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nightflier
08-14-2009, 09:02 AM
So before I dawn my pompons and join the cheerleading squad for the Oppo BDP-83, I wanted to get this question resolved: what is the deal with Oppo leaving out DTS-ES and DD-EX decoding? I know Oppo tried to throw everything in with the kitchen sink, but why leave that out? More importantly, is this something that is in there but not yet active (and then will be activated with a software update later)?

Like everyone else who has a sizable investment in a non-HDMI pre/pro, I was planning on using the analog outputs of the Oppo and the internal sound processing to get the highest quality surround sound out of this player. That's all fine an dandy for BR of which I own, what, 3 overpriced movies, but what about my substantial collection of DVDs, many of which I purchased specifically because they had high-quality audio soundtracks in the first place. If I go with the Oppo and use the analog outputs, what will I be loosing over my current DVD player (that I was sort of hoping to retire)?

The reviews are all gushing over the plusses of this player, but not much mention of what is being left out. I'm not trying to knock Oppo or anything, but a little clarification would help.

Freewillisdead112
08-14-2009, 09:15 AM
From what I have read about alot of BR players, they just leave the others out and sum It up with the new formats but seem to be always backwords compatible.

pixelthis
08-15-2009, 05:52 PM
So before I dawn my pompons and join the cheerleading squad for the Oppo BDP-83, I wanted to get this question resolved: what is the deal with Oppo leaving out DTS-ES and DD-EX decoding? I know Oppo tried to throw everything in with the kitchen sink, but why leave that out? More importantly, is this something that is in there but not yet active (and then will be activated with a software update later)?

Like everyone else who has a sizable investment in a non-HDMI pre/pro, I was planning on using the analog outputs of the Oppo and the internal sound processing to get the highest quality surround sound out of this player. That's all fine an dandy for BR of which I own, what, 3 overpriced movies, but what about my substantial collection of DVDs, many of which I purchased specifically because they had high-quality audio soundtracks in the first place. If I go with the Oppo and use the analog outputs, what will I be loosing over my current DVD player (that I was sort of hoping to retire)?

The reviews are all gushing over the plusses of this player, but not much mention of what is being left out. I'm not trying to knock Oppo or anything, but a little clarification would help.

OH PULEEEZE.
Out of that "sizable" DVD collection just how many have EX and ES anyway?
As long as the 7.1 puts out the new lossless formats, that is going to be the major concern for most.
You get an improved picture with DVD(slightly anyway) and DD 5.1 so be happy with that.
I HAVE A "LEGACY" (obsolete) receiver also and teh new formats are way more important.
OPPO put everything else in , including SACD and DVD-A , so the exclusion of
something that most wont care about is reasonable.
(my Sony blu has these, BTW).:1:

nightflier
08-17-2009, 08:33 AM
I'm not trying to knock Oppo. They've obviously put a lot into the player, but I just want to know if this is something that can be added with a software update or not.

By the way, I do have a lot of titles with DTS-ES & DD-EX. I actually sought those out in deciding which disks I would keep. Likewise, when/if I do build up a new collection with BR, I intend on doing just the same. I really don't see the point of buying into a format if you can't enjoy everything it's capable of.

... kind of like owning an SACD player that only outputs to 2 channels - OK all you Marantz owners, I've got my slickers on, let it fly!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
08-18-2009, 10:52 AM
From what I understand the Oppo can decode Dts-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD and all of its variants as well. Since I bitstream everything to my pre-pro, I have never had a problem with decoding EX or ES as my receiver decodes them both. I have two Oppos now, and I certainly would not pass it up behind a lossy codecs enhancements.

Besides, you would be hard pressed to find many EX or ES encoded Blu-ray disc. Out of a collection of nearly 900 Blurays, I have found only ten spread between both enhancements. Now that we actually have 8 channels to work with, EX and ES are kind of passe, outdated, and no longer needed.

pixelthis
08-18-2009, 10:58 AM
I'm not trying to knock Oppo. They've obviously put a lot into the player, but I just want to know if this is something that can be added with a software update or not.

By the way, I do have a lot of titles with DTS-ES & DD-EX. I actually sought those out in deciding which disks I would keep. Likewise, when/if I do build up a new collection with BR, I intend on doing just the same. I really don't see the point of buying into a format if you can't enjoy everything it's capable of.

... kind of like owning an SACD player that only outputs to 2 channels - OK all you Marantz owners, I've got my slickers on, let it fly!

I only use two channels on my player, actually prefer it, but dont have any choice
anyway because my BLU uses my multichannel.
Hate to admit it but talky is right, with more channels AVAILABLE in BLU the lossy codecs
are probably going to go by the boards.:1:

nightflier
08-19-2009, 01:22 PM
Well that's all fine for BR, but what about DVD where DTS-ES and DD-EX are much more prevalent? As I said originally, I have just a few BR movies but a whole collection of DVDs. I'm interested in the Oppo because of it's outstanding support for DVD, upconversion, and sound quality, but without DTS-ES and DD-EX, it kind of puts a kink in that armor. I guess I have two questions about it then:

- Is it possible for Oppo to add support for DTS-ES and DD-EX with a software update?
- What will the Oppo player do with DTS-ES and DD-EX encoded disks?

