I'm getting a bug to buy these, tell me why not..

[atomicAdam]

AKG Acoustics K 701 - $269.95 from B&H

Could plug them straight into my AVA Omega III pre-amp and listen to records as loud as I want. And maybe check detail, clarity, and stereo depth and accuracy of cart alignment.

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/headphones-home-audio/headphones/akg-acoustics/k-701/PRD_404292_2750crx.aspx

Tell me why I shouldn't.

[poppachubby]

Great set, great price...c'mon, do it sissy boy!!!

[JohnMichael]

...c'mon, do it sissy boy!!!


He forgets that you can ban him. I do not like listening to headphones. My roommate kept suggesting I buy a pair. Then I bought the Krell S-300i and when it arrived I realized no headphone jack. As you can tell I have no real advice.

[atomicAdam]

He forgets that you can ban him. I do not like listening to headphones. My roommate kept suggesting I buy a pair. Then I bought the Krell S-300i and when it arrived I realized no headphone jack. As you can tell I have no real advice.

I do like headphones at times. At work I love them, and at home after 8pm I try not to make any noise. I'm a nice neighbor.

[poppachubby]

AA, keep in mind you'll need an amp to drive those suckers into optimum performance. From the AVA you'll be ok, but for comp or portable use, an amp would also be needed. Really, if you're thinking about it and have the budgeted funds, they are really a great set. I suppose you've read Ajani's legendary thread by now, if not, you'll be inspired by the end of it.

I am a "headphone" guy, it's what brought me to hi-fi really. Still love to drift away with a solid set of cans. I can assure you, your wife will think it's the best purchase you've made yet.


Then I bought the Krell S-300i and when it arrived I realized no headphone jack.

Why do you suppose no headphone jack JM? I suppose Krell aren't alone in that endeavour...my Copland didn't either. I think they figure if a guy wants phones, he'll buy an amp.

[atomicAdam]

ordered... end of thread unless someone wants to start a monkey knife fight?

[JohnMichael]

ordered... end of thread unless someone wants to start a monkey knife fight?



We save those for fuses and the flu.

[atomicAdam]

We save those for fuses and the flu.

lol - yeah!

[poppachubby]

Congrats!! I'll be waiting for your "Atomic Adam's first impressions of AKG K701 and AVA" thread.

[atomicAdam]

Congrats!! I'll be waiting for your "Atomic Adam's first impressions of AKG K701 and AVA" thread.

Thanks. I'm going to have a few of these to write soon.

One on the 4 different cables I have. The MonoPrice, BJC, MicroPurl, Granite Audio

(Just wrote up a bit of a long but short write up to JohnMichael on this topic last night)

and now another one the K701 and AVA amp.

[atomicAdam]

just came in the office - can't wait to get home and plug in with the KingRex Headquarters headphone amp - and into the AVA Omega III pre-amp.

damn i'm gonna have an awesome night of isolation.

[Happy Camper]

aA,

The K70x need a good break in of several (3-4) hundred hours. Initial sessions will be light bodied presentation, some sibilance, no bass impact. They will do best with a hybrid or ss amp. They are very detailed with an artificial high and about the largest headstage out there. When broken in, the highs will smooth out and bass will gain accuracy and extend to about 30~. The headstage extends outside your skull. They do well with natural instruments and vocals. Not real engaging with high energy genre and bass heavy music.

I'd suggest a hybrid amp with a digital source and an ss amp with analog. A full tube amp would be expensive because of the power supply needed to run the well. I'd suggest an output of at least 500 mw. The K70x are 64ohm but not very sensitive. AKG says 200mw max power rating but experience is complex material needs more reserve current. The K70x will scale well with better front ends and are ruthless on poor recordings.

A couple of things to help the break in. Wash your pads a couple of times (notice the position of the donuts before removing them as the thicker part goes to the back). This will get the foam to conform to your skull quicker. This will help the bass. Positioning is important to get the best bass too. They respond well with pink noise at moderate volume.

And after doing all that, you may not like them. Re-sell on these are around $190. If you do like them, responses have been favorable on a re-cable. They get another level of clarity and speed. I don't think I'd re-cable unless perhaps a silver coated copper with an analog source.

Negatives include plastic sounding mid-highs that throws off the natural timbre and pitch of stringed instruments. They have no bass impact and present everything in an airy presentation. Little weight in the mid-lows down. Many people have problems with the headband bumps on their heads. A little leather conditioner and a hard fold at the crown of the headband will loosen them up quicker than just wearing them.

And the worst thing is you can never wear them in public. They look to some like toilet seats.

[poppachubby]

Ok Adam, here's a pink and white noise gen with freq. sweep also. I've given this to a few guys on here who have dug it. http://www.burninwave.com/

[atomicAdam]

aA,

The K70x need a good break in of several (3-4) hundred hours. Initial sessions will be light bodied presentation, some sibilance, no bass impact. They will do best with a hybrid or ss amp. They are very detailed with an artificial high and about the largest headstage out there. When broken in, the highs will smooth out and bass will gain accuracy and extend to about 30~. The headstage extends outside your skull. They do well with natural instruments and vocals. Not real engaging with high energy genre and bass heavy music.

I'd suggest a hybrid amp with a digital source and an ss amp with analog. A full tube amp would be expensive because of the power supply needed to run the well. I'd suggest an output of at least 500 mw. The K70x are 64ohm but not very sensitive. AKG says 200mw max power rating but experience is complex material needs more reserve current. The K70x will scale well with better front ends and are ruthless on poor recordings.

A couple of things to help the break in. Wash your pads a couple of times (notice the position of the donuts before removing them as the thicker part goes to the back). This will get the foam to conform to your skull quicker. This will help the bass. Positioning is important to get the best bass too. They respond well with pink noise at moderate volume.

And after doing all that, you may not like them. Re-sell on these are around $190. If you do like them, responses have been favorable on a re-cable. They get another level of clarity and speed. I don't think I'd re-cable unless perhaps a silver coated copper with an analog source.

Negatives include plastic sounding mid-highs that throws off the natural timbre and pitch of stringed instruments. They have no bass impact and present everything in an airy presentation. Little weight in the mid-lows down. Many people have problems with the headband bumps on their heads. A little leather conditioner and a hard fold at the crown of the headband will loosen them up quicker than just wearing them.

And the worst thing is you can never wear them in public. They look to some like toilet seats.

Well - you obviously have had a pair or know what the hell you are talking about.

Sound stage is small and dynamics are tight right now. Listening to simple vinyl recordings sounds good but Darkside of the Moon was horrible at parts.

Right now I've got the AVA Omega III pre-amp and the KingRex Tripath Headphone amp and have been switching between the two. The AVA puts out better bass, fuller body, no punch, but I've got to turn the volume almost all the way up. The KingRex sound ok in the mids highs to highs. Lacking lower mids and upper bass. Which is a critique i've read in a 6moon review of the Tripath T2020-20 chip. But who knows.

I'm supposed to have a Trends Audio T10 tube amp on the way, that might not cut it for these.

I'm going to run them on the pinknoise all day tomorrow - thanks puppachub - I saw that link before and d/l that app. But I can't find now.

The head strap doesn't bother me too much, but the ear muffs are a bit hard. Washing machine? Really? Would a hand wash be better?

So far I don't here the shhhhh sounds and they did really pretty well with NIN FDTS - though not awesome. Was going to try Massive Attack soon. But good to know the bass will get better. If it does it sounds like it will be perfect for me.

You have some recommended amps to pair with? Ajani suggested Musical Fidelity XCan V8 and Benchmark DAC1 (or maybe just the Benchmark H1).

Thanks -

-aA

[atomicAdam]

seems like the KingRex should be a good match in power - at 360mW at 60ohm.

the TrendsAudio is 3.0 Watts per channel on 33 Ohm Headphone

1mW = 1thousandth of a watt - so 3.0 Watts would be 3,000mW. Looking at the KingRex stats - it appears that as Ohms go up mW go down. Help me if my math is wrong, or logic - but if the K701 are 64Ohm than about double the 33 of the TA so about 1.5Watts per channel. Which would mean 1,500mW. Or do I have one extra zero? and it is 150mW. Which is a bit under what is recommended. So a good test would be to see if it has issues with large complex musical pieces.

