Twister DTS: A Bit Overrated? A Review.

[Lexmark3200]

From Steven Spielberg's Amblin Entertainment and the makers of Jurassic Park and director of Speed and The Haunting comes Twister, and on DVD, it was pumped up and rumored to be one of the most aurally tempting treats to ever play back on a surround system.

There was supposedly an original version of this DVD out there, which included only a Dolby Digital track and no supplements; now, I purchased the so-called "Special Edition" (which does not say Special Edition ANYWHERE on the ugly Warner Bros snap case box---why do they make DVDs like this, Warner???) and along with making of features and a Van Halen music video comes a DTS track in 5.1. I was hoping this soundtrack would blow me through my sweet spot right through the back of my couch (after all, I AM waiting for Universal to send me the "corrected" version of Jurassic Park with the corrected LFE channel).....let me say this: the scenes where the twisters are whipping around and throwing debris everywhere (including a cow), the soundstage is awesomely alive----the wind whips through the surround channels and there IS a sense of tornado in your living room....but for a DTS track on the whole, this action flick --- which is rumored to be one of THE ultimate demo discs for surround sound -- falls kind of short on bass and overall "in-your-face"ness....I cant really put my finger on what is wrong.

Sure, there are moments when your sub will come to life and rumble when trucks are being thrown around in the twisters; but I read online that this DVD explodes with bass when the tornadoes are onscreen----and that just didnt happen in my system. And I know it cant be my sub, because during The Haunting DTS ES DVD, the doors of Hill House slamming shut makes my apartment bang and shake.

[kelsci]

Hi Lex; The first thing I was hoping was to get more detailed info from widescreenreview.com. They had brief reviews on the original and special edition for the non-subscribers. On the special edition, they gave a 5 plus on the DTS track.

From what I heard from people talking on various threads on various sites when the Spec Ed. came out, that the sound of both the D.D. 5.1 and the DTS 5.1 were supposedly nearly or virtually identical. There was a reason why this was so, but I cannot recall it. It might be mentioned on some other DVD review site floating around. It is also possible that Sir Terrance will know the significance of the transfers that took place on this disc and the few others that Warner released at that time that had both tracks. There is something about DTS tracks and their bass response of which one is supposed make an adjustment to their sub by 10 DB but I do not recall if it was an increase or decrease ALTHOUGH I believe one was supposed to increase the sub on a DTS track by l0 DB(the Jurassic Park DTS ordeal failed from a true recording miscalculation so nothing would help that). If I stumble over the correct answer somewhere I will let you know. The HAUNTING DTS version proves your system is working correctly. When D.D. first hit Best Buy here in Fla., I heard a sample of TWISTER in D.D. 5.1 on Pioneers first D.D. receiver and Eosone speakers. The scene shown was when the truck was under the small bridge. You could hear each piece of wood on the bridge claking against each other. One, I believe would not hear that type of sound from DPL, I did not hear it at home from tape from any center ch. setup I had at that time. KELSCI

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Twister does not contain much bass below 30hz. So do not expect the same kind of tactile bass that you get from The Haunted to appear on Twister.

Twister and the Lethal Weapon series are encoded at the highest bit rate for each format. Dolby uses 448kbps, Dts uses 1509kbps. The are also level matched so they can be directly compared without any adjustments.

On my system, with my ears, and in my room, the Dts version sounds slightly deeper in the bass, has a more coherent speaker to speaker soundfield. There is also a subtle refinement in the music with massed strings sounding more smooth. The Dts version also has slightly more inner detail.

It does say special edition in VERY small letter on the case.

[kelsci]

Your LORDSHIP; thanks for your info on that release. I knew WB had done something for the DTS and D.D. on that disc. So your explanation of level matching was the thing that WB did. It was interesting to find out that they used full DTS bit rate on that disc and their other special editions. I think SAVING PRIVATE RYAN was the first disc to halve the DTS bitrate which was successful. I appreciate your pointing out what exactly you heard from the two codecs that were level matched and deployed at their full bitrate on that disc. KELSCI

[Lexmark3200]

Twister does not contain much bass below 30hz. So do not expect the same kind of tactile bass that you get from The Haunted to appear on Twister.

Twister and the Lethal Weapon series are encoded at the highest bit rate for each format. Dolby uses 448kbps, Dts uses 1509kbps. The are also level matched so they can be directly compared without any adjustments.

On my system, with my ears, and in my room, the Dts version sounds slightly deeper in the bass, has a more coherent speaker to speaker soundfield. There is also a subtle refinement in the music with massed strings sounding more smooth. The Dts version also has slightly more inner detail.

It does say special edition in VERY small letter on the case.

Terrence,

Thank you and Kel for the replies; I was not aware of the kilohertz rating of Twister's bass, but I was expecting it to be deep based on what I read online; reviewers everywhere claimed the gutteral growl of the twisters could actually be felt, and so thats what I expected. While there is no lack of bass, it dissapointed slightly.

