Frenchmon&Peabody have a meeting of the CDP's

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon and I got together this weekend and done some listening. He brought the X-ray, we began listening, hooking and unhooking and had a good time. I told him I'd get to the forum first and tell every one how bad his player sounded. :) No, Frenchmon is a good guy and I actually would have liked to let him post first but he has a very early morning and I wanted to post some impressions since a few here were talking about buying players.

I discovered the X-ray is a very good player and really had synergy with the CJ system. We both preferred it over the ERC-1. Not to say there was any big issue with the ERC, one has to keep in mind the X-ray's original price. The ERC was more neutral with a leaner controlled bass response. The X-ray was more warm but it didn't sacrifice detail. The ERC sound was like a charcoal picture compared to the X-ray being a full color painting. For instance, on one of Frenchmon's favorite Jazz pieces the sax through the ERC was clear and you heard the notes but it lacked, maybe I should leave it at that because I'm not sure how to describe how it lacked, it wasn't harsh. In comparison, the X-ray gave it tonal quality, the resonance and personality. Stand up bass on the ERC was controlled and detailed while through the X-ray you could hear the finger pluck but the strings had the lingering reverberation and deeper bottom end. The X-ray had a beautiful high end response, cymbals were clear and seemed proper decay but they were very sweet. The X-ray had all the micro and macro dynamics of a nice piece of tube gear. It would be a good player for some one wanting more of an analog sound from digital playback.

After agreeing we both preferred the X-ray I pulled the ERC and put the T+A back in the rack to see how the X-ray stacked up. I think I will take a break and let Frenchmon take over from here. We eventually drug the Krell amp in for a listen since Frenchmon told me he had never heard Krell, so hopefully he will share his thoughts on that as well.

So you guys looking for a second player I know Frenchmon would agree the ERC is a good player performing beyond it's price. While if you can go the extra bucks the X-ray is worth it for the additional refinement. More so than cost it may also come down to what you are looking for and type of music to be played. For instance, Kex likes to bang his head occasionally and still may prefer the more neutral and controlled ERC over the polite musicality of the X-ray.

[JohnMichael]

Congrats you guys, I think it is great members are getting together and comparing audio equipment. We will all learn and benefit.

[harley .guy07]

I liked hearing the fact that someone finally put the ERC up against something in a non biased comparison to see if it could hold up against some of the other good players out there to see how it stacks up, and more importantly to see if the ERC at $399 could keep up with the much more expensive players out there. I seems like the differences are there but the retail price for both machines are very different from each other. In my opinion this adds a good impression of the ERC. Yes it does not have the warm sound of the x-ray but that is to be extpected seeing how both these machines are built. I am not sure what the x-ray goes for on the used market but I don't think one could be had for 400 bucks but I could be wrong. Better is better by any degree and to be extpected with the retail price difference of these two machines. I am impressed that the ERC at 399 could hold its own with a more expensive unit. I think given this if Emo had more room in the money target to work with they could build one of the better units out there if they can make this good of a unit for 400 bucks. I would like to see a totaly thorough comparison of units in the ERC's price range like the marantz and denon machines or maybe put a rega in the mix as well since they make a unit is this price range as well. I think you guys did a comparison that was well needed to finally show people that while Emotiva can't beat some of the 1000 dollar and over cd players out there it does show that at 400 bucks the ERC can give you a touch of the high end for a reasonable price. Thats a really good thing seeing that there are plenty of people out there that can not budget way more money for a CDP. I have found a new respect for Emotiva as a brand that gives you a lot of product for the money. And some of the Emotiva bashers out there are probably not liking the fact that they can make a good higher end cd player for just a little bit more money than a basic model from sony or pioneer. Keep going with these comparisons because its of great interest to me how products stack up and especially components that are priced at more reasonable levels.

[frenchmon]

If certain wine goes with different food, Then I'm convinced certain music can go with different gear. If sports cars and luxury cars serve a different purpose, then I'm convinced serious audio manufactures have a purpose in mind when they design their gear. Krell, Conrad Johnson, Emotiva , T+A, and Musical Fidelity.... Sports Cars and Luxury Cars, Fine wine and Good Food. Thats how I feel about our hobby. I have to be at work at 4am, its 2:55 am as I type this....I'll try to put my thoughts down later.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Harley, did you see where I compared the ERC-1 to the $499.00 NAD c545? In my listening opinion the ERC-1 was better in every way. The NAD had more bass weight but I felt that actually gave the 545 a bit unbalanced sound. The c545 sound stage was smaller, not nearly as detailed. Although the ERC's bass didn't seem as heavy it still revealed more bass detail, you could more easily depict kick drum from bass string lines and such. As you stated the ERC-1 can give people who are used to mass market in that price a taste of the high end. The X-ray is being blown out at $799.00 and I saw original retail was around $2k but I've heard it quoted higher so I'm not exactly sure on retail. I feel the ERC-1would not have a problem competing with $1k players. I'd like to see some one compare it to the 740/840 or 8003.

At $399.00 you can't really say the ERC-1 has any flaws what so ever. However, when it compares to more expensive players you can more define the ERC-1's sound and I'm not going to say weakness because really it could be a matter of taste. Well, in some instances weakness, on one recording the ERC lightly revealed a Tom Tom roll off to the right but on the X-ray they were revealed with more authority and weight which lent to more realism. I have to say though I really liked the X-ray and it is a good machine at it's original retail and an excellent buy at $799.00. The ERC's personality is more technical and controlled so when going up against units like my CJ DAC or the X-ray which are designed to be more "musical" and "warm" differences will stand out more. Not saying the ERC is, but the sound is more along the lines of what a Krell or Arcam would be. Not as refined as these machines but lack of interpretation as Krell and a thoroughly dissected sound stage as Arcam. In comparing to my CJ DAC which is older technology I prefer the ERC as it is able to distinguish more detail and offer more air around instruments.

[harley .guy07]

Well that is very good information and it might show some of the Emotiva haters out there that Emo gear is the real deal and can compete with higher level components. I think most people automatically write off Emotiva as cheap wantabee high end because they don't charge high prices for it and I strongly believe that there are alot of people ou there that missed out on owning some good stuff and saving some money just to make their friends not give them crap that they run Emotiva stuff. Me personally I don't care if it says Krell or Craig on the front panel good is good and the rest should not matter.

[nightflier]

Mr. P., Frenchmon,

Aside from the sound, what about a comparison of the ergonomics, interfaces, remotes? Both players leave me wanting for different reasons, I'm just wondering how you felt about them, once you had them in the same room.

[LeRoy]

Guys, thanks for sharing comments/interpretations on "everything audio" in this thread and the AR forums.

I'd like to especially thank Mr. Peabody for discovering and reporting the sale prices of the Rotel & B&W gear and then a redirect to A.A. for info on the M.F. X-Ray.

Thanks again,

LeRoy

[frenchmon]

Man what a great time this Sunday evening in Mr Peabodys listening room. After arriving back home Sunday night I could not sleep at all. The last peace of gear we listened to was as if I was in a Lamborghini Sports car...fast, hugging a tight curve at 100mph without missing a beat with pure precision and then speeding up even faster as we crossed the finish line. After that ride was over Mr.Peabody tried to mellow me out with a little blue ray on the Marantz with hot passion with a little skin from Mariah Carey but some how it was too late....the Pure Power of the Krell 500i has forever etched in me its mark of excellence. Hard in your face, close your eyes, and you are there mark. I mean that thing was accurate as could be. But you can serve no soft cookies with that experience. I mean.....in my opinion the Krell with its pure brute force is better suited for classical or some hard hitting blues or rock. We listened to Charles Lloyd "The water is wide" CD on the Krell just as we did on the other gear, but to my ears the Krell was out of balanced...to much hitting going on in the bottom end. It was as if the Krell stood up and said..."thats all you got? No the power spitting Krell wanted no parts of the sissy stuff jazz, it wants some meat and no soft bread. After expressing my concerns to Mr. Peabody, he politely got up and went to his collection of man food or shall I say Krell food and feed it some classical. Man was I like...what the heck! The Krell just like....put out this incredible sound! I mean I closed my eyes and I was there... at a live classical concert. The Krell was not warm at all. But It was as accurate as could be. The unbalanced with the bottom end was gone. The highs where perfect and the mids where just as perfect. It was a very good experience I will never forget. Then Mr. Peabody put on some blues rock and it was just as the classical experience. Clear, transparent very good detail and neutral as can be. I was amazed at what the Krell could do. If I could say anything negative about the Krell is that it did not have a deep sound stage. Every instrument was as if they where all on front and center. I thought it had a wide sound stage but it was not deep at all. At one point Mr. Peabody said "why is the guitar on top of his head. But the accuracy, detail, transparency and power out weigh the negatives. it really did not matter. Close your eyes and the Krell will put you there in the front row if you are not listening to acoustic jazz. I think the Krell is better suited for Classical orchestra's and blues and rock...nothing thats laid back. Only certain wine with certain food...The krell has to have something to sink it teeth into.

The T+A

You want good solid state??? I mean good solid perfection? How about performance? Well you get all that and big bag of chips with this sports car. I remember back in the day when Pontiac use to market the Bonneville SSEI car saying its where luxury meets performance. I mean you had the best of both worlds. If you wanted to go fast, you had it in the big super charged v8 engine with a boost button. IF you wanted to just cruse in luxury, then you had that as well in the plush leather and smooth ride. Well that’s the T+A CDP E Series. Fast, powerful and smooth when you want it to be. After all where do you think that Krell 500i got all that information to snack on? It was the E-series of course. IF you look at it on the T+A web site you really don’t get a feel. But as I entered THE LISTENING ROOM for the first time I noticed this lovely looking player from a distance. It had the look of polished aluminum, sleek and sophistication all over it. But the real magic happened as Mr. Peabody slipped in a Chick Corea CD. The first thing I noticed was transparency. Now we know transparency, but do we know it has different levels? Just when you think it can’t get any better you get smacked upside your head. IF I can say anything bad about the A+T it’s like the Krell , Its not warm. But unlike the Krell, it can play extremely smooth and good with softer music. Sort of the luxury when you want it to be and fast and full of poweras well. It has detail, transparency, and if it was not connected to the Krell, it has a softer side. It had a perfect mate in the Krell when playing Classical and Blues and Rock.

The Emotiva ERC-1 and the Musical Fidelity X-Ray.

You ever wonder what you want to be like when you grow up. The Emotiva does. It wants to be a T+A. I mean the Emo has clarity, transparency, detail, a good sound stage, and great build. I have not heard all players in this price range, but at $399 You won’t find many that have this performance and that will be subjective at best. I like Marantz but I’m not a fan of Cambridge. That’s just me. Do I think a Marantz player sounds as good? I have one that does but it cost $600. I think my Rotel 1055 CDP sounds just as good but at the price tag of $699. I have yet to find a better player at the $300 price. The Emotiva has a very neutral sound, not colored in any way. I thought it was a very balanced machine that revealed great detail. The Thrust was not as good as I thought it should be and the sound stage though it is wide was not as deep as I would have like. But for the price you get a very good player that’s above what you would get from players in that price range.
When we played the same CD on the X-Ray I was kind of taking deep breaths. Before I got there I had been thinking I had over paid for the X-Ray. After all it was a different looking player that comes in two packages…what player has a separated power source? It has a small frame and it’s called an X-Ray. So I was thinking the Emo was going to be all over this thing. Boy was I shocked. The XRay showed more of everything than the Emo and if there was one point that the X-Ray showed up the EMO and the A+T it was in the smoothness and warmth. I mean the X-Ray showed what personality is all about. The Krell has a personality that says I have the brute power to bring out the detail into whatever you connect to me. The A+T’s personality says I’m Mr. transparent and I will reveal the detail in a way that can never be beat. But the XRay says I will reveal detail , transparency, smoothness and warmth like you have never seen. I mean the Emo was missing out because it was just out classed by the T+A at a $3000+ price tag and the XRAY and power supply @ about $2900. So you cant expect the EMO to be in the same class. But what makes the Emo special is that you get a taste of what some better players may sound like…And believe me, if you own the Emo, I suspect it may be a while before you get the upgrade bug. It not only sounds good but its built like a tank…. Oh and for all those who think it has an immature kiddish look, let’s put that to rest as well. I thought it was an attractive player.
While the T+A had a better detail and transparency than the XRay it was not by much, Mr. Peabody and I thought the Thrust from both players where about the same. They both had very good bass. But what we both thought was a big deal was the mids on the X-RAY. I mean while the XRAY was very warm and smooth, it had this unbelievable mid section. I mean I think this is why they call it Musical Fidelity. The synergy between the different instruments has this thing that makes you want to just grove to the music. This is one of the personalities of the XRAY. This was also missing from the Emo and T+A. I did notice this on my system, but it was confirmed even more so on Mr. Peabody’s rig. I would be a miss if I did not put a word in for the Conrad Johnson and the Dynaudio speakers. The CJ mono tubes have this unbelievable warm sound that just seems it was made for the XRAY. I had warm fuzzies all over me while at the same time wanting to just grove with the music. And the Dynaudio’s just deliver a great sound stage as well. I want some Dynaudio’s They are all that and a bag of chips. Mr. Peabody has one great system. He can drive the fast sports car if he wants and he can slow down have a warm sound if he wants…sort of best of both worlds. And did I mention his surround sound rig? He has it all…..I think I might just move in.
I just want to thank you Mr.Peabody for the invite, and I’m sure you and I will share time together listening to music many times to come seeing I only live 30 miles from you. Thank your wife for me for the pizza and soda.

frenchmon

[blackraven]

Thanks for the great review guys! Mr. P., from your review of the ERC-1 it sounds like a great buy. But it does not sound like it has the detail, resoilution or bass of the 840c or even the 740c. The 2 Cambridge Units do not exhibit any roll off and excel at detail, resolution, transparency and tight accurate bass. Some time in the next 6-9 months I'll probably purchase an ERC-1 for my second system or maybe for my daughter.

I would love to see a comparison with the 2 CA units and a Benchmark DAC.

[frenchmon]

Mr. P., Frenchmon,

Aside from the sound, what about a comparison of the ergonomics, interfaces, remotes? Both players leave me wanting for different reasons, I'm just wondering how you felt about them, once you had them in the same room.

Nightflier, sorry. Mr.Peabody can perhaps give you more info here. I was just like a kid in a candy store listening to the different sounding machines....lusting over the Conrad Johnson and falling in love with the Dynaudio's. I cant wait to go back. I think next time its going to be the shootout with the Rotel CDP and Emo and then the third time a shootout with the Marantz CDP and the Emo...you got any CDP's I can take over there? Ill need an excuse to go back the forth time and perhaps the fifth and sixth time .

frenchmon.

[frenchmon]

Thanks for the great review guys! Mr. P., from your review of the ERC-1 it sounds like a great buy. But it does not sound like it has the detail, resoilution or bass of the 840c or even the 740c. The 2 Cambridge Units do not exhibit any roll off and excel at detail, resolution, transparency and tight accurate bass. Some time in the next 6-9 months I'll probably purchase an ERC-1 for my second system or maybe for my daughter.

I would love to see a comparison with the 2 CA units and a Benchmark DAC.

Blackraven...I have not heard the Cambridge, but I had a Dmagic before sending it back. I was told it was the same DAC as in the 740. I connected it to my Rotel and while it gave it a smoother warmer sound, it took away the detail. Thats why I say I not a fan of Cambridge, because its the same dac. But I must be wrong because you say it has detail. Have you heard the Dmagic and if so, is the detail the same?

frenchmon

[blackraven]

Dmagic does not compare well to the 740c from what I have read. I can't say that I have personally heard the DMagic, but just look at the difference in cost. 740c=$1k, weighs about 16lb's, the dmagic is $399. There's a lot more too it then just a DAC.

[Mr Peabody]

LeRoy, you are welcome.

NF, I like the ergonomics of the ERC-1, on the face the buttons are large and spread out, very simple. The remote is large, guessing 7" long by 3" wide, aluminum and hefty. The remote has little rubber feet for laying flat. The buttons on top are set up nicely. The same diamond array for play/pause, stop, two arrows for left and two for right, one skips and entire track and the other is a 3 speed audible FF. The ERC provides two sets of analog outputs, a set of XLR and one each coaxial and optical digital. The ERC features a detachable power cord.

The X-ray has smaller than typical chasis but there are two of them one power supply and one the player. There are buttons on left and right of the tray, small but not difficult to use and once you learn what they are it's fine. Frenchmon forgot the remote so I'll defer to him for that and further comment. The units are solidly built.

If you are alright with a warm musical presentation the X-ray really is the better sounding player.

I wish now Frenchmon had brought the Rotel because I'm doubting it's better than the ERC. I think I appreciate the ERC's ability a bit more than Frenchmon but the difference between it and the MF was so drastic due to different presentation styles and the MF's overall superior ability. You know what they say about first impressions.

Frenchmon, you are welcome and I too look forward to getting together again. In my AR profile the email link is on so send me your info you forgot to leave last night. And try to get some sleep :)

[harley .guy07]

I would love to see a total shootout with as many players at the different price points. There are so many people from different prospectives on this sight and these people have different budgets and preferences that would make this shootout a great thing. Me myself I probably would be more interested in the players at or under the 1000 dollar price point right now seeing that the rest of my system needs to be upgraded before I could probably benifit from a 3000 dollar unit so I would probably start at the speakers and work my way to the preamp and possibly the amp as well. For my system the way it is right now I would probably be best with the Emo player but hear within the next year I hope to change my system to a upper level so maybe some day I can have something to the level that everyone references Mr. Peabody's system is. As for now I can dream can't I

[frenchmon]

Dmagic does not compare well to the 740c from what I have read. I can't say that I have personally heard the DMagic, but just look at the difference in cost. 740c=$1k, weighs about 16lb's, the dmagic is $399. There's a lot more too it then just a DAC.

Glad to hear that. Thanks Black Raven. Thinking back, when I lived in North Carolina, they had this Audio Chain store named Tweeters. They had a Cambridge 540a I think, paired with Focal Books shelves. and a 640 paired with Martin Logans. I do remember the Logans and 640 made a good pair.

[Mr Peabody]

I forgot to mention when Frenchmon was talking about the Classical music it was a various artist disc on the Reference label, I think it's called Organ & Brass. There's several good tracks but one particular I like to play for people on the krell which has a crescendo that just has to be heard to be believed, Krell is able to deliver it in perfect control while hitting like a sledge hammer. It's the same track I played for Bobsticks.

Harley, once you decide which direction. meaning type of presentation you want to achieve then watching for good deals on close outs or used gear I'm sure you will reach your goal.

[frenchmon]

I would love to see a total shootout with as many players at the different price points. There are so many people from different prospectives on this sight and these people have different budgets and preferences that would make this shootout a great thing. Me myself I probably would be more interested in the players at or under the 1000 dollar price point right now seeing that the rest of my system needs to be upgraded before I could probably benifit from a 3000 dollar unit so I would probably start at the speakers and work my way to the preamp and possibly the amp as well. For my system the way it is right now I would probably be best with the Emo player but hear within the next year I hope to change my system to a upper level so maybe some day I can have something to the level that everyone references Mr. Peabody's system is. As for now I can dream can't I

harley, the XRAY is being discontinued and can be had at $799. Its a great bargan and a great way to upgrade.

Listening to the XRAY on Mr.Peabodys system revealed to me that I really need to get new speakers...some floor standers and perhaps a better warmer amp. Mr. Peabodys system is just awesome. But I already have the CDP at a discounted price. So I can build from there. You can get the XRAY at audioadvisor and keep it for thirty days before you send it back if you dont like it. But its really a great bargan at $799.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

Mr.Peabody what was the name of the Chic Corea CD. Id like to pick that one up.

frenchmon

[harley .guy07]

harley, the XRAY is being discontinued and can be had at $799. Its a great bargan and a great way to upgrade.

Listening to the XRAY on Mr.Peabodys system revealed to me that I really need to get new speakers...some floor standers and perhaps a better warmer amp. Mr. Peabodys system is just awesome. But I already have the CDP at a discounted price. So I can build from there. You can get the XRAY at audioadvisor and keep it for thirty days before you send it back if you dont like it. But its really a great bargan at $799.

frenchmon

thinks for the info and well certainly take it as good advise from people who have actually heard the difference. And yes when I do upgrade components I do want to be happy with them for years and not have to upgrade do to the fact that I did not spend a little bit more for a better component. I do have other areas of my system that I think need attention first before buying a high end cdp. I am looking at better main speakers,getting a dedicated 2 channel preamp with theater bypass so I can get the full benifit from seperates. Then I can start looking at source components for improvment. If you do not agree with my plan of action feel free to tell me as I am very open for options

[frenchmon]

thinks for the info and well certainly take it as good advise from people who have actually heard the difference. And yes when I do upgrade components I do want to be happy with them for years and not have to upgrade do to the fact that I did not spend a little bit more for a better component. I do have other areas of my system that I think need attention first before buying a high end cdp. I am looking at better main speakers,getting a dedicated 2 channel preamp with theater bypass so I can get the full benifit from seperates. Then I can start looking at source components for improvment. If you do not agree with my plan of action feel free to tell me as I am very open for options

Oh no...you have a idea of the path you want to take and thats a good thing. I too am rethinking some things after being over at Mr. Peabody;s listening room. Man I want Dynaudio but the Dynaudio speakers are really expensive. I also like the Paradigm Studio series..... I need a deal. Take a look at these....tell me what you think. They sure have a nice price tag

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=73&products_id=11636


Also Mr. Peabody has a nice 200 watt per channel ADCOM amp he is willing to sell at a bargan if you are interested.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Chick Corea
Originations
Chick Corea + Origin
Stretch Records scd9034-2
Looks to be a collection of songs he did with his band Origin

Harley, that is a good way to go. When the Krell integrated was in my main system that is what I did. I used the Krell as a slave to drive the fronts via the "Theater Through" bypass just hooking the preamp L/R into the Krell. My 2-channel stuff was hooked to the Krell while video to the processor.

[LeRoy]

Oh no...you have a idea of the path you want to take and thats a good thing. I too am rethinking some things after being over at Mr. Peabody;s listening room. Man I want Dynaudio but the Dynaudio speakers are really expensive. I also like the Paradigm Studio series..... I need a deal. Take a look at these....tell me what you think. They sure have a nice price tag

http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=73&products_id=11636


Also Mr. Peabody has a nice 200 watt per channel ADCOM amp he is willing to sell at a bargan if you are interested.

frenchmon

Frenchmon,

Dynaudio has some awesome sounding speakers and I know we all have our budgets to help us decide which speaker is the right one....but...besides the Dynaudio speakers you may want to investigate speakers from Reference 3A and also speakers from Mordaunt-Short. Try to find a dealer near you who carries these lines and give them a good listen--- you can't go wrong with a Dyn, R3A, or M.S.

Take care and thanks for you input on this thread too.

LeRoy

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, how about something like this:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1260282130&/Dynaudio-Audience-72-

There was another pair on there as well.

I love these: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1258420907&/Dynaudio-Focus-110-Rosewood

Now here's a deal if you can live with the reason they are a 6: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1260485445&/Dynaudio-Contour-1.3-MkI-aston

There were another pair of the 110's for $995.00 and a pair of Excite at $700.00. I've yet to hear the Excite series to comment but I've heard they are very similar to the Audience they just have specially designed drivers to be easier on lower powered amps and ample powered receivers.

[harley .guy07]

I was hoping I was thinking the right way about which path to take with my system since it has been a while since upgrading stuff. Frenchmon there are several people on this forum that run those speakers and love them. I have read reviews saying that they are very good especially for the price, and they can be driven by a wide range of amps or at least from what I have read. Yeah I have been looking at preamps and speakers myself. I am looking real hard at usher speakers since they seem to have the sound that I am looking for from my system. As far as preamps I have not made a firm choice on this. The Emotiva preamp is real enexpensive and has the simple features and build quality I am looking for and the magazine reviews I have read on it online seem to be real positive. But I don't want to sell myself short just to save a few bucks if I could find a real good preamp with the theater bypass function at a good price. A Krell would be great since I do like their clean accurate output. Any other preamps with the theater bypass feature? I have not seen any others at this point. then after those things I could start looking at CDP's with more confidence.

[Mr Peabody]

Conrad Johnson feature the theater bypass so I would also bet McCormack does as well. Several brands offer the bypass but it may be called by a different name. CJ sounds great for 2-channel but to be honest it probably wouldn't blend sonically with whatever you used for an HT processor. I have to get to bed, I'll try to find more preamps later.

[LeRoy]

I was hoping I was thinking the right way about which path to take with my system since it has been a while since upgrading stuff. Frenchmon there are several people on this forum that run those speakers and love them. I have read reviews saying that they are very good especially for the price, and they can be driven by a wide range of amps or at least from what I have read. Yeah I have been looking at preamps and speakers myself. I am looking real hard at usher speakers since they seem to have the sound that I am looking for from my system. As far as preamps I have not made a firm choice on this. The Emotiva preamp is real enexpensive and has the simple features and build quality I am looking for and the magazine reviews I have read on it online seem to be real positive. But I don't want to sell myself short just to save a few bucks if I could find a real good preamp with the theater bypass function at a good price. A Krell would be great since I do like their clean accurate output. Any other preamps with the theater bypass feature? I have not seen any others at this point. then after those things I could start looking at CDP's with more confidence.

Just an fyi regarding Usher speakers.....Usher and D'Apolitto have parted ways and D'Apolitto is now working for Revel. My local Usher dealer is trying to wash his hands of the Usher line as the says the Usher still looks great but the SQ has now taken a dive. So, if you are going for the Usher it's wiser to get a used model in great condition.

LeRoy

[frenchmon]

delete

[harley .guy07]

Just an fyi regarding Usher speakers.....Usher and D'Apolitto have parted ways and D'Apolitto is now working for Revel. My local Usher dealer is trying to wash his hands of the Usher line as the says the Usher still looks great but the SQ has now taken a dive. So, if you are going for the Usher it's wiser to get a used model in great condition.

LeRoy

Thats my plan from the begining is to find them used. The fact that they pulled most of their models from the US kind of told me something was going on so I will be looking at used Ushers or possibly building some custom speakers using usher drivers since I have built and modified several speakers and know crossover and cabinet design. I hope their drivers remain the same because their drivers are of really good quality.

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, how about something like this:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1260282130&/Dynaudio-Audience-72-

There was another pair on there as well.

I love these: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1258420907&/Dynaudio-Focus-110-Rosewood

Now here's a deal if you can live with the reason they are a 6: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1260485445&/Dynaudio-Contour-1.3-MkI-aston

There were another pair of the 110's for $995.00 and a pair of Excite at $700.00. I've yet to hear the Excite series to comment but I've heard they are very similar to the Audience they just have specially designed drivers to be easier on lower powered amps and ample powered receivers.

Mr.Peabody...I have stand mount speakers. I want floorstanders. The Catons are a ver good speakers that are just a tad brighter than Dynaudio Focus 140's. But listening to your towers, I've decided to either get some Dynaudio's , Canton, or Paradigm Studio's.

Heres my Canton's..

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1447/pict0647.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6090/pict0514.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2935/pict0544q.jpg

[harley .guy07]

My opinion if you like the Dynaudio's is stay with them or the cantons. the Paradigms are very good but I do own Paradigm and had to do several modifications to them to tame them on the brightness. They are brighter speakers by the design. the higher end reference series or signature series are the only ones I would take seriously since I had to do major mods to mine to make them what they are. Just my 2 cents

[frenchmon]

My opinion if you like the Dynaudio's is stay with them or the cantons. the Paradigms are very good but I do own Paradigm and had to do several modifications to them to tame them on the brightness. They are brighter speakers by the design. the higher end reference series or signature series are the only ones I would take seriously since I had to do major mods to mine to make them what they are. Just my 2 cents

Harley...I've read where many have claimed Paadigm as being bright. I dont happen to think the are bright at all. I bought Paradigm Monitor 7v3 back in 2002 and they are still going very good.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7396/pict0477.th.jpg (http://img113.imageshack.us/i/pict0477.jpg/)


frenchmon

[harley .guy07]

Well I think when they came out with the v3 version they changed the tweeter to a much better unit so the ones you have probably don't have the bright sounding character that mine did. That is why I modified them. the newer signature series might not be too bright as well. I was just going off of what I have heard from selling Paradigm years ago.

[frenchmon]

If you can, pick up a copy of the latest issue of Stereophile Magazine or just go to Barnes&Noble and read a copy. Kal Rubinson does a nice review on the New Studio v5's. He even mentions how some of the earlier Studio's has a brighter tweet. He says the new models are not bright at all. I think one of the local stores here in St. Louis has them on display. I'll have to go over and listen to them. So what are you listening to right now? I've been listening to music for about 5 hour straight now and now have Paul Desmond playing...sounding good.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon & I met again, he brought his Rotel 1090 preamp and 1055 CDP. We put the 1055 in the main CJ system for a bit. I could tell it wasn't as detailed as the T+A but didn't really expect it too. It was pleasant but not as sluggish as some of the Rotel gear I've heard. We hooked up the 1090 to my Adcom gfa-5500. I used Transparent entry Wave speaker connects. Frenchmon brought Monoprice cables which we soon disposed of in favor of better BJC, see my thread in the "Cables" forum.

The 1090 did not seem overly laid back and had very good synergy with both my 5500 and ERC-1. The ERC-1 won a unanimous decision over the 1055. The 1055 is an older model but retailed aroundd $699.00. The ERC-1 had better detail and sound stage. The match up was over quickly so we settled back to do some listening. The 5500 drove my
t2.5's to loud levels without making the distortion light come on. However, I placed my ERC on top of it and caused the heat light to come on. I didn't think it would get that hot in the open but I guess the Dyn's sucked the current out of it. I was pretty impressed with how good the 1090/5500 and ERC-1 sounded as a system. And, indeed, Frenchmon has been vendicated, the 1090 turned out to be a good preamp. Really good considering it's original retail. I don't know which component to contribute it to but the ERC displayed better than usual bass response with the 1090/5500. If any one was putting together a budget system with proven synergy the above mentioned would be it. I have to give the 5500 it's props for driving the Dyn's so well and matched with a good preamp like the 1090 sounding better than an amp in it's original price ought to.

My Audio Note 1.1x was sitting around so I hooked it up to the ERC's digital out to see how it sounded in the system. The 1.1x for the most part was better as it should be for the much more expense. The ERC-1 I preferred when Frenchmon asked to hear my Chick Corea and I accidently on purpose dropped in Pantera. The ERC's speed and neutrality is appreciated on Rock. When we finally did listen to Chick I thought the 1.1x made vibes and the stand up bass sound much more natural.

[Ajani]

If certain wine goes with different food, Then I'm convinced certain music can go with different gear. If sports cars and luxury cars serve a different purpose, then I'm convinced serious audio manufactures have a purpose in mind when they design their gear. Krell, Conrad Johnson, Emotiva , T+A, and Musical Fidelity.... Sports Cars and Luxury Cars, Fine wine and Good Food. Thats how I feel about our hobby.

I 100% agree. Audio Manufacturers have different sonic and design priorities. Maybe the focus is dynamic range or PRAT or detail retrieval or neutrality or midrange sweetness, etc...

Since I have varied tastes in music I find that I can appreciate many different priorities, depending on what kind of music I listen to... I can enjoy a 200 watt Rotel Amp/pre combo and also a 50 watt Musical Fidelity integrated equally... despite both sounding very different...

It does make upgrading a challenge, since I need to pick a priority and buy based on that...

[Ajani]

Very Good Thread!!! Thanks to Mr Peabody and Frenchmon for taking the time to share their thoughts with us... I love hearing the experiences of Forum members...

Mr Peabody, I'm glad you got to hear some of the Rotel 10 series gear... as Rotel has moved for a far more lively sound that what you're used to from them... I believe the 15 series is even more exciting... Also, it's good to hear your opinions on affordable CD players in comparison to some of the high quality gear you own... it helps give us all some additional insight...

[frenchmon]

IF any one is looking for a good midfi system the Adcom gfa 5500 is listed at audiogon at $400 and the Rotel RC 1090 at $525. The ERC-1 can be had at new at $399. For a little over $1300 some one could have a great system. Thats a bargan for the system.

frenchmon