Looking to add a amp to my Int. amp!!!

[Freewillisdead112]

My old pioneer int. amp has pre-outs and I was thinking about updating its 50wpc to 75 or 100wpc

my jbls could use a little more power, i hear strain alot. and not to mention, i am in the mist of upgrading speakers....but this is a upgrade for a bedroom system, the amp will be used for my jbl hls-810's for as long as they work/make me happy

this system will be used until i get a suitable amp/int/pre-amp for what ever vintage speakers i buy. So power would be nice =]

I will upgrade to a pre-amp if i am not happy with the use of my old int. amp

but only if it seems fitting

I will be buying used

wanna stay in the 100-200 range for something that will make a sonic difference

thanks guys!

[harley .guy07]

The amp that I use and have used since the mid 90's is the Adcom 545 mk2. Its in my opinion one of the best sounding amps Adcom ever made and if you look around I have seen them go for around 150 to 200 bucks. They sound as good or better than allot of amps costing well into the thousands and is rated at 100 wpc into 8 ohms. This amp can drive very hard to drive speakers without problem and has a smooth and transparent quality that will do most speakers well. I have hooked it up to 3000 dollar mirage m3's which are somewhat difficult to drive and it made them sound great. I have run the big cerwin vega dx 9's with it and it hammered them. I'm not a vega fan but this amp made them sound probably the best you could make them sound. Very good buy and I think you could hook this amp to your JBL's or any other of the speakers mentioned and it would make them sound good.

[Freewillisdead112]

well good enough, thanks again for another good insight

i love adcom stuff, just the way it looks is quite charming

I still to this day havnt herd anything by them, but with all the people that live there lives by adcom and rotel i wouldnt doubt there products for nothing.

every company puts out a lemon even when you hit the insane, second mortgage on the home stereos. so i have at least learned brand is never brand sensitive. and its also by ear as well!

if it can make a pair of cerwins sound good then sir, that might be the amp for me!

cuz i thought nothing could make those metal wannabees sound good =]

[harley .guy07]

Yeah I'm not much of a vega fan eiher. The Rotel stuff is good to and they are making some AV receivers now that are pretty sweet. What I like about my amp is that you can make a good set of speakers better by way of effortless clean power that really allows a speaker to show what its capabilities are. Plus since they were made in the mid 90's they can be found dirt cheap these days.

I just noticed that you are a Axiom fan. I love the fact that they produce a very well built, great sounding product for about half the price or lower than the competition. Their stuff is usually compared to products that are way above their price. I'm thinking about ordering the m60 v2's myself. I am going to look around and demo some other brands out there as well but I am almost convinced to try them.

[02audionoob]

What source components are you going to use for the bedroom system? What are the dimensions of the room?

[Mr Peabody]

I 2nd the Adcom. The 545 is good and the 5400 is a good choice as well. I used a 5400 to drive a pair of Dynaudio Audience 60's for a few years before snagging a more powerful and improved sound of a 5500. Rotel is reliable and people seem to like them but for rockin the Adcom will have more slam especially in the bottom end.

If you can find anything in the Kenwood Basic series M1 or M2 they are also very good and sell pretty cheap used. M1 is 100x2 and M2 is 200x2 with a cooling fan.

[Freewillisdead112]

Yeah I'm not much of a vega fan eiher. The Rotel stuff is good to and they are making some AV receivers now that are pretty sweet. What I like about my amp is that you can make a good set of speakers better by way of effortless clean power that really allows a speaker to show what its capabilities are. Plus since they were made in the mid 90's they can be found dirt cheap these days.

I just noticed that you are a Axiom fan. I love the fact that they produce a very well built, great sounding product for about half the price or lower than the competition. Their stuff is usually compared to products that are way above their price. I'm thinking about ordering the m60 v2's myself. I am going to look around and demo some other brands out there as well but I am almost convinced to try them.

I just love they way they look, so original and plain but with a edge that makes you smile

I am saving for a pair of the medium bookshelfs here soon, I dont think ive read one bad (price to sound) review on anyting axiom makes besides the smallest sub, which is crap!!

thanks alot for telling me about that amp!

ill keep my eye out!

[Freewillisdead112]

What source components are you going to use for the bedroom system? What are the dimensions of the room?

I have a 80's pioneer sa-730
looking for a cd player
and have jbl hls-810

Im just building off what i have!

im wanting to buy the amp to have it when im ready for a pre-amp. Im going room to room and making what i can happen

I wont have the apartment till febuary but it is quite small. i will get dimentions for yall soon as the wife gets home!

