Onkyo, move over

[02audionoob]

In the world of high-def home-theater audio on a budget, there's a new sheriff in town. It's the Pioneer VSX-819H. Take that, Onkyo. :ciappa:

[thekid]

02

Are you basing this because you are now the new owner of one or from reviews you have read?

This unit looks like an upgraded version of my VSX-815 which was S&V's Editor's Choice for 2005.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/1156/2005-editors-choice-awards.html

It looks like this version comes in at a price even better than the first though I think I got my 815 on sale at BB for less than $299. Pioneer produces some great HT recievers in this price range and the dollar/per feature ratio is probably among the best that can be found from any any brand.

[02audionoob]

I am indeed the proud owner...and very happy with it. It sounds even better than I expected. Automatic setup with the microphone worked very well. The remote is intuitively laid out. The features are what I want without a lot extra. It's all good.

[Mr Peabody]

There's more to a receiver than just features. I've yet to see a Pioneer have the balls of an Onkyo, or much balls at all.

[02audionoob]

There's more to a receiver than just features. I've yet to see a Pioneer have the balls of an Onkyo, or much balls at all.

This particular Pioneer was indeed not provided with balls, but it does nicely for movies and television.

[pixelthis]

This particular Pioneer was indeed not provided with balls, but it does nicely for movies and television.

Well, Onkyo products have "balls" aplenty, I have had an Intregra for five years,
and the NCR (neighbor complain ratio) is a testament to its goodness.
Some higher end Pioneer is pretty good, but they are not the audio manufacturer they used to be, most of their cheaper stuff is plastic disaposable stuff.
However, if you can't swing an Onkyo...:1:

[02audionoob]

Well, Onkyo products have "balls" aplenty, I have had an Intregra for five years,
and the NCR (neighbor complain ratio) is a testament to its goodness.
Some higher end Pioneer is pretty good, but they are not the audio manufacturer they used to be, most of their cheaper stuff is plastic disaposable stuff.
However, if you can't swing an Onkyo...:1:

Now that I'm past my college days, disturbing the neighbors really isn't my bag. I use a home theater receiver to enhance my movie-watching experience - not overwhelm it. Times are hard and all, but I could probably scratch together the money for an Onkyo if I tried really hard.:wink5:

[Mr Peabody]

Well the 819 does provide a lot of features and at $249.00 I'm sure it will be a good seller. User reviews seem to be positive. With functioning HDMI and features like on board HD audio decoding, auto set up and USB, it will be the leading entry level piece for sure and with JVC gone this part of the market was left void.

[Worf101]

My first DVD player was a Pioneer. The experience with them and their "customer service" led to many firsts in my AV life.

1. First time I had a new product die on me inside of 6 months.
2. First time I sent electronic device away for service.
3. First time I got back a broken item instead of a repaired one.
4 First time I cursed out a service rep over the phone.
5 First time I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
6 First time I got a full refund, minus shipping, from a manufacturer.
7. Last time I'll EVER buy anything with the name Pioneer on it..

Good luck with your purchases, don't say I didn't warn you.

Da Worfster

[audio amateur]

Nice one Noob, hope you enjoy it:)

[thekid]

Well my experiences with Pioneer have been positive. The VSX 815 has taken some abuse from my kids and I am the original owner of a 23 year old CD player (yeah i do buy buys things new from time to time... :D ). Like my Onkyo gear as well so I don't see this as either/or situation.

If 02 likes his new piece then more power to him. Personally I like my gear minus the sac since it makes closing the cabinet on them more difficult and it has a low WAF......... :)

Enjoy the day everyone!!!!!!!

[02audionoob]

One bad experience with a component or a customer service rep doesn't define the entire company for decades. I too have an approximately 23-year-old Pioneer CD player that is still running and I have a Pioneer CD Recorder that I bought sometime in the 90's that also still works the same as new. I have had no dealings with Pioneer, given that I haven't needed any, so I can't say what their customer service is like.

I would say there is not a consistent quality difference across the board that can define each of the major brands. We've all had our bad experiences, but most likely all with different brands. While I respect the opinions of those who post here in this forum, I also know I have to think for myself. This Pioneer receiver cost me a whopping $160 and it does exactly what I want from it...decode high-def audio...and it sounds very nice.

Now somehow I'm guessing items like my Audio Research CA50, PS Audio DLIII, Music Hall MMF-5 and ProAc Tri-Towers would establish that I could afford an Onkyo TX-SR507. I won't be making Fremer jealous, but it at least establishes a point of reference. That's not the point of my original post, though. My point is that for thrifty home theater, Onkyo isn't the only option. In fact, it's perhaps not even the best option. My opinion stands.

[Mr Peabody]

Was $160.00 new? If so, maybe you should post where you bought it, if online. That's even cheaper than the price I saw when checking it out but, of course, I wasn't trying to find the cheapest price either. That's crazy cheap for what all it's supposed to do.

[02audionoob]

It was from a Craigslist seller, but it was still new. The box had been opened, but nothing had been unwrapped.

[Worf101]

One bad experience with a component or a customer service rep doesn't define the entire company for decades. I too have an approximately 23-year-old Pioneer CD player that is still running and I have a Pioneer CD Recorder that I bought sometime in the 90's that also still works the same as new. I have had no dealings with Pioneer, given that I haven't needed any, so I can't say what their customer service is like.

I would say there is not a consistent quality difference across the board that can define each of the major brands. We've all had our bad experiences, but most likely all with different brands. While I respect the opinions of those who post here in this forum, I also know I have to think for myself. This Pioneer receiver cost me a whopping $160 and it does exactly what I want from it...decode high-def audio...and it sounds very nice.

Now somehow I'm guessing items like my Audio Research CA50, PS Audio DLIII, Music Hall MMF-5 and ProAc Tri-Towers would establish that I could afford an Onkyo TX-SR507. I won't be making Fremer jealous, but it at least establishes a point of reference. That's not the point of my original post, though. My point is that for thrifty home theater, Onkyo isn't the only option. In fact, it's perhaps not even the best option. My opinion stands.
I hope your experience with this product is all you want it to be. I was simply relating my experience with that brand and why I'll never touch it again. I wouldn't wish my experience on a dog nor an enemy. I made this vow to myself almost 8 years ago to pay them back tenfold for the grief given me this was merely one more opportunity to keep that vow. If someone google's Pioneer and digs deep enough, they'll find my opinion of them and their products I will spit on them and theirs with my last dying breath.

Da Worfster

[pixelthis]

One bad experience with a component or a customer service rep doesn't define the entire company for decades. I too have an approximately 23-year-old Pioneer CD player that is still running and I have a Pioneer CD Recorder that I bought sometime in the 90's that also still works the same as new. I have had no dealings with Pioneer, given that I haven't needed any, so I can't say what their customer service is like.

I would say there is not a consistent quality difference across the board that can define each of the major brands. We've all had our bad experiences, but most likely all with different brands. While I respect the opinions of those who post here in this forum, I also know I have to think for myself. This Pioneer receiver cost me a whopping $160 and it does exactly what I want from it...decode high-def audio...and it sounds very nice.

Now somehow I'm guessing items like my Audio Research CA50, PS Audio DLIII, Music Hall MMF-5 and ProAc Tri-Towers would establish that I could afford an Onkyo TX-SR507. I won't be making Fremer jealous, but it at least establishes a point of reference. That's not the point of my original post, though. My point is that for thrifty home theater, Onkyo isn't the only option. In fact, it's perhaps not even the best option. My opinion stands.

Sounds like a deal.
I too had a Pioneer from the era of your CD player, an integrated amp (ten wpc!)
that was pratically indestructible, cost 125 bucks.
A friend fished a 10 - something from the seventies out of a dumpster once,
sold it to me for a few bucks. worked great.
But that pioneer is not todays pioneer.
Maybe I am showing my age, but all of those features crammed into such a cheap device
has to have a catch somewhere, and I am glad you're going to find it and not me,
is all.:1:

[02audionoob]

Maybe I am showing my age, but all of those features crammed into such a cheap device
has to have a catch somewhere, and I am glad you're going to find it and not me,
is all.:1:

Whether you admit it or not, Onkyo is packing all of those features into such a cheap device, too.

[pixelthis]

Whether you admit it or not, Onkyo is packing all of those features into such a cheap device, too.

