Anyone love/hate ADCOM here?

[manlystanley]

Hello,
I picked up a GTP-870HD this weekend off of a great deal on ubid. Now, I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. My current system is a mixture of of equipment that I've bought off of CL, ubid, and ebay. I'm to poor to go the purist route. So, I just read lots of audiophile comments and buy either: used, refurbished or deep discounted stuff (5 kids--three in collage--makes a guy poor.)

My current system is used 90% for music and 10% movies:

--> Four In-Wall Klipsch R-5650-S (2 back and 2 surround)
--> Denon DVD-3930CI (DVD/Audio CD)
--> B&W 684 fronts (which sounded just OK driven by my denon 687, but are incredible driven by my vintage Harman Kardon pm655).
--> Denon 687 (Which is hooked to my four inwall Klipschs).
--> A wonderful Harman Kardon PM655 vintage integrated amp (at least 20 years old) that is hooked to my front B&W 684's.

--> No name lousy subwoofer that has a fake plant on it, and is never turned on.
--> Sharp XR-32X (Cheap 720p projector that does the job for now).

-----------------

I was thinking that the Adcom would allow me to have the same pre-amp for all speakers. But, now I need a power amp. So, if I may, I'd like to ask for some help on a few questions:

-- What Power amp would go with my Adcom and B&W's?

-- Until I get a power amp, can I just use the Harman Kardon PM655 as my power amp for four of the speakers? (e.g. it can drive two sets of speakers. The PM655 has the ability to separate the pre and power amp portions. So, could I feed the Adcom directly into the power amp section of the PM655?)

Best Regards,

[02audionoob]

It seems like the logical power amp for your setup could be an Adcom multi-channel model like the GFA-7607 or GFA-7707. You're going to need individual amplification for seven channels to get the most out of the setup and the PM655 is going to give you only two, even though it can drive four speakers. I suppose you could also use the PM655 to drive two channels and get a 5-channnel amp like a GFA-7000 for the other speakers, but it seems like if you're getting the 5-channel amp you could use only that.

[Mr Peabody]

Agreed. NAD would also make a good match and be in the same price range as Adcom or possibly find used.

Also, check www.audiogon.com

[manlystanley]

Mr Peabody & 02audionoob,
Thanks for your help. I was thinking about the GFA-7607 as well, but I didn't know if they would work well with my B&W 684's. That's why I was toying with a Rotel. Thanks again for your help.

BTW, here's a couple of reviews that describe the GTP-880 (predecessor of the GTP-870HD) and the GFA-7607.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/704adcom/

http://www.hometheatermag.com/preampprocessors/304adcom/

Best Regards,
Stan

[02audionoob]

What are you thinking might be better about the Rotel? In general, if I were choosing head to head, I'd choose Adcom.

[Mr Peabody]

I had the gfa-5400 and at 125x2 it drove Dynaudio Audience 60's with no problem. They are a very good value in most instances. And a steal for what they sell for used. You can find their 555 or 5500, 200x2, for under $500.00. I still have an Adcom system but using a 5500 now with a gtp-450.

[Feanor]

I had the gfa-5400 and at 125x2 it drove Dynaudio Audience 60's with no problem. They are a very good value in most instances. And a steal for what they sell for used. You can find their 555 or 5500, 200x2, for under $500.00. I still have an Adcom system but using a 5500 now with a gtp-450.

I agree. Used Adcom are huge value. Of course it helps that there are plenty of Adcom on the used market.

I have owned a couple of Adcoms.

A GFA-555II stereo amp; this amp eats any NAD for breakfest, such as the C270 which I've also owned, (but possibly excepting the new Master series). I paid $300 for mine although a more typical used price would be $400-450 and worth every cent.
A GFP-750 active/passive preamp that go for $700-750 but beats any NAD pre in sound quality and flexibility except that it is line stage only.I have never auditioned Rotel equipment at any length so I can't make a direct comparision.

[frenchmon]

Mr Peabody & 02audionoob,
Thanks for your help. I was thinking about the GFA-7607 as well, but I didn't know if they would work well with my B&W 684's. That's why I was toying with a Rotel. Thanks again for your help.

BTW, here's a couple of reviews that describe the GTP-880 (predecessor of the GTP-870HD) and the GFA-7607.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/704adcom/

http://www.hometheatermag.com/preampprocessors/304adcom/

Best Regards,
Stan


I have a Adcom amp 5400 @ 2X125 and a Rotel amp RB1080 @ 2X200 and they both would do a wonderful job for what you want. I give a slight edge to the Rotel . I do use the Adcom in my hometheater driving the front speakers

[manlystanley]

What are you thinking might be better about the Rotel? In general, if I were choosing head to head, I'd choose Adcom.

I was thinking that since B&W makes Rotel, that that would be the best match for my B&W 684's? Anyways, I appreciate everyone's comments. I'm looking for a used ADCOM or maybe a good deal on a new one.

Best Regards,
Stan

[02audionoob]

Do you have a budget in mind?

[manlystanley]

Do you have a budget in mind?

That's a good question. I think the answer boils down to value. There is a lot of ADCOM power amps for sale on Ebay, but they are older ones and most are two channel. While new ones are not significantly more. For example, for a 7-Channel 125W GFA-7607 I can get one for::

--> Refurbusihed (with shipping) for $890 and a 2 year warranty.
--> New (With shipping) for $1,099.08 and a five year warranty.

On ebay, they seem to have mainly 2 (with some 3 channel used Adcoms). Then on Audiogon, they have one 5 channel, but it goes for $495 plus shipping. So, it makes more sense to buy the refurbished 7-channel (so I could power my entire home theater).

I would never have gone the separate route, but I just lucked on to a GTP-870HD from UBID (with 5 year warranty--confirmed by ADCOM) for $299. My jaw dropped when I saw it. This is the second amazing deal that I've gotten off of ubid. I've gotten some good deals of of CL, but UBID is really been great for me.


Best Regards,
Stan

[02audionoob]

Audiogon prices on the Adcom gear has varied quite a bit in the time I've watched it. I've seen prices that vary by 50% on the same item. If I were in your place and could swing the new or refurb price, that does sound like a better plan than the used prices you're seeing for some items.

If I were on a very tight budget I'd go for the GFA-6000, which is a 5-channel amp. That's why I asked about budget. If I had a thousand bucks to spend and could get the amplification handled for $250, I'd spend the remainder elsewhere.

[manlystanley]

Audiogon prices on the Adcom gear has varied quite a bit in the time I've watched it. I've seen prices that vary by 50% on the same item. If I were in your place and could swing the new or refurb price, that does sound like a better plan than the used prices you're seeing for some items.

If I were on a very tight budget I'd go for the GFA-6000, which is a 5-channel amp. That's why I asked about budget. If I had a thousand bucks to spend and could get the amplification handled for $250, I'd spend the remainder elsewhere.


So we both can't sleep tonight, hugh ;-)

Thats some good sound advice. I'll take my time and see what comes up. The GFA-6000 does sound interesting though. I guess I could use one of the 100W channels for the back speaker (since I don't have a center).

I'll check things out and tell you what I find. I appreciate your expert advice.

Best Regards,
Stan

[Mr Peabody]

I think you will be glad you lucked onto separates when all is set. You should try to add a center speaker next.

[frenchmon]

I was thinking that since B&W makes Rotel, that that would be the best match for my B&W 684's? Anyways, I appreciate everyone's comments. I'm looking for a used ADCOM or maybe a good deal on a new one.

Best Regards,
Stan

While many people seem to think B&W and Rotel have good synergy, there are other and perhaps better speakers that sound just as good if not better than a B&W and Rotel combo. Rotel is not owned by B&W...they are only distributed by the same company. B&W did purchase the Canadian company that makes high end gear called Classe, but they do not make the gear. They only purchased it a few years back while leaving the company as it where.

[harley .guy07]

I have worked with both the Adcom and Rotel brands and in my opinion the Adcom Amps are better overall if you compare units of the same power to each other. I own an Adcom amp and love it and have compared it to some other brands out there that are quite a bit more expensive and the Adcom allways held its own especially for the price. Now I used to sell Bowers and Wilkins speakers but it was years ago before that version of the 600 series speakers came out but the first generation 600 series that I sold sounded very good with Adcom equipment. But the first gen 600 series seems to have little in common with todays 600 series so without working with the newest 600 series I could not say for sure what the best amp for your speaker would be. But a multichannel Adcom if could be found for a good price would probably be something to look at closely.

[manlystanley]

It was three days since I won the ubid auction, so I called them up and asked: where is my pre-amp. They told me: "Sorry we made a mistake. Here's a $30 credit to compensate you. So, I've lost the GTP-870hd and am looking back into used. Such is life....

But, I appreciate you all's pointer on Adcom, I'll continue to look into them.

Best Regards,
Stan

[frenchmon]

I have worked with both the Adcom and Rotel brands and in my opinion the Adcom Amps are better overall if you compare units of the same power to each other. I own an Adcom amp and love it and have compared it to some other brands out there that are quite a bit more expensive and the Adcom allways held its own especially for the price. Now I used to sell Bowers and Wilkins speakers but it was years ago before that version of the 600 series speakers came out but the first generation 600 series that I sold sounded very good with Adcom equipment. But the first gen 600 series seems to have little in common with todays 600 series so without working with the newest 600 series I could not say for sure what the best amp for your speaker would be. But a multichannel Adcom if could be found for a good price would probably be something to look at closely.


Well I happen to own both now and differ with you. I happen to believe the Rotel is more balanced while the Adcom is a little heavy in the bottom end. The Rotel gives a smoother presentation from top to bottom... But they both are not bad budget amps.... its all subjective.

[frenchmon]

It was three days since I won the ubid auction, so I called them up and asked: where is my pre-amp. They told me: "Sorry we made a mistake. Here's a $30 credit to compensate you. So, I've lost the GTP-870hd and am looking back into used. Such is life....

But, I appreciate you all's pointer on Adcom, I'll continue to look into them.

Best Regards,
Stan


Thats just not right!!!! Something sounds fishy...So you win a low bid, but they dont like that you are the highest bidder so they just take it back? I smell a rat!

[frenchmon]

Do you think you could hop on this?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1255202271&/Adcom-GFA-6000-multi-channel-p

[Mr Peabody]

That's a bummer. You might want to consider looking at www.emotiva.com I'm not sure what their processor sells for but they are known for providing decent quality gear for a decent price. Several of the guys here have their power amps and say they are beasts. One guy whose opinion I respect prefers the Emotiva stereo amp to either of his Adcom or Rotel. I hate to give them a sell job without any experience first hand with it but I also hate to see some one done dirty like that too. Emo gives a 30 day trial and it may be a way to get into separates without a 2nd mortgage.

I definitely thought my 5400 had a bass hump but that's why I bought it for use in my 2nd system where I'd be playing mostly Rock & Pop for working out. The hump just gave it a full sound though it wasn't bloated or lacking definition. My 5500 is better balanced but still has a much stronger bottom end than I've ever heard from Rotel. To me Rotel is too laid back but if you don't notice that yourself the sound is pleasant. I think for home theater the more powerful sound of Adcom may be better. As Frenchmon says though, it's all subjective. Sometimes we are willing to overlook some weakness in one area to allow us to enjoy something we prefer in another area.

[harley .guy07]

When I worked Adcom and Rotel I seemed to like the 500 mk2 series better than the 5000 series Adcoms for overall balance of sound. The 545 through 565 had their different sound characters just like any amp out there but to me they were built better than the 5000 series and We used to open these amps up all the time when the reps were there to see exactly what we were selling. Our Rotel and Adcom amps amongst others let us look inside their products and from time to time we would set our amps up without the top plate on them to let our customers see exactly what makes these amps better in comparison to receivers and int. amps. You are right it is all subjective just like some people will like a certain speaker while the next will think it is to bright or to laid back for them. I guess its just up to the person and the ears that god gave ya.

[harley .guy07]

I will say the Adcom 5800 amp was one of the 5000 series amps that I felt was the exception to what I said. I powered very difficult to drive loads with that amp and it allways sat there and smilled at me and just poured out great clean and balanced sound to any speaker system it powered. I did fall in love with that amp I just did not need that big of an amp for my system at that time so I did not get one for myself but I did sell quite a few of them and never had one complaint, only praise.

[leroy millard]

I love adcom amps and there styles, owned a few now and then. More to try too.

[02audionoob]

A little anecdote...I went over to a craigslist seller's house to audition his speakers and he let me bring my own amp. When I got there I saw he had a Rotel amp...don't know which model...it was what he had been using to run the speakers I was considering. He hooked up my Adcom and we listened to various CDs of his and mine and guess what...he seemed to like my Adcom better than his Rotel.

[harley .guy07]

A little anecdote...I went over to a craigslist seller's house to audition his speakers and he let me bring my own amp. When I got there I saw he had a Rotel amp...don't know which model...it was what he had been using to run the speakers I was considering. He hooked up my Adcom and we listened to various CDs of his and mine and guess what...he seemed to like my Adcom better than his Rotel.

I ran into that all the time with these two brands when I sold them. Most often it would go Adcoms way and The owner and I also agreed with most of our customers on this.

[manlystanley]

I think you will be glad you lucked onto separates when all is set. You should try to add a center speaker next.

You are so correct. I'll also make sure not to get a cheap one. I bought a Jamo off of E-bay for $50. It was really a good deal. But, I was robbed. It's sitting in my storage area collecting dust. If anyone wants it, come on by.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

Do you think you could hop on this?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1255202271&/Adcom-GFA-6000-multi-channel-p


I did. It's marked as still for sale, but it's sold. Three people I've contacted at audiogon said that there equipment was already sold, but forgot to take the ad down. I'll keep looking.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

That's a bummer. You might want to consider looking at www.emotiva.com I'm not sure what their processor sells for but they are known for providing decent quality gear for a decent price. Several of the guys here have their power amps and say they are beasts.


Thanks! I'll check it out!

Best Regards,
Stan

[frenchmon]

That's a bummer. You might want to consider looking at www.emotiva.com I'm not sure what their processor sells for but they are known for providing decent quality gear for a decent price. Several of the guys here have their power amps and say they are beasts. One guy whose opinion I respect prefers the Emotiva stereo amp to either of his Adcom or Rotel. I hate to give them a sell job without any experience first hand with it but I also hate to see some one done dirty like that too. Emo gives a 30 day trial and it may be a way to get into separates without a 2nd mortgage.

I definitely thought my 5400 had a bass hump but that's why I bought it for use in my 2nd system where I'd be playing mostly Rock & Pop for working out. The hump just gave it a full sound though it wasn't bloated or lacking definition. My 5500 is better balanced but still has a much stronger bottom end than I've ever heard from Rotel. To me Rotel is too laid back but if you don't notice that yourself the sound is pleasant. I think for home theater the more powerful sound of Adcom may be better. As Frenchmon says though, it's all subjective. Sometimes we are willing to overlook some weakness in one area to allow us to enjoy something we prefer in another area.


Perhaps that is why I like the Rotel better. I hardly ever blast loud music anymore and my taste is mostly Jazz and some classical. While I do Run my Rotel with bookshelf speakers (Canton) in two channel I find they have a very good bottom end....but every once in a while I do power on a sub. For what I listen too I don't need a lot of bass. The Adcom is no way a bad amp. I just fid the Rotel more attractive for my needs in two channel. The Adcom is in my hometheater where its doing a wonderful job.

[harley .guy07]

Perhaps that is why I like the Rotel better. I hardly ever blast loud music anymore and my taste is mostly Jazz and some classical. While I do Run my Rotel with bookshelf speakers (Canton) in two channel I find they have a very good bottom end....but every once in a while I do power on a sub. For what I listen too I don't need a lot of bass. The Adcom is no way a bad amp. I just fid the Rotel more attractive for my needs in two channel. The Adcom is in my hometheater where its doing a wonderful job.

