Budget preamp shopping!

[Freewillisdead112]

Hi, everyone!

I am thinking about buying a preamp for the tamp20 i am ordering!

Anyone know of any good pre's out there from the past that still look nice, black/silver, and sell for a simple price. I would like one that has a replaceable cable if possible.

Thanks guys!

[JoeE SP9]

Most older (vintage) preamps do not have a detachable power cord.

What is your budget?

Do you want/need tone controls?
If you do, then something like an Adcom GFP-555 is an ideal choice. It also fits your cosmetic requirements.

Most of the preamps I would recommend have no tone controls.

The ones that come to mind are

Audio Research
Conrad Johnson
Krell
Audible Illusions

All of the above are considered to be high end preamps. They can be had for less than a grand.

Check Audiogon for used preamps. If you are on a restricted budget the already mentioned Adcom is probably your best bet.

[02audionoob]

Hi, everyone!

I am thinking about buying a preamp for the tamp20 i am ordering!

Anyone know of any good pre's out there from the past that still look nice, black/silver, and sell for a simple price. I would like one that has a replaceable cable if possible.

Thanks guys!

I'm a fan of the Adcom GFP-555 and would also add the Adcom SLC-505 and Creek OBH-12.

http://www.uhfmag.com/Issue62/OBH12.jpg

[Freewillisdead112]

Id like to stay around $500. Tone would be cool, not needed though. It doesnt need to be vintage, just used would be better cost and performance wise. I have heard great things about adcom.

To sum things up....Don't care about phono, tone is a yes/no, black would be perfered, Something thats not quite entry level but not high end, as $500 won't really get me to far high end wise.

Would It be cheaper to look into integrated amp's with preouts?

I have heard and read great things about the t-amp I am ordering and I just dont think I can live with a volume knob and one input, so I figure add a decent preamp with good interconnects and it should work out great!

Thanks!

[Freewillisdead112]

If I could afford a krell I would jump in a heart beat!

[Freewillisdead112]

I'm a fan of the Adcom GFP-555 and would also add the Adcom SLC-505 and Creek OBH-12.

http://www.uhfmag.com/Issue62/OBH12.jpg

The 555 has a built-in power cord. I was checking them out on ebay, ones sitting for $75 bucks!

How does a passive work, I have never messed with one. The 505 is sitting at $45 with no bids right now.

That creed seems a little steep for $600 bucks. Is it worth it?

[JoeE SP9]

I have seen the Audible Illusions for around $600. I've also seen Krell KRS preamps for about $800. Both of those were on Audiogon. Bear in mind, none of these have any tone controls except the Adcom.

Although the Creek is a preamp, it's rather limited in controls. IE: No balance control. No tape monitor. And, last but not least, no phono stage. Of course if you have no TT that's not important.

The Audible Illusions, Krell, Conrad Johnson and Audio Research all sound significantly better than the Adcom or Creek. If I were on a budget and wanted SS, I'd go for the Audible Illusions. Otherwise it would be Krell for SS. Choosing between Audio Research and Conrad Johnson (both tubed) is largely a matter of personal taste.

[JoeE SP9]

The 555 has a built-in power cord. I was checking them out on ebay, ones sitting for $75 bucks!

How does a passive work, I have never messed with one. The 505 is sitting at $45 with no bids right now.

That creed seems a little steep for $600 bucks. Is it worth it?

Of the ones I've mentioned the Krell and Audible Illusions have an IEC connector to allow power cord changes. The Audible and Krell also have separate (a very good thing) power supplies.

A passive is nothing more than a switchbox with a volume and (maybe) a balance control. It may not have an AC connector unless it has some kind of output buffers (most don't).

For $600 I'd buy an Audible Illusions over the Creek any day the Sun comes up in the East.

[02audionoob]

The 555 has a built-in power cord. I was checking them out on ebay, ones sitting for $75 bucks!

How does a passive work, I have never messed with one. The 505 is sitting at $45 with no bids right now.

That creed seems a little steep for $600 bucks. Is it worth it?

I saw the Creek for $225 on Audiogon before I mentioned it. There's a purity advantage with the passive preamps, as long as they have a quality volume pot. I have owned a GFP-555, a GFP-565 and an SLC-505. My favorite was the GFP-565 by a considerable margin, but the cost difference above the GFP-555 is usually quite a bit. If you can afford options like Audio Research and Conrad-Johnson, I'd say the Adcom/Creek discussion is a moot point, though.

