buy it in. I find it's a brighter and bigger sound. Quite audible, that's for sure...John Michael introduced me to solid core however the leg work and research was my own. Well worth it and thanks again JM if you're reading this.

[poppachubby]

OK, I am getting the feeling that the OP has maybe lost interest. Mingus, you still around man? Have you been looking at anything? Any thoughts on what you may do?

Hey Raven, I am going with full shielding and jacket. After a week I'll put a "naked" set in and try to sort out any differences. Here they are, bananas as required by the speakers, and bare on the amp end.

[blackraven]

You should be able to run the bare wire into the speaker depending upon the binding post's.

[frenchmon]

OK, I am getting the feeling that the OP has maybe lost interest. Mingus, you still around man? Have you been looking at anything? Any thoughts on what you may do?

Hey Raven, I am going with full shielding and jacket. After a week I'll put a "naked" set in and try to sort out any differences. Here they are, bananas as required by the speakers, and bare on the amp end.


Dog Boy!!! You look like you may be ready to sell cable on line! Good job!

pappaC solid core clear cables.

frenchmon

[poppachubby]

Thanks Frenchy! It's nothing really. Quite easy and I suggest it for you to try out. I've got them in my main system right now and they sound great.

I don't want to over do it, so I'll say that they're certainly no worse than my beloved Ultralinks.

[hermanv]

Oh fantastic link. I had just bought some heat shrink big enough to fit both positive and negative into one lead. I am now re-thinking it.
<cut>
If you do a little math it will show you that the reduction in inductance from running two wires in a common sleeve easily outweighs the increase in capacitance.

Adding inductance is the equivalent of making the wire gauge smaller.

[Mingus]

Hey I am back, I had a problem with my computer. I may decide to change the other speaker wires also - some were spliced with solder and wrap in electrical tape. I am going to inspect the condition of the solder splice to see if the cable needs to be replaced. The solid wire sounds good. Is solid wire flexible enough to bent around corners. I'll be shopping for cable in the next few days and will be stopping at Home Depot.

Hey PC, those are nice photos.

[poppachubby]

If you do a little math it will show you that the reduction in inductance from running two wires in a common sleeve easily outweighs the increase in capacitance.

Adding inductance is the equivalent of making the wire gauge smaller.

I was refering to a jacket for both shielded cables, is this what your math equation is for? Or are you talking about two bare cables in one sleeve?

[poppachubby]

Hey I am back, I had a problem with my computer. I may decide to change the other speaker wires also - some were spliced with solder and wrap in electrical tape. I am going to inspect the condition of the solder splice to see if the cable needs to be replaced. The solid wire sounds good. Is solid wire flexible enough to bent around corners. I'll be shopping for cable in the next few days and will be stopping at Home Depot.

Hey PC, those are nice photos.

Not only is it flexible enough, much like coaxial, it stays in place once its shaped.

[frenchmon]

Thanks Frenchy! It's nothing really. Quite easy and I suggest it for you to try out. I've got them in my main system right now and they sound great.

I don't want to over do it, so I'll say that they're certainly no worse than my beloved Ultralinks.


Ah come on now....how do they sound? Hows the detail compared to the Ultralinks? Do they have better mids, or highs? Surely they don't sound the same. You would expect a cable company's product to have a distinctive house sound and character. Whats the bottom end like? Give us report on the two cables. Who knows I might ask you to build me some for my home-theater when I start upgrading:) .

frenchmon

[hermanv]

I was refering to a jacket for both shielded cables, is this what your math equation is for? Or are you talking about two bare cables in one sleeve?The kind of insulation used and its thickness can be important for interconnects. For speaker cables, thinner, thicker, polyurethane or Teflon has a small effect because the capacitive reactance has a very high impedance and therefore the effects are very small compared to an 8 Ohm load.

Whereas twisting wires can be important for interconnects because the signals are small and the impedance is high, it is far less important for an 8 Ohm load.

I guess I don;t understand your question about two bare wires in sleeve, this just lowers the effective wire gauge.

[poppachubby]

Ah come on now....how do they sound? Hows the detail compared to the Ultralinks? Do they have better mids, or highs? Surely they don't sound the same. You would expect a cable company's product to have a distinctive house sound and character. Whats the bottom end like? Give us report on the two cables. Who knows I might ask you to build me some for my home-theater when I start upgrading:) .

frenchmon

OK frenchy, I was trying to be humble, but for the simplicity of these, they are impressive. I have spun only a few albums, but I tried to grab some challenging stuff. I have the cables hooked up to my Dynaco A25's.

George Benson- Good King Bad, the warmth of the highs and high mids is almost shocking. Benson's guitar can do no wrong, so I turned it up, and then turned it up some more. With the amp cranked well above moderate, there wasn't a shrill note to be heard. All the while the low end is tight and punchy. Super clear and detailed across the whole recording.

Stevie Wonder- Innervisions, I wanted to hear the harp solos from "Too High" after the Benson. I have found this track to be a good test of high mids. When Stevie blows, it's not hard for it to sound harsh. Again, everything was aces. Perfect tone.

