Question for music lovers who own a blu-ray player [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Question for music lovers who own a blu-ray player



Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-15-2009, 11:38 AM
I am looking for opinions from those who really enjoy audio, and own a Blu-ray player.

A) If a site existed that reviewed only music on Blu-ray disc, would you visit that site for its reviews?

B) What would you like to see on the site in terms of content.

Just curious to see what others think about this. I saw this question being asked elsewhere, and wanted to get opinions from this website.

GMichael
10-15-2009, 11:47 AM
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=31916

Hyfi
10-15-2009, 11:53 AM
Interesting question. I have been trying to find out if a Blu Ray player would enhance a standard cd as it does for a standard dvd. I have heard no it will not. I was thinking of using a higher end Blu Ray player as a universal disc player but if it won't sound as good as a good CDP then it's not worth it to me. I won't be purchasing any Blu Ray disks.

So you are asking as if music CDs were on a Blu Ray disk?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Interesting question. I have been trying to find out if a Blu Ray player would enhance a standard cd as it does for a standard dvd. I have heard no it will not.

Whether it will, or will not really depends on the player. Pioneer makes players that are good for both applications. So does Oppo. And surprisingly, the original PS3 has lower jitter specs than alot of high end CD players.


I was thinking of using a higher end Blu Ray player as a universal disc player but if it won't sound as good as a good CDP then it's not worth it to me. I won't be purchasing any Blu Ray disks.

So you are asking as if music CDs were on a Blu Ray disk?

At this time Blu-ray has some very good high quality high resolution classical music discs with just audio and no picture. They are of much higher quality than any CD, and are usually encoded at 24/96khz on five channels, to 24/192khz on 7.1 channels. It appears that Dts-HD master audio is the audio codec of choice, but some disc have 5.1 24/kHz PCM tracks as well. I thought this would appeal to lovers of classical music at the time being. However I am told that music of all genre's will appear on Blu-ray disc in the future.

3LB
10-15-2009, 01:28 PM
However I am told that music of all genre's will appear on Blu-ray disc in the future. I hope the industry standardizes a single format, because I just haven't the budget to buy every format and player that's been put out. And until a consensus format is reached, average Joe won't invest in new formats either, which means the prices aren't going down anytime soon. I've been wanting to buy a BlueRay player for some time, but have been ambivelent about it, for fear it'll be obsolete two or three years from now. Now you say they may be releasing albums on BlueRay eventually? I'm glad I have not invested much in any of the other hi-res/multi-channel formats.

noddin0ff
10-15-2009, 03:19 PM
There's music available on blu ray?

MasterCylinder
10-16-2009, 04:46 AM
I find this thread very helpful..............keep it going.

I have utilized a DVD player for a universal disc player for years. In 1997, I started out with a nice TOSHIBA unit (after researching many reviews at this very site) that still plays commercial-grade CDS very well but, never could play local studio-created discs or some copies of CDs.
Six years ago, I moved the TOSHIBA unit into one of the spare bedrooms and upgraded the main system with a top-line HARMAN KARDON unit that will play any format but is losing the ability to read anything that is not top-notch quality............the repair shop tells me they can fix it like new for $100.
But........................................I have since purchased a SONY 1080p-LCDTV and I'm interested in Blu-Ray...........and I like what I read about the OPPO Bpd-83..........looks to me like I could spend the $500 for that unit and have all that I need.
Am I missing something here ?

kexodusc
10-16-2009, 05:40 AM
Sir Terrence, I am all for a site reviewing audio on BluRay...

I would love to see a mix of musical genres..especially rock. Unfortunately, I always had the impression with SACD review sites that Jazz/Classical were 99% of the market. Most of my SACD's certainly fall into those 2 genres, but, most of my musical purchases fall under rock in various forms. A difficult task obviously, it's probably hard to do all genres justice while providing a cross section of genres. I think success depends on the quality of the music that makes it out on BluRay too..

I am less interested in concert performances than albums personally, though I do own a healthy collection of concert DVD's. I typically find I prefer studio versions of music to concert footage for the most part.

I hope BluRay audio takes off - more bands are starting wise up to the benefits of higher resolution audio.

I agree, a single, dominant format would help things, and I'm not married to any particular one.