[atomicAdam]

aA,

I'd suggest a hybrid amp with a digital source and an ss amp with analog. A full tube amp would be expensive because of the power supply needed to run the well. I'd suggest an output of at least 500 mw. The K70x are 64ohm but not very sensitive. AKG says 200mw max power rating but experience is complex material needs more reserve current. The K70x will scale well with better front ends and are ruthless on poor recordings.


.

Specs around the web for the K701 are

Frequency Response: 10Hz to 39.8k Hz

Efficiency: 105 dB SPL /V

Maximum input power: 200 mW

Impedance: 62 Ohms

[Happy Camper]

Hand wash/air dry.

Mine are on my head as I type.

Looking at your gear says you are familiar with quality sound. FR & such are marketing gimmicks. No way a hp will give you sub bass in the 10~ range. Not too many subs will get that low. Throwing sub freq. sweeps at them will give you an idea of how accurate they stay until the bass starts to fall apart. If no source gives more than 22k (human threshold), what does having an upper range twice as high do to make it sound better?

I agree with you about your amp being a good match. Others are the Heed Canamp, Dark Voice 336SE, Millet Hybrid, Woo 6 maxxed, Singlepower Extreme (certified used), Beta 22, Bijou. If going full tube, the extra spent under the hood (quality parts) is critical to getting everything out of the headphone and perform with impedance mismatches if using multiple hps. I've been able to tuberoll some bass and an even larger headscape to the presentation.

[poppachubby]

It's almost like a formula, for every 100/150 dollars added to the MSRP they will open the range a bit on each end.

[atomicAdam]

well - went on vacation last week - left the headphones burning in with pink noise for the whole 9 days and today - back at the office - they sound great!

will go into more detail later - but am so glad to get these sucker burned in.

[Geoffcin]

well - went on vacation last week - left the headphones burning in with pink noise for the whole 9 days and today - back at the office - they sound great!

will go into more detail later - but am so glad to get these sucker burned in.

Wow, 9 days of pink noise??? Those suckers are burned in for sure!

[audio amateur]

Perhaps a little too extreme for me...

[Geoffcin]

Perhaps a little too extreme for me...

I'm not a headphone guy, but I wouldn't be surprised that it could take a hundred hours or more to break them in. Certainly my Sennheiser's sounded better (especially the bass) after a couple months of light use. But then I never did do a burn in to them. More power to Adam that he had the guts to leave them cooking and unattended for 9 days.

[poppachubby]

I'm not a headphone guy, but I wouldn't be surprised that it could take a hundred hours or more to break them in. Certainly my Sennheiser's sounded better (especially the bass) after a couple months of light use. But then I never did do a burn in to them. More power to Adam that he had the guts to leave them cooking and unattended for 9 days.

You would be correct sir. 9 days at 24 hours = 206 hours. Perfect Adam!! My AKG K66 are still getting better. There was a distinct 2 month period, I estimate around 5-600 hours, where the improvements were so audible, I was excited to wear them.

So Adam, I have a tube tech in the wings. I have joined the Golden Tube forum. I have begun searching for speakers. I have bought a Kenwood Basic C1 preamp (classic BTW).
All I need is a Golden Tube Audio SE-40.

[atomicAdam]

You would be correct sir. 9 days at 24 hours = 206 hours. Perfect Adam!! My AKG K66 are still getting better. There was a distinct 2 month period, I estimate around 5-600 hours, where the improvements were so audible, I was excited to wear them.

So Adam, I have a tube tech in the wings. I have joined the Golden Tube forum. I have begun searching for speakers. I have bought a Kenwood Basic C1 preamp (classic BTW).
All I need is a Golden Tube Audio SE-40.

Yep - I did some box hunting today at the office and will do my best to pack it up tonight. Otherwise off the the box store.

[atomicAdam]

I'm not a headphone guy, but I wouldn't be surprised that it could take a hundred hours or more to break them in. Certainly my Sennheiser's sounded better (especially the bass) after a couple months of light use. But then I never did do a burn in to them. More power to Adam that he had the guts to leave them cooking and unattended for 9 days.


Well - they were at the office. So I left the computer on, and KingRex Headquarters Amp and the headphones. We have servers running 24/7 so why not a headphone amp. Put them a bit out of the way as to not bother anyone in the office last week.

The soundstage is amazing at this point. The sound also seems more together, smoother, and has more flow. Bass is punchier and while working today, several times, I've stopped and listened and thought....oh that sounds cool. I'm going to take it all home tonight and play CDs though it, maybe some vinyl.

[Geoffcin]

The soundstage is amazing at this point. The sound also seems more together, smoother, and has more flow. Bass is punchier and while working today, several times, I've stopped and listened and thought....oh that sounds cool. I'm going to take it all home tonight and play CDs though it, maybe some vinyl.

Glad to hear it!

Not to go off topic, but I'm about ready to drop some change on a new cart. Seems my old Shure V15 type III is non-salvagable. I see that your using the Shure 97xE, and that's one of the carts that is on my short list. If you've got a recommendation for it let me know.

[atomicAdam]

Glad to hear it!

Not to go off topic, but I'm about ready to drop some change on a new cart. Seems my old Shure V15 type III is non-salvagable. I see that your using the Shure 97xE, and that's one of the carts that is on my short list. If you've got a recommendation for it let me know.

I wish I could say I'd recommend it, but it is something I'm about to upgrade I fear. Though I'm going to post in the vinyl room some of my issues. But quickly enough, combined with my gear, over all, it all seems a bit warm and like there isn't enough headroom and dynamics.

But i'm about to start a thread on this to get some opinions.

[poppachubby]

Glad to hear it!

Not to go off topic, but I'm about ready to drop some change on a new cart. Seems my old Shure V15 type III is non-salvagable. I see that your using the Shure 97xE, and that's one of the carts that is on my short list. If you've got a recommendation for it let me know.

Ortofon 2M Red or Blue

[poppachubby]

Yep - I did some box hunting today at the office and will do my best to pack it up tonight. Otherwise off the the box store.

Saaweeeeeeeeeeeetttt!!!!

[atomicAdam]

Ortofon 2M Red or Blue

what about this one http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-HMC20-Cartridge

[Geoffcin]

what about this one http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-HMC20-Cartridge

Looks like it could be a contender, but I think more for your rig than mine. My rumbly old Marantz just ain't going to do it justice.

Right now I can get a Shure 97xE delivered to my door for about $60. On a TT that's worth about $100 that makes sense to me. Plus there's the condition of my 30 year old vinyl to consider. None of which was "audiophile" grade even when it was new. Did they even make a 180 gram pressing of "Deep Purple's Greatest hits" anyway?! HA!! :4:

[atomicAdam]

Looks like it could be a contender, but I think more for your rig than mine. My rumbly old Marantz just ain't going to do it justice.

Right now I can get a Shure 97xE delivered to my door for about $60. On a TT that's worth about $100 that makes sense to me. Plus there's the condition of my 30 year old vinyl to consider. None of which was "audiophile" grade even when it was new. Did they even make a 180 gram pressing of "Deep Purple's Greatest hits" anyway?! HA!! :4:


Oh - yeah - sorry - I meant for me.

[frenchmon]

Looks like it could be a contender, but I think more for your rig than mine. My rumbly old Marantz just ain't going to do it justice.

Right now I can get a Shure 97xE delivered to my door for about $60. On a TT that's worth about $100 that makes sense to me. Plus there's the condition of my 30 year old vinyl to consider. None of which was "audiophile" grade even when it was new. Did they even make a 180 gram pressing of "Deep Purple's Greatest hits" anyway?! HA!! :4:

I had a tt back in the 80's. I knew nothing about 180 grams back then and dont now....so what is that any ways.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

How often do you have to change needles on a TT these days?

frenchmon

[atomicAdam]

How often do you have to change needles on a TT these days?

frenchmon

Every hundred thousand miles isn't it? That is what my Scion says at least.

[frenchmon]

Every hundred thousand miles isn't it? That is what my Scion says at least.

lol...I didn't know you changed needles on a Scion.

Forgive my ignorance but do they still call them needles these days?


frenchmon

[atomicAdam]

lol...I didn't know you changed needles on a Scion.

Forgive my ignorance but do they still call them needles these days?


frenchmon

I'm not expert on what things are called - I was just making fun the changing things on cars and turntables. Saw an importunity, and took it.

