realistic mach one speakers!!!

[Freewillisdead112]

being offered a pair for a great price in okay shape. all drivers work and they are the 4024 ones I do rekin. Will need alot of tlc and a nice soft popout of the one pushed in dust cap. (I hold on to the woofer and use a soft mode vac hose. always works for me!....anyone else do anything less chance of damage?


for a great price are these a good starter for a nice clean up and vintage 2 channel??

any input would be fantastic!

[Mr Peabody]

What do you call a great price? Depending on how you plan to listen I think the Mach One would be a decent option for starters and a lot of fun. I say this if you are looking to Rock, Rap or Pop out. If you are wanting to eke out the last detail for your money and lean toward acoustic and Jazz you can actually buy more detailed bookshelf speakers for a couple hundred bucks. I think for most people though the thrill of double 15's pumping would get the vote.

If you look on Audiogon or Craigslist you can find Adcom separates crazy cheap and it's good stuff. You strap a gfa-545 or 5400, both 125x2, to those Mach's and you will have the time of your life. You can get a preamp for probably under $150.00. If $300.00 or $400.00 is too much look around Thrift stores or Craigslist for "vintage" receivers. If you want some bass get a Kenwood at minimum but preferrable an Onkyo or Harmon Kardon. You'll see a lot of Sony, Pioneer or Technics but it was rare, if at all, any of those had any balls.

[Freewillisdead112]

70 but talking down to 50!

=]

I listen to metal music and some rock. not rap to often.

I have a old pioneer integrated from the 80's that ive had for a while that i cant seem to replace for anything these days (I havent gotten around to buying any high end stuff....but all the sony's, yamahas, pioneers, kenwoods from the 90's up ive bought recently just to see how they worked....went back within a day!)

shows how much i love my little int.

I read a thread that they were great and people were swearing over them!

i mean, for pocket change why not?

go for gold?

[Mr Peabody]

That is a good deal and you'll probably love them. You'd better snag them if the word gets out he is selling them and only for $70.00 I bet it wouldn't take long for them to be gone.

[02audionoob]

The price you're considering is a steal, as long as they're in good condition. If I wanted a vintage setup for rock musc, I'd certainly give some thought to Mach One speakers. Within the realm of what they're designed to do, they're good speakers. And they look cool, too.

[Freewillisdead112]

think he the guy doesnt know there kinda classic. hahah

there a little beat. everything works, and i am jobless/taking a break right now so i could use a little time passer!

plus once again for the money you cant go wrong!

you think they will work okay on my 50x2?

and were these real wood or fake?

[Freewillisdead112]

these are the ones... besides the pushed in dust cap, they look fine to me!!

are these the originals?

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i31.tinypic.com/2lm9ik3.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

[Freewillisdead112]

we are moving into a new place soon and i want a personal listening room for myself!

the woman hates the idea, and HATES wood coloring! but there classic, even the old guy outside my apartment building remembered these!

haha!

I am thinking about rotel, OLD pioneer and mcintosh for my add on's

would that be good for these

i should have them in a couple days!

I tend to download cds (I listen to mostly nothing but underground music, so its recorded bad anyways haha)

and listen to them for days and days (on my horrible jbl monitors!)

hope its a upgrade!

[02audionoob]

think he the guy doesnt know there kinda classic. hahah

there a little beat. everything works, and i am jobless/taking a break right now so i could use a little time passer!

plus once again for the money you cant go wrong!

you think they will work okay on my 50x2?

and were these real wood or fake?

That veneer was real walnut. It seems like Realistic speakers used to have a little sticker on them that said "oiled walnut". The 50 watts will be good enough for many people's purposes. If you like to rock and you find yourself with the opportunity to move up to 75 watts or 100, it would seem like something to consider. I haven't actually heard a pair of Mach One speakers since around 1984, but at the time they didn't seem like big power hogs.

[Freewillisdead112]

ah, so thats what the guy was talking about when he said there was a sticker on them.

Now all i gotta do is the the W.A.F. and im good to go!

I was thinking about upgrading to something more powerful and using the pioneer and my jbls (which are great for a small room) in my new bedroom and getting the oppo dvd player, which could only be better then my sony POS i have now.

I found a local ad for a adcom tuner, preamp, amp and denon cd player for 300. im waiting on the model's but they seem like the 90's ones and have the adcom redline.

It comes with the double sized amp for which i remembered was the 100-125 wpc! ??

could only help!

so for the 50-70 bucks i could have these for i should def grab them?

as long as there better then the cerwin vega ls'12's i had a little while ago, which sounded like death came thru the tweeters.

=]

[02audionoob]

I don't see how you could go wrong with the Mach One speakers at 50 to 70 bucks unless they don't sound good or the cosmetic condition causes a WAF issue.

As for the Adcom gear, I've owned the GFA-535, 545 and 555 amps and the GFP-555 and 565 preamps...as well as a GCD-575 cd player and an SLC-505 passive preamp. It's all good stuff.

[Freewillisdead112]

well thats good!

Im getting to that time in my life, where its time to settle down and get a (new) place to live and a stereo worth calling home.

I always loved vintage (old) stereo stuff cuz the power and midrange effect ive felt to my ears is untouchable from new stuff until you hit a certin cash point, where im okay with, but i am a HORRIBLE saver, so if i cant get in small (cheap) piece by piece, it aint mine!

Are the horns on these going to scare me away?

my jbls have horns but, lets face it there a normal titanium tweeter in a horn shape. so its going to be a change.

will it be insane?

[Mr Peabody]

As 02, I haven't heard the Mach One in many years and my reference is different today but the horns shouldn't be a problem, as I recall the Mach sounded balanced. For your purpose and great value the Adcom is the way to go. I don't think you'd like Rotel or Mac, to me the Rotel makes music seem a bit slower pace and the Mac is warm and pleasant enough but it's going to be expensive and I think the Adcom will give you the punch and power you need. I found the larger 200x2 amps, 555 or 5500, were more smooth on the highs. In the package you are looking at, if it's the 125x2 amp you should still be fine. I think the Adcom & Mach set up will make you a happy camper.

[Freewillisdead112]

well good, i messaged the owners of both and should have them both in a couple days.

now are just plain blue jeans cable going to be fine for wiring the whole shabang?

I figured its not a top of the line system so good cables will do fine, not insane more then my house is worth speaker wire

[02audionoob]

now are just plain blue jeans cable going to be fine for wiring the whole shabang?


Absolutely. Blue Jeans Cable is good quality. If you use them, I would recommend the 12-gauge at $0.52/ft. It's their cheapest cable but it's good wire. It should do nicely for any reasonable length. It would seem logical to step up to the larger wire if you need a run over say...60 to 75 feet, but not critical.

I agree with Mr. Peabody's assessment on the Adcom equipment. My current GFA-545II is brighter than the GFA-555II that I sold several months ago. I adjusted the speaker placement to deal with that. Both amps do seem to be a good fit for the Mach One speakers.

I don't remember that horn really sounding distinctive. I agree that I remember it being a reasonably balanced speaker. I have read comments that it's a little muddy on the low end, but I suspect that's in comparison to higher quality levels...not something that would be a dealbreaker for rock music.

[Freewillisdead112]

good to know. I was going to re run all the stuff i own that came with its own wires with blue jeans cable everything. figured it would at least look nice =]

from what ive read....the 4029 was the muddy one and the 4024 was the clearer of the two. and from what ive read the 24 was the one with the good surrounds. from the pic they look perfect to me.

I just can have anything that sounds like my old cerwins. luckly i bought them for 30 and sold them for 75, so i wasnt stuck with them. but that tweeter man, just gave me head pains.

Im going to ask the guy if i can bring my stuff with me to see how it sounds. i mean if i dont like them should i buy them anyways and fix um up and find someone in audio land to buy them. seems alot of people on AK love them!

??

[Freewillisdead112]

im looking at a onkyo int. and tuner with speakers (that i will never use)

guy wants 100, but its old stuff so im thinking ima like it!

Is there anything i should do to the mach's when i get them?????