[02audionoob]

The reason I asked about source components is - My bedroom audio system is just an Adcom GFA-545II amp and an Adcom GCD-575 CD player, which has its own volume control. It was cheap, simple and sounds very good with my JBL S38 speakers. Since I have only one source and it has a volume control, I can do without the preamp.

The reason I asked about dimensions is, an Adcom GFA-535 is only 60 watts per channel, but it's a quality 60 watts. It sounds good and it's plenty of power for small rooms. I used to have one in a 12 x 15 x 8 room and it sounded very good. It could save you money as compared to the GFA-545 and leave more room for a GFP-555 preamp. That said, though...I do have a GFA-545II and I like it very well. I got such a bargain I couldn't pass it up.

[Freewillisdead112]

i have never seen a amp with a volume control!

thats kinda cool for one source hook up. i mostly am doing it for the binding post gain and a little more clean power, i love the depth my pioneer gives me, but i can hear its end points. plus the binding post gain would be fantastic!

[02audionoob]

i have never seen a amp with a volume control!


Clarification...It is my Adcom CD player that has the volume control...not the Adcom amp.

There are amps that have some type of volume control, though. Just off the top of my head, the AudioSource AMP100 has a volume knob. I believe the Kenwood Basic M1 has separate knobs to control the input level for each channel.

[harley .guy07]

Clarification...It is my Adcom CD player that has the volume control...not the Adcom amp.

There are amps that have some type of volume control, though. Just off the top of my head, the AudioSource AMP100 has a volume knob. I believe the Kenwood Basic M1 has separate knobs to control the input level for each channel.

Sometimes having gain controls on power amps help integrate different preamps and source components so you have the cleanest overall preamp to amp signal. Its not a popular thing in the home systems but in the pro audio world its almost a must.

[Freewillisdead112]

man, i was just about to ask that! who makes a good cd player with volume control? I figured that would be nice

at the audio store near me where i got to listen to some new b&w's the guy had a cary cdp and a krell amp. JESUS! if i could dig myself a money hole, if grab a pair of those floor standing bowers and that setup. I almost lost my mind!

he was telling me that helps with keeping things simple and less things to degenerate the sound. which made sence to me, seeing as there was less interconnects.

I was scared to take home the bowers seeing as I knew it wouldnt sound as good at home as it did there!

[harley .guy07]

man, i was just about to ask that! who makes a good cd player with volume control? I figured that would be nice

at the audio store near me where i got to listen to some new b&w's the guy had a cary cdp and a krell amp. JESUS! if i could dig myself a money hole, if grab a pair of those floor standing bowers and that setup. I almost lost my mind!

he was telling me that helps with keeping things simple and less things to degenerate the sound. which made sence to me, seeing as there was less interconnects.

I was scared to take home the bowers seeing as I knew it wouldnt sound as good at home as it did there!


In general the less the components in line the cleaner the signal and the more natural the sound will be. But a preamp of very high end quality should not degrade the signal as long as you use good interconnect cables and the unit is in sound condition. The BandW's are very good speakers and I have worked with them allot when I managed a high end shop a few years ago where I live. I am not a big fan of the 600 series because you can get better for the money but besides that most of their other speakers are very very good and their build quality is something to look at. I am not sure which one you heard but in any case the speakers are always the more important of the choices in your system and even if your receiver or amp is not the best you can always upgrade later. I have seen people spend 3/4 of their budget on speakers and budgeted the rest of their system because of this. Remember you can always upgrade receivers or amps, cables, cd players or whatever else. But your speakers are going to be what you hear and without the quality in the speakers you could have the best amp and bad sound.

[Freewillisdead112]

true true!

speakers are the head of the game!

I always hate going to a high end shop and looking at the source and being like, um i can afford the speakers, but jeeze, gotta sell the house to get the amp!

The is a place called audio craft out my way that does higher low end to insane high end, so you can have them hook up a run in the mill amp to any speakers there! so its kind of nice to know what your getting, since alot of those places wont let you bring your stuff with you try out

Im curious to hear the new paradigm stuff, cuz i loved my pair with there midrange that made me melt, and they were only entry level speakers. but hoping the highs are a little more out there on the monitor series items, my set i would put the treable on MAX and they would still be to soft. but if could have somehow gotten past that, they were amazing speakers! i got the 5se-mk3's and original atoms and a kenwood receiver for 120 bucks!

sold it all and hooked it up for 500 bucks =], at least i got something out of it, i wasnt going to sell them for anywhere close to what i paid, or they were being kept as they were fantastic for rap and softer rock!

any paradigm to look at?