I read in another review that the Dolby Digital track of this DVD delivered deeper bass, contrary to your findings on your system and to your ears, as opposed to the DTS.

I could not find the Special Edition labeling on my DVD, by the way.

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Lex; The first thing I was hoping was to get more detailed info from widescreenreview.com. They had brief reviews on the original and special edition for the non-subscribers. On the special edition, they gave a 5 plus on the DTS track.

From what I heard from people talking on various threads on various sites when the Spec Ed. came out, that the sound of both the D.D. 5.1 and the DTS 5.1 were supposedly nearly or virtually identical. There was a reason why this was so, but I cannot recall it. It might be mentioned on some other DVD review site floating around. It is also possible that Sir Terrance will know the significance of the transfers that took place on this disc and the few others that Warner released at that time that had both tracks. There is something about DTS tracks and their bass response of which one is supposed make an adjustment to their sub by 10 DB but I do not recall if it was an increase or decrease ALTHOUGH I believe one was supposed to increase the sub on a DTS track by l0 DB(the Jurassic Park DTS ordeal failed from a true recording miscalculation so nothing would help that). If I stumble over the correct answer somewhere I will let you know. The HAUNTING DTS version proves your system is working correctly. When D.D. first hit Best Buy here in Fla., I heard a sample of TWISTER in D.D. 5.1 on Pioneers first D.D. receiver and Eosone speakers. The scene shown was when the truck was under the small bridge. You could hear each piece of wood on the bridge claking against each other. One, I believe would not hear that type of sound from DPL, I did not hear it at home from tape from any center ch. setup I had at that time. KELSCI

Thanks Kel; as I posted to Terrence, I was not aware that Twister was not supposed to deliver the same gutteral bass as, say, The Haunting, so perhaps thats where my dissapointment lay; and as I told Terrence as well, I read that some folks preferred the Dolby Digital soundtrack on Twister over the DTS because it actually delivered more bass.
When Terrence talks of the DD and DTS tracks on Twister and Lethal Weapon, is he saying that both films have DD and DTS tracks that were recorded at identical levels so they can be compared without touching the volume----that is, we can compare the Twister DD and DTS versions to each other and the Lethal weapon DD and DTS versions to each other?

As for your reply about demoing the scene with the car under the bridge, yeah, thats a pretty intense scene....you can hear that wind whipping around you through the surround channels; its pretty cool. Still, no bass in the scene, or very little.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Thanks Kel; as I posted to Terrence, I was not aware that Twister was not supposed to deliver the same gutteral bass as, say, The Haunting, so perhaps thats where my dissapointment lay; and as I told Terrence as well, I read that some folks preferred the Dolby Digital soundtrack on Twister over the DTS because it actually delivered more bass.
When Terrence talks of the DD and DTS tracks on Twister and Lethal Weapon, is he saying that both films have DD and DTS tracks that were recorded at identical levels so they can be compared without touching the volume----that is, we can compare the Twister DD and DTS versions to each other and the Lethal weapon DD and DTS versions to each other?

As for your reply about demoing the scene with the car under the bridge, yeah, thats a pretty intense scene....you can hear that wind whipping around you through the surround channels; its pretty cool. Still, no bass in the scene, or very little.

What is your LFE setting for Dts? I know that my setting are +0 for DD and +10 for Dts. While the bass isn't extremely deep, there is a great deal of bass between 30-50hz in all channels during the more intense scenes of the movie. By no means should be bass be weak, so I would check my settings.

[Lexmark3200]

What is your LFE setting for Dts? I know that my setting are +0 for DD and +10 for Dts. While the bass isn't extremely deep, there is a great deal of bass between 30-50hz in all channels during the more intense scenes of the movie. By no means should be bass be weak, so I would check my settings.

Perhaps that is what I was experiencing --- not weak bass per se, just not deep bass, which I was looking forward to after reading reviews about this DVD that claimed the tornadoes took on deep, gutteral growls of their own.

[kelsci]

Perhaps that is what I was experiencing --- not weak bass per se, just not deep bass, which I was looking forward to after reading reviews about this DVD that claimed the tornadoes took on deep, gutteral growls of their own.

Lex; I would follow his lordship's advice on that increase in bass that may be needed on the TWISTER DTS track. In my post, I could not remember whether it was plus or - l0db. It is plus l0db. Personally, this DTS-D.D. deal has created some "nuisances" that we have had to deal with. In my experiments, I am finding a few "things" going on between these two codecs and what may be an influence on them in imaging and bass. But that is another story for another day; MAYBE! KELSCI.

[Lexmark3200]

Lex; I would follow his lordship's advice on that increase in bass that may be needed on the TWISTER DTS track. In my post, I could not remember whether it was plus or - l0db. It is plus l0db. Personally, this DTS-D.D. deal has created some "nuisances" that we have had to deal with. In my experiments, I am finding a few "things" going on between these two codecs and what may be an influence on them in imaging and bass. But that is another story for another day; MAYBE! KELSCI.

