PS Audio PerfectWave Transport and DAC [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : PS Audio PerfectWave Transport and DAC



atomicAdam
09-26-2009, 06:45 PM
Went and heard the PSAudio PerfectWave Transport (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-transport?cat=audio) and PerfectWave DAC (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-dac?cat=audio) today at Audio High (http://www.audiohigh.com/) in Mountain View today.

The Transport and DAC were hooked straight up to Chord SPM6000 (http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/products_detail.asp?id=22) amps, I believe. The speakers were KEF REFERENCE 207/2 (http://www.kef.com/us/Loudspeakers/Reference/207). No pre-amp.

If you don't know about concept behind the PerfectWave Transport I'll give you a very brief description. Basically, the transport reads the data off the CD and put in into RAM and spits it out to the DAC. It also does all this with an asymmetrical clock which is supposed to eliminate all jitter. Digital jitter was thus described as data buffer back ups and over flows due to fluctuating clock issues between the clock that spins the CD and another clock that deals with the digital data off the CD. Pretty advanced stuff that sounds just like a normal hi-fi CD player to me.

What I did find to be pretty impressive was the Reference HRx discs. Holly snap crackle and pop this is GREAT sounding. The detail and depth difference between a CD and the HRx discs is over whelming. I want HRx technology! Though I want it for other stuff then classical music.

Anyways I think PSAudio has some nice new stuff, you should check it out if you are in the market for digital transport and DAC.

And not related to the PerfectWave stuff but PS Audio related,I heard about the Power Plant (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/power-plant-premier_copy?cat=power) which sounded pretty smart.

Mr Peabody
09-26-2009, 07:25 PM
That set would have to be impressive to command the price they are at. What did you think of it, was it far beyond other digital playback you've heard?

atomicAdam
09-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Well, you have to take this with a bit of a grain of salt.

Unfortunately this was a demo of the PS Audio equipment, not me demo'ing for myself. So, the music played was all stuff I was unfamiliar with. The 1st piece was some world beat crap that made me want to save Africa, and the second piece was classical. We got to hear the CD version then the Reference HRx discs version of both.

With that being said, I thought the CD version was snappy, dynamic, clear, clean, a little on the high side, and lacked soul. The Reference HRx discs version of the the world beat was nice, everything was deeper, more depth and detail to each sound. The classical music was simply amazing. It was like being the conductor, sort of. I mean, as much as two speakers can possibly pretend to be an orchestra. The strings on the Reference HRx discs disc were filled out, you could hear the wood, the depth and body. They sounded awesome. The bass was very quick. Almost too quick. Not that I've been to a lot of classical performances, but from the ones I've been too, I seem to remember the bass being more organic and reverberating. Basically, the interaction of the concert hall and the music. So, being so close, getting the mic's advantage, was a little too perfect. In a way.

Overall though, it still wasn't as soulful as great vinyl. Not that I have a lot of experience in that, but from my limited I'd stand with that opinion. Everything was very clear, clean, detailed, deep, dynamic, but just not organic feeling. It wasn't cold, it wasn't warm. I guess it was just neutral. Compared to the Dynaudio S.4 I heard it was way better. Compared the listening to jazz on the B&W 803D, it was soulless. At least, for me. Maybe some tube amps would have helped, and music I'm more familiar with.

Impressive, yes, absolutely. A wonderful treat to hear. And knowledge to gain.

If all the stuff I listened to was available on Reference HRx discs I'd start saving up $6k right now. But it isn't, and the CD version of what we heard still had the same flaws as the CD versions I've heard in some other hi-fi stuff.

Mr Peabody
09-26-2009, 09:16 PM
I understand what you are saying about too perfect. It's a two edge sword though because if a system sounded like some Rock concerts I've been to not many would probably buy them. But I think it's that "too perfect" feel that people sense in equipment like Krell and assign terms like "analytical". I think you may have appreciated it though with music you were familiar with and more complex pieces. It is sweet though when you find equipment that can groove with the music.

atomicAdam
09-27-2009, 07:08 AM
I understand what you are saying about too perfect. It's a two edge sword though because if a system sounded like some Rock concerts I've been to not many would probably buy them. But I think it's that "too perfect" feel that people sense in equipment like Krell and assign terms like "analytical". I think you may have appreciated it though with music you were familiar with and more complex pieces. It is sweet though when you find equipment that can groove with the music.


"analytical" might be a good term to use. The system definitely wasn't 'cold'.

You know, it could have just been the speakers and amp combo. I'd say I had at least 10 years on everybody in that room, 20 on 90%. My ears could have just heard those speakers differently than they did. Plus, I personally am attracted more to the tube sound than SS.

I think I'm not a scientific audiophile. I'm not going to listen to music that I don't like just because it sounds perfect. To me the perfect turd is still a perfect turd.

