Upconversion Confusion.

[Worf101]

Okay here's my situation. All of the following "upconvert" to 1080i or 1080p or something along those lines.

Oppo BluRay (delivered today)
Onkyo 905
Samsung 52-in LCD

Now I've some questions.

1. Do they all try and U.C. whatever signal comes in or out?

2.. Is it best to let the Oppo do it alone? Let the reciever do it or let the LCD have the final word?

3. I assume I can turn off upconverting on the Receiver AND the LCD?

4. Will multiple U.C.s make the picture look better, worse or like ass?

5. Help....

Da Worfster

[kelsci]

You are asking a very good question, Worfster. I do not know the answer. I think I would do some legwork on the net by finding reviews on each of the items you now own and see if any professional reviews advocate any particular item's built in system for upconverting. Or perhaps you can try this yourself by shutting down say the receiver and the oppo's upconverting features and turning on the tv sets upconverting feature and playing a particular disc. I would certainly run if possible a video essentials disc or perhaps a THX optimode disc and see what you get as a start. Shut down the tvs upconverting and then put on the receivers upconverting doing the same test. Do the same with the Oppo. Also take into mind, which is the most convenient to leave into play. I do not think it would be wise to leave all three on. You are going to have to do a trial and error experiment as well as read reports to see what is best to do. Good luck, Worfster.

[Worf101]

You are asking a very good question, Worfster. I do not know the answer. I think I would do some legwork on the net by finding reviews on each of the items you now own and see if any professional reviews advocate any particular item's built in system for upconverting. Or perhaps you can try this yourself by shutting down say the receiver and the oppo's upconverting features and turning on the tv sets upconverting feature and playing a particular disc. I would certainly run if possible a video essentials disc or perhaps a THX optimode disc and see what you get as a start. Shut down the tvs upconverting and then put on the receivers upconverting doing the same test. Do the same with the Oppo. Also take into mind, which is the most convenient to leave into play. I do not think it would be wise to leave all three on. You are going to have to do a trial and error experiment as well as read reports to see what is best to do. Good luck, Worfster.
I was hoping to find out the quick and easy way as opposed to the down and dirty way... Sigh. Well if'n I go through all this I'll be sure and post my results. The Oppo ships with a set up disk so I should be able to use it as a test medium for everything involved. Thanks for the love.

Da Worfster

[rob_a]

I will just add, I don't think you can mult. U.C. a picture signal:nonod:

That 905 is a couple of years old, I would say the oppo will be a better pic.

But let the LCD be the final say

[02audionoob]

1. Do they all try and U.C. whatever signal comes in or out?


There's at least one exception...I think you'll find the Oppo won't upconvert an analog signal from a copy-protected DVD.

My experience with a Sony Blu-ray has been that it looks best when it displays DVD as it is...no upconverting and no change to aspect. But of course, my TV might perform differently than yours and my receiver does not upconvert.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Okay here's my situation. All of the following "upconvert" to 1080i or 1080p or something along those lines.

Oppo BluRay (delivered today)
Onkyo 905
Samsung 52-in LCD

Congratulations, you are getting a truly excellent product.


Now I've some questions.

Uh oh!


1. Do they all try and U.C. whatever signal comes in or out?

No, once the signal is upconverted, the receiver will pass the video, and the panel will just scale to its native resolution. Upconversion can take place at either the player or the panel. It can also occur at the receiver, but tests have shown it to not be very clean on most receivers. Once you go up it price, they get better and better because they can incorporate the high end upconverters and associated processing.


2.. Is it best to let the Oppo do it alone? Let the reciever do it or let the LCD have the final word?

In this case let the Oppo do it. It has video processing that is far better than that on any Samsung television. Turn off any video processing in the receiver so it will just pass the signal through to the panel


3. I assume I can turn off upconverting on the Receiver AND the LCD?

You should be able to turn off the receivers processing, but there is no need to turn it off on the panel. The panel will accept the 1080p signal and display it. Once the signal is 1080p, the panel upconverter will ignore it, as it is the panel's native resolution. If you send the panel a 720p or 480p signal, it will upconvert that to 1080p. It has to or it won't be able to display it.