[harley .guy07]

true true!

speakers are the head of the game!

I always hate going to a high end shop and looking at the source and being like, um i can afford the speakers, but jeeze, gotta sell the house to get the amp!

The is a place called audio craft out my way that does higher low end to insane high end, so you can have them hook up a run in the mill amp to any speakers there! so its kind of nice to know what your getting, since alot of those places wont let you bring your stuff with you try out

Im curious to hear the new paradigm stuff, cuz i loved my pair with there midrange that made me melt, and they were only entry level speakers. but hoping the highs are a little more out there on the monitor series items, my set i would put the treable on MAX and they would still be to soft. but if could have somehow gotten past that, they were amazing speakers! i got the 5se-mk3's and original atoms and a kenwood receiver for 120 bucks!

sold it all and hooked it up for 500 bucks =], at least i got something out of it, i wasnt going to sell them for anywhere close to what i paid, or they were being kept as they were fantastic for rap and softer rock!

any paradigm to look at?


I own the monitor 7 v2 and they are very good speakers and when they introduced the monitor line they changed the tweeter to a titanium unit which to say the least is an improvement over their earlier designs. I am not a fan of the new monitor v6 though due to the fact that there are other brands that sound better for the money(Axiom being one of them). There new studio reference and signature stuff is great but at a cost. If I were in the used speaker market and wanted Paradigm I would be lookng at maybe the monitor 7 v 2 to v4 since they have been out for a while they are going for descent prices and offer allot for the money to anyone looking for a floorstanding speaker in the sub 400 dollar mark. have seen these speakers go for as little as a couple hundred bucks if you look around. Even the monitor 7 v1 is a good buy if cheap enough.

[Mr Peabody]

Don't sell short the source, if your source unit don't retrieve the detail off the disc nothing you will do downstream will allow you to hear that detail because it isn't there. So the best speaker in the world is just wasted because you aren't sending it anything, garbage in, garbage out.

If your source is only a 80's CD player then your first upgrade should be a CD player. Digital playback has grown astronomically since then. An entry level Cambridge or Marantz would open your ears compared to what you have and those players aren't hard to beat.

[harley .guy07]

Don't sell short the source, if your source unit don't retrieve the detail off the disc nothing you will do downstream will allow you to hear that detail because it isn't there. So the best speaker in the world is just wasted because you aren't sending it anything, garbage in, garbage out.

If your source is only a 80's CD player then your first upgrade should be a CD player. Digital playback has grown astronomically since then. An entry level Cambridge or Marantz would open your ears compared to what you have and those players aren't hard to beat.

I completely agree. I think your system is only as good as your weakest link. be it a CD player or your amp or receiver. But as well you can have the best source components and amplification in the world but if your speakers cant produce the quality they are being fed then its all for nothing. So you are right in saying that a good CD player is needed to give the kind of accurate smooth response that the better units are known for. It all comes down to knowing how to put together components of great quality with the quality of cables needed to drive speakers that will allow these great components to shine. It takes knowledge and sometimes allot of tweaking and trying different things to make this perfect balance happen.

[Mr Peabody]

Harley, I notice you have mentioned "good cables" in a couple of your replies, it's good to have some one else from that camp here. :)

[02audionoob]

I think your system is only as good as your weakest link.

The real weakest link can sometimes be a challenge to identify. When I got my first CD player, a Pioneer PD-7050, in around 1986, I thought the weakest link in system was the heart of it...my Marantz 2325 receiver. All these years later, the Marantz is still rocking along and in hindsight I consider that CD player to have been the weakest link. I still have it...for nostalgia, I suppose.

[harley .guy07]

Harley, I notice you have mentioned "good cables" in a couple of your replies, it's good to have some one else from that camp here. :)


When I worked as a manager at a local high end shop in my area I did allot of experimenting with cables and found that cables can sometimes make or brake the sound of a system. The thing is its usually the last thing people think about when they are wondering why there cd player don't sound right or there speakers don't image like they thought they wood. The quality of the cables between one component to another is just as important as how well the component itself is built. Allot of people have a hard time spending money on quality cables and interconnects because some people think if a cable is big and has gold or pretty ends its good. There is allot of technology that goes into making a cable that will perform with the quality needed to make good components and speakers work at there best. Its like putting 10 dollar spark plug wires on a lamborgini, The performance will suffer. I have seen people replace components and speakers in systems that if they would take the time and money to get cables worthy of the components they would be happy with the stuff they have. I notice that you have a good list of quality gear and along with that list you have cables that make that gear shine. Good deal.