Kel,

What do you mean "plus 10dB"? You mean you need to bump your sub's calibration plus 10 decibels when playing this DVD?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Kel,

What do you mean "plus 10dB"? You mean you need to bump your sub's calibration plus 10 decibels when playing this DVD?

Here is what you do, check the setting on your receiver(not the sub). There should be a button that allows you to set you LFE level for each format(Onkyo has this for a fact as I own one) Once you find the button that controls the LFE setting, set it according to the instructions that I gave in the above thread. If you feel the bass is loud enough, but not as deep as The Haunted, then I would say leave the setting as is. You are just not going to find anything much under 30hz on this soundtrack no matter which format you choose. I ran my 1/3 octave analyzer while playing both formats, Dts has more energy closer to 30hz than Dolby digital, while DD has more energy at around 50hz. This is not by much, but definately visible if not audible.

[Lexmark3200]

Here is what you do, check the setting on your receiver(not the sub). There should be a button that allows you to set you LFE level for each format(Onkyo has this for a fact as I own one) Once you find the button that controls the LFE setting, set it according to the instructions that I gave in the above thread. If you feel the bass is loud enough, but not as deep as The Haunted, then I would say leave the setting as is. You are just not going to find anything much under 30hz on this soundtrack no matter which format you choose. I ran my 1/3 octave analyzer while playing both formats, Dts has more energy closer to 30hz than Dolby digital, while DD has more energy at around 50hz. This is not by much, but definately visible if not audible.

Terrence,

I have to respectfully tell you that I do not know where this bass adjustment is for the Onkyo receiver with regard to setting individual format levels; can you identify this feature for me on my TX SR600?

[BrianUDLaw]

Terrence,

I have to respectfully tell you that I do not know where this bass adjustment is for the Onkyo receiver with regard to setting individual format levels; can you identify this feature for me on my TX SR600?

On your remote, you should have a "CH SEL" button, which allows you to adjust the level for each of your speakers. Cycle through that until you get to the LFE or Subwoofer, and use the Level increase/decrease buttons.

If you want to save your settings after you make changes to the speaker level, I think you have to push the "TEST" button and let it cycle through the test tones.

[Lexmark3200]

On your remote, you should have a "CH SEL" button, which allows you to adjust the level for each of your speakers. Cycle through that until you get to the LFE or Subwoofer, and use the Level increase/decrease buttons.

If you want to save your settings after you make changes to the speaker level, I think you have to push the "TEST" button and let it cycle through the test tones.

Brian,

Thanks for the post....here is the problem I have....sure, I can cycle through the CH SEL level adjustments until I reach subwoofer, but that just changes the OVERALL calibration for the sub (0, +1, 2, 3, 4, etc)....TERRENCE mentioned something about being able to change the subwoofer level for INDIVIDUAL FORMATS like DTS and DOLBY DIGITAL....is there a feature to do this? Right now, my sub, fronts and surrounds are all at "+6" on the calibration settings....

[kelsci]

Brian,

Thanks for the post....here is the problem I have....sure, I can cycle through the CH SEL level adjustments until I reach subwoofer, but that just changes the OVERALL calibration for the sub (0, +1, 2, 3, 4, etc)....TERRENCE mentioned something about being able to change the subwoofer level for INDIVIDUAL FORMATS like DTS and DOLBY DIGITAL....is there a feature to do this? Right now, my sub, fronts and surrounds are all at "+6" on the calibration settings....

Hi Lex; Your question like many others you've asked is a real good one. I think there are some receivers out there that allow separate calibrations for D.D. and DTS. I do not remember who has this feature. If your receiver had it, it would have indicated such in the manual. I am pretty sure my brother's Marantz 5400 does not have that feature.

I do not know if I can personally help you here so I will try to give you a possible solution(s). If your sub has to be l0 db higher playing DTS for the bass, than the +6 figure on your receiver for the subwoofer output must be greater by some amount other than +6. I think one solution might be that for those who got a specfic calibration with a RS meter would have to use the RS meter with the same means of testing that arrived at the orginal +6 on that meter which I gather was 75db and increase the output on your receivers sub-out to 85db and note if that reading was +7 or higher. When you play future DVDs with DTS, you will set that output to the increased value. When you are finished with a disc, return the subwoofer section output of the receiver to +6.

The above could become a slight "pain in the ass". A simple solution would be to get to the receivers +6 sub-put setting and increase the bass on a DTS disc till if just satisfies you. Suppose you did this and you hit +8 as the satisfying ouput. Use than in the future when playing DTS and when your finished, go back and reset your sub-out on your receiver to +6.

Perhaps down the road when receivers have these new auto adjusting devices with a mic. this might be a thing of the past. It would also be better if possible that DTS record their movies on the bass end to the Dolby Digital standard, but I do not know if that is possible to do with its codec and if so, would it work properly.