Anyways, I think the technology behind the PerfectWave Transport and DAC are pretty cool.

For those who are getting into music servers the DAC will get a $500 bridge card that will allow you to play off of your computer, NAS, Pandora, etc. All the while using the asymmetrical, or perfectly timed, features that are in the Transport. The whole idea to eliminate jitter.

For those looking into the music server route, this is something to definitely check out. The technology sounds smart, and the price is way better then some of the $10,000 bs music servers I've read about.

poppachubby
09-27-2009, 10:14 AM
I think alot of high end companies are finally coming around to the fact that they can make boatloads of money by making an "affordable" DAC that's audiophile quality. DAC technology is becoming more commonly known, and since everyone and their dog has a comp, seems like a logical market to tap into. I have been on the hunt for a new DAC for a while. I have a Firestone Spitfire which does a great job but is certainly not high end. I'm going to look into this stuff Adam, sounds great and thanks for sharing...

Mr Peabody
09-27-2009, 10:36 AM
Well at $6k for the pair, $3k each piece, they are hardly budget pieces. You might want to look at the Benchmark units. I've not heard one but a few here have them and like them.

This is an interesting piece at some where slightly under $4k. I can vouch that the CD playback is stellar: http://www.taelektroakustik.de/eng/index.htm

atomicAdam
09-27-2009, 12:55 PM
Well at $6k for the pair, $3k each piece, they are hardly budget pieces. You might want to look at the Benchmark units. I've not heard one but a few here have them and like them.

This is an interesting piece at some where slightly under $4k. I can vouch that the CD playback is stellar: http://www.taelektroakustik.de/eng/index.htm


Agreed, not budget by any means. And you really have to buy into the idea that you can hear jitter on a CD. I would have loved if they had a the same analog conversions and same optical drive reader but w/o the fancy stuff in between to hear if there is a difference. Can you really hear a nano second error? Much less, this new PerfectWave Transport will just skip a piece of information if it fails it's 85 times error check. Isn't that jitter then? They said it was too small a time to hear, and could be. But is a CD's timing buffer overflow also too small a time to hear?

Mr Peabody
09-27-2009, 03:46 PM
Adam, here is some jitter info you might find interesting

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diginterf1_e.html

RGA
09-27-2009, 04:58 PM
I hate to sound like a broken record but a no times oversampling CD replay system from the likes of Audio Note or Zanden and several others seems to me to present far less of an issue here. The disc is played once - it is never error checked. It is once through system. the information is sent to the DAC with Zero oversampling, zero error checking, zero feedback, and Zero filtering of any kind to brick wall spurious signals above 22khz Jitter is not measurable.

Downside - They're a little fussy with phase and preamp input impedance and their total harmonic distortion is higher than any other CD replay device going and have several other measurement anomalies that you don't see with other cd players.

Here is the review that discusses this technology from the editor of enjoythemusic.com. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0401/andac5special.htm

One note I would make is that new AN DAC's no longer use analog filters.

Also many other companies have copied AN's design - Zanden being the most noted - but I have not heard any of the other players utilizing it so I can't comment on them. A layman explanation http://www.audionotekits.com/agrovedac.html

Ultimately to me the design of the thing is far less important than the result - if the PS Audio sounds good and you like it better that is the one to get - the rest is just bafflegab.

Feanor
09-28-2009, 06:26 AM
I hate to sound like a broken record but a no times oversampling CD replay system from the likes of Audio Note or Zanden and several others seems to me to present far less of an issue here. The disc is played once - it is never error checked. It is once through system. the information is sent to the DAC with Zero oversampling, zero error checking, zero feedback, and Zero filtering of any kind to brick wall spurious signals above 22khz Jitter is not measurable.

...

Interesting thread on digital filtering can be found here ... http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=148231&highlight=digital+filter

In particular note comments by AA Inmate, Werner. I don't pretend to understand everything that is discussed.

nightflier
09-28-2009, 12:18 PM
Just FYI: I was talking with a tech at PS Audio a couple of months ago and he said that their new line of amps will have the same form factor and design as the PWT & PWD. I hope they won't have the same price-tag, lol.

JoeE SP9
09-28-2009, 04:49 PM
If I remember correctly Genesis used to have a product called the "Digital Lens". It was basically just a large RAM buffer that stored data from the disk and used a special clock circuit to output jitter free data. I think it also had a DAC as part of it.

atomicAdam
09-29-2009, 09:44 AM
If I remember correctly Genesis used to have a product called the "Digital Lens". It was basically just a large RAM buffer that stored data from the disk and used a special clock circuit to output jitter free data. I think it also had a DAC as part of it.


Yes, that is the ticket. Paul McGowan worked for or ran Genesis and then went and bought back PS Audio. (Paul and Stan(I believe) Audio). The PerfectWave stuff is based off the Digital Lens concept.