[Freewillisdead112]

what i ment to say is a want something thats got a vintage look to it thats not all modern.

I was being sarcastic about a 80's cd player!

I was more (a) less meaning, besides the mcintosh cd players i havnt seen anything cd wise with a retro look in a long time.....

And i dont got 2 grand to get a mcintosh!

I think ill get my oppo dvd player and the emotiva cd player. Those I can afford easy, 300 + 150, no issue!

Just dont have 1 or 2 grand right now to throw at some speakers, so ima get what i can for now, and save for something better in the long run.

I want the TOTL tower from axiom! there pretty and everything ive read says there the best bang for ya buck!

[Mr Peabody]

Yes, I became a believer way back. I had a Krell integrated and was using some Audioquest speaker cables that looked like a garden hose, I brought home a pair of Transparent speaker cables and put them in place of the Audioquest and was amazed at the improvement. Especially in the bottom end. Audioquest is a respected brand and I had bought that cable bulk in the 80's, I'm not sure why the big difference. I also wasn't so concerned about why because I was happy with the result :) There are several here on the forums though that claim they can't hear the difference and some just hold that position, just because. Now with my CJ gear the Transparent was alright but the Siltech New Yorker was the stuff. On CJ in comparison the Transparent seemed to have a bit of a glare. But in cables, as in mixing components, one has to find synergy.

I've been bouncing around threads, I think it was here Blue Jeans had come up. BJC is decent stuff. If higher end gear I'd move up to something else though. I find the Blue Jeans LC RCA cables have an outstanding midrange for the price. They do seem a bit rolled off on the highs but the cable has a balanced sound. In fact, I use them in a second system with Adcom gear. I had Transparent in that system before but the room could be better acousticly treated and the Blue Jeans tamed the system a bit at higher volumes.

[02audionoob]

It's not really that anyone is confused. We have a tendency to stray onto other topics around here. Feel free to call everyone to order whenever you desire.:o

[Mr Peabody]

Aw, 02, you know one thing leads to another.......

[harley .guy07]

what i ment to say is a want something thats got a vintage look to it thats not all modern.

I was being sarcastic about a 80's cd player!

I was more (a) less meaning, besides the mcintosh cd players i havnt seen anything cd wise with a retro look in a long time.....

And i dont got 2 grand to get a mcintosh!

I think ill get my oppo dvd player and the emotiva cd player. Those I can afford easy, 300 + 150, no issue!

Just dont have 1 or 2 grand right now to throw at some speakers, so ima get what i can for now, and save for something better in the long run.

I want the TOTL tower from axiom! there pretty and everything ive read says there the best bang for ya buck!

Well I have been looking at Axiom myself. And your right the bang for the buck is good. I have read quite a few reviews on their bookshelf models and the m60 v2 which I am looking very hard at and every time they compare them with speakers usually at least 500 to 1000 dollars above their price tag and sometimes twice their price or over and they always hold their own if not sound better. I have heard them compared to the Paradigm studio 60's and 100's and say that they compare pretty close to them and in some peoples perspective sound as good or better. It all depends on the ears and experience of the people listening to them. But at $990 a pair delivered I am quite impressed about what Ive heard. I know from every review that they sound better than the new Paradigm Monitor series which is at the same price point and I have seen them compared to the usher x 718. The Usher was slightly more precise in the midrange but the Axiom was very very close to it which to anyone who knows Ushers speakers this is saying something for a speaker. And for bass and dynamics they avctually outperformed the Ushers but thats to be expected(the Usher is a stand mount speaker). But to my knowledge the Axiom line is the price per performance speaker to beat and I have always liked a product that you can afford and still be in the quality zone of higher end stuff. Really cool

[Freewillisdead112]

dont feel bad!

I have the brain span of a kindergarden child!

one min i will be reading a book, the next head banging in my living room!

its a never ending thing these days!

and thats why i need a better place and more space to rock!!!

and with more space comes more stereo stuff i dont need (and the woman would love not to hear about or have) but really really want!

If i hear one more distorted voice on movies i will scream!

or tweeter scream cuz someone yells in a movie!

ill blame that on my home depot speaker wire and my sony interconects/dvd player hahaha!