4. Will multiple U.C.s make the picture look better, worse or like ass?

No worry about this, you cannot upconvert past the panels native display resolution. If the player does it, it will just display the content. There are only two televisions I know of that will upconvert a 1080p signal to 2160p. I am auditioning one of them made by Sony, and Toshiba has one as well. Both are being marketed to post production studios, not consumers. Both will give nosebleeds when their costs are revealed, and they require the horsepower of the cell processor to accomplish their tasks. Not a cheap processor by any means.


5. Help....

Da Worfster

Where is your sign? Even the coyote had a sign man!(see bugs bunny for the reference)

[Worf101]

Congratulations, you are getting a truly excellent product.



Uh oh!



No, once the signal is upconverted, the receiver will pass the video, and the panel will just scale to its native resolution. Upconversion can take place at either the player or the panel. It can also occur at the receiver, but tests have shown it to not be very clean on most receivers. Once you go up it price, they get better and better because they can incorporate the high end upconverters and associated processing.



In this case let the Oppo do it. It has video processing that is far better than that on any Samsung television. Turn off any video processing in the receiver so it will just pass the signal through to the panel



You should be able to turn off the receivers processing, but there is no need to turn it off on the panel. The panel will accept the 1080p signal and display it. Once the signal is 1080p, the panel upconverter will ignore it, as it is the panel's native resolution. If you send the panel a 720p or 480p signal, it will upconvert that to 1080p. It has to or it won't be able to display it.



No worry about this, you cannot upconvert past the panels native display resolution. If the player does it, it will just display the content. There are only two televisions I know of that will upconvert a 1080p signal to 2160p. I am auditioning one of them made by Sony, and Toshiba has one as well. Both are being marketed to post production studios, not consumers. Both will give nosebleeds when their costs are revealed, and they require the horsepower of the cell processor to accomplish their tasks. Not a cheap processor by any means.



Where is your sign? Even the coyote had a sign man!(see bugs bunny for the reference)
Just watched my first Blu-Ray, Gave puddin a treat and rented "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button". Blu-Ray is "impressive" visually but not world beating, But the sound.... mah god!!!!! That was worth the money. Still tweakin' the bad boy trying to get the player, receiver and LCD to "play nice" but I'm encouraged. Can't wait to get some hi-def recordings of music.

As for your comments... Thanks man, you helped put my mind at rest and schooled me as I knew you and the other would. You guys are aces.

Da "thankful for buds like youse" Worfster

[Mr Peabody]

If I may add, if you have a lower resolution source plugged into the Onkyo, VCR/DVD, you should have the receiver's upcomversion switched on in order to pass those signals via HDMI to the TV. And, as on 02AN's unit, typically BR players will not upconvert DVD and pass it via anything except HDMI

[pixelthis]

There's at least one exception...I think you'll find the Oppo won't upconvert an analog signal from a copy-protected DVD.

My experience with a Sony Blu-ray has been that it looks best when it displays DVD as it is...no upconverting and no change to aspect. But of course, my TV might perform differently than yours and my receiver does not upconvert.

Copy protection has nothing to do with "upconversion".
YOU CANT get more resolution than you start out with anyway, but the whole point of upconversion anyway was to make DVD's look good, and as a marketing gimminck.
Great thing about BLU is that Blu players tend to actually improve a standard DVD
somehow, dont ask me how, since true "upconversion" usually requires an expensive
scaler.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Pix,
You are right, copy protection doesn't have anything to do with upconversion. You completely missed his point. DVD players will not upconvert a copy protected DVD through its component output not because they have anything to do with each other, but because the studios do not want to give video pirates a way to create perfect copies of their movies. This is especially so when you use these outputs because they are not copy protected with HDCP
That is what he is trying to say.

Upconversion is not to increase the resolution of a source, just like upsampling or oversampling does not increase the resolution of an audio source. It is designed to make a 480i signal more smooth and film like. Nothing more, and nothing less. By inserting more pixels into the original source, you smoothen out the picture quality because now the display has more information and points to sample from.

