Vizio VF550M [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

recoveryone

09-10-2009, 07:27 PM

Well it came today, just in time for the opening game of this new NFL season. After some check and re-check with the HDMI cable (real sensitive) the picture came in (Had the HD cable box set to ESPN) and wow the Clemson, GA Tech game jumped out in full 1080i. I tried out my DVD player to see if there was a improvement (through in Rules of Engagement) full 480P. My son told me Pittsburgh and Tennessee was playing on NBC and I switched over to another crisp detail picture at 1080i. There not much being said about this set online, but it shares the same specs as te XT/VT model. At this point I can say that it shines with a HD signal and makes SD channels a poor sight to view. Compare to my 32" Vizio 720p upstairs I can tell the differences in the depth of color in the HD pic.

Speaking of color depth, I notice last night while watching the President speech, the differences in the HD signals that certain channels broadcast. I was flipping back and forth from HD Fox news, HD ABC and HD CBS and saw how much softer the ABC feed looked compared to CBS and Fox. I know that ABC only puts out a 720p signal compare to Fox and CBS 1080i.

Can't wait for the Blu ray player to come in next week and see how it will play with this new screen.

Worf101

09-10-2009, 07:29 PM

Mozeltov!!! Hope you love and enjoy your new set as much as I do my Sammy. HD sports are a wonder to behold.

Da Worfster

pixelthis

09-10-2009, 10:44 PM

GMichael

09-11-2009, 05:08 AM

Congrats R1. May you have many years of blissful viewing.
When does the BR player show up?

recoveryone

09-11-2009, 06:01 AM

The Pioneer BDP 120 should be arriving next week

GMichael

09-11-2009, 06:05 AM

Way cool. What movie do you think will be first?

Rich-n-Texas

09-11-2009, 06:22 AM

...A lot think I am a Vizio fanboy,...
You're too stupid to be a fanboy.

Congrats on your purchase(s) recoveryone! :thumbsup:

If you're a Rush fan and into concert DVD's, I highly recommend Rush's latest: Snakes & Arrows Live. IMO it really pushes the capabilities of my PS3 from a visual AND audio standpoint. The audio track is DTS-HD MA, which is hands down my favorite Lossless format.

Enjoy!

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-11-2009, 08:29 AM

You're too stupid to be a fanboy.

Congrats on your purchase(s) recoveryone! :thumbsup:

If you're a Rush fan and into concert DVD's, I highly recommend Rush's latest: Snakes & Arrows Live. IMO it really pushes the capabilities of my PS3 from a visual AND audio standpoint. The audio track is DTS-HD MA, which is hands down my favorite Lossless format.

Enjoy!

Forget the DVD, get the Blu-ray version(I know you meant Blu-ray Tex). It is a reference concert video with reference PQ and AQ. I loved it and gave it a perfect score.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1900&show=review

recoveryone

09-11-2009, 08:44 AM

Way cool. What movie do you think will be first?

I'm not looking to repeat anything I already have, So I'm looking at the lastest X-men or wait until Startrek or Transformers come out within the next few weeks. I watched SW1 last night and my old Pioneer DV45A was at the top of its game. maybe its the HDMI output from the AV or just that new toy feeling, but it look a bit extra sharp and detailed, almost too detail where you can really see the difference in CGI and real backdrops. The Pod race was awesome, the space fight with the Naboo fighters is A+++ very deep black of space and the color depth of the Trade Fed ships. Now my old Mits was no slouch, but I have to admit using the HDMI cables are very nice, My 81TX picks up each sound format with ease and does not default to DDPLII when a 5.1 signal is not present. I like that, some my not. If its digital stereo then thats what it is and some HD channels are just that and not full 5.1.

recoveryone

09-11-2009, 08:51 AM

First, congrats on your set.
A lot think I am a Vizio fanbo.:1:

Some could call me that too with 3 Vizio in the house now. But my choice came down to daily use and most bang for the buck. If I had a dedicated HT room, I would have went with a Projector or Plasma.

Worf101

09-11-2009, 09:45 AM

Some could call me that too with 3 Vizio in the house now. But my choice came down to daily use and most bang for the buck. If I had a dedicated HT room, I would have went with a Projector or Plasma.
At the end of the day... you do what's best for you. Simple as that. If you're enjoying your purchase, I couldn't be any happier for you.

Da Worfster

Rich-n-Texas

09-11-2009, 10:13 AM

Forget the DVD, get the Blu-ray version(I know you meant Blu-ray Tex). It is a reference concert video with reference PQ and AQ. I loved it and gave it a perfect score.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1900&show=review
Yup. Meant the BD version. So I own a Blue-ray reference disk that only cost me, IIRC, $20 some-odd bucks. COOL!

Some could call me that too with 3 Vizio in the house now. But my choice came down to daily use and most bang for the buck. If I had a dedicated HT room, I would have went with a Projector or Plasma.
Well, I wouldn't call you a fanboy. And I certainly wouldn't call you stupid either. That label's reserved. :smilewinkgrin:

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-11-2009, 03:03 PM

Some could call me that too with 3 Vizio in the house now. But my choice came down to daily use and most bang for the buck. If I had a dedicated HT room, I would have went with a Projector or Plasma.

You are not a fan boy because you are real about your purchase. You are not pretending that you are getting video perfection from a budget product with known performance issues. You purchased what your budget dictated, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's when you are in denial, making up lies, and denying test after test after test results by sticking your head in the sand that makes you a fanboy. We only have one of those on this site that I notice.

pixelthis

09-14-2009, 12:56 PM

You're too stupid to be a fanboy.

Congrats on your purchase(s) recoveryone! :thumbsup:

If you're a Rush fan and into concert DVD's, I highly recommend Rush's latest: Snakes & Arrows Live. IMO it really pushes the capabilities of my PS3 from a visual AND audio standpoint. The audio track is DTS-HD MA, which is hands down my favorite Lossless format.

Enjoy!

Not stupid enough to buy a Firebird however, or anything from a fly by night chinese
electronics co..:1:

pixelthis

09-14-2009, 01:03 PM

You are not a fan boy because you are real about your purchase. You are not pretending that you are getting video perfection from a budget product with known performance issues. You purchased what your budget dictated, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's when you are in denial, making up lies, and denying test after test after test results by sticking your head in the sand that makes you a fanboy. We only have one of those on this site that I notice.

And that would be you.
Truth is that I have been around this long enough that I have figured out, that what Sam
Clemens said about statistics also aplies to most "tests".
Truth is there is little difference between results in most of these "tests", nothing the human eye can discern, anyway.
And in these hard economic times people either dont have the cash or credit to blow
on something that they can live without, in this case specs that you would need
several thousand dollars worth of equipment to detect.
The only "lab" I am concerned with is my two eyes, and if it were just me, fine, but everybody I know with a Vizio loves it, not one dissenting voice.
So you can blow your "tests" , I know the reality (or lack thereof) behind them.
AND THERE IS STILL NO SUCH THING AS "MOTION RESOLUTION".:1:

3db

09-15-2009, 05:01 AM

Rich-n-Texas

09-15-2009, 05:10 AM

Not stupid enough to buy a Firebird however, or anything from a fly by night chinese
electronics co..:1:
Twisting the facts again. Emotiva is an AMERICAN company, products assembled in China. Beating the same old dead horse huh dumbass. :nonod:

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-15-2009, 01:20 PM

And that would be you.
Truth is that I have been around this long enough that I have figured out, that what Sam
Clemens said about statistics also aplies to most "tests".
Truth is there is little difference between results in most of these "tests", nothing the human eye can discern, anyway.
And in these hard economic times people either dont have the cash or credit to blow
on something that they can live without, in this case specs that you would need
several thousand dollars worth of equipment to detect.
The only "lab" I am concerned with is my two eyes, and if it were just me, fine, but everybody I know with a Vizio loves it, not one dissenting voice.
So you can blow your "tests" , I know the reality (or lack thereof) behind them.
AND THERE IS STILL NO SUCH THING AS "MOTION RESOLUTION".:1:

I hope sand tastes very good to you because you head has been in it forever. A 1080p LCD panel will have a STATIC resolution of 1920x1080 pixels. We don't look at static images we look at moving ones. A LCD panel is a electro-mechanical device that has moving parts. These moving parts(shutters) are not instant or particularly precise. The liquid crystals take time to re-orient themselves to present a new image. During high motional action, these liquid crystals can fall behind in their continuous moving orientation which cases blurring of the image. That blurring causes the panels resolution to drop when images are moving. This is a fact, and the best you can do with this lie that there is no such thing as motion resolution is add ketchup or mustard to that sand you are continuously eating.

Since you use your eyes as a lab, then you better have perfect vision. We know you don't because you cannot seem to see motion blur, which is particularly a problem with your vizio panel.