Hopefully, some others might answer your question like Terrence, Brian and I believe on this board there is Doc Greene. I personally do not use any of these calibration methods, RS meters and the such. I play by ear and my sub set-up is more like the SVS passive sub- separate amp set-up which is a story onto itself. Kelsci

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Lex; Your question like many others you've asked is a real good one. I think there are some receivers out there that allow separate calibrations for D.D. and DTS. I do not remember who has this feature. If your receiver had it, it would have indicated such in the manual. I am pretty sure my brother's Marantz 5400 does not have that feature.

I do not know if I can personally help you here so I will try to give you a possible solution(s). If your sub has to be l0 db higher playing DTS for the bass, than the +6 figure on your receiver for the subwoofer output must be greater by some amount other than +6. I think one solution might be that for those who got a specfic calibration with a RS meter would have to use the RS meter with the same means of testing that arrived at the orginal +6 on that meter which I gather was 75db and increase the output on your receivers sub-out to 85db and note if that reading was +7 or higher. When you play future DVDs with DTS, you will set that output to the increased value. When you are finished with a disc, return the subwoofer section output of the receiver to +6.

The above could become a slight "pain in the ass". A simple solution would be to get to the receivers +6 sub-put setting and increase the bass on a DTS disc till if just satisfies you. Suppose you did this and you hit +8 as the satisfying ouput. Use than in the future when playing DTS and when your finished, go back and reset your sub-out on your receiver to +6.

Perhaps down the road when receivers have these new auto adjusting devices with a mic. this might be a thing of the past. It would also be better if possible that DTS record their movies on the bass end to the Dolby Digital standard, but I do not know if that is possible to do with its codec and if so, would it work properly.

Hopefully, some others might answer your question like Terrence, Brian and I believe on this board there is Doc Greene. I personally do not use any of these calibration methods, RS meters and the such. I play by ear and my sub set-up is more like the SVS passive sub- separate amp set-up which is a story onto itself. Kelsci

Kel,

I totally understand what you are suggesting here, that I should pump up the subwoofer dBs every time I play a DVD with lower bass; the thing is, I needed to LOWER the sub's output from "+7" to the current "+6" because on "+7" some extreme soundtracks---like Attack of The Clones and U571---were causing my sub to "pop" and "snap" when loud explosions took place during the films....I needed to cut back on the bass level so when playing DVDs at louder volumes the sub wouldnt snap....hence, I am now at "+6"....do you follow?

Thanks for your continued help.....

[kelsci]

Lex; Yes I follow. Only increase from your receiver on a DTS track and always return the sub out setting on your receiver to +6 after playing a DTS track.

[BrianUDLaw]

Brian,

Thanks for the post....here is the problem I have....sure, I can cycle through the CH SEL level adjustments until I reach subwoofer, but that just changes the OVERALL calibration for the sub (0, +1, 2, 3, 4, etc)....TERRENCE mentioned something about being able to change the subwoofer level for INDIVIDUAL FORMATS like DTS and DOLBY DIGITAL....is there a feature to do this? Right now, my sub, fronts and surrounds are all at "+6" on the calibration settings....

Sorry for my confusion Lex...I misunderstood your question. My Onkyo receiver is about two years older than yours, but I do know that I am not able to set different sub levels for different formats. I have to slightly adjust the sub level when I change formats.

[Lexmark3200]

Lex; Yes I follow. Only increase from your receiver on a DTS track and always return the sub out setting on your receiver to +6 after playing a DTS track.

Kel,

But U-571 IS a DTS soundtrack----and on "+7" or higher the depth charge sequences were causing the sub to really crack and snap so I needed to lower it to "+6"....see, you mention that I should increase subwoofer calibration when playing DTS discs, but many DTS discs are what make my sub pop! So, by reducing the volume knob on the back of the subwoofer itself and lowering the calibration level to "+6" from "+7", I have seemed to reach a happy medium where films with very aggressive soundtracks, like Attack of the Clones (DOLBY DIGITAL EX) or even Gladiator (DTS-ES), won't snap the sub like they were before....BUT what happens now is that SOME DVDs dont have the same impact that perhaps they should.....as was my whole argument of Twister.....

[Lexmark3200]

Sorry for my confusion Lex...I misunderstood your question. My Onkyo receiver is about two years older than yours, but I do know that I am not able to set different sub levels for different formats. I have to slightly adjust the sub level when I change formats.

How do you go about doing this, by changing the sub decibels in the calibration menu? If so, what do you keep the value on, if I may ask? Mine is on "+6" for subwoofer.....

[BrianUDLaw]

How do you go about doing this, by changing the sub decibels in the calibration menu? If so, what do you keep the value on, if I may ask? Mine is on "+6" for subwoofer.....

I just use the method described in my earlier post. If your receiver has an on screen menu, this is not what I use, as mine does not have that featuer. I have my sub set at 0, but I've had it at +2 to -1.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Okay, I am getting confused here. Lex, I want you to understand me clearly. Do NOT reset your subs level from the sub itself. That calibration should remain 4-5db higher than the main speakers regardless of format.