[Golfrocker]

Sir Terrence - I just signed up to this forum because of problems I'm having getting a signal to my Toshiba 65H84 from my new Onkyo THX receiver that came in yesterday. I'm hoping that you'll be able to offer some advice as to what I can do to rectify the problem.

Here's what I've done thus far.

1. Set up the A/V receiver (HT-R960) without any problems
2. Connected the Direct TV HR21 via HDMI to the receiver
3. Connected the Toshiba DVD player (XD-E500) to the receiver
4. Tested both Sat and DVD - volume works on both through 7.1
5. No signal at 65H84
6. Moved HDMI out from 65H84 to the Toshiba 32 (720p) and video works flawlessly

Is the problem with the type of HDMI cable that is now required by the A/V receiver?

I can't understand why it's working with the newer 32" HD set and not the new one.

One other point - I've retested HDMI on the 65H84 directly from both Direct TV and DVD and it works great - it just won't work when the signal is from the AV receiver.

I have the AV receiver set to AUTO and the HDMI out - I've tried all of the settings for its output, including 1080i to no avail.

Any light that you could shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

Pete (AKA- golfrocker)

[Mr Peabody]

Did you mean SR906? I didn't find a 960 except the HTR960 which is stereo.

How old is the Toshiba? It sounds like you may have HDCP compliance problems. If the DVD player is older it probably wouldn't have the copy guard built in and I'm not sure about satelite. You should call or email Toshiba with your TV model number and ask if it's HDCP compliant. It may say in the manual but many times it's hard to find if mentioned at all. I doubt if the HDMI cable would make a difference in the problem you are having, definitely not, if it's a HDCP issue. I still hear occasionally about two compliant components not having a compatible hand shake but I think it's more rare now than it was in the past.

If it turns out your TV is not compliant the cheapest fix would be to use component video cables from the receiver to the TV. Component will do HD up to 1080i and shouldn't make a difference on your picture unless moving into Blu-ray at some point. Even then you may have to deal with any slight loss in video quality unless wanting to replace the TV.

Not Sir T but maybe this will get you started in the right direction.

[BadAssJazz]

Either let the Oppo (first choice) do the UC, or the Onkyo (second choice). The 905 is not your run of the mill receiver with subpar video processing. It was one of the the best when it was released and my guess is that it's still one of the best now.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir Terrence - I just signed up to this forum because of problems I'm having getting a signal to my Toshiba 65H84 from my new Onkyo THX receiver that came in yesterday. I'm hoping that you'll be able to offer some advice as to what I can do to rectify the problem.

Here's what I've done thus far.

1. Set up the A/V receiver (HT-R960) without any problems
2. Connected the Direct TV HR21 via HDMI to the receiver
3. Connected the Toshiba DVD player (XD-E500) to the receiver
4. Tested both Sat and DVD - volume works on both through 7.1
5. No signal at 65H84
6. Moved HDMI out from 65H84 to the Toshiba 32 (720p) and video works flawlessly

Is the problem with the type of HDMI cable that is now required by the A/V receiver?

I can't understand why it's working with the newer 32" HD set and not the new one.

One other point - I've retested HDMI on the 65H84 directly from both Direct TV and DVD and it works great - it just won't work when the signal is from the AV receiver.

I have the AV receiver set to AUTO and the HDMI out - I've tried all of the settings for its output, including 1080i to no avail.

Any light that you could shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

Pete (AKA- golfrocker)

Is your receiver set to 1080i? The Toshiba will not accept a 1080p signal under any conditions, you have to get an expensive upgrade for it to do that.

All components in your chain should be set for 1080i. If any signal in the chain is set for 1080p (including the upconverting DVD player or the receiver) it will not accept the signal.

You have a damn good television by the way.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Did you mean SR906? I didn't find a 960 except the HTR960 which is stereo.