[Freewillisdead112]

I have seen the Audible Illusions for around $600. I've also seen Krell KRS preamps for about $800. Both of those were on Audiogon. Bear in mind, none of these have any tone controls except the Adcom.

Although the Creek is a preamp, it's rather limited in controls. IE: No balance control. No tape monitor. And, last but not least, no phono stage. Of course if you have no TT that's not important.

The Audible Illusions, Krell, Conrad Johnson and Audio Research all sound significantly better than the Adcom or Creek. If I were on a budget and wanted SS, I'd go for the Audible Illusions. Otherwise it would be Krell for SS. Choosing between Audio Research and Conrad Johnson (both tubed) is largely a matter of personal taste.

Huh, cool. Where would I find this Audible Illusions at? I did a google search with no luck. Is there older krells that can be had a little cheaper?

[JoeE SP9]

For the $500 the OP mentioned a GFP-565 is a very good option. It's definitely the best preamp Adcom ever made. However I've seen the Audible Illusions for the same price. I think it's a little bit better.

Plus it has:
Replaceable power cord
Separate power supply

Freewillisdead112:
The gear I've described is available on Audiogon. The brands and models come under the high end category. Audiogon specializes in high and and near high end gear. The classifieds are an audio wish book.
www.audiogon.com (http://www.audiogon.com)

[Freewillisdead112]

Huh, Is the Audible Illusions a tube? Cuz thats all they have on the gon list. I'll check out the adcom and see what i find!

[JoeE SP9]

Yes it is tubed. So are the Conrad Johnson and Audio Research. My SP-9 is a hybrid with a tubed input and phono stage and FET output. The CJ is tubes from start to finish. Of the preamps I've mentioned the CJ has more of a signature tube sound than the others. CJ gear has sometimes been called "Golden" sounding. I suppose that goes along with the front panel color.

The preamps I've mentioned all have a couple of things in common.
1. No tone controls.
2. No remote.
3. Superior sound.

They are the kind of gear that when paired with appropriate stuff need no tone controls or equalizer.

[Freewillisdead112]

Anyone had any good luck with the emotiva preamp? I have read some nice things about it price wise.

[Freewillisdead112]

Yes it is tubed. So are the Conrad Johnson and Audio Research. My SP-9 is a hybrid with a tubed input and phono stage and FET output. The CJ is tubes from start to finish. Of the preamps I've mentioned the CJ has more of a signature tube sound than the others. CJ gear has sometimes been called "Golden" sounding. I suppose that goes along with the front panel color.

The preamps I've mentioned all have a couple of things in common.
1. No tone controls.
2. No remote.
3. Superior sound.

They are the kind of gear that when paired with appropriate stuff need no tone controls or equalizer.

I have been wanting to try tube, and alot of people have had great results with tubes and t-amps. Would tubes help tone down bright music, as I am a glorified metal head and the music is just so bright. I would figure without tone control things would be more mellow aye? But also more pure!

Now what the heck am I gunna do about CDP? If i am spending 700-800 for amp and pre whats a realistic spending on a cdp? Would it be smart to pick up the oppo dvd and a cheap dac or just a better cd player? I have-ith the slightest clue!

[JoeE SP9]

Mr. Peabody and frenchmon both have very good things to say about the Emotive ERCD-1 CDP. Their findings are good enough to seriously consider one
In most cases tubes will ameliorate that high frequency glare. However, in many cases it's also exacerbated by inexpensive CDP's in the first place. In other words, a good CDP may get rid of the HF glare.
A good tube preamp can still make the overall sound better even if you have a CDP that doesn't enhance glare.

[Freewillisdead112]

I was going to actually look into the emo. I read alot of great things, and the price and look is just right! If I was to get that I would love to get the pre if it was any good just for the match. But if its not a good ol item I will take a look at that Audible and adcom.

I was going to put some money into the WDHD media player ($200) to play my mp3 and flac files and maybe a few vids. I like that over the oppo as it plays flac files. I still will want to add a better dvd player but nothing over the top one day, as my $60 sony is not up really to par for anything.

I am building full range speakers for this setup so I am guessing the tube and t-amp mix would sound quite sweet. As the t-amp is a married match and tube + full ranges = sweet!

[Mr Peabody]

The ERC-1 is a very good CD player. If the Emo preamp has the same price to performance ratio you should try it, $399.00. They will give you a 30 day return window and it has very cool features including a built in subwoofer crossover with both high/low cutoff and a phono stage. The ERC-1 is fast and spreads the sound stage out which would help with Metal. Or, any music but I think it does good for Rock. The highs are there but shouldn't be a problem with equally as good gear. The ERC-1 performs way better than it's price would suggest, that's why I think the USP-1 might be a good option. You could get both and be slightly over $800.00 with shipping.

If you want to replace your DVD just get a Blu-ray player. Prices have dropped, for instance, you can buy a Panasonic dmp-80 for under $160.00. This is a premium player for the price of entry level.

[blackraven]

I would take a look at some used Van Alstine preamps that come with a 1yr warranty and are factory inspected.

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/used/used.htm

[Freewillisdead112]

interesting! I def like the idea of having the matching pre and cdp. Mr Peabody, do you use a DAC with your cdp?

It would be amazing to make this whole system under $2000, but within a long span of time as thats a hunk of change for me! First comes the t-amp then on goes the show! The open baffle FR speakers I am building are going to cost way under $300! There going to be sweet when I am done. I did buy those Insignia bookshelfs to house the driver while I build the cabs. They sure don't sound bad for $60!

Going to take me about 6 months to build the cabs with the amount of spare time i have so they came warm up in the cabs in the mean time!

[Freewillisdead112]

I have not bought a HDTV yet so I don't think a Bluray is in order. Do they even have composite outs anymore?

[Mr Peabody]

Yes, the Blu-ray should work with your old TV until you can get HD. They typically offer an array of video outputs and you can set the resolution lower. I haven't looked at the dmp-80 so not sure exactly what's on the back.

I do not use a DAC with the ERC-1, it sounds great as is. I think Atom was going to put all the ERC info into a blog, you might try looking on the home page or look for threads in the "digital domain" containing words like ERC, Peabody, or Frenchmon. I also, posted a review on www.emotiva.com I used the name krellion. I believe the title is "ERC-1 scrutinized" They put their reviews under the "forums" link. Emo is good stuff though. The player has detachable cord, an aluminum remote and it's built rock solid.

I was going to comment on the CJ gear. My current gear is the only amps I've heard from CJ, although the system has excellent midrange it does not have the stereotypical rolled off highs or bloated bass some associate with the "glowing" tube sound. In fact, I was listen to some Rush LP's at high volume this afternoon and was pretty proud of the way my system presented Getty's bass lines. They were presented detailed and clear. I can't speak for the older preamps and there are some good buys usually on Audiogon, like
PV10's for under $500.00.

[Freewillisdead112]

I'll def check that out!

I have always been interested with tube, but the only tube that was avail was mcintosh, and i don't quite have the pocket book for that! Craigslist around my town is always fisher 15's and sony HTIB systems. Hardly anything worth picking up!

There is a pair of carver electrostats for $300 that look sweet!

[JoeE SP9]

First off, Carver's are not electrostatics. They are open baffle woofers with a ribbon tweeter. They sound very good but need enormous amounts of power, 250WPC minimum.

Mr Peabody has reinforced my suggestion about CJ or ARC etc. and looking on Audiogon. you may have to be patient but you will be able to get what you want.

Also, the longer you wait for what you want the more money you can save toward whatever it is.

[JoeE SP9]

I have not bought a HDTV yet so I don't think a Bluray is in order. Do they even have composite outs anymore?

You and your aspirations regarding your system and gear in general have changed quite a bit. From TRS Mach 1's to your own design FR open baffle speakers is quite a change. It seems that we have helped create a monster. I know I'm happy about that. We need all the new blood we can attract to this, obsession. Just don't forget to pass the infection along whenever you get the opportunity. We all have to be typhoid Mary as far as good stereo equipment is concerned.

Keep the spark going!!!!

Yes the Oppo BD player has composite, S-Video and I think component video outputs. Check the Oppo site to make sure.