Your receiver should have have a LFE adjustment button for each format. READ YOUR INSTRUCTION MANUAL TO FIND THIS BUTTON. If it is not covered in the manual, then your receiver must already compensate for each formats varing LFE level. If you have an Onkyo, then I am sure it is covered in the instruction manual. Once again, READ YOUR INSTRUCTION MANUAL, everyone receiver is slighty different in some way, so asking others probably won't get you the answer that you desire. It is also good to learn about your equipment for yourself(I think I have already conveyed this to you).

If the bass on twister is loud enough, but not "The Haunted" deep, MAKE NO ADJUSTMENT AT ALL. Twister has some pretty loud bass, however it is NOT deep as the haunted. The lowest reading I got from my spectrum analyzers was 25hz in the LFE, and that was a brief bump, and not very extended in time.

1. Do not mess with you individual speaker levels once they are calibrated.
2. Do not mess with the SUBS level control after you have properly calibrated.
3. DO consult your users manual for you equipment YOURSELF, and do not ask anyone else for info.
4. Look for LFE level control IN THE RECEIVERS MENU!
5. If it allows for seperate LFE levels for each format, set DD to +0, Dts to +10.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS?

[Lexmark3200]

Okay, I am getting confused here. Lex, I want you to understand me clearly. Do NOT reset your subs level from the sub itself. That calibration should remain 4-5db higher than the main speakers regardless of format.

Your receiver should have have a LFE adjustment button for each format. READ YOUR INSTRUCTION MANUAL TO FIND THIS BUTTON. If it is not covered in the manual, then your receiver must already compensate for each formats varing LFE level. If you have an Onkyo, then I am sure it is covered in the instruction manual. Once again, READ YOUR INSTRUCTION MANUAL, everyone receiver is slighty different in some way, so asking others probably won't get you the answer that you desire. It is also good to learn about your equipment for yourself(I think I have already conveyed this to you).

If the bass on twister is loud enough, but not "The Haunted" deep, MAKE NO ADJUSTMENT AT ALL. Twister has some pretty loud bass, however it is NOT deep as the haunted. The lowest reading I got from my spectrum analyzers was 25hz in the LFE, and that was a brief bump, and not very extended in time.

1. Do not mess with you individual speaker levels once they are calibrated.
2. Do not mess with the SUBS level control after you have properly calibrated.
3. DO consult your users manual for you equipment YOURSELF, and do not ask anyone else for info.
4. Look for LFE level control IN THE RECEIVERS MENU!
5. If it allows for seperate LFE levels for each format, set DD to +0, Dts to +10.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS?

Unfortunately Terrence, and as usual (but with great respect), I do not, in fact, understand you. Please, let us begin with this statement below:

"Do NOT reset your subs level from the sub itself. That calibration should remain 4-5db higher than the main speakers regardless of format."

What exactly are you referring to here? When you say "from the sub ITSELF" do you mean that VOLUME KNOB on the back of my subwoofer? That knob is about HALFWAY up right now; any higher and I get some bottoming out from bass during extreme soundtrack peaks. And then if you are in fact referring to the subwoofer VOLUME KNOB itself, what do you mean it should "remain four to five dBs higher than the main speakers"? How can I judge dB levels on a ROTARY VOLUME KNOB?

I have contacted Onkyo direct and read my manual HUNDREDS OF TIMES....they do not know of, nor do I, any feature which allows LFE levels to be INDIVIDUALLY set for DIFFERENT FORMATS----THE ONLY setting for subwoofer level comes via the CALIBRATION menu, where you cycle through until you get to "Subwoofer" and then you can set the dBs in 1 dB increments....RIGHT NOW, that level is on "+6" along with my mains and surrounds; the center channel is on "+8" but all that is irrelevant....what I am saying is that the subwoofer is set on "+6" on CALIBRATION LEVEL and the ACTUAL VOLUME KNOB ON THE BACK OF THE SUBWOOFER ITSELF is about halfway up.

[kelsci]

Lex; His Lordship has given you proper advice and in particular, DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING ON THOSE DARN SUBWOOFER CONTROLS ON THE SUBWOOFER CABINET. LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE.

In a way, you answered your own question by describing the +6 level as working for the MOST EXTREMEME LFE BASS that are found on D.D. and DTS tracks of which you sub will not make a "cracking" noise. We are talking about a disc here that you feel should have more bass response;TWISTER DTS. I am repasting on this thread what I said earlier. When you do the increase, it is done with the preamplified sub output of your receiver and its readout which is now at +6.The above could become a slight "pain in the ass". A simple solution would be to get to the receivers +6 sub-put setting and increase the bass on a DTS disc till if just satisfies you. Suppose you did this and you hit +8 as the satisfying ouput. Use that in the future when playing DTS tracks that are similar in nature to TWISTER and when your finished, go back and reset your sub-out on your receiver to +6. Kelsci

[Lexmark3200]

Lex; His Lordship has given you proper advice and in particular, DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING ON THOSE DARN SUBWOOFER CONTROLS ON THE SUBWOOFER CABINET. LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE.

In a way, you answered your own question by describing the +6 level as working for the MOST EXTREMEME LFE BASS that are found on D.D. and DTS tracks of which you sub will not make a "cracking" noise. We are talking about a disc here that you feel should have more bass response;TWISTER DTS. I am repasting on this thread what I said earlier. When you do the increase, it is done with the preamplified sub output of your receiver and its readout which is now at +6.The above could become a slight "pain in the ass". A simple solution would be to get to the receivers +6 sub-put setting and increase the bass on a DTS disc till if just satisfies you. Suppose you did this and you hit +8 as the satisfying ouput. Use that in the future when playing DTS tracks that are similar in nature to TWISTER and when your finished, go back and reset your sub-out on your receiver to +6. Kelsci

Thank you Kel; I understand completely what you are suggesting.....are you sure, now, that I should never touch the volume knob ON the sub itself?

Also, does it sound normal that I would need to bump up the sub's calibration to beyond "+6" in certain circumstances? Does that sound already too high? And during stereo music listening, I should note that this bass setting of "+6" does not seem potent enough when listening to CDs as there is almost no bass at all; does increasing the BASS on the "Audio Adjust" of a receiver affect the bass coming from a subwoofer? I thought it didnt.....

[kelsci]

Lex; If you touch that volume level on the sub I will just say it will confuse the calibrations that satisfy you at this moment and throw them off. I would try what I suggested thru the receiver. Scientifically, our ears become more bass sensitive as volume is increased. This is called the FLETCHER-MUNSON CURVE. Lex, put the TWISTER disc into your system and try what I suggested. The hell with the Decibels in this case. The idea is for you to be able to return to the setting that works well with the enormous LFE soundtracks. Kelsci

[dph1965]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

[kelsci]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

Dph1965; I am not the advocate or instigator of the +10 DB setting on the sub for DTS tracks. I think that his Lordship, Sir Terrance and a few other subwoofer advocates have indicated to do this with DTS tracks. Off the cuff, from what I have read or heard, the DTS LFE and bass response that was recorded on DTS movies required a l0 DB boost over D.D. settings because they were "recorded" for playback that way. To me, DTS has probably made a mess of things particulaly since most receivers do not allow you to make separate adjustements between the two tracks. DPH, I would do a discussion search on this forum on the top of this page. Hopefully, your question can be answered. Perhaps type in" l0 DB subwoofer" and see what that brings up. My sub set-up is two passive subs powered by a NAD 3040 int. amp's power amp section in conjunction with the sub output of my receiver. You can only play your subs "so loud" because if they are too loud, the stereo surround field is literally destroyed. I am pleased with my settings done by ear with everthing sounding in a more normal range on every soundtrack.

[Lexmark3200]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

I know what you mean about U-571....at "+6" the sub is already shaking apart during the depth charge sequences if the receiver is up to say 50 or so....if the calibration is above "+6" forget it....my 10" Polk cant handle it.....

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

I found the information in my owners manual of my receiver. The default position for Dts LFE was +0. My manual states " For correct LFE levels on Dts soundtracks adjust the LFE to +10db. For Dts music the correct LFE level is +0.".

Also read this thread on ecoustic forum that supports what I state.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/3/3746.html

Some receiver already do the compensation for the difference in LFE, and some do not. That is why I advise that you check your owners manual.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Dph1965; I am not the advocate or instigator of the +10 DB setting on the sub for DTS tracks. I think that his Lordship, Sir Terrance and a few other subwoofer advocates have indicated to do this with DTS tracks. Off the cuff, from what I have read or heard, the DTS LFE and bass response that was recorded on DTS movies required a l0 DB boost over D.D. settings because they were "recorded" for playback that way. To me, DTS has probably made a mess of things particulaly since most receivers do not allow you to make separate adjustements between the two tracks. DPH, I would do a discussion search on this forum on the top of this page. Hopefully, your question can be answered. Perhaps type in" l0 DB subwoofer" and see what that brings up. My sub set-up is two passive subs powered by a NAD 3040 int. amp's power amp section in conjunction with the sub output of my receiver. You can only play your subs "so loud" because if they are too loud, the stereo surround field is literally destroyed. I am pleased with my settings done by ear with everthing sounding in a more normal range on every soundtrack.

Kel,

I think things are getting confused here. The calibration of the sub, and the setting of the LFE levels are two distinctly different things.

The calibration of the sub involves setting the levels from the subwoofer level, utilizing the subs volume control. That should be set 3-5db higher than the main speakers.

Setting the LFE level involves going into the receivers menu and setting it according to your instruction manual. It is not the same thing as subwoofer calibration as it is done from the receiver, not the sub. I hope this clarifies things somewhat

[kelsci]

Kel,

I think things are getting confused here. The calibration of the sub, and the setting of the LFE levels are two distinctly different things.

The calibration of the sub involves setting the levels from the subwoofer level, utilizing the subs volume control. That should be set 3-5db higher than the main speakers.

Setting the LFE level involves going into the receivers menu and setting it according to your instruction manual. It is not the same thing as subwoofer calibration as it is done from the receiver, not the sub. I hope this clarifies things somewhat

Your Lordship; I use the system I spelled out in thread #28. I am satisfied with the way it performs. I have very little experience with powered subs per say that have the volume and bass intensity controls and as such I really give no advice nor go onto any threads involving subwoofers. This thread by Lex is the only case that reminded me of a possible solution to his problem that would make a possible altercation AT THE RECEIVERS SUB-OUT since it is easy to return to the orgininal setting. Because of your 2 above statements, I would be a fool to advise people on powered sub calibrations. Kelsci

[Lexmark3200]

Kel,

I think things are getting confused here. The calibration of the sub, and the setting of the LFE levels are two distinctly different things.

The calibration of the sub involves setting the levels from the subwoofer level, utilizing the subs volume control. That should be set 3-5db higher than the main speakers.

Setting the LFE level involves going into the receivers menu and setting it according to your instruction manual. It is not the same thing as subwoofer calibration as it is done from the receiver, not the sub. I hope this clarifies things somewhat

Wow, now I know Im lost, Terrence.....I was told before NOT TO TOUCH the subwoofer control on the rear of the subwoofer-----didnt you tell me that? What about the dB levels on the receiver's subwoofer calibration-----should THOSE be a couple of dBs higher than all other speakers?

[kelsci]

Lex; You have said that the current setting on your sub avoids cracking and snapping on certain powerful LFE effects soundtracks. I would think then that your sub is properly calibrated to function properly. There are all kinds of subs out there in the market. Some of them may handle LFE efffects better than the Polk that you own. Your receivers subwoofer output is set at some particular number. That number at this time is the number you stick with because it also contributes to the prevention of your sub bottoming out and cracking and snapping too. I am now going to recommend to you one particular thing; leave the subwoofer output setting on your receiver right where it is for all discs that you play. This means that you may on occassion have to listen to TWISTER just the way it now sounds on your system or any other disc that might be weak in low bass because they were recorded that way from the studio. I believe those are few and far between. At this point Lex, your system is calibrated well enough to use on any disc safely. Kelsci

[wasch_24]

Lex; You have said that the current setting on your sub avoids cracking and snapping on certain powerful LFE effects soundtracks. I would think then that your sub is properly calibrated to function properly. There are all kinds of subs out there in the market. Some of them may handle LFE efffects better than the Polk that you own. Your receivers subwoofer output is set at some particular number. That number at this time is the number you stick with because it also contributes to the prevention of your sub bottoming out and cracking and snapping too. I am now going to recommend to you one particular thing; leave the subwoofer output setting on your receiver right where it is for all discs that you play. This means that you may on occassion have to listen to TWISTER just the way it now sounds on your system or any other disc that might be weak in low bass because they were recorded that way from the studio. I believe those are few and far between. At this point Lex, your system is calibrated well enough to use on any disc safely. Kelsci

I second that.

[Tarheel_]

guys, i'm ashamed of you all..especially people who have been around here some time now. Remember the trick where you lay cash on the ground...then attach it to a string..when someone walks by and decides to pick it up...it is snatched....repeat, repeat..

that's exactly what Lex is doing to all of you....pulling your strings. YOu can never fully answer his questions. First it was the SPL meter, then EX or ES, then Jaws DTS, Scarface SE...and now its Twister and the sub setting....please stop feeding him and lets move on.

[wasch_24]

guys, i'm ashamed of you all..especially people who have been around here some time now. Remember the trick where you lay cash on the ground...then attach it to a string..when someone walks by and decides to pick it up...it is snatched....repeat, repeat..

that's exactly what Lex is doing to all of you....pulling your strings. YOu can never fully answer his questions. First it was the SPL meter, then EX or ES, then Jaws DTS, Scarface SE...and now its Twister and the sub setting....please stop feeding him and lets move on.

Amen!

[kelsci]

guys, i'm ashamed of you all..especially people who have been around here some time now. Remember the trick where you lay cash on the ground...then attach it to a string..when someone walks by and decides to pick it up...it is snatched....repeat, repeat..

that's exactly what Lex is doing to all of you....pulling your strings. YOu can never fully answer his questions. First it was the SPL meter, then EX or ES, then Jaws DTS, Scarface SE...and now its Twister and the sub setting....please stop feeding him and lets move on.

Tarheel; I was ordered by DARTH SIDIUS to follow the stick. I guess I'm a "stickler".

[Jim Clark]

guys, i'm ashamed of you all..especially people who have been around here some time now. Remember the trick where you lay cash on the ground...then attach it to a string..when someone walks by and decides to pick it up...it is snatched....repeat, repeat..

that's exactly what Lex is doing to all of you....pulling your strings. YOu can never fully answer his questions. First it was the SPL meter, then EX or ES, then Jaws DTS, Scarface SE...and now its Twister and the sub setting....please stop feeding him and lets move on.

Some people are very, very slow learners. I've got to tell you though, I get huge entertainment value out of watching this debacle continue to unfold.

jc

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

guys, i'm ashamed of you all..especially people who have been around here some time now. Remember the trick where you lay cash on the ground...then attach it to a string..when someone walks by and decides to pick it up...it is snatched....repeat, repeat..

that's exactly what Lex is doing to all of you....pulling your strings. YOu can never fully answer his questions. First it was the SPL meter, then EX or ES, then Jaws DTS, Scarface SE...and now its Twister and the sub setting....please stop feeding him and lets move on.

Tarheel,

Deep down on the inside I know you are right, but I am trying so hard to be nice and it is friggin killin me. I am trying so dang hard to project the kinder, gentler me that I am about to kill myself in the process. I must tell ya, I threw in the towel after my last simple and easy to understand answer was not understood. I could not have made it more easy, and I do not know how to explain it any more easily.

My manager is throwing in the towel now......

[Jim Clark]

Tarheel,

Deep down on the inside I know you are right, but I am trying so hard to be nice and it is friggin killin me. I am trying so dang hard to project the kinder, gentler me that I am about to kill myself in the process. I must tell ya, I threw in the towel after my last simple and easy to understand answer was not understood. I could not have made it more easy, and I do not know how to explain it any more easily.

My manager is throwing in the towel now......

I don't know if you are in the minority or not. I have a nagging suspicion that there are several very kind hearted people involved here. I certainly am not about to tell them what to do, it's their time to spend as they chose. I wonder though if those people are really doing anyone a favor by their kindness and patience. See, if we are to believe that the efforts are not in vain, then you have to believe that somebody is actually this helpless and clueless (which is a very nice way of putting it). Is that really being kind??? I dunno, just thinking out loud here.

Ahh, but the show is the thing and this show will go on!

Regards,
jc

[JSE]

I don't know if you are in the minority or not. I have a nagging suspicion that there are several very kind hearted people involved here. I certainly am not about to tell them what to do, it's their time to spend as they chose. I wonder though if those people are really doing anyone a favor by their kindness and patience. See, if we are to believe that the efforts are not in vain, then you have to believe that somebody is actually this helpless and clueless (which is a very nice way of putting it). Is that really being kind??? I dunno, just thinking out loud here.

Ahh, but the show is the thing and this show will go on!

Regards,
jc


Helpless and clueless are one thing. Flat out lying about his 3 (that we know of) screen names is another. Everyone and I mean everyone knows TLADINY and Lexmark are one in the same. Myself and many others understand John Beresford is his third indentity. Lexmark/TLADINY/John B. is the only one that does not know who he is.

Liars are Liars. Simple as that and they don't deserve help until they can come clean. I will never help this person until then. I will however, continue to push his buttons. That's what he get's for being a LIAR! He can continue to ask the same questions over and over and then hurl what ever insults, denials and excuses he wants at me and others but at the end of the day. HE IS A LIAR. Nothing more.

P.S. Kelsci, You are far more patient that most of us. I commend you for your efforts.

JSE

[markw]

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that someone is putting a lot of thought and effort into putting on a clueless act simply to garner attention. There's a similar thread on the digital forum by the same person who, yet again, refuses to see the forest for the trees even though several have been cut down and hit 'em on the head.

...what's that mythical creature that lives under a bridge?

PS... I only noticed JSE's post after I posted mine. Great minds think alike?

[Lexmark3200]

Lex; You have said that the current setting on your sub avoids cracking and snapping on certain powerful LFE effects soundtracks. I would think then that your sub is properly calibrated to function properly. There are all kinds of subs out there in the market. Some of them may handle LFE efffects better than the Polk that you own. Your receivers subwoofer output is set at some particular number. That number at this time is the number you stick with because it also contributes to the prevention of your sub bottoming out and cracking and snapping too. I am now going to recommend to you one particular thing; leave the subwoofer output setting on your receiver right where it is for all discs that you play. This means that you may on occassion have to listen to TWISTER just the way it now sounds on your system or any other disc that might be weak in low bass because they were recorded that way from the studio. I believe those are few and far between. At this point Lex, your system is calibrated well enough to use on any disc safely. Kelsci

Thank you very much, Kel....thats what I wanted to confirm, if my sub was at a level which was comfortable for all discs playing through it....thats why I have been leaving it at "+6"....

[cam]

Thank you very much, Kel....thats what I wanted to confirm, if my sub was at a level which was comfortable for all discs playing through it....thats why I have been leaving it at "+6"....
If your sub is +6, relative humidity is 70%, your down to your last 6 pack, and your neighbours dog has an ear infection, what do I set my surrounds to. Now I'm really confused.