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Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 05:21 AM
So, I'm starting to deal with a fellow in eBay for a pair of B&W 802 Nautilus. I know, they're not the "Ds". He is asking 1000 Euros (+/- $1560 CDN) including shipping, not bad for $8K speakers. They come with a 30 day money back deal and the 3 year factory warranty.

These are probably the best speakers I'll ever be able to afford so I'm going to complete the deal if it's all good. If I don't like them (highly unlikely) I could unload and even make a profit.

What's ya guys think? The one kicker is that he wants to finish the deal via an ebay transaction money order, I have never done this. Is this a safe transaction method. Does this sound legitimate? Quick answers are appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys. LDB

02audionoob
08-30-2009, 05:57 AM
Money orders are not an eBay-condoned method of payment. There's no way to protect your money like with PayPal and credit cards. I might pay for an eBay item with a money order in person, but not likely ever through the mail. Just not safe.

Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 06:00 AM
Money orders are not an eBay-condoned method of payment. There's no way to protect your money like with PayPal and credit cards. I might pay for an eBay item with a money order in person, but not likely ever through the mail. Just not safe.

Thanks 02, that's the part that has me a bit nervous.

02audionoob
08-30-2009, 06:02 AM
It would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 06:05 AM
It would be a complete deal-breaker for me.

He does mention a "ebay transaction money order". So I'll wait for the eBay confirmation to see if it's a sanctioned Ebay method. In the mean time I think I'll send a quick email to eBay to confirm this seller and payment method.

Worf101
08-30-2009, 06:30 AM
Smells fishy to me. You can't get Nautilus 802's here for that kind of money. Never, EVER seen em that cheap on the Bay or Audiogon and I check EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!! Not so much for the 802's but definately for the 803's. Check the guys feedback, see if he's sold anything of this size and cost before. Ask technical questions like did he bi-amp or bi-wire? What did he power em with? What brand of pre- and power amp? If he balks at these, then you know it's a scam. No paypal? I'd avoid it, too good to be true.

Da Worfster

Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 06:36 AM
Smells fishy to me. You can't get Nautilus 802's here for that kind of money. Never, EVER seen em that cheap on the Bay or Audiogon and I check EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!! Not so much for the 802's but definately for the 803's. Check the guys feedback, see if he's sold anything of this size and cost before. Ask technical questions like did he bi-amp or bi-wire? What did he power em with? What brand of pre- and power amp? If he balks at these, then you know it's a scam. No paypal? I'd avoid it, too good to be true.

Da Worfster


Shur does sound too good to be true. He has 99% feedback score but his store looks like he only sells golf clubs and gear. Could be that he doesn't know what he's got? I won't buy unless I feel comfortable with the deal. Maybe I'll force the Paypal issue and if he doesn't like it then well...........Thanks

02audionoob
08-30-2009, 06:58 AM
He does mention a "ebay transaction money order". So I'll wait for the eBay confirmation to see if it's a sanctioned Ebay method. In the mean time I think I'll send a quick email to eBay to confirm this seller and payment method.

It's all right here...

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

Money orders are noted as not allowed for most transactions.

Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 07:02 AM
It's all right here...

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

Money orders are noted as not allowed for most transactions.

Thanks for this, if this is legit and moves forward I'm going to demand a secure method of payment.

Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 07:13 AM
Just received this from eBay. Looks like Paypal is not secured in Italy? Names have been removed.



Dear xxxxxx,


After verifying the trustworthiness of the seller and the availability of the merchandise for immediate shipping, we have approved your buy it now transaction and offered you, as the buyer, full purchase protection for the amount you agreed on with the seller.
eBay Transaction
# KSB059209475 Started!
Current status: Payment pending

Complete your eBay transaction in 5 easy steps:

1.
Buyer and seller agree on the transaction terms and a selling price.
2.
Seller contacts eBay with the transaction details, eBay accepts the transaction and offers purchase protection to the buyer (if the transaction is declined, no further action is required from either the buyer or the seller).
3.
The buyer sends payment and the seller receives it. After the payment was received, the seller must notify eBay. Buyer will send the payment details directly to the seller email address. The seller has three business days to send the buyer and eBay the tracking number of the shipment. If no tracking number is provided, a full refund is immediately sent to the buyer.
4.
Buyer receives the merchandise and has fourteen days to inspect it. If it is complete and as described, the buyer should accept the merchandise. If he refuses the merchandise, the buyer must ship the merchandise back to the seller within three business days.
5.
After the inspection period is over (14 days) , the buyer must contact eBay with the result of the inspection. If the buyer refuses the merchandise, the refund will be sent to the buyer after the tracking number for the returned shipment is verified.

The following item is protected in this eBay transaction:
Item(s) Title


B&W 802

Item price:

Euro 1000.00 Amount insured
FedEx Corporation, your single source for time-sensitive and time-deferred package, document, and freight transportation services internationally.FedEx Rates FAQs


Shipping:



Fedex Tracking Number:


Payment must be sent by Western Union wire transfer to seller's verified address:
Payment must be sent by Western Union Money Transfer to:

Seller's verified payment address:

Full Name : xxxxx
Address : xxxxxx

City : Bergamo

State : BG

Zip Code : 24100

Country : Italy



Buyer's shipping address:

Full Name : xxxxx

Address : xxxxx

City : Kelowna

State : BC

Zip Code : V4V 1E5

Country : Canada


Next step to be taken:
The buyer must send the payment to the seller

We know that we encourage every eBay member to use services such as PayPal, Escrow which are safer than WesternUnion Money Transfer. But is our responsibility to make every option safe and tell that this seller is verified by our services and you can have all the trust in his requests.Member is ID Verified
Payment instructions:

To submit the payment with WesternUnion Money Transfer, you have 1 option:

Pay for the transfer with cash at a local WesternUnion agent. Click here to locate the agents in your area http://www.westernunion.com Go to one of them and send the payment to the verified name of the seller.
WesternUnion Money Transfer is the only service that has ultimate authentication of the identity of the receiver of funds. Several IDs and utility bills are required before the funds are paid. Therefore, no one else but your seller can pick up the money. Your payments cannot be lost in the mail, like money orders or checks.
Sellers from Italy are not yet eligible for the PayPal Buyer Protection, which means you are not protected against fraud if you pay this seller by PayPal.


Once the payment was sent, email the seller the following information:

1. 10 digit MTCN#
2. Exact sender's name on file with WesternUnion:
3. Your street address on file with WesternUnion:
4. City and country where you sent the money from:
5. Amount sent:

Then wait for the confirmation the payment was received. Within 3 business days, you will receive the tracking number for your merchandise.

Purchase protection and refund:

Currently, this seller has a 5,000.00 deposit in an eBay managed purchase protection account. Transactions with this eBay seller are covered for 30 days by purchase protection against fraud and description errors. For your safety, the seller is unable to withdraw any money from it, within this period.Should you need a refund for this transaction, the insured amount will be taken from the seller's purchase protection account and sent to you. The refund is sent to your bank account, or by check or money order. The way you are refunded is at your choice. You have 30 days from the above verification date to request a refund. Refund requests are processed within 3 days.This transaction is supervised by eBay's Safe Harbor team.

Conditions to be met before you may ask for a refund :

Here are the situations suitable for a refund request:
1. If the item doesn't arrive and/or the seller stops communications after the payment was received;
2. If the merchandise you receive has different specifications than the ones you agreed on;
3. If your merchandise arrives in a much longer period than the one you agreed on (more than 15 days from the payment clearance day);
For cases 2. and 3. you have to send back the merchandise to the seller prior to ask for your refund. If you did not pay the seller by payment method required by us, your refund request will be declined.

Important Usage Guidelines :

1. The contact information should only be used for resolving matters related to eBay. Any other use is strictly prohibited.
2. This transaction is protected by eBay services such as insurance, feedback and dispute resolution.
3. You may buy and sell with confidence in all transactions with this eBay member.
4. Should you need to dispute this transaction, keep the transaction number at hand when contacting eBay. Any complaints must be filed within 30 days from the verification date.

This e-mail message was sent to you from eBay SafeHarbor team, with the full support of the SquareTrade center.
The seller was informed about this transaction being started and is awaiting your payment. It is recommended to send the payment as soon as possible, because your purchase protection is valid for 30 days only.
If you encounter any problems with this transaction, please contact us.
When contacting our support team, use the reply feature so that all previous correspondences are included in your email. Otherwise, we will not be able to process your request.
To ask for a refund, simply reply to this notification and enter in the subject line:

Refund request for eBay Transaction # KSB059209475
Helpful links

Leave feedback - Tell us how the sale went
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Learn more: Looking for a hard-to-find item? Use favorite searches to find out when matching items appear on eBay.

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02audionoob
08-30-2009, 07:28 AM
There's just no way I'd ever wire money to someone in Italy...not a chance, ever.

Rudy Gireyev
08-30-2009, 02:28 PM
Hey LDB.

Not sure if you've pulled the trigger. Some things to consider:
1. As you said try to insist on PayPal, since PayPal can be Credit Card backed or fully funded this may be the reason he wants money order. If you fund your PayPal with means other than a Credit Card then he will not have to pay the 2% - 3% Credit Card processing fee.

2. Ask for as many pictures as possible. Especially with the grills off.

3. Maybe, request his phone number so you can discuss all possibilities in person, which can be easier than doing it over email.

Just some random thoughts.
Rudy

02audionoob
08-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Just received this from eBay.


Queen Gertrude would likely say, "eBay doth protest too much, methinks"

Luvin Da Blues
08-30-2009, 04:10 PM
I'm not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this guy so I'm not pulling the trigger unless he is willing to accept an Ebay approved payment method. I doubt this is going to happen so the deal is probably dead. Thanks for all your help and quick replies guys.

Worf101
08-30-2009, 08:54 PM
I'm not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this guy so I'm not pulling the trigger unless he is willing to accept an Ebay approved payment method. I doubt this is going to happen so the deal is probably dead. Thanks for all your help and quick replies guys.
I know how it feels when you think you're missing out on something you've wanted most of your adult life. But trust me you'll feel a whole lot worse if you get scammed. A former boss of mine sent 3 large to England for bicycle supposedly worth 12 grand. He then calls me up to his office to ask if he got took, of course he did and he asked on money order too late. No money order scheme is safe, period. Have a beer, keep looking. Hell as heavy as 802's are the shipping from Italy would be moren the price he's asking.

Da Worfster

Feanor
08-31-2009, 05:08 AM
I'm not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this guy so I'm not pulling the trigger unless he is willing to accept an Ebay approved payment method. I doubt this is going to happen so the deal is probably dead. Thanks for all your help and quick replies guys.

Western Union transfer probably offers the least recourse of any payment method in case something goes wrong.

If you kid looses his/her money in traveling in some remote foreign land, send him/her some cash via Western Union -- but first make damned sure its' actually your kid who's asking for it.

Luvin Da Blues
08-31-2009, 05:22 AM
I know how it feels when you think you're missing out on something you've wanted most of your adult life. But trust me you'll feel a whole lot worse if you get scammed. A former boss of mine sent 3 large to England for bicycle supposedly worth 12 grand. He then calls me up to his office to ask if he got took, of course he did and he asked on money order too late. No money order scheme is safe, period. Have a beer, keep looking. Hell as heavy as 802's are the shipping from Italy would be moren the price he's asking.

Da Worfster


Thanks Sarg, it wasn't like I was actively looking for speakers at this time so no heartbreak here. Mind you, a set of N802s in my space would be just fine by me.

A couple of things made me nervous right off the bat;

-The seller is is Italy but the speakers are apparently in Minnesota.
-The last time I checked the auction the high bid was around $2400. This price is more realistic. Why didn't he just sell to the highest bidder?
- The auction disappeared on Ebay soon after I made email contact with the seller. Strange.
-He insists on Western Union money x-fer, quoting problems with his Paypal account. :frown2: Whatever
-Haven't heard from him since I insisted on a Ebay approved payment method. I even offered to go to a Ebay sanction escrow service.

Just too many ??? for moi.

Luvin Da Blues
08-31-2009, 05:25 AM
Western Union transfer probably offers the least recourse of any payment method in case something goes wrong.

If you kid looses his/her money in traveling in some remote foreign land, send him/her some cash via Western Union -- but first make damned sure its' actually your kid who's asking for it.

Yup, a WU transfer is not something that is going to happen by me for this deal. :hand:

Feanor
08-31-2009, 06:40 AM
Thanks Sarg, it wasn't like I was actively looking for speakers at this time so no heartbreak here. Mind you, a set of N802s in my space would be just fine by me.

A couple of things made me nervous right off the bat;

-The seller is is Italy but the speakers are apparently in Minnesota.
-The last time I checked the auction the high bid was around $2400. This price is more realistic. Why didn't he just sell to the highest bidder?
- The auction disappeared on Ebay soon after I made email contact with the seller. Strange.
-He insists on Western Union money x-fer, quoting problems with his Paypal account. :frown2: Whatever
-Haven't heard from him since I insisted on a Ebay approved payment method. I even offered to go to a Ebay sanction escrow service.

Just too many ??? for moi.

It's a SCAM, period.

Same old: if it looks too good to true ...

Sometimes IDs of legitimate eBayers are highjacked. Thus a good score doesn't can't be taken as proof of anything. If anything looks fishy, check the record and make sure there are very recent transactions, and even then ... Also check for ID changes.

Swish
09-03-2009, 04:02 PM
It's a SCAM, period.

Same old: if it looks too good to true ...

Sometimes IDs of legitimate eBayers are highjacked. Thus a good score doesn't can't be taken as proof of anything. If anything looks fishy, check the record and make sure there are very recent transactions, and even then ... Also check for ID changes.

I've heard this before and was getting ready to reply and mention it. It sure smells like a hijacked ID, especially with the speakers in the US and guy overseas. Total crap for sure. I have a feeling e-bay contacted the seller and found out the ID was hijacked, so they pulled the auction. I buy a lot, and sell a little, on e-bay and have never been burned by following their recommendations.

Good call dude.

JohnMichael
09-03-2009, 06:45 PM
We had a situation a while ago where someone was selling B&W 802's at a ridiculous price and someone got ripped off. Since the guy advertised on AR he thought AR should reimburse his money. Of course you do not know if he was ripped off or trying to rip off AR. Like it says buyer beware. I do remember the same two address situation where the money was sent one place and the speakers would be shipped from another. Of course you also have to worry about cheap copies made to look like B&W's.

Mr Peabody
09-03-2009, 07:22 PM
Was the email saying the guy had $5k in escrow and verified etc from the seller or Ebay? If from the seller this all makes sense as a scam but if from Ebay, why would they say all that?

Luvin Da Blues
09-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Was the email saying the guy had $5k in escrow and verified etc from the seller or Ebay? If from the seller this all makes sense as a scam but if from Ebay, why would they say all that?

That email just came out of the blue. I've deleted the email but the addy was something like Ebay@transactions.com. Looked pretty suspicious, that's why I posted it here.

Mr Peabody
09-03-2009, 07:46 PM
It's a shame, folks have to be on there guard all the time on the net and email. This identity theft is a real plague as well.

02audionoob
09-03-2009, 07:53 PM
My point when I said ebay doth protest too much was to say they've said so many times you can trust this seller it couldn't possible be legit.

And another point of warning to those who might not know...Italy is notoriously popular with the scammers. Using Western Union is a sure sign of a scam...and so is doing business from Italy.

bobsticks
09-04-2009, 05:48 AM
This is a scam. I guarantee it.

Rule #1: Western Union cannot and will not protect your money

Rule#2: Italy, Nigeria, the Philipines and all of Eastern Europe are known homes for some of the most pervasive and ruthless computer thieves...caveat emptor

Rule#3: If it sounds too good to be true it prolly is.

I always ask if I can view the product...even if I'm 10,000 miles away..."hey, I'll be in Milan for a convention, can i zip on over and test the speaks out?"...you'll never hear from him again.

Don't do it brotha, I beg of ya...

Worf101
09-04-2009, 05:52 AM
My point when I said ebay doth protest too much was to say they've said so many times you can trust this seller it couldn't possible be legit.

And another point of warning to those who might not know...Italy is notoriously popular with the scammers. Using Western Union is a sure sign of a scam...and so is doing business from Italy.
Italy, ANY African Country and even England, my boss got ripped off by someone in Britain, the scam can come from anywhere. The only common denominator is Western Union. Never, ever use Western Union for anything other than sending money to family members. Like a money order, if you're ripped off using W.U. you're just screwed. After all these years I have to think that W.U. is in on the deal. Every year thousands get ripped off using their service, every year they promise to help fight the rip offs and every year they continue. Doesn't matter to them if the transaction's fraudulent, they get paid either way.

Da Worfster

bobsticks
09-04-2009, 05:57 AM
Italy, ANY African Country and even England, my boss got ripped off by someone in Britain, the scam can come from anywhere. The only common denominator is Western Union. Never, ever use Western Union for anything other than sending money to family members. Like a money order, if you're ripped off using W.U. you're just screwed. After all these years I have to think that W.U. is in on the deal. Every year thousands get ripped off using their service, every year they promise to help fight the rip offs and every year they continue. Doesn't matter to them if the transaction's fraudulent, they get paid either way.

Da Worfster

Truest of talk...cosigns this post

Luvin Da Blues
09-04-2009, 05:59 AM
....Don't do it brotha, I beg of ya...


Tis so far off the radar now. Those rosy spectacles certainly can be blinding tho. Good thing I'm a pessimist at heart. :)

Worf101
09-04-2009, 06:03 AM
Truest of talk...cosigns this post
Great minds think alike. We were typing the exact same thing at the exact same time. I never got took for gear BUT there's a Russian girl with $200 of my money somewhere in AssKrackistan, but it was my own fault, cheap lesson learned at twice the price. My first and last overseas W.U. transaction.

Be good man.

Da Worfster

bobsticks
09-04-2009, 06:08 AM
ROtFLMGYAP-AO!!!!...."AssKrackistan"...fargin' hilarious...

i had some jackass harass me about one of them ol' Sammy pedestal projection Tv's... 'til I found out he used the same proxy serever outta China that I was using at the time...when I told him he was sitting in an apartment in Estonia his azz got real quiet, real quick...

...can't ever be too careful...the world is a cold place...

perfectlover
08-18-2013, 09:18 AM
hi there i m from Malaysia perak mt wong i'm very interested with your bnw natulius 802 please give me your best price and send me a email thx my contact number is my name is kelvin wong


Just trying to help. Old thread and you may be opening yourself up for troubles.

Feanor
08-18-2013, 09:44 AM
Ditto the cautions of others here. Personally I've never heard of eBay money orders. People try to scam on eBay very often: beware of too-good-to-be true prices and dubious payment methods such as money orders, personal checks (a.k.a. cheques), etc.

The old scam is ... Seller tells you his friend owes him money; friend will send you a cheque for, say, few times the amount of the purchase; you're to deduct the price and send the rest to him via Western Union. So you cash his buddy's cheque; the bank credits your account; you send him the balance (and maybe ship the item); a few days later the bank bounces the check and debits you account. You loose the balance and the item you sold; (maybe sometimes the item comes back as undeliverable).

Not many people fall for this nowadays. A variation I was involved with used Canada Post money orders instead of a cheque. Fortunately I'm a suspicious person: despite his insistence that I send the money right away, I insisted on going to the post office before sending the cash or shipping the item. He emailed and actually 'phoned me several times to urge me along. Of course, the postal money orders were counterfeit -- they looked great though.

Were are the 802's located? Can you pick them up? If not, was there any discussion of the cost of shipping -- presumably it's pretty high from anywhere out of town.