[harley .guy07]

Yes I agree that Freewill has seemed to grow into wanting higher end stuff and realizing that there is a difference in low priced best buy gear and stuff that is worth having. I know I have heard a lot of brands of equipment I do not have as high end of a system as I have worked with in the past when I worked in the audio field but I do aspire to get some better gear and bring my system up to the worth of my knowledge in this hobby. As far as the gear mentioned hear I pretty much agree with everyone and would say that checking audiogon a couple of times a week would be a good thing since their turnover is real high and also that Emotiva might as well be something to look at since you want to go higher end but at the best possible price per performance units and they seem to be kicking some real ass with their stuff for the money. And you say you are building your own speakers I would not mind hearing about your plans for them and what type and brand of drivers you are going to use seeing that DIY is one of my things as well. And as well if we knew more about what speakers you were runnning we might have an even better ability to send you in the right preamp/amp direction.

[Freewillisdead112]

You and your aspirations regarding your system and gear in general have changed quite a bit. From TRS Mach 1's to your own design FR open baffle speakers is quite a change. It seems that we have helped create a monster. I know I'm happy about that. We need all the new blood we can attract to this, obsession. Just don't forget to pass the infection along whenever you get the opportunity. We all have to be typhoid Mary as far as good stereo equipment is concerned.

Keep the spark going!!!!

Yes the Oppo BD player has composite, S-Video and I think component video outputs. Check the Oppo site to make sure.

Haha, yeah JoeE I got the bug bad! The machs were cool for playing around with, but I went and got a listen to alot of interesting speakers and to make a long story short, my $60 dollar Insignia bookshelfs are more accurate then the mach's and alot of company made speakers double there price. I have been getting really big into soft, musical music, and my party rockers are not cutting it! I figure I beef up the Insignia cab's and put the fullranges in there to break in while I save, build and finish my system. Money's more available and time is less. So this should be fun!

I will for sure be posting a thread while I build my big red and black gloss monsters!

[Freewillisdead112]

Yes I agree that Freewill has seemed to grow into wanting higher end stuff and realizing that there is a difference in low priced best buy gear and stuff that is worth having. I know I have heard a lot of brands of equipment I do not have as high end of a system as I have worked with in the past when I worked in the audio field but I do aspire to get some better gear and bring my system up to the worth of my knowledge in this hobby. As far as the gear mentioned hear I pretty much agree with everyone and would say that checking audiogon a couple of times a week would be a good thing since their turnover is real high and also that Emotiva might as well be something to look at since you want to go higher end but at the best possible price per performance units and they seem to be kicking some real ass with their stuff for the money. And you say you are building your own speakers I would not mind hearing about your plans for them and what type and brand of drivers you are going to use seeing that DIY is one of my things as well. And as well if we knew more about what speakers you were runnning we might have an even better ability to send you in the right preamp/amp direction.

Well good to know your so interested! I have a plan sorta.

The cabs will be around 30" tall by 18" wide. I will just be starting with a front baffle and a bottom base. As I mess with them more and the sound aspect I might add wings. I will be sanding curves around the morners and painting them gloss black then taping off a design and painting them gloss red. My furniture will look fantastic with them. =]

I have decided on the Audio Nirvana Super 6.5 for the main woofer, It does'nt have great Q for open baffle but it is not to low to work. I will be adding some sort of high Q 8" woofer at the bottom to add some low end ummph!

The AN woofers I believe are 93-95db I think, So the t-amp20 will power them great and will be alot cheaper them a decent tube amp. I chose the Insignia bookshelfs as they were cheaper to buy then build my own. Plus I will have some half decent new car speakers! =] I will be building the OB's with my friend over a long span of time so I wanted to have the woofers broke In by the time the cabs came home!

[Freewillisdead112]

I found a hafler dh100 for $50, Is that any good?

[Mr Peabody]

For $50.00 it either has something wrong with it or they don't know what they have. Hafler has a definite following and usually prized. If it works good you better jump on it.

[Freewillisdead112]

I'ma call the guy and see if I can go test it out. There is also a marantz 4430 with a crap load of stuff for $100. I am guessing thats a deal of a lifetime if it works? I know its not a pre but I bet it's nice low watts would power the FR's quite well? Maybe has preouts?

