Head to head audio site

[surgeandoj]

Is there a website out there that compares speakers, cables, recievers, amplifiers etc. ? I frequent www.tomshardware.com for computer component comparisons. For exaple when the new p4's came out they compared different motherboards, their features and performance and they get a rating. Just wondering if there's a site out there that does the same thing. If there isn't, there should be I'm sure the makers of tomshardware have cashed in on advertising and royalties.

[mtrycraft]

Is there a website out there that compares speakers, cables, recievers, amplifiers etc. ? I frequent www.tomshardware.com for computer component comparisons. For exaple when the new p4's came out they compared different motherboards, their features and performance and they get a rating. Just wondering if there's a site out there that does the same thing. If there isn't, there should be I'm sure the makers of tomshardware have cashed in on advertising and royalties.


Not that I know of that is reliable. Computer testing is rather simple. You bench test them, no bias involved. Listeing to audio components is not so easy. Audiophiles are not interested in bench testing.

[happy ears]

.From Mtrycraft

"Not that I know of that is reliable. Computer testing is rather simple. You bench test them, no bias involved. Listeing to audio components is not so easy. Audiophiles are not interested in bench testing."

Mtrycraft how would you know that all audiophiles are not interested in bench testing? If specifications are all you are interested in how will this tell you about the sound. Yes true listening to audio components is not easy, what one person likes another may not. I stand by my belief that all audio components produce their own sonic signature this cannot be avoided. Similar but not identical.

That bench testing for computers has been no indication of computer reliability, however they are getting better all the time.

Enjoy the music

[markw]

...both Sound and Vision and Stereophile publish annual compendiums of most of the consumer gear available in the US. for the minimal investment involved here, you can sit and compare specs until the cows come home.

As far as subjective comparisons, some magazines occasionally do head to heads for some gear in the same range.

But, for anyone to do a subjective head to head for all gear is kind of expensive, time consuming and ultimately worthless. After all, subjective is just that. One persons (or panel's) preference. The closest thing I can think of is What Hi Fi but they have a decidedly British slant to their preferences.

[thepogue]

not that it's a bad thing...but it's sooo obvious and the problem is that soem take it fer gospel...and it's not better (nor worst) then the other "rags"...it sould be taken fer what it's worth....

[mtrycraft]

. Mtrycraft how would you know that all audiophiles are not interested in bench testing?


One only has to read the posts on websites.

If specifications are all you are interested in how will this tell you about the sound.

Simple. There is something to worry about, or not.


Yes true listening to audio components is not easy, what one person likes another may not.


Yep, that is what can happne when one is biased.

[/b]I stand by my belief that all audio components produce their own sonic signature this cannot be avoided. Similar but not identical.[/b]

Sure you stand on this beliefe as you don't know otherwise. That what makes the audioworld go around and makes for a good marketplace.

That bench testing for computers has been no indication of computer reliability, however they are getting better all the time.

Just how well they perform. Time tells of reliability.

[happy ears]

"Yes true listening to audio components is not easy, what one person likes another may not.

Yep, that is what can happne when one is biased."

Wouldn't this bias work both ways? I cannot tell what someone else likes, this I have known for many years. How would you figure out what someone else hears is right or wrong? All we can say is what we hear and our personally biases are always involved; oops sorry this only applies to all the other people not you. When someone says they like the sound of records over CD’s it is a preference, however when the table is reversed it is not a preference.

“[/b]I stand by my belief that all audio components produce their own sonic signature this cannot be avoided. Similar but not identical.[/b]

Sure you stand on this beliefe as you don't know otherwise. That what makes the audioworld go around and makes for a good marketplace.”

I may not know otherwise but I am in good company, Nelson Pass agrees we me but what does he know. Isn’t it odd that when I agree with you I am right but I am wrong when I disagree? Talk about an elitist attitude and bias, bow to the great Mtrycraft for he is always right. At least I have never made a mistake in my life, many but not one. You must live a sheltered life because only in audio their seams to be oil snake salesmen wish this were true.


Enjot the music as life is too short.

[surgeandoj]

maybe not comparing how the component sounds but how it looks on the charts. Comparing the features, menus, inputs, outputs, comparing each brand's special features to one another. All this is not measured by the human ear but by computers and equipment that measures sound levels, wattage, and any errors that occur. This would also be a good way for companies that don't have a huge retail market to be compared to those more established companies found in your local audio store.
There is a site out there i found by accident once that compared many dvd players and tested how they performed with different types of video/ audio.
This is just a way to help the average consumer slosh through all the data there is out there about audio components just like tom's hardware.com does.

[Sondek]

Is there a website out there that compares speakers, cables, recievers, amplifiers etc. ? I frequent www.tomshardware.com for computer component comparisons. For exaple when the new p4's came out they compared different motherboards, their features and performance and they get a rating. Just wondering if there's a site out there that does the same thing. If there isn't, there should be I'm sure the makers of tomshardware have cashed in on advertising and royalties.
The problem is, with all components regardless of testing procedures—there is bias, and subjective opinion.