Just my thoughts.

Hyfi
10-16-2009, 05:43 AM
But........................................ I like what I read about the OPPO Bpd-83..........looks to me like I could spend the $500 for that unit and have all that I need.
Am I missing something here ?

I have also been looking at this unit. I have also seen there are several mods to beef up CD playback as well as other things. Not sure of the cost of each mod but they are out there.

3LB
10-16-2009, 08:31 AM
I agree, a single, dominant format would help things, and I'm not married to any particular one. Certainly, there will always be the niche markets, but before CD players really started to improve in design, sales of CDs had to over take the more popular mediums of the times. Remember, it wasn't until 1992 until CDs overtook cassettes in sales (in America anyway), some 10 years after they started hitting the market place - and there wasn't even a competing digital medium in the '80s (at least not in prerecorded music). Sure, I can read and I can keep up with current trends but there came a time when I became less a gear head and was more focused on collecting music. At the turn of the century, there were so many different formats and treatments. First there was HDCD in the '90s, an audiophile encoded improvement process for regular CD, but you need an HDCD player to get any benefit from HDCD encoding, while XRCD (JVC) and Super Bit Mapping (Sony) promised improvement or regular CDs without the need for new equipment, the improvements were nominal and IMO, didn't push the envelope far enough. But most home systems had gone 5.1, so the natural progression (subjectively speaking) would have been 5.1 audio, since we now had the DVD, but audiophile market wanted the highest resolution possible, more so than multi-channel. Then DVDs took off and we heard there was a DVD-A format on the horizon that would offer hi-res and multichannel playback, but then that became somewhat conviluted, what with the industry still using two different codecs (Dolby Digital and DTS) and different HT/audio electronics companies trying to up the ante with 6.1 and even 7.1, 10.2, what have you. By the time DVD-A did come along, there was SACD as a competing multi-channel, hi-res format. Then there was HD DVD, now BlueRay...

All the while, universal players did exist, that played, decoded, whatever codec, whatever format, was backwards compatible, and they were pricey, but not every store carried them. This became too much a game for me. My kid has the only 5.1 system in the house; its in the basement where he has his Xbox 360 plugged into it. Was I really supposed to go out and buy a new player every 15 to 18 months? Was I really supposed to go out and buy both SACD and DVD-A players (before there were universal players) when they first came out because of the lack of availability of titles in both formats? I'm sure some of you did, but I betting that a lot of people didn't. I was ambivelant about buying into new formats because I can't afford to repurchase an album that I've already bought twice on CD (remasters) in any particular format until I'm convinced it'll be the last time I do so for a long time to come. I know this sort of sentiment is neither here nor there where audiophiles are concerned, and maybe some of them prefer it that way, as it makes whatever format more expensive and therefor exclusive, but until "they" bring a be-all-end-all standardized format and player to the masses, the prices and availability of titles will remain limited.

Now excuse me while I go listen to my phonograph :0:

MasterCylinder
10-16-2009, 08:40 AM
I have also been looking at this unit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check out this site :

http://bluray-players.net/

I found only two recommendations for a so-called "universal player".............the reviews on these two units discuss audio quality as well as video quality and features.

The first is the top-of-the-line DENON..............price = $4500............nice !

The other is the OPPO.............price = $500............more like my budget.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-17-2009, 03:52 PM
There's music available on blu ray?

Absolutely there is.

Surround Records currently has about 29 titles featuring mostly classical and experimental music. No video, just high quality 24/96 7.1 or 5.1, and 24/192khz 5.1 tracks mostly encoded in Dts-HD Master Audio.

2L has two titles. One with every audio codec currently available including SACD, DVD-A and 24/192khz PCM, Dts-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD tracks as well.

They are releasing more and more each month. Others studio will be onboard by next year I have been told.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-17-2009, 04:05 PM
I hope the industry standardizes a single format, because I just haven't the budget to buy every format and player that's been put out. And until a consensus format is reached, average Joe won't invest in new formats either, which means the prices aren't going down anytime soon. I've been wanting to buy a BlueRay player for some time, but have been ambivelent about it, for fear it'll be obsolete two or three years from now. Now you say they may be releasing albums on BlueRay eventually? I'm glad I have not invested much in any of the other hi-res/multi-channel formats.

3LB, there already is a single format. That format is the Blu-ray format. Everything you need to create high quality music is the format specs. Their specs exceed both SACD and DVD-A as it can have 8 channels of 24/192khz audio, something that neither SACD or DVD-A could accomplish as it is beyond their specs. Every major high quality codec whether lossy or lossless is supported by the format. I do not think we are going to see another disc based medium beyond Blu-ray as it provides the highest quality audio and video our eyes and ears can resolve.

Rich-n-Texas
10-18-2009, 06:49 AM
Absolutely there is.

Surround Records currently has about 29 titles featuring mostly classical and experimental music. No video, just high quality 24/96 7.1 or 5.1, and 24/192khz 5.1 tracks mostly encoded in Dts-HD Master Audio.

2L has two titles. One with every audio codec currently available including SACD, DVD-A and 24/192khz PCM, Dts-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD tracks as well.

They are releasing more and more each month. Others studio will be onboard by next year I have been told.
Thanks for that info. I thought concert BD's were all there was right now. :thumbsup:

3LB
10-18-2009, 08:09 AM
3LB, there already is a single format. That format is the Blu-ray format. Everything you need to create high quality music is the format specs. Their specs exceed both SACD and DVD-A as it can have 8 channels of 24/192khz audio, something that neither SACD or DVD-A could accomplish as it is beyond their specs. Every major high quality codec whether lossy or lossless is supported by the format. I do not think we are going to see another disc based medium beyond Blu-ray as it provides the highest quality audio and video our eyes and ears can resolve. Just so I understand, is blue-ray another word for bluebook spec laser that I read about 10 years ago?

noddin0ff
10-18-2009, 08:10 AM
Sir T, for a person I seem to remember emphasizing the the mastering over the medium, I find it odd to pick out blu-ray as the focal point for a music site.

I could see a site's emphasis on multi-channel and hi-rez production though. Part of it could educate as to the care and mastering that goes in that should produce something good. The other part could alert and discuss remarkable releases.

I'm a little dubious about blu-ray and music. It's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle after digital music has been so sharable and convertable. Blu-ray, as I understand, is not 'rip-able' and tied to the physical format. Good for control of the music chain and, hopefully, paying artists. I don't see it being that popular for music though--I think there will be many other paths to high-quality, high-rez that aren't blu-ray.

Although, I don't really appreciate concert video's and other 'watching music' kind of things. That to me is the obvious market, I'm just not part of it...yet, I suppose.

and...I don't yet have a blu-ray player. lol.

Hyfi
10-19-2009, 09:14 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check out this site :

http://bluray-players.net/

I found only two recommendations for a so-called "universal player".............the reviews on these two units discuss audio quality as well as video quality and features.

The first is the top-of-the-line DENON..............price = $4500............nice !

The other is the OPPO.............price = $500............more like my budget.

Only thing lacking from the OPPO is the netflix streaming ability. It has the Ethernet for BD-Live so why not the netfix?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-19-2009, 10:09 AM
Just so I understand, is blue-ray another word for bluebook spec laser that I read about 10 years ago?

I don't think so. 10 years ago the format was nothing more than a disc storage medium for Japanese corporations.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-19-2009, 10:24 AM
Sir T, for a person I seem to remember emphasizing the the mastering over the medium, I find it odd to pick out blu-ray as the focal point for a music site.

Noddin, considering the fact that the Blu-ray format may just the last stand for high quality music, I find it quite logical. Mastering is still the focal point of any recording, but now the entire recording chain is important with this format. When you start at 24/352khz at the recording side, and can remain at that level through mastering, you can create an excellent end product. When you can actually hear these extremely high resolution recordings at a 24/192kHz, the only thing left is a great performance by the musicians.


I could see a site's emphasis on multi-channel and hi-rez production though. Part of it could educate as to the care and mastering that goes in that should produce something good. The other part could alert and discuss remarkable releases.

Much has changed over the years in the recording industry. Europe seems to be leading the pack in introducing extremely high resolution recording of classical music. Unfortunately you just cannot educate, as folks will only come to the site once. This site will review concert blurays and high resolution music on Bluray disc. While there will be an educational aspect to it, the focal point will be the reviews.


I'm a little dubious about blu-ray and music. It's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle after digital music has been so sharable and convertable. Blu-ray, as I understand, is not 'rip-able' and tied to the physical format. Good for control of the music chain and, hopefully, paying artists. I don't see it being that popular for music though--I think there will be many other paths to high-quality, high-rez that aren't blu-ray.

For sure bluray music will be a niche product. However unlike SACD and DVD-A no special equipment is needed to enjoy them. A bluray player and a HDMI receiver or pre-pro with a great multichannel amp and good speakers is all that is needed. Bluray music was not designed to compete with popular medium or low quality music. It was designed for those who appreciate the art of listening to music. While this may seem to be a dead activity these days, I am finding out it is not. Portable music is what it is..portable. Quality is not emphasized, just the portability. However there are many folks with really great systems that would enjoy hearing high quality music played through them. Well, it does not get any better than this.

Although, I don't really appreciate concert video's and other 'watching music' kind of things. That to me is the obvious market, I'm just not part of it...yet, I suppose.

and...I don't yet have a blu-ray player. lol.[/QUOTE]

Well, in less than a year Surround Records has released over 29 audio only recordings on Blu-ray disc, so it is not JUST for concert videos. But you are right, concert videos have pretty much dominated music releases.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Only thing lacking from the OPPO is the netflix streaming ability. It has the Ethernet for BD-Live so why not the netfix?

It is a profile 2.0 player, so netflix streaming can be added as a firmware upgrade. I think Oppo was just trying to perfect the things that really matter in a Blu-ray player, and not trying to do too much on their first attempt.

3LB
10-19-2009, 11:17 AM
A bluray player and a HDMI receiver or pre-pro with a great multichannel amp and good speakers is all that is needed.what do you mean, "pre-pro"? And why does the reciever have to have an HDMI input?

MasterCylinder
10-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Toshiba 65H84 RPTV custom 9" tubes
Toshiba X-A2 HD DVD
Sony PS3 Bluray
Grass Valley Pro HD A/V switcher
Onkyo PR-SC886 Pre-Pro
3 M-EQ 2300 equalizers
1 Berhinger feedback destroyer(sub eq)
1 Onkyo M-508 power amp (sub)
3 Onkyo M-504 power amp
1 Onkyo M-282 power amp
2 custom 4 way horn hybrid monitors
1 custom 2.5 way horn hybrid center monitor
8 custom 2 way horn hybid surrounds
4 custom 15" servo large sealed subs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Been looking at your gear there, Mr. Terrible......where do you keep this monster ?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-19-2009, 01:16 PM
what do you mean, "pre-pro"? And why does the reciever have to have an HDMI input?

A pre-pro is a pre-amp and audio/ video processor. The benefit of HDMI is two fold. Simplicity of hookup being one of them. The ability to accurately transmit 8 channels of 24/192khz audio being the other. One of the issues with SACD and DVD-A was the necessity of 6 wires having to go from one component to the other. The other poor bass management on the player side. HDMI eliminates this worry (along with many others) along with simplifing the hook up side. The signal maintains it integrability all the way from the player to the D/A process, as the bass management (which is always better) is in the receiver or pre-pro. .

Javier
10-21-2009, 03:42 PM
That sounds very interesting, I noticed that you are also an oppo owner, probably you received also a demo disc from AIX, and that is a sttunning recording, so i think Blu has a terrific poptential, just image steve wilson going blue instead of dvd-a( which are great by the way. At the moment iīm really thinking about the Neil Young Archives blu ray edition just to have more of a taste of music in BR, but man is expensive.
To the rest of you guys if you ever jump into BR go with the oppo i really donīt think that the denon could do or have to much of an improvement over the oppo this one is really a great product.( and plays everything that is on the market with the exception of the dead already HD-DVD).

3LB
10-21-2009, 06:54 PM
Sounds like a BlueRay player is in my future. A few months ago the wife and I walk into a Circuit City (as it was closing) and my wife saw one of their BlueRay demos and was floored and she never reacts to things like that ever, so if the quality was enough to stop her in her tracks...I just hope more BlueRay titles are released soon. No more CD reissues for me.

How long until a BlueRay ram and burner, that's the real question ;)