The bottom line is I really don't want to have a whole shelf occupied with a separate pre/pro just for DTS-ES and DD-EX disks, not to mention that switching between the two wouldn't be pleasant either.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
08-19-2009, 03:14 PM
Well that's all fine for BR, but what about DVD where DTS-ES and DD-EX are much more prevalent? As I said originally, I have just a few BR movies but a whole collection of DVDs. I'm interested in the Oppo because of it's outstanding support for DVD, upconversion, and sound quality, but without DTS-ES and DD-EX, it kind of puts a kink in that armor. I guess I have two questions about it then:

Perhaps you should stick with DVD, and worry about a better DVD player than getting a Blu-ray player. You are putting such a high priority on two legacy codecs(enhanced) that are not even much used on Blu-ray, and Blu-ray is what the player should be about. The way EX and ES tracks are encoded, you really do not need the decoder anyway. To buy a Blu-ray player to support you small collection of EX and ES DVD titles(just over a hundred between the two formats) doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I know (and I have two players) the Oppo supports all DD and Dts format including ES and EX. I have played(with internal decoding) Stargate on Blu-ray which contains ES coding on the sixth center rear channel just fine.


- Is it possible for Oppo to add support for DTS-ES and DD-EX with a software update?
- What will the Oppo player do with DTS-ES and DD-EX encoded disks?

The answer to the first is yes.

The answer to the second is that it plays them.


The bottom line is I really don't want to have a whole shelf occupied with a separate pre/pro just for DTS-ES and DD-EX disks, not to mention that switching between the two wouldn't be pleasant either.

Why in the hell would you invest any money supporting old codecs on essentially old media? The Oppo is a great Blu-ray player, and if it does not decode a small fraction of the DVD releases with enhanced encoding(Dolby Digital and Dts are the original encodings) why in the heck would you pass on a extremely competent player of DVD's because of a undecoded back channel(which I don't think is the case at all). If I was more interested in getting ES or EX, then I wouldn't buy into Blu-ray at all. Get a DVD player! To be sure, EX and ES is not all that prevalent on DVD. There are only 119 EX titles, 98 Dts-ES titles and 60 Dts-ES discrete titles out of 100,000 or so releases on the format. Not what I would call prevalent.

nightflier
08-20-2009, 09:12 AM
I know there aren't that many titles, although I do own a few of them. But I'm still confused by what you are saying. You said that your Oppo BDP-83 does decode DTS-ES and DD-EX, but that contradicts what the reviewers have been saying.

I know there are only a few universal +BR players out there, but I consider this purchase an investment so I don't mind spending a little more on another player, if it does a better job with sound. I haven't read this anywhere, actually I haven't read a comparison between the Oppo and any other players (like the Denon), but if there is one out there, I would really like to read it. From everything I've read the Oppo is without comparison, but that's all prefaced with the price-tag. I wish reviewers would just ignore that for once and compare the Oppo to the competition based on features rather than price.

pixelthis
08-20-2009, 09:36 AM
I know there aren't that many titles, although I do own a few of them. But I'm still confused by what you are saying. You said that your Oppo BDP-83 does decode DTS-ES and DD-EX, but that contradicts what the reviewers have been saying.

I know there are only a few universal +BR players out there, but I consider this purchase an investment so I don't mind spending a little more on another player, if it does a better job with sound. I haven't read this anywhere, actually I haven't read a comparison between the Oppo and any other players (like the Denon), but if there is one out there, I would really like to read it. From everything I've read the Oppo is without comparison, but that's all prefaced with the price-tag. I wish reviewers would just ignore that for once and compare the Oppo to the competition based on features rather than price.

I guess its a preference, but I have never understood the idea of adding more speakers
and more amps, etc. Now they have extra speakers in front "tall" and "wide", its really getting rather silly, I tried the two extra centers in the rear when I first got my receiver
and it added little if anything, certainly wasn't worth the extra expense.
But isnt this something that is "passed along" to the decoder anyway?
Isn't this something your receiver can handle?
I am always hearing stuff going from left rear to right rear and vice versa,
with plenty of definition.
A phantom rear center does just fine for me.
I hate to admit it but talkys right, its a time of change and a lots going by the boards,
and ex and es looks to be one of them.
I do know that with repeated BLU watching the increasingly occasional DVD
viewing becomes less and less important.
I still watch stuff on SD cable, but while the PQ is okay its no comparison to HD,
I just watch because I want to see the program, dont expect too much.
Same way with my DVD watching.
Truth is, the sound on BLU is so good that all DVD soundtracks pale by comparison anyway, the diff between 1.5 lossy and lossless is HUGE.
I just watch the program and the sound is never going to measure up to BLU so I dont waste any effort on it, save music DVD.
The sound on those is quite good.:1: