Obama gets Nobel Peace Prize

[3LB]

Just to show how far behind I am with regards to public officials, I read today that Obama has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...for what exactly I have no clue.

I know why other sitting Presidents have won it. I know why they give out the Peace Prize...but I have no idea why they gave it to Obama...what major strides has he made in his foreign policies that would warrant such a distinction? I know he's made a lot of speeches and promises during his campaign...hell, the guy has only been in office 9 months. Does a guy only have to promise change, or should he have to deliver first? So far he's maintained status quo, home and abroad.

Hell, if all it took were words, Both Bushes would have one of these things.

What am I missing?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Just to show how far behind I am with regards to public officials, I read today that Obama has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...for what exactly I have no clue.

I know why other sitting Presidents have won it. I know why they give out the Peace Prize...but I have no idea why they gave it to Obama...what major strides has he made in his foreign policies that would warrant such a distinction? I know he's made a lot of speeches and promises during his campaign...hell, the guy has only been in office 9 months. Does a guy only have to promise change, or should he have to deliver first? So far he's maintained status quo, home and abroad.

Hell, if all it took were words, Both Bushes would have one of these things.

What am I missing?

No sorry, Neither Bushes would have qualified.

Here is their official answer as to why:

Members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee said their choice could be seen as an early vote of confidence in Obama intended to build global support for his policies. They lauded the change in global mood wrought by Obama's calls for peace and cooperation, and praised his pledges to reduce the world stock of nuclear arms, ease American conflicts with Muslim nations and strengthen the U.S. role in combating climate change.


This is why neither of the Bushes would win.

Glad to see your joy in him winning the award.....

I would challenge folks to not second guess the committee, and just be happy he won. Unless your a hater........

[Feanor]

Just to show how far behind I am with regards to public officials, I read today that Obama has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...for what exactly I have no clue.

I know why other sitting Presidents have won it. I know why they give out the Peace Prize...but I have no idea why they gave it to Obama...what major strides has he made in his foreign policies that would warrant such a distinction? I know he's made a lot of speeches and promises during his campaign...hell, the guy has only been in office 9 months. Does a guy only have to promise change, or should he have to deliver first? So far he's maintained status quo, home and abroad.

Hell, if all it took were words, Both Bushes would have one of these things.

What am I missing?

A Nobel prize committee member answered that question: Obama got it to encourage willingness to talk to anyone, or as Obama put it, "to shank the hands of those who will unclench their fists", (or whatever exact words). This might be just rhetoric but it is a far cry from Bush/Cheney rhetoric.

As Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Energy_Agency) (IAEA), and a Peace Prize winner himself, said this morning on CNN, in effect, "We are making progress with Iran after six wasted years".

[3LB]

OK, he's an American President...so?

I find it odd that he's been given an award it usually takes years of achievement to recieve otherwise. Not saying anything about Obama's potential, just making the observation that giving away an award based on what someone says their gonna do seems like a cheapening of said award. I didn't mean to imply either Bush did anything to deseve a Peace Prize, but both made flowery speeches using words like peace, cooperation, et el, during their campaigns. When Carter was recognized, he had already had the leaders of Israel and Egypt sitting at the same table, signing treaties, plus his work in the SALT II treaty.

Hell, why didn't Nixon get Nobel Prize for his foreign policies, based on what might be considered positive, like opening talks with China, or the SALT 1 treaty. Sure, I know about Nixon etc, but I think you get the point. These are actual, tangible accomplishments.

I'll repeat, this is not an indictment on Obama's ability or potential. It just seems a tad premature...its like giving the Jonas Brothers a lifetime achievment Grammy. I've never heard of rewarding potential.

[Feanor]

OK, he's an American President...so?

I find it odd that he's been given an award it usually takes years of achievement to recieve otherwise. Not saying anything about Obama's potential, just making the observation that giving away an award based on what someone says their gonna do seems like a cheapening of said award. I didn't mean to imply either Bush did anything to deseve a Peace Prize, but both made flowery speeches using words like peace, cooperation, et el, during their campaigns. When Carter was recognized, he had already had the leaders of Israel and Egypt sitting at the same table, signing treaties, plus his work in the SALT II treaty.

Hell, why didn't Nixon get Nobel Prize for his foreign policies, based on what might be considered positive, like opening talks with China, or the SALT 1 treaty. Sure, I know about Nixon etc, but I think you get the point. These are actual, tangible accomplishments.

I'll repeat, this is not an indictment on Obama's ability or potential. It just seems a tad premature...its like giving the Jonas Brothers a lifetime achievment Grammy. I've never heard of rewarding potential.

Everything you say is quite true.

I think maybe the Prize Committee just what to signal the world how happy they are for the change in attitude of the U.S. Administration, and encourage the US and every nation go forward with that attitude.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Everything you say is quite true.

I think maybe the Prize Committee just what to signal the world how happy they are for the change in attitude of the U.S. Administration, and encourage the US and every nation go forward with that attitude.

Bingo!

Since it the committee choice, what right does anyone have to question it? They can award it for whatever reason they choose, whether its an accomplishment, or a change in world wide goodwill because of his efforts.

The haters (Republicans), and the folks that are not getting things out of him they want (Palestinians and Iran) are of course going to balk at his getting the award.

[3LB]

Well, I haven't voted a party line in decades, and I didn't vote for a single republican the last two elections, nor do I hate Obama. It is 'their' award and they can award it to whomever they choose (Yasser Arafat).



They lauded the change in global mood wrought by Obama's calls for peace and cooperation, and praised his pledges to reduce the world stock of nuclear arms, ease American conflicts with Muslim nations



So I guess almost counts in horseshoes, hand-grenades, and Nobel Prizes. Certainly, Obama's election might usher in an era of improved global perception of the U.S. Maybe this award may eventually pan out, who knows. I wonder why they took decades to recognize Jimmy Carter. And in hindsight, I'll bet they're really glad they never awarded such a thing to the likes of a Nixon or Clinton. Luckily for Carter, he never did anything to discredit himself months after taking office (reletively speaking), or decades after leaving office.


Sounds like the committee has taken up our country's favorite passtime...cult of celebrity.
-------------------------

"We live in a soceity where the idea of what you are is more important than you actually being that" - Branford Marsallis

[nightflier]

Well, yes, but the nominations were during Obama's first week in office. If we're asking today (after 9 months), if this was premature, then certainly a week after being elected is a bit presumptuous all around. This is not a critique of what he has done domestically, and I'm sure he may do much more, but let's be honest, this prize wasn't earned.

Now perhaps it's based on his senatorial record (certainly one of peace), but that isn't being mentioned anywhere. If I where Obama, I would politely refuse the award. Yes it would ruffle some feathers, but let's be honest, here, the War in Iraq is exactly the same, and the war in Afghanistan has been significantly escalated. He hasn't done much if anything to bring peace to Senegal, Somalia-Ethiopia-Eritrea, Sudan, Pakistan, Colombia, the Maghreb, Nigeria, India, and a host of other smaller conflicts. I'll grant that he defused the political stand-off with Iran, certainly more than a McCain-Palin presidency would have, thank god, but that's not enough in my book. And his flip-flopping on Honduras-Zelaya is an affront to peace on so many levels that it's shame.

Yes, he inherited a mess from 8 miserable & failed years of Dubya-Cheney, but so far he's done zilch to alleviate the two worst examples of that failure: Iraq & Afghanistan. Yes, he's got great potential, but I completely agree with the critique that the award was given prematurely. This is the Nobel Peace prize, for pete's sake, and almost every conflict around the globe has escalated since he took office. Maybe he should have received another award, but not the Nobel Peace prize, at least not yet. If he pulls another Camp David type of accord, then we can revisit this....

[3LB]

I hope that they come to fruition in the future

Oh certainly. I'm not one of those who'll wish for failure at every turn for the sake of party goals (talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face). Like I said above, I've never heard of rewarding potential before, in any endeavor. As has already been pointed out, this award was based on moods and pledges (the committee's words). So there were no better nominees - no one who has spent more than a few months towards the goal of world peace?

[nightflier]

This was funny:
__________________

Congratulations President Obama on the Nobel Peace Prize -- Now Please Earn it!
Friday, October 9th, 2009

Dear President Obama,

How outstanding that you've been recognized today as a man of peace. Your swift, early pronouncements -- you will close Guantanamo, you will bring the troops home from Iraq, you want a nuclear weapon-free world, you admitted to the Iranians that we overthrew their democratically-elected president in 1953, you made that great speech to the Islamic world in Cairo, you've eliminated that useless term "The War on Terror," you've put an end to torture -- these have all made us and the rest of the world feel a bit more safe considering the disaster of the past eight years. In eight months you have done an about face and taken this country in a much more sane direction.

But...

The irony that you have been awarded this prize on the 2nd day of the ninth year of our War in Afghanistan is not lost on anyone. You are truly at a crossroads now. You can listen to the generals and expand the war (only to result in a far-too-predictable defeat) or you can declare Bush's Wars over, and bring all the troops home. Now. That's what a true man of peace would do.

There is nothing wrong with you doing what the last guy failed to do -- capture the man or men responsible for the mass murder of 3,000 people on 9/11. BUT YOU CANNOT DO THAT WITH TANKS AND TROOPS. You are pursuing a criminal, not an army. You do not use a stick of dynamite to get rid of a mouse.

The Taliban is another matter. That is a problem for the people of Afghanistan to resolve -- just as we did in 1776, the French did in 1789, the Cubans did in 1959, the Nicaraguans did in 1979 and the people of East Berlin did in 1989. One thing is certain through all revolutions by people who wish to be free -- they ultimately have to bring about that freedom themselves. Others can be supportive, but freedom can not be delivered from the front seat of someone else's Humvee.

You have to end our involvement in Afghanistan now. If you don't, you'll have no choice but to return the prize to Oslo.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com

P.S. Your opposition has spent the morning attacking you for bringing such good will to this country. Why do they hate America so much? I get the feeling that if you found the cure for cancer this afternoon they'd be denouncing you for destroying free enterprise because cancer centers would have to close. There are those who say you've done nothing yet to deserve this award. As far as I'm concerned, the very fact that you've offered to walk into the minefield of hate and try to undo the irreparable damage the last president did is not only appreciated by me and millions of others, it is also an act of true bravery. That's why you got the prize. The whole world is depending on the U.S. -- and you -- to literally save this planet. Let's not let them down.

[ForeverAutumn]

In five years I fully intend to find a cure for something. Can I have my Nobel now?

[JohnMichael]

I would like to congratulate President Obama.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Wow, our President wins a prestigus award, and we have Americans who doubt he deserves it. Well, I guess everyone has their opinion, but I am glad they are not my friends or supporters. What a damn shame.....

[markw]

I'll bet Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson are turning over in their graves. They actually had to earn this prize, not just give good speeches and head a cult of personality.

[jvc]

You can call me a hater, because I am! He's done absolutely nothing to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. He's about made the dollar worthless, by printing billions of dollars, with nothing to back it up. He's trying to turn us into a socialist country. He's done nothing worthwhile since getting in office! (I'm a registered Democrat too)

Don't try and say I'm a racist either. I don't hate him because he's black. I don't trust him, and he's not showing me any reasons to change my opinion of him. I would have voted for Andrew Young or Condoleezza Rice, but not him. The polls are showing that public opinion is changing about him, now that he's in office. People are finding out that they were wrong about him, and wishing they had voted different. Well, you wanted change. You certainly got it! But not all change is good................

[JohnMichael]

Wow, our President wins a prestigus award, and we have Americans who doubt he deserves it. Well, I guess everyone has their opinion, but I am glad they are not my friends or supporters. What a damn shame.....



I agree completely. Is it my imagination but I hear few people addressing him as President Obama? They speak of Obama or Barack Obama but rarely call him President. I have had hate and prejudice directed at me for much of my life. This enables me to recognize it when it is directed at others. Believe me their is more hate and prejudice in this country then most are willing to admit. Blessed be the peacemakers.

[markw]

I agree completely. Is it my imagination but I hear few people addressing him as President Obama? They speak of Obama or Barack Obama but rarely call him President. I have had hate and prejudice directed at me for much of my life. This enables me to recognize it when it is directed at others. Believe me their is more hate and prejudice in this country then most are willing to admit. Blessed be the peacemakers.You could say the same ting about some of his supporters as well.

I can't ever recall "President" Bush's detractors using his title either. It was always just "Bush", or "Boosh" or something equally flattering.

[nightflier]

MarkW,

Wasn't Woodrow Wilson the one who said that Birth of a Nation was a "lightrod of history-making, or some such nonsense?" And didn't Teddy Roosevelt kill off 1/4 of the male Philippino population? Hardly great peace-makers, if you ask me. Ironic you should mention them as bar-setters.

JM, I understand your comment and I too have not often used "President Obama" in my posts, although that was probably more for brevity than prejudice. For the record, I never referred to Dubya as president either, after all, he was never elected.

Bottom line, President Obama hasn't done anything near enough to earn a Nobel Peace prize, according to a number of polls already. I'll venture to say that this is the overwhelming sentiment in the US, right now. I really like the man, I really do, but I have to call a spade a spade, here.

[markw]

MarkW,

Wasn't Woodrow Wilson the one who said that Birth of a Nation was a "lightrod of history-making, or some such nonsense?" And didn't Teddy Roosevelt kill off 1/4 of the male Philippino population? Hardly great peace-makers, if you ask me. Ironic you should mention them as bar-setters.You're as capable of reading up on what they did as I am. And, you can minimize their accomplishments and add whatever revisionist history you wish, but it doesn't change the fact thet they earned their nomination and award.


JM, I understand your comment and I too have not often used "President Obama" in my posts, although that was probably more for brevity than prejudice. For the record, I never referred to Dubya as president either, after all, he was never elected.Ah, I see you've now reconsidered your positions on the use of titles. As such. I'll reconsider mine when referencing the obamassiah.


Bottom line, President Obama hasn't done anything near enough to earn a Nobel Peace prize, according to a number of polls already. I'll venture to say that this is the overwhelming sentiment in the US, right now. I really like the man, I really do, but I have to call a spade a spade, here.That sounds like a thinly veiled racist remark to me. Did you giggle when you wrote that?

[3LB]

Is it my imagination but I hear few people addressing him as President Obama? They speak of Obama or Barack Obama but rarely call him President.
Oh no...I was referring to that other Obama guy...:rolleyes:


Quite common that people in the U.S. eschew titles when addressing public figures. I mentioned a slew of ex-Preses above, who by rights still carriers the title President. I rarely ever heard anyone refer to the last three or four sitting presidents by their title.

Perhaps you are tad sensative in the area of discrimination. Like most have said, its a bit premature to give Obama a Nobel Prize when his goals have yet to come to fruition. May he prove us all short-sighted.

[JohnMichael]

MarkW,

I really like the man, I really do, but I have to call a spade a spade, here.



MarkW I was also troubled by the duality of that phrase. Yes there are the references to calling a black person a spade. There is also calling something as it is. My Krell is a Krell. If a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. I have to call a shovel a shovel. I am not sure if the prejudice came from saying the phrase or asking if you giggled while using it.

[3LB]

I'll bet Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson are turning over in their graves. They actually had to earn this prize, not just give good speeches and head a cult of personality.Well, I mentioned Carter above...the man has been one of the most civically active ex-presidents that I can remember. He was active in middle-east peace accords and nuclear arms limitation talks in an era when such things seemed foolhardy or even pointless (in this country). He appointed many minorities to high positions during hi stenure as Governor of Georgia and as pres. He continues to work as a public figure both home and abroad. He's been a de facto embassador over the last two decades.

He was finally awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, which the committee basically did to reognize a lifetime commitment to civil rights, international peace, and economic development both domestic and abroad. Most people veiw his presidency as a failure because of the Iran-hostage crisis, turning over the Panama Canal, giving amnesty to draft dodgers, printing billions of dollars during a recession...his domestic policies did suck, but I'm sure the Nobel committee doesn't take such things into consideration. From a world perspective, the dude made great strides.

[JohnMichael]

Oh no...I was referring to that other Obama guy...:rolleyes:


Perhaps you are tad sensative in the area of discrimination.





Yes I am a little more than a tad sensitive to discrimination. Do you remember during his travels during the primaries when he was cheered by countries that used to protest against people from the US. He is willing to talk and find solutions that benefit others instead of being a war lord like that last President. I enjoy respecting the office and the man holding it once again.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You can call me a hater, because I am! He's done absolutely nothing to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. He's about made the dollar worthless, by printing billions of dollars, with nothing to back it up. He's trying to turn us into a socialist country. He's done nothing worthwhile since getting in office! (I'm a registered Democrat too)

Oh boy, either you have rocks in your head, or just air. Sorry, but the dollar was worthless before he took office. The previous President printed more worthless money by far than the current one. The bailout was a continuation of the previous President's actions. If you call keeping our banking system from failing socialism, then you don't know what socialism is. If you call saving the automobile industry socialist, then you obviously support having twice as many people out of work as we have now. He cannot turn poor policies dated back to the Reagan years (trickle down economics) in nine months, and anyone expecting him to do so is....well could I use the words stupid?


Don't try and say I'm a racist either. I don't hate him because he's black. I don't trust him, and he's not showing me any reasons to change my opinion of him. I would have voted for Andrew Young or Condoleezza Rice, but not him. The polls are showing that public opinion is changing about him, now that he's in office. People are finding out that they were wrong about him, and wishing they had voted different. Well, you wanted change. You certainly got it! But not all change is good................

Wow, Condo? She had 8 years to do something, and she was as miserable a failure as her boss. During her tenure, our relationship and reputation with the world turn to ****. The students at Stanford where my son used to go have sure given her a earful on what she has done. Andrew Young? Jimmy Carter had to ask him to resign after he secretly met with leaders of the PLO - what was considered a terrorist group. I am sure the Jews in Israel love him for saying they were..how do I want to say this.... stubborn and intransigent. This is something you say in private, not on meet the press on Sunday morning. The most notable thing he has done is played a leading role in advancing a settlement in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo. Mugabe a known racist and hater of white people, killed thousands of gays, took land from white landowners without paying them for it, and has interfered with national democratic elections from day one. Oooooooo...great company Mr. Young kept.


You sure can tell alot about a person based on who they support.


If you don't see...no..if you cannot see that this world thinks differently about America because of the way this President has conducted himself on the world stage, that is your business. But obviously those five committee members see things quite differently, and this is their award and they can chose to give it to whomever they want, and for whatever reason they want. You don't have a say, except your opinion. He accepted the award, so the hate is irrelevant and a waste of time.

A democrat knocking down another democrat. This is why democrats where in the minority for so long. Nine months, and he is supposed to fix every problem in the world. Good grief......

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yes I am a little more than a tad focking sensitive to discrimination. Do you remember during his travels during the primaries when he was cheered by countries that used to protest against people from the US. He is willing to talk and find solutions that benefit others instead of being a war lord like that last President. I enjoy respecting the office and the man holding it once again.

Some of us Americans think we are the world. So they don't care that world opinion has changed when it comes to how America is perceived globally. It is all about how they feel. Such a small box to live in.....

[blackraven]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the President, but wtf? Nominations for the prize were done back in Feb. 2009. He was in office for 1 month. I guess I need to look into the reason he won.

[nightflier]

A spade a spade - I have been using that phrase for years and never thought of it as racist. If it is, then I'll stop using it. But I did a little research and found this:

"It’s based on a mistranslation by the Dutch Renaissance scholar Desiderius Erasmus [ca. 1466 - 1536]. In Greek, skaphis is a shovel or spade, and skaphos is a boat, a skiff. He chose the wrong word, and “to call a spade a spade” came into being. In 1539, John Tavener brought Erasmus’ Latin version into English in his Garden of Wysdome: “Whiche call . . . a mattok nothing els but a mattok, and a spade a spade.” A mattock, by the way, is a digging tool with a flat blade set at right angles to the handle. So Tavener was advancing the meaning of the proverb to show that even allied objects should be carefully distinguished. After that, the saying was off and running, and it was used by dozens of writers, eventually dooming it to cliché status.

Spade, the offensive racist term referring to a black person, probably derived from the color of the ace of spades in a deck of cards, and it didn’t attain this meaning until 1928. So only someone who believes that Nostradamus was on top of his game would believe that a phrase in use for almost 2,000 years miraculously foretold an obnoxious slang term of the early 20th century."

In any case, I'm sorry if it was interpreted as racist. It certainly wasn't meant as such and the fact that I was referring to Obama was a very unfortunate coincidence. I'm pretty sure I've used it elsewhere on this forum a number of times in my other discussions and never thought of it as racist. Anyhow, considering I am of Latin American descent and not exactly of the lightest persuasion, I am amazed that I put myself in that position. If I offended anyone else, know that I also offended myself in the process and I am ashamed of having done so. I'll certainly not use the phrase anymore.

__________________________

Now MarkW, there is nothing revisionist about what I pointed out regarding those presidents. Wilson did say about Birth of a Nation that it was "like writing history with lightning. And [his] only regret is that it is all so terribly true" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation). Likewise, the worst cimes against the people of the Philippines occured during Roosevelt's presidency. There are many websites that describe the genocide on the island of Samar, the deplorable conditions in American concentration camps, the "coonhunts", and the horrid tortures used on the Philippinos - but you can do your own research on Teddy's human rights record.

So while they may be considered great presidents by some contemporaries, they aren't exactly the kinds of role models we should hold up as examples of peace workers with what we know of them today. That you should be blind to this history, and willfully wishing to remain so, is more troubling still.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the President, but wtf? Nominations for the prize were done back in Feb. 2009. He was in office for 1 month. I guess I need to look into the reason he won.

Here is the reason straight from the five horses mouths.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/nobel-prize-to-obama-defe_n_316098.html

[jvc]

Oh boy, either you have rocks in your head, or just air. Sorry, but the dollar was worthless before he took office. The previous President printed more worthless money by far than the current one. The bailout was a continuation of the previous President's actions. If you call keeping our banking system from failing socialism, then you don't know what socialism is. If you call saving the automobile industry socialist, then you obviously support having twice as many people out of work as we have now. He cannot turn poor policies dated back to the Reagan years (trickle down economics) in nine months, and anyone expecting him to do so is....well could I use the words stupid?



Wow, Condo? She had 8 years to do something, and she was as miserable a failure as her boss. During her tenure, our relationship and reputation with the world turn to ****. The students at Stanford where my son used to go have sure given her a earful on what she has done. Andrew Young? Jimmy Carter had to ask him to resign after he secretly met with leaders of the PLO - what was considered a terrorist group. I am sure the Jews in Israel love him for saying they were..how do I want to say this.... stubborn and intransigent. This is something you say in private, not on meet the press on Sunday morning. The most notable thing he has done is played a leading role in advancing a settlement in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo. Mugabe a known racist and hater of white people, killed thousands of gays, took land from white landowners without paying them for it, and has interfered with national democratic elections from day one. Oooooooo...great company Mr. Young kept.


You sure can tell alot about a person based on who they support.


If you don't see...no..if you cannot see that this world thinks differently about America because of the way this President has conducted himself on the world stage, that is your business. But obviously those five committee members see things quite differently, and this is their award and they can chose to give it to whomever they want, and for whatever reason they want. You don't have a say, except your opinion. He accepted the award, so the hate is irrelevant and a waste of time.

A democrat knocking down another democrat. This is why democrats where in the minority for so long. Nine months, and he is supposed to fix every problem in the world. Good grief......

If you say so!
You're right. You can tell a lot about a person by who he supports!

The man's unawareness is plain pitiful, to be in the office he's in...........

Barack Obama , through his spokesman, claimed that he was unaware of the tax day tea parties. Granted, the main stream media has done a good job in suppressing any sort of coverage ahead of time (and the little coverage they did provide was derisive at best)… but how out of touch is the Community Organizer in Chief, really?
This much.
- He was unaware that he was attending a church (for 20 years) with a racist pastor who hates America .
- He was unaware that he was family friends with, and started his political career in the living room of, a domestic terrorist.
- He was unaware that he had invested in two speculative companies backed by some of his top donors right after taking office in 2005.
- He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the US illegally.
- He was unaware that his own brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya .
- He was unaware of the AIG bonuses that he and his administration approved and signed into a bill.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Commerce was under investigation in a bribery scandal.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of the Treasury was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be the U.S. Trade Representative was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the woman he nominated to be his Chief Performance Officer was a tax cheat..
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be #2 at the Environmental Protection Agency was under investigation for mismanaging $25 million in EPA grants.
.
For the love of God, there are people in comas that are more aware of world affairs than this smooth talking, xxxxxxx.

And an attempt to add a bit of humor to the truth.......

Let me get this straight.
Obama's health care plan will be . . .
. . . written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it,
. . . passed by a Congress that hasn't read it,
. . . signed by a president who smokes,
. . . funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,
. . . overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
. . . financed by a country that is nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?

[jvc]

I'll bet Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson are turning over in their graves. They actually had to earn this prize, not just give good speeches and head a cult of personality.

Put Harry Truman in there with them, as far as rolling over in the grave...............

Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made as many important decisions regarding our nation's history as any of the other 42 Presidents. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House.

The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence Missouri . His wife had inherited
The house from her mother and other than their years in the
White House, they lived their entire lives there.

When he retired from office in 1952, his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them, granted him an 'allowance' and, later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year..

After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouri by themselves. There were no Secret Service following them.

When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, "You don't want me. You want the office of the President, and that doesn't belong to me. It belongs to the American people and it's not for sale."

Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, "I don't consider that I have done anything which should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise."

As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food.

Modern politicians have found a new level of success in cashing in on the Presidency, resulting in untold wealth. Today, many in Congress also have found a way to become quite wealthy while enjoying the fruits of their offices. Political offices are now for sale. (sic. Illinois)

Good old Harry Truman was correct when he observed, "My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!

I say dig him up and clone him!!

[thekid]

I think it is a good thing whenever someone from this country (REGARDLESS OF THEIR PARTY AFFILIATION wins a Nobel Prize of any type for the same reason we should be proud when an American wins any coveted international award.

Unfortunately the timing of this award will probably create problems for Obama on the domestic level. We are already seeing some of that from those who have managed to take the winning of a Peace prize and turn it in to a polarizing issue. How tragic that people who regularly call into a certain talk radio host identifying themselves and their host as "Great Americans" were so upset when an American won this award. We will never achieve our full potential in this country until we can stop this myopic mudslinging and truly identify ourselves as Americans first and then whatever polictical, relegious, ethnic or social group second-third etc....

Call me a dreamer with a large pessimistic streak.......

[markw]

A spade a spade - I have been using that phrase for years and never thought of it as racist. If it is, then I'll stop using it. But I did a little research and found thisTo say you weren't aware of it'sse in the current mixed society tells me at least one of two things about you:
1) You have no social contact with blacks on an extended basis
...or
2) You lie with the ease of a consumate liberal when you say you never knew it could be considered racist.

[Worf101]

Between the lover's and the haters..... this thread either needs to be moved to the "steel cage" or locked. Folks that hate Pres. Obama and those that willing to give him a chance will never see eye to eye, ever... until there's some violent, stupid incident (which I KNOW is coming) and then it'll just recede for a while.

Just a couple of facts while we're all spittin' on one another.

1. He didn't ask for the award.

2. He didn't campaign for the award.

3. He donated all the money to charities.

4. Admitted that others were equally or MORE deserving.

What the hell more do you want besides him out of office or dead which I know in my heart of hearts are the only things that will satisfy some of you... I read the responses on AOL to every single article about him. These folks are organised by the Republicans or worse to savage the man daily even in threads that have nothing to do about him. Most can barely spell and their logic??? I don't decry folks that disagree with Pres. Obama and his policy's, hell I disagree with some of them, but as was mentioned last week, no one showed up at Bush speeches visibly armed with weapons. That's the major difference between Bush and Obama haters, the latter would happily commit violence to achieve their goal of his downfall, the former did not, Some folks think their 2nd amendment rights include the right to threaten or shoot anyone they disagree with, even a sitting, democratically elected President. Just my 2 cents as a registered Independent who's served his country in peace and war, in garrison and field.

Da Worfster

[thekid]

Worf

Thank you for your comments and Thank You for your service.

[blackraven]

Here is the reason straight from the five horses mouths.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/nobel-prize-to-obama-defe_n_316098.html


Thanks for clearing that up. I had not read why he won it and thought that he won it on his merits as president.

[3LB]

1. He didn't ask for the award.

2. He didn't campaign for the award.

3. He donated all the money to charities.

4. Admitted that others were equally or MORE deserving.


Points taken. I'm not going to pretend I didn't see this coming, but this thread actually came unhinged when it was suggested that the people who were having a problem with this award, or didn't agree with Obama's policies, were probably racists.

No sitting president has ever had 100% support. I think the highest ever was Reagan back in his first term. Americans will always question its leadership...I believe its our obligation to do so. I said on page one of this thread I hope the award pans out and I hope I have to eat crow about it. With regards to Obama's policies, only time will tell as its still way too early to see if the man will have the impact both supporters and opponents say he will have.



until there's some violent, stupid incident (which I KNOW is coming) What the hell more do you want besides him out of office or dead which I know in my heart of hearts are the only things that will satisfy some of you...
I sincerely hope you are wrong on both accounts.

[3LB]

So they don't care that world opinion has changed when it comes to how America is perceived globally. It is all about how they feel. I guess that is all relative. The people who have vowed to kill us aren't praising this award or his foreign policies.

Nobody dogmatically supported Bush or Clinton. I see no reason to start doing it now.

[Worf101]

Points taken. I'm not going to pretend I didn't see this coming, but this thread actually came unhinged when it was suggested that the people who were having a problem with this award, or didn't agree with Obama's policies, were probably racists.

No sitting president has ever had 100% support. I think the highest ever was Reagan back in his first term. Americans will always question its leadership...I believe its our obligation to do so. I said on page one of this thread I hope the award pans out and I hope I have to eat crow about it. With regards to Obama's policies, only time will tell as its still way too early to see if the man will have the impact both supporters and opponents say he will have.

I sincerely hope you are wrong on both accounts.
I sincerely hope so as well. At the height of the anti-Bush years SOME people would say something about assasination and I always caught them up short. There've been many political killings in the country in my lifetime, neither the country nor the world was ever better off for it. The bright shining dream of the forefathers was that under this system, this democratic system we could resolve our passionate differences without resorting to the sword or the gun. The civil war was a close run thing, the 60's were another near moment but by an large, they got it right. Sure the Constitution required some tweeking but the got more right than they got wrong. Just understand, love it or hate it, THIS IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE OBAMA COULD'VE GOTTEN ON THE BALLOT MUCH LESS ELECTED. I think on what I've endured in my lifetime and what the nation's endured and realise what wonder America is.

I think we'll survive the Obama administration I just hope we do it as bloodlessly as possible.

Da Worfster

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If you say so!
You're right. You can tell a lot about a person by who he supports!

The man's unawareness is plain pitiful, to be in the office he's in...........

Barack Obama , through his spokesman, claimed that he was unaware of the tax day tea parties. Granted, the main stream media has done a good job in suppressing any sort of coverage ahead of time (and the little coverage they did provide was derisive at best)… but how out of touch is the Community Organizer in Chief, really?
This much.
- He was unaware that he was attending a church (for 20 years) with a racist pastor who hates America .
- He was unaware that he was family friends with, and started his political career in the living room of, a domestic terrorist.
- He was unaware that he had invested in two speculative companies backed by some of his top donors right after taking office in 2005.
- He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the US illegally.
- He was unaware that his own brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya .
- He was unaware of the AIG bonuses that he and his administration approved and signed into a bill.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Commerce was under investigation in a bribery scandal.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of the Treasury was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be the U.S. Trade Representative was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the woman he nominated to be his Chief Performance Officer was a tax cheat..
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be #2 at the Environmental Protection Agency was under investigation for mismanaging $25 million in EPA grants.
.
For the love of God, there are people in comas that are more aware of world affairs than this smooth talking, xxxxxxx.

And an attempt to add a bit of humor to the truth.......

Let me get this straight.
Obama's health care plan will be . . .
. . . written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it,
. . . passed by a Congress that hasn't read it,
. . . signed by a president who smokes,
. . . funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,
. . . overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
. . . financed by a country that is nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?

This is a pile of bull**** and you know it. I don't know half of what my friends and family are doing because I have a life of my own. More than half of the things you mention he was unaware of is not his job to aware of. The vetting process of his cabinet is not done by him personally, it is done by others.

You are a hater, you admitted it, so let's move on Just Vacant of Common sense

[jvc]

This is a pile of bull**** and you know it. I don't know half of what my friends and family are doing because I have a life of my own. More than half of the things you mention he was unaware of is not his job to aware of. The vetting process of his cabinet is not done by him personally, it is done by others.

You are a hater, you admitted it, so let's move on Just Vacant of Common sense
So, you're telling me he shouldn't know this info, which is criminal actions, by most of those people he nominated to high positions in our government?
Who's the one vacant of common sense? LOL!
Some people.............:rolleyes5:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So, you're telling me he shouldn't know this info, which is criminal actions, by most of those people he nominated to high positions in our government?
Who's the one vacant of common sense? LOL!
Some people.............:rolleyes5:

Do you know everything your family and friends are doing? He nominated them, and it up to those who vet the people nominated to find out that information not the President. If they don't do their job well, that cannot be blamed on the President. Since you obviously don't know the process, you are just like you moniker states Just Vacant of Common sense.

[Ajani]

It's a shame we didn't all watch the Rachel Maddows Show Last Night... She addressed why Obama won the award and most importantly, showed that he is only 1 of MANY award winners who were given awards more to encourage their initiatives than because they had earned it...

The committee can give the award either to recognize great achievements or to encourage a person's work... So Obama is not the first and won't be the last to win the award as encouragement to continue what the committee regards as important peace work...

Also, I would think that all Americans should be proud that the rest of the world is actually showing confidence and respect for an American President... It's quite an improvement from the complete contempt that the rest of the world had for Bush and by extension the American people... Why some Americans want the rest of the world to hate their own President and the American people is beyond me.... Just celebrate the award and hope it truly encourages Obama to earn it....

[jvc]

Do you know everything your family and friends are doing? He nominated them, and it up to those who vet the people nominated to find out that information not the President. If they don't do their job well, that cannot be blamed on the President. Since you obviously don't know the process, you are just like you moniker states Just Vacant of Common sense.
No, I don't know everything they're doing. But, if I was President, and I was going to nominate them for a high position in the government, you'd better believe I'd find out what they were doing, before I nominated them! No need to get a bad rep, over such stupid moves as that, like he's getting.

Like I said before, the polls are showing that the American people are finding out he's not what they thought, and his support by us is going down. The national news is confirming that, almost on a daily basis. When he got in office, I told people that I hope he proved me wrong, and did a good job. I'd like to end up liking him, but I've seen nothing to make me think it's going that way.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

No, I don't know everything they're doing. But, if I was President, and I was going to nominate them for a high position in the government, you'd better believe I'd find out what they were doing, before I nominated them! No need to get a bad rep, over such stupid moves as that, like he's getting.

But if I was....right. Everyone would have done something different in hindsight. What matters is what you would have done in that moment, with this process in place. There is no way anyone can be perfect in what they do, but we can always rely on the but if I wases of the world to tell us after it is already done.

Well, you are not the President, and you have no idea what is on his plate. His freakin plate is full, that is why there are people that do the vetting for him. He relies on the information given him by them, and if they fail, yes it is an embarrassment, but he cannot be blamed for it. You are an end of game quarterback who has not even the slightest inkling of what a President does. Anyone can do what you just did, but not everyone can be a President. Nobody needs a lame end of game quarterback who in hindsight makes a judgement. It is just plain disingenuous, and at best silly and foolish.


Like I said before, the polls are showing that the American people are finding out he's not what they thought, and his support by us is going down.

Like you where before you are inaccurate. Please do not try and impose your beliefs on everyone. Just because you think this way, does not mean anyone else does. When pollsters ask further question about his falling support, it has nothing to do with him, it has more to do with his personal ability to effect change within the system. In others words, he may want to change the system, but does the system want to be changed. Folks do not believe he can change the system by himself, and therefore based on what the public has seen, they don't believe he can.

Poll numbers peak and ebb daily. A poor number today, can be a much better number tomorrow. That is how it works, so don't take your personal dissatisfaction with him as a belief that everyone dislikes him like you do. That is arrogant and self centered (Ioopps I may have hit the nail on the head). Any President that has tried to change a corrupt system has faced opposition. Some folks like you just don't like change as much as they like to wallow in the dysfunction they already are in. People are unhappy right now at our current financial and employment mess, a mess inherited from the policies and tenure of Bush. When they are unhappy, they take it out on the current administration, even if they are not responsible for it. This is just the way it is, so tuck your hate back in your pocket, and stop trying to think for all of us.

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/07/31/the-ongoing-misread-of-obamas-poll-numbers/


The national news is confirming that, almost on a daily basis. When he got in office, I told people that I hope he proved me wrong, and did a good job. I'd like to end up liking him, but I've seen nothing to make me think it's going that way.

The national news is a very poor gage for anything. They like bad news because it sells papers and creates blog hits. Only the gullible take the news as word, people much like you. Who cares what you told people, it is easy to be a tool of negativity.

You made your point, I made mine, so let's move on.

[jvc]

His freakin plate is full, that is why there are people that do the vetting for him. He relies on the information given him by them, and if they fail, yes it is an embarrassment, but he cannot be blamed for it.
I'd just about bet money that you didn't and still don't feel that way about Bush?
Everyone blamed him for starting the Iraq war, on bad info about weapons of mass destruction! Sound familiar? Hell, even in your last post, you're still blaming Bush for everything! Practice what you preach! I still think he was given correct info about the WMDs. The mistake was we gave Iraq ten months notice that we were coming. They had plenty of time to get rid of them. They probably gave them to Syria, or other "friend", to hide for them.

Now, everyone wants all the troops to come home, before we have caught or killed Ben Laden! What are people thinking?! Ben Laden WILL do another 9/11 on us, and I hope he gets the ones that wanted to forgive him and move on! I understand that people don't want their loved ones to get hurt, in the war. I guess they want other people's loved ones to get killed in another 9/11, because we left the terrorists alone?

People are unhappy right now at our current financial and employment mess, a mess inherited from the policies and tenure of Bush. When they are unhappy, they take it out on the current administration, even if they are not responsible for it. This is just the way it is, so tuck your hate back in your pocket, and stop trying to think for all of us.
Again, attacking Bush! So, what do you call what you're doing if not trying to think for all of us? You don't agree, only because it's what you think, as opposed to what I think. Afterall, there's no way you could be wrong, because that's how you feel! If someone else feels differently, they are automatically wrong, and have no common sense!

[thekid]

:10: You're a stupid head
No-You're a stupid head :10:
:10: Are not
Are so:10:

21st Century Political discourse..........

:smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'd just about bet money that you didn't and still don't feel that way about Bush?

I was indifferent about Bush day one, and indifferent about him the last day. Now his actions are a different story.


Everyone blamed him for starting the Iraq war, on bad info about weapons of mass destruction! Sound familiar? Hell, even in your last post, you're still blaming Bush for everything! Practice what you preach! I still think he was given correct info about the WMDs. The mistake was we gave Iraq ten months notice that we were coming. They had plenty of time to get rid of them. They probably gave them to Syria, or other "friend", to hide for them.

Don't every tell anyone your are a democrat, because that would be a lie. You are a republician spitting out republican talking points. Now that this is exposed....

In case your selective mind doesn't get it, Bush DID start the Iraq war. That is a fact. Secondly, the UN inspectors found no WMD in Iraq, and found no evidence of WMD in Iraq. It was all a bluff that Hussein used to keep everyone at bay. There is no evidence to support any of your conspiracy claims, they have already been debunked. The information he was given was altered to support his going in, and the commission that investigated the run up to the war has stated that. They "probably is a word of assumption"...not fact. All your talking points here have already been debunked, so let your little conspiracy theories go.


Now, everyone wants all the troops to come home, before we have caught or killed Ben Laden! What are people thinking?! Ben Laden WILL do another 9/11 on us, and I hope he gets the ones that wanted to forgive him and move on! I understand that people don't want their loved ones to get hurt, in the war. I guess they want other people's loved ones to get killed in another 9/11, because we left the terrorists alone?

They want the troops to come home because they are not there to find Ben Laden. Ben Laden is not in Iraq, there are no WMD in Iraq, so we have no business there. The Bush administration should have waited until the UN finished their inspection. That way we would not have found ourselves wasting precious resources for nothing. If you read Newsweek, you would have found that the Taliban does not want Al Qaeda (who we should be fighting) in their country because they have been a stone around their neck since 9/11. The Taliban is not our enemy, Al Qaeda is. Even our own Generals have said there are less than 100 of them in Afghanistan because basically they have been chased out of there, killed, or gone into Pakistan. You are thinking with you emotions and personal uneducated opinion, not with good common sense, facts, and logic.


Again, attacking Bush! So, what do you call what you're doing if not trying to think for all of us? You don't agree, only because it's what you think, as opposed to what I think. Afterall, there's no way you could be wrong, because that's how you feel! If someone else feels differently, they are automatically wrong, and have no common sense!

You are twisting and spinning like a cyclone or tornado. This is MY opinion, not a thought implant. It is based on what I have read, researched and experienced. Please do not attempt to twist my thoughts into a thought implant on everyone like you have done.

This is not an attack, it is a fact support by a mountain of evidence. It is a fact that Bush's policies that relaxed rules and regulations on the banks help tremendously in creating this problem. Let us add the tax breaks for the rich that blew a whole in a budget surplus he inherited. These tax cuts were followed by a spending frenzy that dug a hole deeper in our federal debt. His indifference towards the federal budgets debt is well documented by Paul O'Neil, his first treasury secretary. These are not the only reason this happened. Our personal debt, and our belief that we could spend more than we earned was another big contribution. Remember Bush's words after 9/11. "Everyone go out and shop", the words that rang across this country. An encouragement to increase your personal debt to keep the economic machine moving in a time of crises. While Clinton had a part in this as well, Clinton left him in better condition than he left Obama. These are facts that are well documented. Obama walked into this mess, he did not create it. That is another indisputable fact

The blame on this mess can be spread fairly far, but remember what I have stated, the person at the top takes the blame of what happens during their tenure, right or not. When Obama came on the scene, things were already bad and getting worse. The inertia of that bad kept rolling through Obama taking office, hence why you blame him for everything. Understandable, but not real or factual.

[jvc]

Don't every tell anyone your are a democrat, because that would be a lie.
I said I am a registered democrat, and I am. But I've voted democrat only twice. We, my wife and I, both registered as democrats, so we could help weed out the worst ones, in the democratic primary. We do vote republican most of the time, because they just plain make more sense.

I know very well that Bush started the war! I was saying why everybody blamed him for doing it. But, you had just said that Obama couldn't be blamed for doing something based on bad info, but you blame Bush for that exact reason, since you think he got bad info! So, Bush doesn't deserve the same consideration as OsamaBama? Like I said, in ten months, Hussein had plenty of time to remove the weapons, and make it look like he never had them. Only a fool would think they never had them. If he had nothing to hide, why was he cowered down in a hole in the ground?

Ben Laden is not in Iraq,
How do you know that? Since you know so much, why don't you tell the military where he is, so they can get him, and finish all this up? I didn't say Ben Laden was in Iraq. He's probably in Pakistan.

This is not an attack, it is a fact support by a mountain of evidence.
What evidence do you have? Hopefully not from the national news or newspapers, because you said:

The national news is a very poor gage for anything. They like bad news because it sells papers and creates blog hits. Only the gullible take the news as word, people much like you. Who cares what you told people, it is easy to be a tool of negativity.
You're too much..............

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I said I am a registered democrat, and I am. But I've voted democrat only twice. We, my wife and I, both registered as democrats, so we could help weed out the worst ones, in the democratic primary. We do vote republican most of the time, because they just plain make more sense.

JVC, cut the lying man...you are a republican spewing republican talking points. Give me a break, everyone is not as stupid as you think they are. Yeah, republicans make so much more sense that they co-sign on a unnecessary war that costs us billions perhaps trillions, but yet healthcare for all Americans is too expensive. It is better to go to war with somebody else, rather than taking care of your own. That makes perfect sense. They cut taxes and increase spending driving up the national debt, then claim somebody else's policies are not fiscally responsible. That makes perfect sense.


I know very well that Bush started the war! I was saying why everybody blamed him for doing it. But, you had just said that Obama couldn't be blamed for doing something based on bad info, but you blame Bush for that exact reason, since you think he got bad info! So, Bush doesn't deserve the same consideration as OsamaBama?

OsamaBama, a name straight from the racists of North Carolina. It didn't take long at all for you to reveal who you truly are. Bush's decision has cost over four thousand American deaths and added trillions to our national debt. President Obama decision cost America what? Let's not be stupid here....



Like I said, in ten months, Hussein had plenty of time to remove the weapons, and make it look like he never had them.

Bull$hit. They had satellites over Iraq for a year before we went to war. If there was any indication of that kind of activity, they would have known about it. There is no evidence of this PERIOD.


Only a fool would think they never had them. If he had nothing to hide, why was he cowered down in a hole in the ground?

Wow, you are really quite stupid. He was in a hole to avoid capture fool! That does not mean he had WMD. There was no proof he had them. We checked, the UN checked, they found NOTHING, we found absolutely NOTHING.


How do you know that? Since you know so much, why don't you tell the military where he is, so they can get him, and finish all this up? I didn't say Ben Laden was in Iraq. He's probably in Pakistan.

This is a weak stupid response, something you would hear from a child. Give me a break...


What evidence do you have? Hopefully not from the national news or newspapers, because you said:

You're too much..............

Definitely too much for you. All one has to do is read the blogs of the leading economists in this country and abroad who have done careful and thorough analysis on this situation. Elizabeth Warren is one, Paul Krugman is another. There are ton's more information out there on this aside from the news or newspapers.

I am going to stop right here. I am not debating a knowledgeable person, just a person full of conspiracy theories, foolishness, and false assumptions. Not to mention the typical southern racist trying to pass himself off as something else. I am a registered democrat that votes republican..give me a frocking break. Go back to your tea party bither movement where you are probably more comfortable. JackedVocalCon is all you really are.

[jvc]

You're an Idiot, plain and simple! You call someone a liar, and you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't seem to have any idea of what goes on outside your private little world, outside your head.
I'm finished too. I'm tired of your BS...............
Have a good life with Obama. But we don't want to hear any crying when things turn sour for you.

[jvc]

My apologies to everyone else..............
When he got even more childish, and started the name calling, I decided he wasn't going to have ALL the fun, so I engaged in it also. Those like him is why most forums won't allow discussions about politics or religion. Someone always starts calling someone else a liar or stupid, then the fun starts.
I won't burden y'all anymore with my beliefs, because I saw in November that I'm in the minority of this election.

[JohnMichael]

I moved this thread to the Steel Cage because tempers were rising. I will not delete one opinion without deleting the opposing opinion. Anyone who does not like what is being written please practice your freedom of not having to read what is posted. Some of your posts were reported during other heated threads by members outside the US. Welcome to the Steel Cage.

[GMichael]

I disagree with most of what has been written on both sides. Everyone seems to answer only half of the points made by the other side, conveniently overlooking anything that they can not disprove. Eventually it brakes down to rock throwing. It's no wonder that nothing gets resolved.

I didn't vote for Obama and am not convinced that he was the best choice, but he's there now and I will back him 100% until he proves that he doesn't deserve my backing. If I disagree with him, I will say that I disagree with him, but I won't slander the man. He doesn't deserve that. Many people have not given past presidents that same courtesy, but that doesn't mean that we can not start now.

[3LB]

I didn't vote for Obama and am not convinced that he was the best choice, but he's there now and I will back him 100% until he proves that he doesn't deserve my backing. If I disagree with him, I will say that I disagree with him, but I won't slander the man. He doesn't deserve that. Many people have not given past presidents that same courtesy, but that doesn't mean that we can not start now. As I had pointed out earlier, it isn't unusual that a sitting president gets scrutinized to the point of minutiae, but it comes with the territory; its why they get paid the big bucks. I doubt seriously that Obama is getting it any worse than any other president has in the past. Certainly, he doesn't deserve to be slandered (where?) but by the same token, dissenting opinions don't deserve to be labeled 'racist'.

While I brought it up, I'm getting sick and tired of one side or the other trying to play the race card, especially where it doesn't really pertain to them. Unless someone tells me they're a racist I assume otherwise. But some of you are imbued with special powers of perception that allow you to sling the word around free and easy. You can't judge racism from an inference, not to mention the fact that its just pretencious as hell, I don't care if you're non-caucasian, differently oriented, abled or otherwise. Who cares and big deal. Empathy is a courtesy one human being bestows upon another, it is not a sword of justice.

[nightflier]

To say you weren't aware of it'sse in the current mixed society tells me at least one of two things about you: 1) You have no social contact with blacks on an extended basis

My wife of 17 years was an active member of The Nation when we met. Is that close enough? Granted, she's changed many of her views since then, but you're way off base on your guesses about me.


2) You lie with the ease of a consumate liberal when you say you never knew it could be considered racist.

I am a citizen, but have not lived in this country most of my life, so understanding all its cultural idioms isn't always easy. Whatever. I'm done trying to explain it and you're just trying to revive something that is obviously of no interest to anyone else. Let is go already.




1. He didn't ask for the award.

2. He didn't campaign for the award.

3. He donated all the money to charities.

4. Admitted that others were equally or MORE deserving.



I didn't know about #3, although many Nobel Laureates do this. As a matter of fact, the minute they are given the award, winners are hounded by charities and lobbyists, from what I've read, so I suppose this comes with the territory. I think my disappointment is less with Obama than it is with the criteria that the committee uses.

Now our president could very well do great things. I sincerely hope that the talks with Iran will go well, and I also think he could have a very positive influence on the Palestinian-Israeli question. If these diplomatic moves are successful, then I could see an easier path out of Iraq, and perhaps even Afghanistan, so there is tremendous potential and impetus behind this president. But how much of this could have been foreseen when he took office and the Nobel committee was finalizing its decision?

This is why I consider potential a rather specious criteria. What if another winner of the Nobel Peace prize does not follow through with that potential, or worse, goes in a totally different direction afterwards, pursuing bellicose goals; then what? Does the award get rescinded? Does the winner have to give the money back? And what if s/he no longer has the money? I don't know the answers to these questions, and perhaps it has never been necessary to ask them.

I am also quite aware that asking them now, with Obama having just received it, could be construed as incendiary in itself. But thinking more generally, and presuming that we are not just talking about Obama, should the Nobel committee award prizes based primarily on potential? What if next year a Nobel Peace prize was awarded to Raul Castro, or Hu Jintao as an incentive, but before they concluded any major policy changes? Are they equally deserving of it than let's say Aung San Suu Kyi or Desmond Tutu? I still think that awards should be given based on work done. If it's based primarily on potential, then the Nobel committee gets into the murky position of influencing policy.

[markw]

My wife of 17 years was an active member of The Nation when we met. Is that close enough? Granted, she's changed many of her views since then, but you're way off base on your guesses about meI have no idea what "The Nation" is, nor doI care, but I can say with certainty that if you used that phrase in the context you used it here in a minority laced room, all talk would cease and all eyes would turn towards you.

FWIW, in the Toastmasters group of which my wife and I are members, I am the only one not "of color" and this subject was brought up long ago.


I am a citizen, but have not lived in this country most of my life, so understanding all its cultural idioms isn't always easy.Yet you have no problem criticizing this country. Interesting... Consider yourself more educated than you were two days ago. No charge...


Whatever. I'm done trying to explain it and you're just trying to revive something that is obviously of no interest to anyone else. Let is go already..Hey, this was dead since Friday. You're the one who ressurected it to try to save face, not me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

As I had pointed out earlier, it isn't unusual that a sitting president gets scrutinized to the point of minutiae, but it comes with the territory; its why they get paid the big bucks. I doubt seriously that Obama is getting it any worse than any other president has in the past. Certainly, he doesn't deserve to be slandered (where?) but by the same token, dissenting opinions don't deserve to be labeled 'racist'.

While I brought it up, I'm getting sick and tired of one side or the other trying to play the race card, especially where it doesn't really pertain to them. Unless someone tells me they're a racist I assume otherwise. But some of you are imbued with special powers of perception that allow you to sling the word around free and easy. You can't judge racism from an inference, not to mention the fact that its just pretencious as hell, I don't care if you're non-caucasian, differently oriented, abled or otherwise. Who cares and big deal. Empathy is a courtesy one human being bestows upon another, it is not a sword of justice.

Your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I don't agree. When a person uses langauge used by known racists, then it puts him behind the racist bullet. So based on what you are saying, a white person can call a African American the N word, and by your logic he would NOT be racist. I do not agree with that at all.

[3LB]

So based on what you are saying, a white person can call a African American the N word, and by your logic he would NOT be racist. I do not agree with that at all.

you mean like...Nice?


geez dude...that's a stretch even for you. First off, unless the derrogatory remark is directed to you, or a close friend or family member, what's it to you?

You can certainly disagree with the remark, hate it, want to retaliate or what have you, but if I the person being called such a word was present, I could only defer to him/her as to how to respond, because it ain't my call. I can have their back, but it isn't my horse to ride. To assume otherwise is pretencious.

[3LB]

My wife of 17 years was an active member of The Nation when we met.

FWIW, in the Toastmasters group of which my wife and I are members, I am the only one not "of color" and this subject was brought up long ago.



I used to own a Coolio CD and Sanford & Son was my fave show as a kid. I know all the words to The Jeffersons and Good Times themes (The Jefferson theme was sang by the same women who also played neighbor Willona on Good Times - and I didn't even wiki that so there).

[JohnMichael]

you mean like...Nice?


First off, unless the derrogatory remark is directed to you, or a close friend or family member, what's it to you?

but if I the person being called such a word was present, I could only defer to him/her as to how to respond, because it ain't my call. I can have their back, but it isn't my horse to ride. To assume otherwise is pretencious.



Wow, I think it is all of our jobs to stop hate and work for equality. Every human has value and deserves respect. Words of hate are harmful and demeaning.

[3LB]

Wow, I think it is all of our jobs to stop hate and work for equality. Every human has value and deserves respect. Words of hate are harmful and demeaning.Well John, if you and I were in an actual, platonic, social, physical, platonic friendly basis (did I mention platonic) and you were accosted verbally with homophobic slurs, I would have your back (did I mention platonic), but I wouldn't presume to be more angry about it than you are, nor should I want to make some demonstration that might obstruct your ability to act in whatever manner you deem fit.

This is not the same as condoning racist activity. I don't think anyone here has exibited any racial biggotry whatsoever. I don't think it is anyone's place to go around acting as thought police, that's all my comments above was about. Most of the time, its just a cheap way of deflecting, and isn't piggybacking someone else's cause for selfish benefit just tad insulting to those who actually do know discrimination first hand, and don't need my second hand experience to validate theirs?

[nightflier]

If you used that phrase in the context you used it here in a minority laced room, all talk would cease and all eyes would turn towards you.

I certainly have made mistakes of speech in mixed company, that kind of goes with the territory. Most people have, even Obama. It's how we learn from it and what we do afterward that matters.


FWIW, in the Toastmasters group of which my wife and I are members, I am the only one not "of color"

This seems to be of some importance to you. So from what I'm gathering, your wife is "of color"? Good for you, it helps with those situations when you say something stupid at a toastmaster's meeting, but I'm going to guess this hasn't gone very far in your case. Click click!


Yet you have no problem criticizing this country.

No I have no issues with "this country," but I am troubled by the things said by some of the people in it, like you.


Hey, this was dead since Friday. You're the one who ressurected it to try to save face, not me.

I wasn't online this weekend - and I certainly would have no interest in resurrecting the topic. I am also not "trying" anything, I am acknowledging that I made a mistake of speech and am owning up to it. Now with that, could we please drop this?

[JohnMichael]

Well John, if you and I were in an actual, platonic, social, physical, platonic friendly basis (did I mention platonic) and you were accosted verbally with homophobic slurs, I would have your back (did I mention platonic), but I wouldn't presume to be more angry about it than you are, nor should I want to make some demonstration that might obstruct your ability to act in whatever manner you deem fit.




Okay here we go again. Your use of platonic 4 times reminds me of some prejudicial thinking. The stereotype that gay men are attracted to all men is ridiculous. Most men straight or gay are attracted to a type or someone similar to their type. I am so very sure you are not my type. Believe me you are so incredibly safe.

[markw]

I certainly have made mistakes of speech in mixed company, that kind of goes with the territory. Most people have, even Obama. It's how we learn from it and what we do afterward that matters.Well,ince yu always choose your words so carefully, it sure looked to me like you chose those words simply to be cute. Now, c'mon up to this area and say it in a crowd of minorities and see how cute they see it.


This seems to be of some importance to you. So from what I'm gathering, your wife is "of color"? Good for you, it helps with those situations when you say something stupid at a toastmaster's meeting, but I'm going to guess this hasn't gone very far in your case. Click click!Actually, had you not thrown out your wife's mebership in whatever thing that is you mention as some sort of justification for your pompus remarks, I never would have brought it up. Actually, I do quite well in mixed crowds. If your posting here is any indication of your experience in this area, you wouldn't last one hour.


No I have no issues with "this country," but I am troubled by the things said by some of the people in it, like you.Funny, I feel the exact same way, and I was born here and have lived here all my life.. And there's not a thing you can do about it, either, although I know you would once he gets his "thought police" get up and running.


I wasn't online this weekend - and I certainly would have no interest in resurrecting the topic. I am also not "trying" anything, I am acknowledging that I made a mistake of speech and am owning up to it. Now with that, could we please drop this?Well, if you have no interest in resurrecting it, why did you resurrect it then?

But, I'll let it be if you will.

[3LB]

Your use of platonic 4 times reminds me of some prejudicial thinking. I'm ironical that way. No preconceived notions here. It was mostly so no one else would chime in and make something outta nothin. But, point served and point taken.

FWIW: I don't think I'm much of anyone's type really ;)

[JohnMichael]

FWIW: I don't think I'm much of anyone's type really ;)



As a wise friend once told me "We are all someone's fantasy".

Therefore you are someone's type. As you emphasized platonic I emphasized no need to worry. When you start a thread you can lock it.

[bobsticks]

I didn't vote for Obama and am not convinced that he was the best choice, but he's there now and I will back him 100% until he proves that he doesn't deserve my backing. If I disagree with him, I will say that I disagree with him, but I won't slander the man. He doesn't deserve that. Many people have not given past presidents that same courtesy, but that doesn't mean that we can not start now.


Just some random thoughts...and mebbe my perspective is a bit skewed...but I think there's something that Gm gets...and I know Terrence and Worf get it...President Obama is "our guy"...he's what we have...

Is the award, perhaps, premature?...Maybe...but something to consider...there ain't enough rugged individualism...and there damn sure ain't enough ammo in this country to combat the forces at play in the rest of the world...

Sometimes, usually, things are about "control"...we can't control the world...if our President can elevate the level of discourse, if he can create an environment that is conciliatory or ameliorating then we need to support him and his efforts...

The forces at play in other countries...those that control the means of production...the economic power...are creating permanent underclasses...creating poverty....everyday the Arab world grows younger, poorer, and more resentful...we've created their oppressors...because we are their oppressors...

If through diplomacy our President can do anything to make our world safer we, as citizens, have an obligation to support him...

[JohnMichael]

Just some random thoughts...and mebbe my perspective is a bit skewed...but I think there's something that Gm gets...and I know Terrence and Worf get it...President Obama is "our guy"...he's what we have...

Is the award, perhaps, premature?...Maybe...but something to consider...there ain't enough rugged individualism...and there damn sure ain't enough ammo in this country to combat the forces at play in the rest of the world...

Sometimes, usually, things are about "control"...we can't control the world...if our President can elevate the level of discourse, if he can create an environment that is conciliatory or ameliorating then we need to support him and his efforts...

The forces at play in other countries...those that control the means of production...the economic power...are creating permanent underclasses...creating poverty....everyday the Arab world grows younger, poorer, and more resentful...we've created their oppressors...because we are their oppressors...

If through diplomacy our President can do anything to make our world safer we, as citizens, have an obligation to support him...



Yes, yes, and absolutely yes.

[3LB]

When you start a thread you can lock it. I'll take that under consideration

[3LB]

Just some random thoughts...and mebbe my perspective is a bit skewed...but I think there's something that Gm gets...and I know Terrence and Worf get it...President Obama is "our guy"...he's what we have...

Is the award, perhaps, premature?...Maybe...but something to consider...there ain't enough rugged individualism...and there damn sure ain't enough ammo in this country to combat the forces at play in the rest of the world...

Sometimes, usually, things are about "control"...we can't control the world...if our President can elevate the level of discourse, if he can create an environment that is conciliatory or ameliorating then we need to support him and his efforts...

The forces at play in other countries...those that control the means of production...the economic power...are creating permanent underclasses...creating poverty....everyday the Arab world grows younger, poorer, and more resentful...we've created their oppressors...because we are their oppressors...

If through diplomacy our President can do anything to make our world safer we, as citizens, have an obligation to support him...

Well, my granny always said, "if ya ain't got nothin nice to say..."

[bobsticks]

Well, my granny always said, "if ya ain't got nothin nice to say..."

Yer Granny grew up in a different era...welcome to the New World Order....

I can't speeak to Iraq or Iran....but I can tell you....you don't wanna go to the desert, T....