A lot of people liked Apex products(they were cheap) but that doesn't mean the product was necessarily good. Right now consumers are more interested in buying things that fit their budgets, not necessarily products that perform well when used. The growth of Walmart is a testament to that.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-15-2009, 01:28 PM

Congrats. I bought a Vizio SV470M and really enjoy it as well. I bought it at Costco and the only display that could beat it was a Panny Plasma. It beat oother LCDsfrom Sony, LG and Samsung but to be fair, I don't f these other models were older. For the money its an awesome set. It would have cost me an additonal $500 dollars for a similar sized Panny Plasma which was out of my budget.

3db, a vizio panel has never beat any set from Sony, Samsung or LG. It has never happened. Vizio's television have continually finished at the bottom of the pack in both industry testing, and individual testing from A/V magazines.

On a side note, I read an HT review and the latest LCD beat a Panny Plasma in black resolution...a 1st for an LCD.

It actually beat it in color accuracy as well. I have to say, I knew this would happen when Pioneer exited the plasma market. They were the ones driving the advances in plasma technology.

pixelthis

09-15-2009, 02:06 PM

I hope sand tastes very good to you because you head has been in it forever. A 1080p LCD panel will have a STATIC resolution of 1920x1080 pixels. We don't look at static images we look at moving ones. A LCD panel is a electro-mechanical device that has moving parts. These moving parts(shutters) are not instant or particularly precise. The liquid crystals take time to re-orient themselves to present a new image. During high motional action, these liquid crystals can fall behind in their continuous moving orientation which cases blurring of the image. That blurring causes the panels resolution to drop when images are moving. This is a fact, and the best you can do with this lie that there is no such thing as motion resolution is add ketchup or mustard to that sand you are continuously eating.

Since you use your eyes as a lab, then you better have perfect vision. We know you don't because you cannot seem to see motion blur, which is particularly a problem with your vizio panel.

A lot of people liked Apex products(they were cheap) but that doesn't mean the product was necessarily good. Right now consumers are more interested in buying things that fit their budgets, not necessarily products that perform well when used. The growth of Walmart is a testament to that.

And you are a testament to the fact that evolution has passed some people by.
People liked APEX but not because they were cheap, my friends APEX DVD player
played every disc put into it, and lasted quite awhile. His kid poured a coke into it..
Most LCD sets have a response time of 4 milliseconds, well beyond the capability of the human eye, but thats no matter, it has been shown time and again that progressive images do not collapse to half res like interlaced pics do during movement, it just doesnt happen, in other words the "motion" res is the same as the "static" res.
If this werent the case then why did the computer industry go to progressive scan,
and give this as a reason?
For that matter why did the TV industry do likewise?
When you buy a higher line TV set you are not wasting your money, the pic is a little better,
but there is not this huge advance in PQ.
The law of deminishing returns kicks in, and there is a larger and larger price to pay for
smaller and smaller improvements.:1:

pixelthis

09-15-2009, 02:11 PM

Twisting the facts again. Emotiva is an AMERICAN company, products assembled in China. Beating the same old dead horse huh dumbass. :nonod:

And a Firebird is an american car half assembled by Canadian and American
workers, or rather was before the free market stepped in.
Doesnt matter who owns it, still made in China.
With that quality that only a dollar a day wage can inspire.:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-15-2009, 06:05 PM

And you are a testament to the fact that evolution has passed some people by.
People liked APEX but not because they were cheap, my friends APEX DVD player
played every disc put into it, and lasted quite awhile. His kid poured a coke into it..
Most LCD sets have a response time of 4 milliseconds, well beyond the capability of the human eye, but thats no matter, it has been shown time and again that progressive images do not collapse to half res like interlaced pics do during movement, it just doesnt happen, in other words the "motion" res is the same as the "static" res.
If this werent the case then why did the computer industry go to progressive scan,
and give this as a reason?
For that matter why did the TV industry do likewise?
When you buy a higher line TV set you are not wasting your money, the pic is a little better,
but there is not this huge advance in PQ.
The law of deminishing returns kicks in, and there is a larger and larger price to pay for
smaller and smaller improvements.:1:

I want everyone to see how stupid you denial is. If you really believe that LCD static images have the same resolution as moving images, do so at your own stupidity and ignorance (your a professional at both)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10020262-1.html

http://hdguru.com/will-the-2007-hdtv-you-choose-give-you-all-resolution-you-expect/187/

By the way idiot, the combining of two fields together have nothing to do with motion blur, or motion resolution. That is an issue of pixels twisting and adjusting themselves to allow light to pass through. Sorry you don't know the difference, but then you don't know the difference between a human tit, and a nipple on a babies milk bottle.

3db

09-16-2009, 05:15 AM

3db, a vizio panel has never beat any set from Sony, Samsung or LG. It has never happened. Vizio's television have continually finished at the bottom of the pack in both industry testing, and individual testing from A/V magazines.

It actually beat it in color accuracy as well. I have to say, I knew this would happen when Pioneer exited the plasma market. They were the ones driving the advances in plasma technology.

Really? Were you with me when I sat in front of the sets? You really come across as a pompous a?? I know what I saw and at moment in time the Vizio panel DID beat all the othe LCD displays there. I'm aware of the HT Magazine having bought it just because of the flat panel face-off test and it did beat out the Toshiba Regza as well. Man, what bee has got into your bonnet. Take a MYDOL and chill.

Rich-n-Texas

09-16-2009, 05:24 AM

I want everyone to see how stupid you denial is. If you really believe that LCD static images have the same resolution as moving images, do so at your own stupidity and ignorance (your a professional at both)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10020262-1.html

http://hdguru.com/will-the-2007-hdtv-you-choose-give-you-all-resolution-you-expect/187/

By the way idiot, the combining of two fields together have nothing to do with motion blur, or motion resolution. That is an issue of pixels twisting and adjusting themselves to allow light to pass through. Sorry you don't know the difference, but then you don't know the difference between a human tit, and a nipple on a babies milk bottle.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Man, I'm gonna have a tough time topping that one!

And a Firebird is an american car half assembled by Canadian and American
workers, or rather was before the free market stepped in.
Doesnt matter who owns it, still made in China.
With that quality that only a dollar a day wage can inspire.
Good grief. Here you have a chance to provide a benefit to the OP with meaningful posts, but instead you go way off-topic and talk about cars. You carry over your worthless swill from other threads (oh yeah, you're wrong in those threads too dumbass), and just keep right on blabbering in an attempt to defend yourself. You'll never learn.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-16-2009, 08:59 AM

Really? Were you with me when I sat in front of the sets? You really come across as a pompous a?? I know what I saw and at moment in time the Vizio panel DID beat all the othe LCD displays there.

Your dreamin, it has never happened. They have never made a panel that could beat a Sony, Panasonic or Samsung. The only thing that Vizio has beaten the other panels is in price, that is it. I have seen every model that Vizio has made since their inception tested again the models of the others at the Digital Testing Center in Hollywood. Vizio has ALWAYS finished at the bottom of the pack. It is only recently that Toshiba joined them in the basement. No need for name calling, we are all adults here. Our eyes are poor instruments for judging the picture quality, it takes testing instruments to do that. You can't just sit somewhere in front of a few panel when you don't know if they have been calibrated, or presented in a optimum environment for making an intelligent, accurate evaluation.

I'm aware of the HT Magazine having bought it just because of the flat panel face-off test and it did beat out the Toshiba Regza as well. Man, what bee has got into your bonnet. Take a MYDOL and chill.

Read the individual comments of the testers. Not one liked the Vizio. Look, you bought a Vizio bacause it fit your budget, and you said so right here

But my choice came down to daily use and most bang for the buck.

So there is no need to get angry and try and justify what you did. Sorry, I don't wear bonnets(and nobody has for at least a century), and we have a bee shortage in these parts, and I am not into pharmaceuticals. I certainly don't need them to chill. You need to chill, nobody is attacking you. Enjoy your set, because that is what it is all about.

GMichael

09-16-2009, 09:29 AM

Is it me, or does it seem a little frosty in here?:eek6:

3db

09-16-2009, 09:57 AM

Your dreamin, it has never happened. They have never made a panel that could beat a Sony, Panasonic or Samsung. The only thing that Vizio has beaten the other panels is in price, that is it. I have seen every model that Vizio has made since their inception tested again the models of the others at the Digital Testing Center in Hollywood. Vizio has ALWAYS finished at the bottom of the pack. It is only recently that Toshiba joined them in the basement. No need for name calling, we are all adults here. Our eyes are poor instruments for judging the picture quality, it takes testing instruments to do that. You can't just sit somewhere in front of a few panel when you don't know if they have been calibrated, or presented in a optimum environment for making an intelligent, accurate evaluation.

Read the individual comments of the testers. Not one liked the Vizio. Look, you bought a Vizio bacause it fit your budget, and you said so right here

But my choice came down to daily use and most bang for the buck.

So there is no need to get angry and try and justify what you did. Sorry, I don't wear bonnets(and nobody has for at least a century), and we have a bee shortage in these parts, and I am not into pharmaceuticals. I certainly don't need them to chill. You need to chill, nobody is attacking you. Enjoy your set, because that is what it is all about.

What I'm upset about is taht you dismissed what I saw as not being possible. I watch aTV using DVD and TV and not some test set-up and in my evaluation, the Vizio beat everythign on that Costoc floor except for the Panny Plasma.

Furthermore, there were alot of positive comments made about the Vizio in teh HT review that would substantiate what I saw.

"The Vizio landed in fourth place overall for black level and shadow detail combined, just marginally behind the LG and in front of the Toshiba. True, the Vizio did tie with the LG for second place in shadow detail. "

"The Vizio’s color was controversial and brought out the most disagreement on the panel. One of those who rated its color tops praised its punchy yellows and reds (although possibly a bit too red with fleshtones) on Seven Years in Tibet. She also liked its “sharp, bright picture,” with “natural, bright blues on Fly Away Home” and “really vivid colors on Casanova. Eye-popping—this is exactly the kind of movie I would watch with this one.” The other judge who rated the Vizio high for color also praised the saturated hues on Casanova and The Dark Knight, as well as the set’s beautiful green, reds, and browns in Fly Away Home. "

"But a second-place finish in resolution did earn the Vizio some bragging rights. One panelist thought Seven Years in Tibet looked juddery and the detail too sharp, with some artifacts. He also thought the set had difficulty holding detail with motion. But he still gave it a respectable score. One of those who gave the Vizio’s color a high rating commented that the color made details pop, especially compared with the Sony’s paler colors—a clear reflection of how difficult it can sometimes be to isolate the various aspects of a video display’s performance. Another panelist commented on the clear textures on the temple walls in Seven Years in Tibet, along with its clarity in showing Brad Pitt’s scars and wrinkles! "

Yes there were negative comments too and I'm not saying Visio is the last word in displays. What I am saying is that teh Vizio did beat the other displays at Costco except for the Panny and if I had the money I would have purchased teh Panny over teh Vizio. None of the other LCDs at Costco could justify there mariganally higher cost with a lesser quailty picture compared to what the Vizio put out.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-16-2009, 10:46 AM

What I'm upset about is taht you dismissed what I saw as not being possible. I watch aTV using DVD and TV and not some test set-up and in my evaluation, the Vizio beat everythign on that Costoc floor except for the Panny Plasma.

Look man, you used just your eyes on sets that have not been calibrated sitting in a store with bright lights. Hardly the environment to make a critical evaluation on picture quality. This is akin to saying I did a critical listening test of several speaker in a airplane hanger with a jet going full throttle. Justifying your purchase on these grounds is lame, if not a bit naive.

Furthermore, there were alot of positive comments made about the Vizio in teh HT review that would substantiate what I saw.

"The Vizio landed in fourth place overall for black level and shadow detail combined, just marginally behind the LG and in front of the Toshiba. True, the Vizio did tie with the LG for second place in shadow detail. "

Keep in mind, this evaluation was made excluding the Panasonic and Sony televisions. So the Vizio was really competing with panels in the second tier, not the first tier.

"The Vizio’s color was controversial and brought out the most disagreement on the panel. One of those who rated its color tops praised its punchy yellows and reds (although possibly a bit too red with fleshtones) on Seven Years in Tibet. She also liked its “sharp, bright picture,” with “natural, bright blues on Fly Away Home” and “really vivid colors on Casanova. Eye-popping—this is exactly the kind of movie I would watch with this one.” The other judge who rated the Vizio high for color also praised the saturated hues on Casanova and The Dark Knight, as well as the set’s beautiful green, reds, and browns in Fly Away Home. "

Once again, an opinion based on the second tier of panels. But you forgot to add this

Shane Buettner: I'd like to say that the Vizio, the cheapest set in this face off , was the little LCD that could. But next to these other sets, I cannot say that the lowest price set yielded the best value.

Debbie Stampfli: While all of the experts in the room seemed to dislike the Vizio, I really enjoyed watching it. She also admits this: I am not a hometheater expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Claire LLoyd: In the color department, the Vizio was my initial favorite. However, after a couple of hours of its candy coated goodness, I came to appreciate the Sony's more realistic looking, natural palette.

"But a second-place finish in resolution did earn the Vizio some bragging rights. One panelist thought Seven Years in Tibet looked juddery and the detail too sharp, with some artifacts. He also thought the set had difficulty holding detail with motion. But he still gave it a respectable score. One of those who gave the Vizio’s color a high rating commented that the color made details pop, especially compared with the Sony’s paler colors—a clear reflection of how difficult it can sometimes be to isolate the various aspects of a video display’s performance. Another panelist commented on the clear textures on the temple walls in Seven Years in Tibet, along with its clarity in showing Brad Pitt’s scars and wrinkles! "

Remember its second place finish did not include either the Panasonic or the Sony. So it was second when compared to the 3rd, 4th, and 5th place panels. The person who commented on the colors was the least experienced in the group. John Higgins didn't even mention the Vizio in his comments, and Scott Wilkerson only mentioned that the Vizio held up well in a lit room.

Yes there were negative comments too and I'm not saying Visio is the last word in displays. What I am saying is that teh Vizio did beat the other displays at Costco except for the Panny and if I had the money I would have purchased teh Panny over teh Vizio. None of the other LCDs at Costco could justify there mariganally higher cost with a less quailty picture that Vizio put out.

It is not the last word in displays, but it does enjoy sharing last place. So the Vizio beat the other displays in Costco, hardly the Digital Testing Center. Costco does not carry more performance oriented brands, it carries the more budget oriented brands. So saying it beat the other displays is like saying at least it was better than a Proscan, Apex, and other budget low performing brands. Okay, I get that, but it does bolster my point that Vizio is aimed at the more budget conscious crowd, and not the more performance oriented crowd. Please do not say a Vizio panel beat the others at Costco. It sounds ridiculous when only your eyes are the testing equipment, the panels are not calibrated, and the viewing environment is very poor. Just admit that if you had more money, you would have purchased a better panel something you admit yourself.

Anyone looking for a quality - performance oriented panel is not going to Costco to get it. They will go to One-Call, Best Buys or other places that have a WIDE VARIETY of panels that have both performance oriented and budget oriented panels.

3db

09-16-2009, 01:46 PM

Look man, you used just your eyes on sets that have not been calibrated sitting in a store with bright lights. Hardly the environment to make a critical evaluation on picture quality. This is akin to saying I did a critical listening test of several speaker in a airplane hanger with a jet going full throttle. Justifying your purchase on these grounds is lame, if not a bit naive.

Keep in mind, this evaluation was made excluding the Panasonic and Sony televisions. So the Vizio was really competing with panels in the second tier, not the first tier.

Once again, an opinion based on the second tier of panels. But you forgot to add this

Shane Buettner: I'd like to say that the Vizio, the cheapest set in this face off , was the little LCD that could. But next to these other sets, I cannot say that the lowest price set yielded the best value.

Debbie Stampfli: While all of the experts in the room seemed to dislike the Vizio, I really enjoyed watching it. She also admits this: I am not a hometheater expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Claire LLoyd: In the color department, the Vizio was my initial favorite. However, after a couple of hours of its candy coated goodness, I came to appreciate the Sony's more realistic looking, natural palette.

Remember its second place finish did not include either the Panasonic or the Sony. So it was second when compared to the 3rd, 4th, and 5th place panels. The person who commented on the colors was the least experienced in the group. John Higgins didn't even mention the Vizio in his comments, and Scott Wilkerson only mentioned that the Vizio held up well in a lit room.

It is not the last word in displays, but it does enjoy sharing last place. So the Vizio beat the other displays in Costco, hardly the Digital Testing Center. Costco does not carry more performance oriented brands, it carries the more budget oriented brands. So saying it beat the other displays is like saying at least it was better than a Proscan, Apex, and other budget low performing brands. Okay, I get that, but it does bolster my point that Vizio is aimed at the more budget conscious crowd, and not the more performance oriented crowd. Please do not say a Vizio panel beat the others at Costco. It sounds ridiculous when only your eyes are the testing equipment, the panels are not calibrated, and the viewing environment is very poor. Just admit that if you had more money, you would have purchased a better panel something you admit yourself.

Anyone looking for a quality - performance oriented panel is not going to Costco to get it. They will go to One-Call, Best Buys or other places that have a WIDE VARIETY of panels that have both performance oriented and budget oriented panels.

Good put down champ. Makes ya feel good does it? Nevertheless it still displayed the best of remainin uncalibrated displays. Wow do u ever have a hate-on for this. And as usual, you dismiss every good thing siad about it. Least I acknowledge that all wasn\t perfect with this set. You remind me of pixelthis...just refusing to see the good points and focusing on the bad. Its kinda ironic too that the particular Vizio is their bottom line and still managed to beat out Toshiba.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Good put down champ. Makes ya feel good does it?

Sorry, but it wasn't meant to be a put down, but if you want to take it that way, more power to ya. This is the internet, and I don't really feel good or bad about it. My life isn't ruled by my emotions.

Nevertheless it still displayed the best of remainin uncalibrated displays.

The best IN YOUR EYES, not the best when it comes to critical testing and evaluation. Your opinion is not a rule or consensus. Even you admitted that if you had the money, you would have went for another set. So the reality is, this purchase was more governed by the money in your pocket, and not any real performance advantage over the other sets.

Wow do u ever have a hate-on for this.

I don't think you know me well enough to know if this is hate-on, or just accurate information to rebut your silly claim. You seem to want to "justify your love" for this set, when the reality is this is what you could afford. No problem, it rather easy to see through this veil.

And as usual, you dismiss every good thing siad about it.

That is because what good is said about it is nothing more than somebodies (a rather untrained somebody at that, and they admit it) revelation of their taste. They like a set with overly saturated colors, even if the color decoder was accurate. And being second amongst the 3rd, 4th and 5th sets in resolution is nothing to crow about, it was far behind the leaders of the pack. More testers hated this set than liked it, and that should tell you something about it. You need to be a hair more realistic and global, and stop trying to highlight things that attempt to make your point.

Least I acknowledge that all wasn\t perfect with this set.

You had no choice. The article pointed that out.

You remind me of pixelthis...just refusing to see the good points and focusing on the bad.

The difference between pixel and myself is that I know what I am talking about or I don't respond. He THINKS he knows what he is talking about and doesn't, and will deny any and everything that does not agree. For me, the good point was that Sony LCD's are finally catching (and surpassing) up to its plasma equal. I am not going waste my time glorifying a television that finished last, and only a fool would.

Its kinda ironic too that the particular Vizio is their bottom line and still managed to beat out Toshiba.

This is not really saying much. For the last three years or so Toshiba has been fighting Vizio for the title of most poorly manufactured set in the market. Since they rolled out the HD-DVD format, their televisions performance and quality has suffered greatly. I see no irony in that, it is just a fact.

pixelthis

09-16-2009, 08:50 PM

Really? Were you with me when I sat in front of the sets? You really come across as a pompous a?? I know what I saw and at moment in time the Vizio panel DID beat all the othe LCD displays there. I'm aware of the HT Magazine having bought it just because of the flat panel face-off test and it did beat out the Toshiba Regza as well. Man, what bee has got into your bonnet. Take a MYDOL and chill.

Welcome to my world, dealing with this looney, who claims his set is something
"the boys cobbled together" at work.
Doesnt matter how a set looks, dontcha know, its how the set performs in some rigged "test". And sir talky is talking about "twisted pixels" when the only thing twisted is his mind.
THE INDUSTRY giants keep inventing "tests" (nonexistant "motion resolution " being the latest) in order to knock down the industry leader in sales...VIZIO.
And the more they are cut down the faster their sets fly off the shelves.
Talky has a "crt", and its furstrating to such elitist snobs that the average viewer doesnt share their opinion about fuzzy, dim, phosper based tech like plasma and CRT.
These types think these type of displays are "better" because they more resemble the
phosper based sets they grew up with, they never bother to actually look at an LCD set
instead of slandering the tech.
Phosper based tech is limited by physics, there is only so much light a phosper dot can put out, and the smaller the dot the less light.
Phosper based tech has reached its limit.
Relics like Talky should be improving the new tech instead of pining away for the good old days.:1:

recoveryone

09-16-2009, 10:01 PM

Can a mod please lock this thread :(

3db

09-17-2009, 02:18 AM

The best IN YOUR EYES, not the best when it comes to critical testing and evaluation. Your opinion is not a rule or consensus. Even you admitted that if you had the money, you would have went for another set. So the reality is, this purchase was more governed by the money in your pocket, and not any real performance advantage over the other sets.

I never implied it was the best period. You did that all on your own and then tried to discredit what I saw as results at Costco. You did this not me. And yes I admitted to wanting a Plasma but not being able to afford it.

I don't think you know me well enough to know if this is hate-on, or just accurate information to rebut your silly claim. You seem to want to "justify your love" for this set, when the reality is this is what you could afford. No problem, it rather easy to see through this veil. .

And you weren't there at Costco with me so how would you know what I saw? Again, a blind assumption on your part led to all of this.

That is because what good is said about it is nothing more than somebodies (a rather untrained somebody at that, and they admit it) revelation of their taste. They like a set with overly saturated colors, even if the color decoder was accurate. And being second amongst the 3rd, 4th and 5th sets in resolution is nothing to crow about, it was far behind the leaders of the pack. More testers hated this set than liked it, and that should tell you something about it. You need to be a hair more realistic and global, and stop trying to highlight things that attempt to make your point..

Ditto. Its not all bad but you choose yet again to focus on all teh negative press. And once the said was calibratted, the color tracking was very stable. Leader of the packs were both the Sony and and the Panny. The other 3 three were really close in performance so much so that it is really difficult to pick a clear 3, 4, or 5 prize. I never claimed the Vizio to be a high end dsiplay. You assumed I did from what I saw at Costco. You jumped up and said "impossible" without knowing what the other models were. I kept saying Costco..not the industry.

The difference between pixel and myself is that I know what I am talking about or I don't respond. He THINKS he knows what he is talking about and doesn't, and will deny any and everything that does not agree. For me, the good point was that Sony LCD's are finally catching (and surpassing) up to its plasma equal. I am not going waste my time glorifying a television that finished last, and only a fool would...

The only fool is the one that assumes what the other saw. The only fool is the one assuming a store experience is supposed to be taken as industry standard. Only a fool would jump all over another without know what all the models were. Stop with all of your so called logical assumptions and get a better grip on your so called emotions.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-17-2009, 09:42 AM

I never implied it was the best period. You did that all on your own and then tried to discredit what I saw as results at Costco. You did this not me. And yes I admitted to wanting a Plasma but not being able to afford it.

Shifted to the victim mode huh. The last sentence is all you had to say. The first part....I don't get it. I know what you see at costco, I have been there. I know EXACTLY how they present their televisions. I also know that when they have a contract to push a certain panel products (Vizio), they will make the other panels look worse so it looks the best. You just simply pump up the contrast levels in the vizio, and lower the contrast on the rest. The store in my area got busted for that ruse when a person found that one panel was hooked up to component inputs(a Sony), and a Vizio hooked up to the HDMI inputs with its contrast pushed to the highest level.

And you weren't there at Costco with me so how would you know what I saw? Again, a blind assumption on your part led to all of this.

This is a bull statement. Costco's television displays are all the same. I have three Costco within 15 minutes driving distance, and all of their displays are identical. Its a cattle call of budget average and low performing panels on shelves, none calibrated, and under harsh lighting. That is not a condition to test anything, and certainly not to proclaim that the Vizio was the best looking panel. The reality is, you could AFFORD that panel, and not the others. Tell the truth, shame the devil.

Ditto. Its not all bad but you choose yet again to focus on all teh negative press. And once the said was calibratted, the color tracking was very stable.

Yes the color tracking was stable, but from the description of the color, it was oversaturating all of the primary colors. That is not accuracy, and it is nothing to crow about. Have you ever heard of the concept of balancing the comments?

Leader of the packs were both the Sony and and the Panny. The other 3 three were really close in performance so much so that it is really difficult to pick a clear 3, 4, or 5 prize.

Don't add to what the article actually said. Their 3,4 and 5 picks were the LG, vizio, and Toshiba. The article never claimed it was that difficult to choose them.

I never claimed the Vizio to be a high end dsiplay. You assumed I did from what I saw at Costco. You jumped up and said "impossible" without knowing what the other models were. I kept saying Costco..not the industry.

I made no assumption that you said anything. What I commented on was this lame testing method you choose to justify your purchase. And please, I know what models Costco sells, I go there every two weeks to pick up various things for my house. Please don't think you have an exclusive to their inventory.

The only fool is the one that assumes what the other saw.

You see the same thing that you see in every costco. The is no such thing as a high end costco with different brands of panels. Every costco has the same brands. As a person that shops there, I am no fool. Only a fool would use the excuse "it was the best looking, and it beat all of the rest", when their real motivation was that is all they can spend. I'm no fool, and I can see right through your bull man.

The only fool is the one assuming a store experience is supposed to be taken as industry standard.

Only a fool would put words in one's mouth. What I clearly said (for the English challenged) was a costco store is not a place to test anything, and our eyes are not testing equipment. I mention industry standards in the context that Vizio has not beaten another panel (except several other budget low performance LCD's)) at anything under critical testing. So it is very weird that an amateur would come here and pronounce that a Vizio bested televisions from the majors without looking at how the others were set up.

Only a fool would jump all over another without know what all the models were.

Man, this is getting tiring. You mentioned the other sets in your post, isn't this what you said:

It beat oother LCDsfrom Sony, LG and Samsung but to be fair, I don't f these other models were older.

Now do you feel foolish? Every year I go to the Digital Testing Center and watch them perform testing on every model of LCD panel, Plasma panel, and DLP television in the market. They have dismantled panels, and explain in depth why the panels finished in the place they did. Every year that I have gone, the Plasma's always finished above the LCD's., until this year. Among the LCD's, not one model whether high end or the low end of a vizio has ever been close to any model from Sony(the best performing LCD's) LG, or Samsung. Vizio's real competition is the Proscans, Magnavox's, Coby's, RCA, Avio, Auria, Sanyo, and Sharp LCD panels. All of these LCD's make the bottom of the list every year with the exception of Auria which just entered the market this year. So when jo schmo walks into a Costco as proclaims that a uncalibrated Vizio beats out a uncalibrated Sony, LG and a Samsung in their eye test, I immediately begin to wonder if that person is blind, naive or foolish. Costco and Walmart have contracts to push Vizio televisions, so it is in both Costco and Walmarts best interest to make a Vizio television look as good as it can on the showroom floor. How do you do that under harsh lighting conditions? You turn up the contrast plain and simple. At each of the three Costco's in my area, that was exactly the case. The vizio's where all contrast hot, and the other panels at more normal levels. That made the picture look more vivid to the untrained eye, and that is exactly what they are trying to accomplish.

Stop with all of your so called logical assumptions and get a better grip on your so called emotions.

So reading is not your forte' either. I believe that I clearly said this:

My life isn't ruled by my emotions.

What part of this escapes you?

3db

09-17-2009, 01:07 PM

Shifted to the victim mode huh. The last sentence is all you had to say. The first part....I don't get it. I know what you see at costco, I have been there. I know EXACTLY how they present their televisions. I also know that when they have a contract to push a certain panel products (Vizio), they will make the other panels look worse so it looks the best. You just simply pump up the contrast levels in the vizio, and lower the contrast on the rest. The store in my area got busted for that ruse when a person found that one panel was hooked up to component inputs(a Sony), and a Vizio hooked up to the HDMI inputs with its contrast pushed to the highest level.

This is a bull statement. Costco's television displays are all the same. I have three Costco within 15 minutes driving distance, and all of their displays are identical. Its a cattle call of budget average and low performing panels on shelves, none calibrated, and under harsh lighting. That is not a condition to test anything, and certainly not to proclaim that the Vizio was the best looking panel. The reality is, you could AFFORD that panel, and not the others. Tell the truth, shame the devil.

Yes the color tracking was stable, but from the description of the color, it was oversaturating all of the primary colors. That is not accuracy, and it is nothing to crow about. Have you ever heard of the concept of balancing the comments?

Don't add to what the article actually said. Their 3,4 and 5 picks were the LG, vizio, and Toshiba. The article never claimed it was that difficult to choose them.

I made no assumption that you said anything. What I commented on was this lame testing method you choose to justify your purchase. And please, I know what models Costco sells, I go there every two weeks to pick up various things for my house. Please don't think you have an exclusive to their inventory.

You see the same thing that you see in every costco. The is no such thing as a high end costco with different brands of panels. Every costco has the same brands. As a person that shops there, I am no fool. Only a fool would use the excuse "it was the best looking, and it beat all of the rest", when their real motivation was that is all they can spend. I'm no fool, and I can see right through your bull man.

Only a fool would put words in one's mouth. What I clearly said (for the English challenged) was a costco store is not a place to test anything, and our eyes are not testing equipment. I mention industry standards in the context that Vizio has not beaten another panel (except several other budget low performance LCD's)) at anything under critical testing. So it is very weird that an amateur would come here and pronounce that a Vizio bested televisions from the majors without looking at how the others were set up.

Man, this is getting tiring. You mentioned the other sets in your post, isn't this what you said:

It beat oother LCDsfrom Sony, LG and Samsung but to be fair, I don't f these other models were older.

Now do you feel foolish? Every year I go to the Digital Testing Center and watch them perform testing on every model of LCD panel, Plasma panel, and DLP television in the market. They have dismantled panels, and explain in depth why the panels finished in the place they did. Every year that I have gone, the Plasma's always finished above the LCD's., until this year. Among the LCD's, not one model whether high end or the low end of a vizio has ever been close to any model from Sony(the best performing LCD's) LG, or Samsung. Vizio's real competition is the Proscans, Magnavox's, Coby's, RCA, Avio, Auria, Sanyo, and Sharp LCD panels. All of these LCD's make the bottom of the list every year with the exception of Auria which just entered the market this year. So when jo schmo walks into a Costco as proclaims that a uncalibrated Vizio beats out a uncalibrated Sony, LG and a Samsung in their eye test, I immediately begin to wonder if that person is blind, naive or foolish. Costco and Walmart have contracts to push Vizio televisions, so it is in both Costco and Walmarts best interest to make a Vizio television look as good as it can on the showroom floor. How do you do that under harsh lighting conditions? You turn up the contrast plain and simple. At each of the three Costco's in my area, that was exactly the case. The vizio's where all contrast hot, and the other panels at more normal levels. That made the picture look more vivid to the untrained eye, and that is exactly what they are trying to accomplish.

So reading is not your forte' either. I believe that I clearly said this:

My life isn't ruled by my emotions.

What part of this escapes you?

I had enough of your blatant arrogance and stupidity and twisting of my words to suit your means. I'm tired of you. I pegged you correctly the first time. You are without a doubt , a pompous ass.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-17-2009, 01:32 PM

I had enough of your blatant arrogance and stupidity and twisting of my words to suit your means. I'm tired of you. I pegged you correctly the first time. You are without a doubt , a pompous ass.

And you sir are without a doubt a stupid ass. So where does this go from here?

The problem is that you just can't rebut what I have stated. So you take your doll and run home. Nobody twisted your words, you were being dishonest in what you are stating. The bottom line is this, you could only afford the Vizio and that is what you purchased. The other BS about the Vizio outperforming a Sony, Samsung or LG is just what it is....BS. End of story.

All of this you are a xxxxxxxxxx is just symptomatic of a lack of knowledge, and an inferiority complex.

3db

09-18-2009, 03:00 AM

And you sir are without a doubt a stupid ass. So where does this go from here?

The problem is that you just can't rebut what I have stated. So you take your doll and run home. Nobody twisted your words, you were being dishonest in what you are stating. The bottom line is this, you could only afford the Vizio and that is what you purchased. The other BS about the Vizio outperforming a Sony, Samsung or LG is just what it is....BS. End of story.

All of this you are a xxxxxxxxxx is just symptomatic of a lack of knowledge, and an inferiority complex.

Your approach of bull in a China shop doesn't work on alot of people if you haven't noticed. I guess we'll just keep slipping tee lab reports under your door for you to work on becuase of your total lack of people skill prevents you from interacting in a more civilized manner. Oh and when your done playing with the dollls, please tidy them up.

Inferiior complex?? Good one. I almost fell out of my chair laughing on that one.

Rich-n-Texas

09-18-2009, 05:54 AM

Where's dumbass. I got a new line I want to use on him. :ihih:

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-18-2009, 08:35 AM

Your approach of bull in a China shop doesn't work on alot of people if you haven't noticed.

You feeble attempts at online pyschology are not particularly keen either. The only person you have fooled with your phony eye test is yourself. The only person you have convinced that you got a good deal on a low performing television is your own foolish self.

I guess we'll just keep slipping tee lab reports under your door for you to work on becuase of your total lack of people skill prevents you from interacting in a more civilized manner.

Keep your report, you may need it to help you learn how to tell the truth, instead of faking the funk on why you purchased your set. Your silly amateurish eye test excuse just does not cut it when other people know better.

You don't know anything about my people skills, and you don't know anything about picking a decent television either.

Oh and when your done playing with the dollls, please tidy them up.

I'll leave the dolls to you, since you obviously know how to handle them better than I do.

Inferiior complex?? Good one. I almost fell out of my chair laughing on that one.

I thought you had already fallen out of that chair when you came here and said that a Vizio television was better than a Sony in your phony eye test. You must be blind as a bat, or a big fool for falling for the oldest marketing trick in the book.

Woochifer

09-18-2009, 11:26 AM

Costco's far from an ideal environment to do any kind of critical viewing, especially if you don't bother with adjusting the settings so that they are as comparable as possible. T correctly points out the old parlor tricks that go into the "showroom" mode, which might wow the viewer in a flood lit warehouse but will look like crap in normal home viewing.

Anyone about to embark on a TV shopping adventure should actually take the time and calibrate their current TV first using a calibration disc and color filter. Aside from improving the picture quality, it also familiarizes you with how the color balances, brightness, contrast, and sharpness are supposed to look at reference levels. Gaining a familiarity with how a calibrated picture looks will at least give you an educated perspective from which to adjust the sets at Costco and make the comparison as valid as possible under those less than ideal conditions. Just looking at TVs without calibrating them first would be like auditioning speakers with everything set at different EQ levels -- i.e., meaningless.

For the OP, if you're happy with your purchase, be happy. But, you're still well served by using a calibration disc to properly set the levels on your TV. Using the calibration disc, set the TV to the reference benchmark, and then adjust it to your preferences. Optimizing what you have is the best way to maximize the value in your system investment. The whole point of calibration is having a rock solid starting point that's consistent, something that eyeballing cannot give you with any degree of reliability.

GMichael

09-18-2009, 11:57 AM

recoveryone

09-18-2009, 01:10 PM

For the OP, if you're happy with your purchase, be happy. But, you're still well served by using a calibration disc to properly set the levels on your TV. Using the calibration disc, set the TV to the reference benchmark, and then adjust it to your preferences. Optimizing what you have is the best way to maximize the value in your system investment. The whole point of calibration is having a rock solid starting point that's consistent, something that eyeballing cannot give you with any degree of reliability.

Woo this thread has long gone off the reservation on page one, I never even seen the unit I brought in a store. I did my research online went out and talked to people (in Stores) did some comparison based on consumer reviews and critics and the most important part I looked in my wallet and said this will be the one. A break down of this madness that ended in the result:

1 May 09 55" Mtis 55805 HDTV 1080i died (2001 model) start weighing option of repair vs replacement.

2. June 09 Dell Projector 2100 DLP crashed and burned (a little help from my granddaughter pulling on the cord)

3.Search is on (visiting local highend shop on latest bells and whistles)

4. start assessing How much can I spend and willing to spend (drop 3K on the Mits back then)

5. Narrowing the field, I had to weigh in the size factor, I had the 55" mits for 8 years and was used to that size, but again cost/budget consideration may have to cut down to 52" or even smaller.

6. I was pretty much set on getting this 52" sharp Aquos 54 series, but was just waiting to look around a bit more.

7, Aug 09 My wife needed a new laptop for school (teacher), while on the dell site I see this Vizio being advertise. I start my negotiation with the other guy on a combo deal with the sharp, 1600.00 for the TV, stand and samsung BD player. But the more I read up on the sharp I was not really happy, only 60Hz motion a late 08 model vs 120Hz on the 09 models. 3 HDMI vs 5 HDMI on the Vizio. The deal breaker on the sharp was the reviews on the banding issues (lines that appear on the screen during panoramic shots) and Sharp knew about it and did not offer any fixes.

8. Sep 09 I order the Vizio, while still looking for more info I come across a site that offer off another $100 off on the Vizio. And when I placed the order Dell said it was out of stock, so I just left it alone for a day or so until I get this e-mail from Dell saying my order is complete and shipped.

9. by the way I have calibrated all of my TV's with the DV Essentials disk, thanks to people like my fellow AR peeps that pass on info like this to help each other get the most out of our HT.

10. I may not post a lot, but I do stop by often and I still hold the oldest member date on here lol, so some of you new guys should take it easy and sit back and take all this in for a while before you get into a pissing match over dumb stuff. most of us here are average Joes that really enjoy HT/2channel music and many of our beliefs are from years of experience with gear. And there are those in here that have the privilege to work in this industry and give us a heads up on whats coming down the pipe. We learn more by sharing than by proving I'm right and not being overly sensitive when facts are being presented to state ones point of view.

Woochifer

09-18-2009, 02:09 PM

Hey Wooch,

Do you have any suggestions for a good (read cheap) calibration disc & filter? Would these work for a projector too?

Thanks,

Mike

Cheap would mean going with a DVD rather than a Blu-ray calibration disc. Nothing wrong with that. Just make sure that you upscale the signal to your TV's native resolution.

The disc selection includes the usual suspects: Digital Video Essentials, Avia, and (if you can still find it) the Sound & Vision Home Theater Setup disc.

The cheapest alternative would be to use the THX Optimode video patterns found on THX certified DVDs, and mail order the blue filter from THX (I believe they'll send it to you for free with a SASE). Problem with the Optimode tests is that they are inconsistent from title to title.

The advantage of using one of the Blu-ray calibration discs is that you can view the test patterns in high def. But, the core tests, like those for color balance and contrast, don't require HD resolution. Also, the Blu-ray calibration discs include audio tests for the newer lossless formats.

pixelthis

09-18-2009, 02:15 PM

Where's dumbass. I got a new line I want to use on him. :ihih:

TALKING TO YOURSELF AGAIN?
Not long for the farm, but dont worry, maybe they will let you take your "blowup betty"
with you this time.:1:

3db

09-19-2009, 05:32 PM

Costco's far from an ideal environment to do any kind of critical viewing, especially if you don't bother with adjusting the settings so that they are as comparable as possible. T correctly points out the old parlor tricks that go into the "showroom" mode, which might wow the viewer in a flood lit warehouse but will look like crap in normal home viewing. .

Maybe thats what happened to me but I am pleased with my set. I don't like T's approach of just dismissing what I saw without reasons and only once we started mincing words did he indicate the parlour trick. Too late at that point. I still find him arrogant and I do not like the way he's treated others in this thread. T is right about plasma over LCD but he's got this holier than thow attitude and for whatever reason he thinks he's allowed to degrade people here that go against his opinion. He is a pompous ass and arrogant to boot and everytime he's gonna flame someone now, I'm going to be on him like glue.

For the OP, if you're happy with your purchase, be happy. But, you're still well served by using a calibration disc to properly set the levels on your TV. Using the calibration disc, set the TV to the reference benchmark, and then adjust it to your preferences. Optimizing what you have is the best way to maximize the value in your system investment. The whole point of calibration is having a rock solid starting point that's consistent, something that eyeballing cannot give you with any degree of reliability.

I agree with calibration but most places who sell displays do not sell calibrated sets. I fully beleive in calibration and once the money bleeding stops, I'll get my Vizio calibrated as well.

pixelthis

09-20-2009, 01:32 AM

Good put down champ. Makes ya feel good does it? Nevertheless it still displayed the best of remainin uncalibrated displays. Wow do u ever have a hate-on for this. And as usual, you dismiss every good thing siad about it. Least I acknowledge that all wasn\t perfect with this set. You remind me of pixelthis...just refusing to see the good points and focusing on the bad. Its kinda ironic too that the particular Vizio is their bottom line and still managed to beat out Toshiba.

Give me an hour and I will tell you about Toshiba...
Everything I have ever had Tosh has either failed or underperformed...
everything
The thing talky doesnt understand is that not even all PQ perfectionists either want or need a lab grade monitor, after the point of diminishing returns every little increment
of improvement costs more and more.
Vizio is not the best by a long margin, but they are a good compromise of decent PQ FOR
A GOOD VALUE.
I would rather spend my dough on audio, unless you're super rich life is a series of trade offs.
If we all had unlimited funds we would all have uber-perfect systems, but even in good times that is not the case, and these are certainly not good times by any strech of the imagination.
My extra paycheck and my vacation pay was going into my new receiver I had picked
out, but two months unemployment put paid to that.
Sometimes you have to make choices, and for the price VIZIO is a good quality set.
Mine is going on its second year, and still gets rave reviews.:1:

Luvin Da Blues

09-20-2009, 03:30 AM

Hey Wooch,

Do you have any suggestions for a good (read cheap) calibration disc & filter? Would these work for a projector too?

Thanks,

Mike

This is what I use and on sale to boot.....

http://www.dvdinternational.com/pd_digital_video_essentials.cfm

pixelthis

09-21-2009, 02:51 AM

This is what I use and on sale to boot.....

http://www.dvdinternational.com/pd_digital_video_essentials.cfm

FINE IF YOU HAVE AN ANALOG SET(thats why its so cheap).
Although I am sure some tests will work with digital sets.:1:

GMichael

09-21-2009, 05:31 AM

This is what I use and on sale to boot.....

http://www.dvdinternational.com/pd_digital_video_essentials.cfm
Cool. Thanks,

It looks like Amazon is having a sale on it too. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1253539598&sr=8-1

Pix,

This says that it's a "Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics [Blu-ray] (2008)" Why are you saying that it's for analog sets?

Wooch,

I'll look into the ones you mentioned too, before buying anything. Thanks,

pixelthis

09-21-2009, 09:45 PM

Cool. Thanks,

It looks like Amazon is having a sale on it too. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1253539598&sr=8-1

Pix,

This says that it's a "Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics [Blu-ray] (2008)" Why are you saying that it's for analog sets?

Wooch,

I'll look into the ones you mentioned too, before buying anything. Thanks,

The link I got said NTSC DVD.
Will probably work with HD tho.:1:

pixelthis

09-21-2009, 09:49 PM

pixelthis

09-21-2009, 09:50 PM

Okay, its by Joe Kane...good enough for me.:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-22-2009, 08:40 AM

Maybe thats what happened to me but I am pleased with my set. I don't like T's approach of just dismissing what I saw without reasons and only once we started mincing words did he indicate the parlour trick. Too late at that point. I still find him arrogant and I do not like the way he's treated others in this thread. T is right about plasma over LCD but he's got this holier than thow attitude and for whatever reason he thinks he's allowed to degrade people here that go against his opinion. He is a pompous ass and arrogant to boot and everytime he's gonna flame someone now, I'm going to be on him like glue.

My reasons even before the parlour trick were well stated. Because you have allowed you emotions to interupt your reading skills, I guess you have missed them. The television was essentially dissed by the reviewers in the article, four hated it. Three reviewers did not bother to comment on the set. The set finished second amoungst the SECOND tier of televisions in resolution. While the television had excellent color tracking (pretty easy for even a cheap television) its color intensity was not even close to accurate or it would not have been best described as "eye candy". This television motion resolution at 330 lines is amoungst the lowest in the industry, and the only television it was able to beat was a poor performing Toshiba set. There is nothing to crow about here, unless you are trying to justify a poor choice, or your expection are in line with reality. This was all stated before I even mentioned the palour trick. Get the shyt out of your eyes and read the post, think, and then respond.

As far as your opinion of me, don't care. And we will see just how good your glue sticks, but I have a feeling based on what you have presented here, that it is a VERY weak version of Elmers kids glue.

bobsticks

09-22-2009, 09:10 AM

Can't we all just get along...lol...?

pixelthis

09-22-2009, 02:34 PM

Can't we all just get along...lol...?

Sure, when everybody agrees with me:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-22-2009, 02:54 PM

Sure, when everybody agrees with me:1:

Not a snowballs chance in hell!

3db

09-23-2009, 02:54 AM

My reasons even before the parlour trick were well stated. Because you have allowed you emotions to interupt your reading skills, I guess you have missed them. The television was essentially dissed by the reviewers in the article, four hated it. Three reviewers did not bother to comment on the set. The set finished second amoungst the SECOND tier of televisions in resolution. While the television had excellent color tracking (pretty easy for even a cheap television) its color intensity was not even close to accurate or it would not have been best described as "eye candy". This television motion resolution at 330 lines is amoungst the lowest in the industry, and the only television it was able to beat was a poor performing Toshiba set. There is nothing to crow about here, unless you are trying to justify a poor choice, or your expection are in line with reality. This was all stated before I even mentioned the palour trick. Get the shyt out of your eyes and read the post, think, and then respond.

As far as your opinion of me, don't care. And we will see just how good your glue sticks, but I have a feeling based on what you have presented here, that it is a VERY weak version of Elmers kids glue.

What I got out of that read is that the 2nd tier set were so close in scoring that on another day, it could have been a different outcome and out of that 2nd tier, nobody was really strong. Thats how far back they placed behind the Sony and the Panny. I also don't like being told I was dreaming when saw what I saw. Having the parlour tricks doesn't take away the reality of what I saw. Its an illusion yes and maybe a little more TACT on your part could have avoided all of this ****e by mentioning that instead of going the personal route and saying I was dreaming and there is no way the Vizio could beat.....blah blah blah.

Part of flames on this site and I'm not pointing at you alone is that people come on here and without tact or respect throw out their **** without even thinking of how it could be interpreted. Maybe in a conversation, it would not come across like this. but reading info in a forum like this is all about interpreratattion. More thought should be put down before blowing off a few rounds just to see one talk.

GMichael

09-23-2009, 06:20 AM

OKAY DOKEY.
Here is the linky for the Blu edition.
THEY HAVE ONE of each, the blu version is ten bucks more.
Don't know iffen its any different.:1:

http://www.dvdinternational.com/pd-dve-hd-basics-blu-ray.cfm
I'm thinking that I might just go with the DVD. Not to save money though. The BR one is pretty cheap on Amazon, but I have 3 displays in my house and only 1 PS3. I don't feel like bringing it room to room to do all three.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-23-2009, 10:09 AM

What I got out of that read is that the 2nd tier set were so close in scoring that on another day, it could have been a different outcome and out of that 2nd tier, nobody was really strong.

Apparently what you got out of this, and what it actually said are two different things. What is more telling is that only one person really commented on the set, another said it was not a good value, and the other three did not comment at all. This is from the individual comments. The editorial part only gave props to two areas, second in resolution amoungst the second tier sets, and an accurate color decoder. We are talking the second tier!

Thats how far back they placed behind the Sony and the Panny. I also don't like being told I was dreaming when saw what I saw.

You were dreaming. When you say that a Vizio television "tested" better ( and that is what you said) than a Sony and a Samsung (two companies that have advanced LCD technology further than anyone else throughout their entire product line) you are either dreaming, or blind as a bat. Maybe this is just a poor choice of words, or maybe you just don't know what picture quality is. You are not alone, a lot of folks don't.

Having the parlour tricks doesn't take away the reality of what I saw. Its an illusion yes and maybe a little more TACT on your part could have avoided all of this ****e by mentioning that instead of going the personal route and saying I was dreaming and there is no way the Vizio could beat.....blah blah blah.

Your reality was directly influenced by the palour trick, and that was by design. It is not really helpful for you to dictate how someone is supposed to respond. You are not God, and everyone has the own way of communicating. Since you started down this road, if you had just checked the Vizio more carefully before comming to a public forum with your misguided observations, this mess could have been avoided. Actually, I was more interested in your comments, that is what I attacked. You attacked me personally with all of this arrogant and pompous crap, stuff that neither concerns or moves me.

Part of flames on this site and I'm not pointing at you alone is that people come on here and without tact or respect throw out their **** without even thinking of how it could be interpreted.

Part of why people get flamed here is because they make uneducated and outrageous claims that are not supported by science or good common sense. If you want a country club environment so you can expouse your unscientific claims, create one. This place ain't it, and never has been.

Maybe in a conversation, it would not come across like this. but reading info in a forum like this is all about interpreratattion. More thought should be put down before blowing off a few rounds just to see one talk.

Once again, before you make outrageous claims, pehaps a little more investigation on your behalf is in order. When you made your claim, it looked to me like you were just trying to justify your purchase, and nothing more.

Just to make my point. My best friend and I went to two Costco's over the weekend. One in Santa Barbara, the other in Richmond. When we walked into the store, I told my friend to take a good look at ALL of the televisions, and tell me what he observed. In less than a minute he said all of the Vizio televisions looked brighter than the other models. Bingo!

3db

09-24-2009, 04:39 AM

You were dreaming. When you say that a Vizio television "tested" better ( and that is what you said) than a Sony and a Samsung (two companies that have advanced LCD technology further than anyone else throughout their entire product line) you are either dreaming, or blind as a bat. Maybe this is just a poor choice of words, or maybe you just don't know what picture quality is. You are not alone, a lot of folks don't. !

I didn't say tested better..I said beat out the other displays and that was what I saw at Costco.. I was simply relaying what I saw..

Your reality was directly influenced by the palour trick, and that was by design. It is not really helpful for you to dictate how someone is supposed to respond. You are not God, and everyone has the own way of communicating. Since you started down this road, if you had just checked the Vizio more carefully before comming to a public forum with your misguided observations, this mess could have been avoided. Actually, I was more interested in your comments, that is what I attacked. You attacked me personally with all of this arrogant and pompous crap, stuff that neither concerns or moves me. !

I felt attacked/dismissed when you told me I was dreaming. hence the reason for the attack.. The thing is I was relaying what I saw at Costco from my personal experience. And how do you check the displays more carefully that are on display at a store? Its not like the public are given access to the remotes and even then, the sets are most likely not calibrated. Does one not purchase a display based on what they see? I was careful to look for detail and motion blurr, made sure skin tones looked natural etc.. not what picture shone the brightest.

Once again, before you make outrageous claims, pehaps a little more investigation on your behalf is in order. When you made your claim, it looked to me like you were just trying to justify your purchase, and nothing more. !

Once again, you make the mistake of interpreting incorrectly, an observation that I made while viewing displays and thinking that I had said tested. It was an observation, nothing more nothing less. Stop reading more into whats said or not said for that matter.

Just to make my point. My best friend and I went to two Costco's over the weekend. One in Santa Barbara, the other in Richmond. When we walked into the store, I told my friend to take a good look at ALL of the televisions, and tell me what he observed. In less than a minute he said all of the Vizio televisions looked brighter than the other models. Bingo!

Its a possible point... However have you considered that the displays are thrown onto the shelf without calibration? I've read on another site where Vizio was reffered to as light canons which I take to mean that they are caplable of very bright display. Could it be a possibility that the Vizio out of the box is just brighter than teh other LCD out of their box and without adjusting the levels, the Vizios will always show brighter?

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-24-2009, 10:05 AM

I didn't say tested better..I said beat out the other displays and that was what I saw at Costco.. I was simply relaying what I saw..

It was more like bright out than beat out. This implies some sort of competition, a competition where the Vizio was given 40 yard head start in a 50 yard dash.

I felt attacked/dismissed when you told me I was dreaming. hence the reason for the attack.. The thing is I was relaying what I saw at Costco from my personal experience. And how do you check the displays more carefully that are on display at a store? Its not like the public are given access to the remotes and even then, the sets are most likely not calibrated. Does one not purchase a display based on what they see? I was careful to look for detail and motion blurr, made sure skin tones looked natural etc.. not what picture shone the brightest.

I was not interested in attacking you, but your words are a different story. How do you check displays in a store? You ask the salesman why is xx television brighter than the others. Then ask him if you can see the settings. This is how I found out about the practice in Costco and Walmart, by asking instead of assuming. Brightness affects your ability to dectect details and spot motion blur, and can hide issues with skin tones. Turn it up and you can hide a multitude of sins. You may not have been looking at brightness, but it was sure looking at you.

Once again, you make the mistake of interpreting incorrectly, an observation that I made while viewing displays and thinking that I had said tested. It was an observation, nothing more nothing less. Stop reading more into whats said or not said for that matter.

No I did not make a mistake of interpreting anything incorrectly. It does not make a difference whether it was tested or observed, with all things being equal a basic observation would not have ANY Vizio outperforming a Sony or Samsung unless things were not equal. Since I already know they are not equal, there is no way your observation was not influenced by other things, such as the brightness level. Based on the testing I have seen on Vizio panels over the years, there is no way that your casual observation could have been even close to correct. That is unless the practice of turning up the brightness was done, and since I know for a fact it is, then it did not matter if you said test or observation the conclusion would have been the same.

Its a possible point... However have you considered that the displays are thrown onto the shelf without calibration?

I already stated this point, so I don't know why you are asking this. Everyday I go to work I look at LCD's and Plasma's that are correctly calibrated, so I know by eye when things are not right, and when they are. When I go to Costco, I know their panels are not calibrated because they do not look right to my eye.

I've read on another site where Vizio was reffered to as light canons which I take to mean that they are caplable of very bright display. Could it be a possibility that the Vizio out of the box is just brighter than teh other LCD out of their box and without adjusting the levels, the Vizios will always show brighter?

That could be a possibility if I didn't actually check the settings myself. Unlike yourself, I ask to look at the settings. In every case I checked the settings on the Vizio's were set MUCH higher than the other panels. Light cannons have the ability to hide their weaknesses, which is why I have asked the sales guys at Costco to turn the panel settings down, so I can see how it compares with the rest on equal footing. Ask and you shall receive, seek and you will find. Don't ask and don't seek, and you get easily fooled as you have now found out.

3db

09-24-2009, 10:54 AM

It was more like bright out than beat out. This implies some sort of competition, a competition where the Vizio was given 40 yard head start in a 50 yard dash.

I was not interested in attacking you, but your words are a different story. ....

WTF?? Stop distorting the truth. Its not my fault you assume what I mean and jump right on in the assumption without seeking clarification. And then once clarified you turn around and call me a liar?? Ever get out of your bubble??

That could be a possibility if I didn't actually check the settings myself. Unlike yourself, I ask to look at the settings. In every case I checked the settings on the Vizio's were set MUCH higher than the other panels. Light cannons have the ability to hide their weaknesses, which is why I have asked the sales guys at Costco to turn the panel settings down, so I can see how it compares with the rest on equal footing. Ask and you shall receive, seek and you will find. Don't ask and don't seek, and you get easily fooled as you have now found out.

On hindsight I should have doen all that you mentioned and I'll save it for the next time.The brightness level of my Vizio is I turned down alot and I'm very happy with its performance.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-24-2009, 12:39 PM

WTF?? Stop distorting the truth. Its not my fault you assume what I mean and jump right on in the assumption without seeking clarification. And then once clarified you turn around and call me a liar?? Ever get out of your bubble??

If I had to seek clarification, then your comments were not clear. Perhaps you should think about what you are going to say before you hit the submit button. That way nobody has to make any assumptions, or ask for any clarity.

Secondly when somebody says beat out, I would not associate that to an observation but a competition. Perhaps a different choice of words would have served you better in this case. It might also help if you take responsibility for what you say, and how you say it.

I do not believe I called anyone a liar, just ignorant. How you can get liar out of ignorance is beyond me, but I guess some people have enough string to tie them together.

I am not in a bubble, I am in my house. There is a difference just in case you did not know.

On hindsight I should have doen all that you mentioned and I'll save it for the next time.The brightness level of my Vizio is I turned down alot and I'm very happy with its performance.

Had you have just said this rather than going through all of the emotion machinations, this thread would not have turned this ugly. It might be good to save this as well.

3db

09-25-2009, 03:11 AM

If I had to seek clarification, then your comments were not clear. Perhaps you should think about what you are going to say before you hit the submit button. That way nobody has to make any assumptions, or ask for any clarity.

Secondly when somebody says beat out, I would not associate that to an observation but a competition. Perhaps a different choice of words would have served you better in this case. It might also help if you take responsibility for what you say, and how you say it.

I do not believe I called anyone a liar, just ignorant. How you can get liar out of ignorance is beyond me, but I guess some people have enough string to tie them together.

I am not in a bubble, I am in my house. There is a difference just in case you did not know.

Had you have just said this rather than going through all of the emotion machinations, this thread would not have turned this ugly. It might be good to save this as well.

Here is the reason why I find you so pompous and its shining through in spades right now with your last post. You will never ever admit to doing anthing wrong. You've implied that I've lied in this thread;

In post 09-18-2009, 05:35 PM "you need to learn to tell the truth" ????

You purposely twist your words in such an abigious manner.. how you interpret things doesn't make something not true. Look before you leap buddy. Th one thing I've learned from all of this is that you are a cowboy ready to shoot off a few rounds. Furthermore you are highly under quailfied to tell me how I should be clarifying myself. You are the only one out of 4 forums that I attend regualry that has given me such grief. Let those statistics sit in that thick cranium of yours for awhile and mull it over. Your not always right like you like to believe. I'm thru now. LIke a child, you will no doubt post back and cleanse yourself of all wrong doing. You may have last word if you like but this is my last post on this thread.

To the OP.. I aplogize for this going down an ugly path.

Sir Terrence the Terrible

09-25-2009, 01:27 PM

Here is the reason why I find you so pompous and its shining through in spades right now with your last post. You will never ever admit to doing anthing wrong. You've implied that I've lied in this thread;

In post 09-18-2009, 05:35 PM "you need to learn to tell the truth" ????

You purposely twist your words in such an abigious manner.. how you interpret things doesn't make something not true. Look before you leap buddy. Th one thing I've learned from all of this is that you are a cowboy ready to shoot off a few rounds. Furthermore you are highly under quailfied to tell me how I should be clarifying myself. You are the only one out of 4 forums that I attend regualry that has given me such grief. Let those statistics sit in that thick cranium of yours for awhile and mull it over. Your not always right like you like to believe. I'm thru now. LIke a child, you will no doubt post back and cleanse yourself of all wrong doing. You may have last word if you like but this is my last post on this thread.

Don't give me that implication crap, either I said it, or I didn't. If I did something wrong, I would have admitted it. Since it was you that was not clear in making your point, I will not take responsibility for that, you should. That fact that you are not shows that you have not grown to the point of personal responsibility, and you get what you get.

I do not care if you think I am pompous or whatever, the means nothing to me.

That whole last paragraph was a complete waste of time. Keep this in mind, It wasn't I that went out and got fooled by the oldest trick in the A/V book. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, other times it leads to a complete miss. You missed knucklehead, so don't cry about it, live with it.

To the OP.. I aplogize for this going down an ugly path.

Don't be sorry for being who you are.