[harley .guy07]

Mr. Peabody is right about the hafler. They were really followed in their day and still have value to them. But finding one that is in great shape and does not need work is hard to do since most of them are older. So even if the amp works I would try to have it checked out to make sure that the Caps and transformer are in good shape and the there is not any circuits that need work. Plus I have heard of a lot of people modifying them with very good results.
Where are you getting the Audio Nirvana speakers from. I have yet to here much about them in the DIY sites I have been to I would not mind knowing where you are looking at this stuff at so I might see what they have as well.

[harley .guy07]

all right I searched some more and found the Audio Nirvana drivers that you are talking about and they don't look bad. They only thing I see that bothers me is the lack of venting in the pole piece on the back of the magnet. This might not hinder their sound but it will hinder their ability to cool the voice coils at higher output levels. But with full range drivers like this its about point source sound and balance and not dynamics so it probably won't be a big issue as long as you arent trying to crank the roof off.

[Freewillisdead112]

Mr. Peabody is right about the hafler. They were really followed in their day and still have value to them. But finding one that is in great shape and does not need work is hard to do since most of them are older. So even if the amp works I would try to have it checked out to make sure that the Caps and transformer are in good shape and the there is not any circuits that need work. Plus I have heard of a lot of people modifying them with very good results.
Where are you getting the Audio Nirvana speakers from. I have yet to here much about them in the DIY sites I have been to I would not mind knowing where you are looking at this stuff at so I might see what they have as well.

www.commonsenseaudio.com

The woofers are great looking and have a decent following. For $130 for some decent to good woofers with phase plugs seems to jump out at me as deal deal deal. I am sure I will upgrade later on to better woofers if the fullrange bug bites me hard enough. Who knows, I might just have to buy a super tweeter and thats it and be full out happy. Give me detail!

That marantz looks like its mint, and i think he would break it up from the pack for prob 50 bucks.

I'll try and beat the hafler guy down and play with it and see if it works!

[Freewillisdead112]

We shall see what happends! I am going to grab some 3" FR woofers online for $10 and shove them into a mini version of my other plan and power them off my computer speakers amp. At 95 db, and at 5w max power, a young child with a waiting pool could power them! Figure I will have a little better for sound for less then $30 that will prob have better detail then most $100 computer speakers.

[harley .guy07]

For that price the Hafler sounds like a great deal if it is in good shape. At that price you could also look at upgrades to it. I am pretty sure the main upgrades to the Hafler amps are power supply and stiffining capacitor oriented, they will give you much more overall power and dynamic capability. Plus there might be more upgrades available that would make the sound quality better on it as well. But if there are main component damage then I would leave it alone and look else where for an amp. Most people into the full range speaker thing seem to be into tube amps from what I've seen so that might be something to think about and it makes since seeing that lower wattage quality power is usually the target for that kind of speaker design. Or possibly single ended class A could be a good option as well but they are hard to come by cheap. But it does sound like you have seen what people have been talking about in that the big Machs were not bad in their day but they are not a speaker ment for critical listening but more for power and dynamics and you would most likely be better with a different design if sound quality is more important to you than crankin it. I know I went through that learning curve many years ago and thats when things started to really came together for me as a knowledgeable audio enthusiast.

[Freewillisdead112]

the hafler is a pre-amp. I am still getting the hlly t-amp 2020. I am just in dilema trying to find something decent to add more inputs and maybe a sonic better. I have read days apon days of the pluses to having a t-amp and full range speakers. kinda like tube meets SS I guess.

[Freewillisdead112]

It's kind of sad that I am enjoying these Insignas so much. My poor little Pionner don't know what to do anymore. I was using one of the mach's as a make-shift low-end woofer, but it was just crapping all over the high end of the speakers. So off they go to the pool hall!

[harley .guy07]

Well that can tell you that size does not mean everything in a speaker. thats why there are quite a few high end audio lovers out there that use stand mount speakers as their mains, even when they could afford floorstanders. they just like the improved imaging and point source sound that monitors can sometimes do better than floorstanders if they are set up right. Not to say that floorstanders are bad because some of the best speakers out there are floorstanders and the best of them will keep up or beat any stand mount speaker but the cost is a lot higher to do so, so when people ask me what they can get for a limited amount of money I will tell them they can get better quality of crossovers and drivers in a stand mount speaker in their given price range unless their price range is very high or they have a real big room to fill. there are exceptions to this but they are a rarety. Me I like the dynamics and bass capability of floorstanders but unless they can image and soundstage like a stand mount I for the most part am not interested in them. I run floorstanders but I have modified them to image and soundstage way better than they did in stock form so I am pretty happy with them for right now but I do know that an upgrade will be in my future. Its just something of a continious improvment process.