Rotel is a very good product and we never had problems with them when I sold them. Most of the time when we auditioned amps we ran bigger floorstanding speakers and the Rotel and Adcom both sounded wonderful doing this duty. And my opinion is just that, a opinion on what I heard when we auditioned these brands. With different setups and speakers the Rotel Amps might edge out in some ways but I think there are too many facters other than the amps themselves that can give one an edge over the other. And since everyones ears are different that is also a consideration when listening to systems. I guess thats one reason there are so many different types of components out there.

[nightflier]

If I could add another + to the Adcom camp, I've purchased and resold many Adcom amps and preamps and shipping/packing isn't on every seller's list of priorities. So I've had to have several repaired. What I can say about Adcom is that their service department and the local service centers that I've used, have all been excellent. Parts quality inside the amps has also been impressive and fairly standard fare so that servicing them has been relatively painless. In contrast, while NAD's service reps are great, they have some horrible service centers and don't seem to take as much interest in keeping track of this. Don't know about Rotel, but I have heard that they don't have as many authorized service centers as Adcom or NAD.

As someone who also considers himself a bargain hunter, I would also recommend looking at some of the smaller manufacturers and those that sell strictly online. Someone mentioned Emotiva, but there's also SVS, Benchmark, Axiom, Magnepan, PS Audio, Hsu, Outlaw, Channel Islands, Nohr, Odyssey Audio, Oppo, and a whole list of others who typically offer much more bang for the buck and great service to boot, than the big guys. I've recently been struggling with a pre/pro from Outlaw, but I think my situation is rather unique, because most of the reviews online have been excellent on service and quality. They are currently blowing out their flagship 970 because there's a new model coming soon, but that is an excellently reviewed and popular alternative to the Adcom you were considering. Their amps are also pretty good - they have several models to choose from - and they also offer b-stock with the same warranty and their new models.

Another two companies I think you should take a good look at are Anthem and Bryston. The latter offers a 20 year transferable warranty on their highly-regarded amps and will typically support their products well beyond that too. Anthem makes some of the best reviewed pre/pros on the market, and I just saw an AVM-20 sell for a hair over $400 on eBay. Their used prices tend to be comparable to what you're looking for and would certainly be on par, or even superior to Adcom, Rotel, or NAD.

[Mr Peabody]

Anthem is an excellent processor but when looking at the AVM20 it is not up to date with the latest technology. This will be a real consideration when buying a processor what video and audio connections do you want. If one is happy with Component video for HD and switching, and can get a Blu-ray player with built in decoding, it's pretty much a buyer's market and dirt cheap. If wanting the latest technology, it will cost. For example the AVM-20 was a $3k processor.

Although Adcom is good, it isn't Bryston, you just raised the bar, quite a bit in my opinion. Bryston is in another league from what we've been discussing. As far as that goes there have been some very good prices I've seen on older Krell 5-channel amps and some Conrad Johnson 5-channel. But even used these class of quality amps are quite a bit more than what you'd pay for an Adcom or Rotel.

[manlystanley]

You guys are great!! I really like the idea of getting an Anthem AVM20. My DVD player (Denon 3930ci) has really good component video, but since my projector does not support component I just run the HDMI directly to it. The player itself support lip synch (audio delay).

Some of the reviews said that the AVM20 was great at movies but not so good for 2-channel listening. What do you guys think?

I looked around and the AVM20's are going for $500 - $900. I'll continue to sniff around. Also, I looked into Bryston and look great to. I've got a low ball bid ($76) in on a Anthem TLP-1 with 5 days to go. Minimal odds of getting it, but who knows.

[nightflier]

Outlaw was running a special of $299 for their Model 970 pre/pro. It has DVI instead of HDMI, but an adapter can be used. At that price-point I think it's the least expensive pre/pro available. You might want to give them a call and see if you can still get that deal - they are very welcoming to new customers.

As Mr. P said, the Anthem AVM-20 maxes out a component video, but I certainly would not say that sound processing is its weak point. On the contrary, Anthem tends to shine in that area. If you can score one of these for under $500, that would be an incredible bargain. The TLP-1 at $76 would be another great bargain - they're still selling for around $300 on eBay.

My reason for bringing up Bryston is because of their excellent longevity. You can literally buy a 15-year old amp and still have 5 years of warranty (more than most new amps) left on it. And a 10-15 year old Bryston would certainly be in your price range. And yes, they are a notch above Adcom and NAD.

Check out some of the other smaller manufacturers and online dealers as well. They are very competitive with the big guys. I'm a big fan of SVS, Odyssey, Magnepan, and PS Audio, but there are many others.

[Mr Peabody]

I heard the AVM20 with a matching Anthem amp through Paradigm Studio something. Movies were impressive. The little music I heard was very good, my only criticism was I thought the bass could be stronger. But that could be from a number of things, I'm not sure how punchy Anthem's amps are and it was a large room. And who knows they may have even have a setting wrong to where the crossover was still on or the sub not engaged. If the features work for you the AVM20 would out perform the Adcom preamp in my opinion.

[manlystanley]

Mr P. frenchmon, harley, Nightfier and many others,
Great suggestions. You have given me plenty of information and so
I'm going starting to look for some good deals. As you suggested, I'm
looking for an: Anthem, Bryston, SVS, Odyssey, Magnepan, and PS Audio.

I'm particularly looking hard for a Anthem AVM20, as that does sound
like a great idea. I'll make sure to check back and tell you what I
find.

I've owned my H/K PM655 for about 3 months and while it's 20+ years
old, it sounds increasable! It only cost $35 but I had to do a lot of
work on it. It did have a new problem of a collapsing sound stage and
this new problem was what started my search for something new. But,
for the past few weeks it's worked like a champ, so I'm not in a big
rush now.

Thanks again for your expert help! I'll try to return the favor on
this forum.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

I wanted to pass off to you guys (for what it's worth) what I've found out so far in my quest for musical nirvana (via a cheap budget).

1.) Ebay is great: I am constantly one of the low ball bidders who get pushed out. But, hey it's kind of fun being in the lead for the first 3 days.

2.) What I've bid on and what they have sold for (minus shipping):
- Anthem TLP-1: Sold for $315.00
- Adcom GTP-600 (without a remote): $64
- Adcom GTP-870HD $680

I've got my chips in a few other deals and we'll see how they work out. Anyways, it's kind of fun trying to do this on the cheap.

Best Regards,
Stan

[Mr Peabody]

Have you browsed www.audiogon.com for good deals? No bidding, on classifieds, if you see a good deal just contact the seller to see if a deal can be put together.

A word of caution on older processors, not all may be compatible with HD even though they have component video. Component has been around a long time because it is the better video connection, aside from HDMI, but it was later when HDTV became big that the processors began to include the bandwidth to accomodate HD video. So maybe try to stay within the last 3 or so generations or find some info on your perspective purchase to see if the video circuitry is addressed.

[manlystanley]

Have you browsed www.audiogon.com for good deals? No bidding, on classifieds, if you see a good deal just contact the seller to see if a deal can be put together.

A word of caution on older processors, not all may be compatible with HD even though they have component video. Component has been around a long time because it is the better video connection, aside from HDMI, but it was later when HDTV became big that the processors began to include the bandwidth to accomodate HD video. So maybe try to stay within the last 3 or so generations or find some info on your perspective purchase to see if the video circuitry is addressed.


Hello Mr. P,
Again, some great advice. I'm in a mode of: "what I have is good enough for now", but if something great came along I'd jump at it". So, I'm learning from more experienced people like yourself and testing the waters at both ebay, and audiogon. Nothing has come up yet, but I'm not in a huge rush....but if my H/K PM 655 finally gives up the ghost, then I'll need to do something.

... Long delay........

....Ekk.. My basement tenant just came and told me that "her ceiling is raining". It turned out that my youngest (almost 6 years old) was washing dishes in the kitchen and pouring water all over everything. This is the same daughter who took off all her cloths and covered herself head to foot with petroleum jelly......then climbed on top of my B&W 684's and was jumping off of them....etc....... Maybe I'll hold off on new stereo stuff for a while....


Best Regards,
Stan

[Mr Peabody]

Whooo, has the young one been watching too many super heroes. :)