How old is the Toshiba? It sounds like you may have HDCP compliance problems. If the DVD player is older it probably wouldn't have the copy guard built in and I'm not sure about satelite. You should call or email Toshiba with your TV model number and ask if it's HDCP compliant. It may say in the manual but many times it's hard to find if mentioned at all. I doubt if the HDMI cable would make a difference in the problem you are having, definitely not, if it's a HDCP issue. I still hear occasionally about two compliant components not having a compatible hand shake but I think it's more rare now than it was in the past.

If it turns out your TV is not compliant the cheapest fix would be to use component video cables from the receiver to the TV. Component will do HD up to 1080i and shouldn't make a difference on your picture unless moving into Blu-ray at some point. Even then you may have to deal with any slight loss in video quality unless wanting to replace the TV.

Not Sir T but maybe this will get you started in the right direction.

His television definitely is HDCP compliant, and can definitely handle Bluray signals.

[AVMASTER]

Sir Terrence - I just signed up to this forum because of problems I'm having getting a signal to my Toshiba 65H84 from my new Onkyo THX receiver that came in yesterday. I'm hoping that you'll be able to offer some advice as to what I can do to rectify the problem.

Here's what I've done thus far.

1. Set up the A/V receiver (HT-R960) without any problems
2. Connected the Direct TV HR21 via HDMI to the receiver
3. Connected the Toshiba DVD player (XD-E500) to the receiver
4. Tested both Sat and DVD - volume works on both through 7.1
5. No signal at 65H84
6. Moved HDMI out from 65H84 to the Toshiba 32 (720p) and video works flawlessly

Is the problem with the type of HDMI cable that is now required by the A/V receiver?

I can't understand why it's working with the newer 32" HD set and not the new one.

One other point - I've retested HDMI on the 65H84 directly from both Direct TV and DVD and it works great - it just won't work when the signal is from the AV receiver.

I have the AV receiver set to AUTO and the HDMI out - I've tried all of the settings for its output, including 1080i to no avail.

Any light that you could shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

Pete (AKA- golfrocker)

the receiver is from the HTiB hts9100thx, HDMI cables not the problem and if you get signal when sources go straight to display then issue could be receiver; Did you assign the inputs?

[musicman1999]

The 65h84 will do 1080i only, so run component video and hdmi for audio. I have a 51hx84 and the hdmi is very finicky about the components it will work with, ps3 won't work, same as cable box but my Pioneer 51fd will work just fine. Receiver is the issue but that tv will put up a great 1080i picture from bluray. One piece of advice, have it ISF calibrated, it will really bring out every thing that set can do.

bill

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The 65h84 will do 1080i only, so run component video and hdmi for audio. I have a 51hx84 and the hdmi is very finicky about the components it will work with, ps3 won't work, same as cable box but my Pioneer 51fd will work just fine. Receiver is the issue but that tv will put up a great 1080i picture from bluray. One piece of advice, have it ISF calibrated, it will really bring out every thing that set can do.

bill

I would not advise using one input for audio and another for video, things get out of sync that way. His display device will work fine with the PS3, mine did before I got the upgrade with absolutely no problems whatsoever. The best thing he can do is shut off all video processing through the receiver (pass through), and set the player for 1080i.

Good advice on the calibration though, this television is absolutely amazing when properly calibrated.

[pixelthis]

Is your receiver set to 1080i? The Toshiba will not accept a 1080p signal under any conditions, you have to get an expensive upgrade for it to do that.

All components in your chain should be set for 1080i. If any signal in the chain is set for 1080p (including the upconverting DVD player or the receiver) it will not accept the signal.

You have a damn good television by the way.

wrong.
(Of course)
THX reccomends that you set your receiver to "through" mostly, and I have found that to be a good idea, mostly.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

wrong.
(Of course)
THX reccomends that you set your receiver to "through" mostly, and I have found that to be a good idea, mostly.:1:

THX recommendations only apply to THX approved components. Secondly I do not know how you missed this unless you didn't read the post;

The best thing he can do is shut off all video processing through the receiver (pass through), and set the player for 1080i.

Reading skills are necessary when participating in a forum.