[harley .guy07]

the hafler is a pre-amp. I am still getting the hlly t-amp 2020. I am just in dilema trying to find something decent to add more inputs and maybe a sonic better. I have read days apon days of the pluses to having a t-amp and full range speakers. kinda like tube meets SS I guess.

I guess I missed the fact that the hafler unit is a preamp. I have seen some pretty good preamps from them but have not personally worked with one long enough to know how it stacks up against Adcom,Rotel or others in this price range. I as well have not had a chance to play around with T amps enough to know their capabilities or their weaknesses. Like I said before the people I know that have run full range single driver speakers usually run either tube amps or single ended class A amps and they get good results. But T amps are of newer technology and they might be a good choice for this, I just don't have any personal experience with them to be of any assistance on that.

[Freewillisdead112]

Hey, for the $100ish the t-amp cost's, if it does'nt work out to be a good amp i can just make a nice little computer setup out of it and get ahold of something thats a little better. No issue. I just want to know what all this hype is about. I for sure want to get that emo cd player. Just stuck in a crossroad, as i have read alot about a squeezebox running flac will sound better then most $1000 down cdp's. I would want proof of this though!

[harley .guy07]

Well I am looking at computer music server stuff right now as well. I think I will wait for the first of the year when the price on 1.5 to 2 tb hard drives goes down and take my time in choosing which dac to go with. I know I will be using usb for signal transfer since it is simple from my laptop and have heard good things about this kind of setup. Looking at the musiland md-10 dac since it upsamples to 24/192 and can handle anything in between that. Plus I have heard good things about it for the price.
One thing I will say is that there is nothing wrong with having both a good cd player and a music server(pc) in your system. but if you get a good enough dac for your music server you can make it serve double duty with a cd player or transport and it might save you some money. but I dout it since the Emotiva is only 400 bucks and has one hell of a following. Mr. Peabody amongst others has said this player is great for the money and can stand up to players double its price. And seeing the knowledge and components that Mr. Peabody has I would take his opinion as good as gold. I think for now I will get my music server going with a good dac, hook my multi disc player up to it as well and go from there. I might be satisfied with that since I have heard others being very happy with setups like this and since there are dacs out there that take USB, and all digital outputs it should be a no brainer to do. But I do think the future of source music could possibly be a music server since there are so many options and they are very convenient. And you are right about the T-amp. I have heard people using them for computer speaker amps with good results so you probably couldn't go wrong at least trying it. If it doesn't work you could always look for one of the options I mentioned earlier and probably find something somewhat afordable used.

[frenchmon]

heres a steal.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1262293595&/Marsh-Sound-Design-P-2000t-hybrid

[Mr Peabody]

In case you don't see my thread, the Emotiva stereo preamp is on sale $349.00.

[Freewillisdead112]

In case you don't see my thread, the Emotiva stereo preamp is on sale $349.00.

Well darn! If the sale last's over a month that would work out real well! I could squeeze out The $800 ish for the cdp and the pre over a couple months each. So if the sale is still going on I will for sure grab the pre first.

I have never had anything besides dvd players as cdp's before and honestly have no idea what to expect. When I went to look at the B&W 686 and 685's the guy had a TOTL cary cdp running balanced to a TOTL Krell and I honesly never in my live heard something that fantastic! But I know for a long time I could never afford anything, anything that nice sounding. I would put $500 on it if I took the 686's home and ran them on anything in my price range they would not make me happy.

What do you think I am going to gain doing this cdp upgrade. I can here a sonic better on 320kbs mp3's and flac's from my computer then a quality cd out of my dvd player. So I am guessing my dvd player just suck's really bad, as running a pc on a horrible $10 rca cable and no dac it would'nt be that great. Who knows!

[Freewillisdead112]

heres a steal.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1262293595&/Marsh-Sound-Design-P-2000t-hybrid

Know anything about it?

If it sits a little while I could grab it if its really that good of a deal. Doubt he would go down on the price though.