Sadly you are right.
That is why I bought the Integra version of their product, even tho a lot of the extra "features" are cosmetic I figured they would put a tad more care into parts and construction.
Receiver manufacturers are under a lot of price pressure these days, and its really sad.
For someone with even the modest knowledge of electronics I have its downright silly
to think that you have all of those high powered amps, HDMI switching, video transcoding,
etc in one package for such a cheap price.
The Chinese work cheap but not that cheap.
The last "real" receiver I had was a top of the line Denon, before they got into HT.
75 watts rms x 2, half of the case was power supply and amps, the rest pre-amp and tuner,
both in their own chassis.
600 bucks(around 1500 today).
Corners are being cut somewhere.:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Worf, I'm glad to see you wouldn't hold a grudge :)

[pixelthis]

I hope your experience with this product is all you want it to be. I was simply relating my experience with that brand and why I'll never touch it again. I wouldn't wish my experience on a dog nor an enemy. I made this vow to myself almost 8 years ago to pay them back tenfold for the grief given me this was merely one more opportunity to keep that vow. If someone google's Pioneer and digs deep enough, they'll find my opinion of them and their products I will spit on them and theirs with my last dying breath.

Da Worfster

i HAVE HEARD SIMILAR about their new plastic products.
Funny thing, I have had similar experiences with Toshiba, I wouldn't buy a
Tosh flashlight, but when you relate your tale of woe those listening tend to be a bit,
ah, "dubious". They sometimes find it hard to beleive and think you are embelishing.
But being treated like dirt by someone you gave your hard earned money to is
something you always remember, makes you feel like a fool.
I went through such 20 years ago with a local car dealer, and still curse
his name. It sticks with you.:1:

[frahengeo]

Sadly you are right.
That is why I bought the Integra version of their product, even tho a lot of the extra "features" are cosmetic I figured they would put a tad more care into parts and construction.
Receiver manufacturers are under a lot of price pressure these days, and its really sad.
For someone with even the modest knowledge of electronics I have its downright silly
to think that you have all of those high powered amps, HDMI switching, video transcoding,
etc in one package for such a cheap price.
The Chinese work cheap but not that cheap.
The last "real" receiver I had was a top of the line Denon, before they got into HT.
75 watts rms x 2, half of the case was power supply and amps, the rest pre-amp and tuner,
both in their own chassis.
600 bucks(around 1500 today).
Corners are being cut somewhere.:1:

If its all going to be obsolete in a few years, then maybe the $200.00 receiver is the way to go.

[E-Stat]

The experience with them ...
I'm not a Pioneer apologist, but my experience has been very different. I bought a PD-54 CDP back in '95 and it works just fine today. I bought a 70s vintage TX-6200 tuner used over ebay sometime ago and it also works fine. The power switch broke in the off position, so I just wired around it and use switched outlets with the power conditioner. I'm using a used PD-F27 changer in the garage as a transport and it also has worked just fine, despite the fact that they are mechanically complex and potentially prone to failure. Just another two cents.

rw

[pixelthis]

I'm not a Pioneer apologist, but my experience has been very different. I bought a PD-54 CDP back in '95 and it works just fine today. I bought a 70s vintage TX-6200 tuner used over ebay sometime ago and it also works fine. The power switch broke in the off position, so I just wired around it and use switched outlets with the power conditioner. I'm using a used PD-F27 changer in the garage as a transport and it also has worked just fine, despite the fact that they are mechanically complex and potentially prone to failure. Just another two cents.

rw

Pioneer made good stuff, and their ELITE line is still very good, but their mainline
equipment has been a joke for years, cheap plastic receivers with IC amps, etc.
They did a double blind test on amps a few years back, I posted the link somewhere on this site, and as a joke put a pioneer receiver with the slider graphic eq on the front,
basically a sub 200 $ receiver, in the competition.
Over fifty percent picked it as best sounding, BTW, but the reason it was picked for the
tewst shows what low regard some Pioneer have these days.
I guess the fact that over fifty percent picked it is a testament to PIONEERS glory
days.:1:

[BadAssJazz]

Whether you admit it or not, Onkyo is packing all of those features into such a cheap device, too.

One of the reasons why I decided to go the separates route, even if the unit didn't have all of the latest bells and whistles. I used to own an Onkyo TXSR805 -- and don't get me wrong, that was a phenomenal receiver for the price -- but I still found myself asking that annoying question musically: what am I not hearing? I stopped asking that question after I got my hands on the Rotel. It's not the end all or be all, but for once I finally think that I'm hearing everything that I'm supposed to hear.