[Geoffcin]

I had a tt back in the 80's. I knew nothing about 180 grams back then and dont now....so what is that any ways.

frenchmon

Back in the day I never really thought about "designer vinyl" either. Now you can get specially pressed high quality records. Think about it like a coin. There's the regular grade for circulation, and what's called a "Proof" version of the same coin that's pressed with extra care and force to make it as perfect as possible. 180g and 200g vinyl pressings are the record equivalent.

[poppachubby]

I had a tt back in the 80's. I knew nothing about 180 grams back then and dont now....so what is that any ways.

frenchmon


Here's a conversation that Adam and I had a while ago, might answer a couple things for you Frenchy. Of course, there's alot of opinion mixed in...

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=31663

[Ajani]

Well - they were at the office. So I left the computer on, and KingRex Headquarters Amp and the headphones. We have servers running 24/7 so why not a headphone amp. Put them a bit out of the way as to not bother anyone in the office last week.

The soundstage is amazing at this point. The sound also seems more together, smoother, and has more flow. Bass is punchier and while working today, several times, I've stopped and listened and thought....oh that sounds cool. I'm going to take it all home tonight and play CDs though it, maybe some vinyl.

Sorry to interupt the vinyl discussion guys :ciappa:

Adam, Congrats on the decision to try out some headphones.... even if you don't use them as your main source, they are definitely useful for late night listening sessions...

So have you had a chance to listen to the phones at home yet?

[atomicAdam]

Sorry to interupt the vinyl discussion guys :ciappa:

Adam, Congrats on the decision to try out some headphones.... even if you don't use them as your main source, they are definitely useful for late night listening sessions...

So have you had a chance to listen to the phones at home yet?


Yep - Plugged into the AVA Omega III I dropped The Wall into my CD player last night and went for a little ride. So far I can say they are detailed, dynamic, huge soundstage, and can handle the complex music. Sound stage doesn't collapse when music gets complex and detail never seemed to suffer. One thing, bass. I'm not sure if either it just don't rock it like I'd like or if it does hold back except for those moments when it really needs to pump it. Tom drum rolls sound FANTASTIC!!!!! :4: And really heavy bass albums I have don't blow it out but don't rumble the ears either. Maybe that is a good thing.

[Ajani]

Yep - Plugged into the AVA Omega III I dropped The Wall into my CD player last night and went for a little ride. So far I can say they are detailed, dynamic, huge soundstage, and can handle the complex music. Sound stage doesn't collapse when music gets complex and detail never seemed to suffer. One thing, bass. I'm not sure if either it just don't rock it like I'd like or if it does hold back except for those moments when it really needs to pump it. Tom drum rolls sound FANTASTIC!!!!! :4: And really heavy bass albums I have don't blow it out but don't rumble the ears either. Maybe that is a good thing.

I find it to have very well controlled bass... which may or may not be a good thing depending on your listening preferences...

Also, this article by Sean Olive gives a pretty good explanation of why headphone bass is normally seen as deficient compared to speakers:

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/

Basically, the lack of physical impact (whole-body vibrations) means you need to turn up the bass on headphones a few decibels to give the same effect as speakers... so a flat frequency response will likely be perceived as lacking in bass for headphones...

[poppachubby]

One thing, bass. I'm not sure if either it just don't rock it like I'd like or if it does hold back except for those moments when it really needs to pump it. Tom drum rolls sound FANTASTIC!!!!! :4: And really heavy bass albums I have don't blow it out but don't rumble the ears either. Maybe that is a good thing.


Adam, I don't know what your preference is for bass in your home system. Not sure what exposure you've had to cans either. AKG's across the board have a very natural bass response. It's never boomy or big. As a bass guitar player, this is why I love them so much. I absolutely cherish the sound of my K240's for their awesome bass tone.

Just today, I had on "The Payback" by James Brown. This is a bass heavy album. The horns add quite a rumble when pumping in time with the rhythm section too. My AKG's conveyed everything perfectly. Detailed, present and bright. Again, never boomy or over baring.

Next time you're listening, try to appreciate the good points to your 701's bass presentation Adam. Sounds like it's something that's just different for your ears, and you may need to adjust to.

My suggestion? Throw on some Massive Attack and have a good listen with your cans. They'll deliver that life giving, natural bass that's never fatiguing and has you wanting more...