From this I threw on Herbie Hancock's Man-Child. I stopped the critical listening but everything sounded really nice. I would say the main difference from the Ultralinks would be the bass range. The UL's seem to have a deeper bass sound whereas these solid core are alot more punchy and refined in the bass dept. I have the advantage of a pair of UL's hooked into my comp system. I can send the signal from my main system to the comp, so i switched speakers on a couple of tracks off of Innervisions.

Like i said, well worth the effort. I'm quite certain I'll make another set. I think I'll make the next with no jacket, like BR's link. Frenchy, you wouldn't need me to make these for you, although I would if you wanted me to. Way too easy to do.

Solid core gets a headbang!!

[Poultrygeist]

Sell for about $7.00 for 40 ft. Don't care much for these as interconnects but they make great speaker wires. You can read reviews of these homebrew cords all over the net.

[frenchmon]

OK frenchy, I was trying to be humble, but for the simplicity of these, they are impressive. I have spun only a few albums, but I tried to grab some challenging stuff. I have the cables hooked up to my Dynaco A25's.

George Benson- Good King Bad, the warmth of the highs and high mids is almost shocking. Benson's guitar can do no wrong, so I turned it up, and then turned it up some more. With the amp cranked well above moderate, there wasn't a shrill note to be heard. All the while the low end is tight and punchy. Super clear and detailed across the whole recording.

Stevie Wonder- Innervisions, I wanted to hear the harp solos from "Too High" after the Benson. I have found this track to be a good test of high mids. When Stevie blows, it's not hard for it to sound harsh. Again, everything was aces. Perfect tone.

From this I threw on Herbie Hancock's Man-Child. I stopped the critical listening but everything sounded really nice. I would say the main difference from the Ultralinks would be the bass range. The UL's seem to have a deeper bass sound whereas these solid core are alot more punchy and refined in the bass dept. I have the advantage of a pair of UL's hooked into my comp system. I can send the signal from my main system to the comp, so i switched speakers on a couple of tracks off of Innervisions.

Like i said, well worth the effort. I'm quite certain I'll make another set. I think I'll make the next with no jacket, like BR's link. Frenchy, you wouldn't need me to make these for you, although I would if you wanted me to. Way too easy to do.

Solid core gets a headbang!!


Thanks pappaC...you my buddy. I thank you for the critical listen report...now sit back and be moved by the sound, and continue your headbang.

frenchmon

[MartaDianne]

I just got a new Onkyo home theater system and I've yet to set it up. Before I do, should I go buy some special speaker wires? Do they really make a difference? I have always used Monster Cables for connecting components, so I'll probably stick with those for the rest.

[poppachubby]

I just got a new Onkyo home theater system and I've yet to set it up. Before I do, should I go buy some special speaker wires? Do they really make a difference? I have always used Monster Cables for connecting components, so I'll probably stick with those for the rest.

Don't be fooled by this thread, you don't have to get anything particularily "special". I would advise to buy no higher than 14 gauge wire. Your speakers and amp will probably have difficulty accepting 10 or 12 gauge wire due to its large size. If you go that low, you will need to buy some termination, speaker pins would be best.

The higher the number, the thinner the wire. Thicker wire will help with bass response and in general is a better conductor for the signal.

That;s all really. Doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg either, just have a look around before your purchase.

[hermanv]

I just got a new Onkyo home theater system and I've yet to set it up. Before I do, should I go buy some special speaker wires? Do they really make a difference? I have always used Monster Cables for connecting components, so I'll probably stick with those for the rest.
This is a repeat, but this wire sounds good on home theater systems running $10,000.00. It is cheap and being flat goes under carpets well.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104178

Other Radio Shack products don't do as well IMHO.

[blackraven]

I just got a new Onkyo home theater system and I've yet to set it up. Before I do, should I go buy some special speaker wires? Do they really make a difference? I have always used Monster Cables for connecting components, so I'll probably stick with those for the rest.

Check out this site for cables www.bluejeanscable.com

I have some $200pr monster m1000i IC's and the $30 bluejean cables sound better and they blow my m950i's away.

Dont waste your money on overpriced monster crap!

[hermanv]

Check out this site for cables www.bluejeanscable.com

I have some $200pr monster m1000i IC's and the $30 bluejean cables sound better and they blow my m950i's away.

Dont waste your money on overpriced monster crap!My first ever expensive cables were Monster m1000 IC's, I agree garbage!

[Mingus]

I didn't get a chance to try the different type of speaker wires. My wife got annoyed with loose wires around the living room so I just went to the hardware store and purchased a roll of 14 qauge speaker wire and connect everything back again. I am going to try different wires in the basement system.

[JoeE SP9]

PC, the system you're putting together around that SE-40 may make you feel differently about speaker cables.

[poppachubby]

PC, the system you're putting together around that SE-40 may make you feel differently about speaker cables.

OK, you're going to make me ask. How so?