It’s a very bad thing to rely on others ratings and opinions. I do not believe all measurements are complete, nor conclusive.

The Wilson system speakers, ZU Druid, and Norh 9.0 all measure very badly according to www.audioperfectionist.com and www.murphyblaster.com. Audio perfectionist notes that the Vandersteen 2ce signature is one of the flattest measuring speakers on the market, yet some perceive them as bloated and slow.

Wilson is considered in rarefied air of high end to be ultra-precise, but measurements belie that. Some wilson models have 10-12db variances from flat.

There are factors to consider:
A. Listener bias—what kind of presentation does he like? Forward and bright, euphonic, dry, etc.
B. Associated electronics: did he use a tube amp that might be considered slow or unable to drive the speaker properly?
C. Cable type: did he use normal cables, or some form of wild system with inline component network?
D. Room. Did they pull a Stereophile and review a set of large speakers in too small a room? 14x16 is not big enough for many speakers, especially floor standers.
E. That guy does not have your ears. A 56 year old guy might have trained hearing, but is his upper treble hearing really as acute as a 28 year olds? Can he hear that upper treble resonance?

The only way to obtain a proper opinion of a product is to ensure it is properly driven, in a proper sized (and treated) room, over a period of weeks or months. Forming an opinion of a product from a 2 hour dealer demo is not conclusive. Some dealers I have been to really botch the setup.

Listening yourself is the only way.

[happy ears]

Yes listening for yourself is the only way you will find out what you like. To each his or her own. Specifications are helpful but do not tell the whole story. Are the specs listed correct and true. There will always be personel preferences in equipment and music as well. I wish that my music collection contained more but there are always limitations. There is so much that I have never heard and probably never will but by keeping open ears and listening for oneself you may be exposed to music that you never thought that you would like.

Now for salesmen I wish that they would learn the product that they are selling. Many times I have left a store simply because when they are asked a question and do not know they go straight to the bull. I can except that someone does not know but have no use for them when they start lying.

Music and the equipment does seam to bring the worst out of us.

Enjoy the music

[mtrycraft]

maybe not comparing how the component sounds but how it looks on the charts. Comparing the features, menus, inputs, outputs, comparing each brand's special features to one another. All this is not measured by the human ear but by computers and equipment that measures sound levels, wattage, and any errors that occur. This would also be a good way for companies that don't have a huge retail market to be compared to those more established companies found in your local audio store.
There is a site out there i found by accident once that compared many dvd players and tested how they performed with different types of video/ audio.
This is just a way to help the average consumer slosh through all the data there is out there about audio components just like tom's hardware.com does.


Yes, those features you mention certainly are comparable and shoul;d be the first things one looks at. But then, many components, audiophile ones whould not measure up so companies don't like that aspect.

Oh, we don't have hostility here:) just debates, heated ones :)

[mtrycraft]

Wouldn't this bias work both ways?

Yes, it can. However, bias can be controlled for very well, especially when sound alone is the criteria.

I cannot tell what someone else likes, this I have known for many years.[b]


Yes, that is so.


[b] How would you figure out what someone else hears is right or wrong? All we can say is what we hear and our personally biases are always involved; oops sorry this only applies to all the other people not you.

All depends on what you are after. If you want facts, you do a better job of accounting for bias. Yes, it is doable.
If bias is not an issue, then it really is not relevant for others as it only has meaning to you alone.



When someone says they like the sound of records over CD’s it is a preference, however when the table is reversed it is not a preference.

Hardly this is the issue. Never or rarely a preference is expressed but testable issues are expressed. You never see a discussion of issues of preferences, do you? I'd like to refress my memory if you have a link to such discussion.



I may not know otherwise but I am in good company, Nelson Pass agrees we me but what does he know.

All depends what he really means to say, in context. He could be wrong too, just as the esteemed Dr/professor Hawksford and his Essex Echo where he made som basic booboo, yet many still agree with it as it may upset their belief otherwise.

Isn’t it odd that when I agree with you I am right but I am wrong when I disagree?

Well, we both could be wrong at the same time, or yes, we could be both right at the same time and wrong at other time. Why is that so hard to understand?


Talk about an elitist attitude and bias, bow to the great Mtrycraft for he is always right.

Always? Hardly. I am after facts, not beliefs, myths or voodoo.

You must live a sheltered life because only in audio their seams to be oil snake salesmen wish this were true.

You need to read morte of my posts where I make reference to the whole of consumer marketplace where hype, myth, voodoo exist, audio doesn't have the market cornered, nor is it immune.


Enjot the music as life is too short.

Oh, I do enjoy the music, even on a boombox. :)

[Rikki]

Yes listening for yourself is the only way you will find out what you like. To each his or her own. Specifications are helpful but do not tell the whole story.

I agree, don't totally rely on specs but don't totally ignore them either, and let your own ears make the final decision.





Enjoy the music
The most intelligent comment in this whole discussion. :)