[harley .guy07]

im looking at a onkyo int. and tuner with speakers (that i will never use)

guy wants 100, but its old stuff so im thinking ima like it!

Is there anything i should do to the mach's when i get them?????

Maybe fix the dust caps and clean them up in general. Maybe hook them up again just to make sure there are not any problems with them that you might have missed. I have a friend that has a pair of them in storage and he said that one thing he liked about them is that they were reliable. And I agree the horn tweets are generally reliable and can put out a good amount of sound without overload. They look ok in the pictures and will probably provide you with a good starting point for a good solid system.

As far as the onkyo int. amo goes I am not sure which model you are looking at and how old it is but I have worked with Onkyo stuff before and generally speaking it seems to be pretty good stuff. Just remember to look at what you can get else where for the money before buying. good luck.

[Freewillisdead112]

ima cheap person, so i always look for the best deal!

should i suck them out with a vac or use a bent paper clip to pop out the indent?

ima take a look at the crossover when i pick them up.

I think im going to sell my jbls before i pick them up, theres no room for them and i would like to use the extra money in my system to get it where it needs to be!

[harley .guy07]

ima cheap person, so i always look for the best deal!

should i suck them out with a vac or use a bent paper clip to pop out the indent?

ima take a look at the crossover when i pick them up.

I think im going to sell my jbls before i pick them up, theres no room for them and i would like to use the extra money in my system to get it where it needs to be!

I've used a good quality tape in the past to pull out the dust caps. Axiom has a section on their website that will show you how to do this. I would not use paper clips because you will have to put a whole in your dust caps and that might look worse than the dents. I have heard of the vacuum cleaner thing but have never tried it. I would look at Axioms sight and that will give you the direction I think you need to go to fix this problem. As far as the crossovers you could take a look at them to make sure they have not been altered or changed in the past and to check the caps and coils for damage. I had to take the crossover out of my Paradigm monitor 7 just a few months ago and replace a capacitor that blew. Usually if there is a crossover component that is bad you will notice it in the sound of the speakers. Either the tweeter or woofer will have a different sound or you will notice that either are getting frequencies that they shouldn't be getting. But also you could check them out just for a learning experience to see how they are built and why they sound the way they do. Have fun!

[harley .guy07]

I've used a good quality tape in the past to pull out the dust caps. Axiom has a section on their website that will show you how to do this. I would not use paper clips because you will have to put a whole in your dust caps and that might look worse than the dents. I have heard of the vacuum cleaner thing but have never tried it. I would look at Axioms sight and that will give you the direction I think you need to go to fix this problem. As far as the crossovers you could take a look at them to make sure they have not been altered or changed in the past and to check the caps and coils for damage. I had to take the crossover out of my Paradigm monitor 7 just a few months ago and replace a capacitor that blew. Usually if there is a crossover component that is bad you will notice it in the sound of the speakers. Either the tweeter or woofer will have a different sound or you will notice that either are getting frequencies that they shouldn't be getting. But also you could check them out just for a learning experience to see how they are built and why they sound the way they do. Have fun!


I'm sorry the dust cap fix is on you tube and you type in axiom dust cap fix and it should pop up and it has a video that shows you how to fix this problem.

[Mr Peabody]

im looking at a onkyo int. and tuner with speakers (that i will never use)

guy wants 100, but its old stuff so im thinking ima like it!

* Onkyo is generally good stuff, my pick of the mass market brands because their amp sections are true high current and you can hear the difference that makes. Unless it's
100+ watts you are still better off with Adcom though. In addition, more versatility with separates.

Is there anything i should do to the mach's when i get them?????

* Hook them up :)

PS, I think it was on your other thread this thought popped up but Denon CD players have volume control. What they do is provide a variable output and the volume can be adjusted with the remote as well. I haven't heard any of their top of line players but all their units I have heard I thought was a bit bright and not very natural sounding. They still have that old school CD sound to my ears.

[Freewillisdead112]

i look at it this way, i got a good 50-60 years left in my life to blow on stereo stuff

Im just in the working phase to get going on decent stuff, thats not from best buy lol

I dont have the ear that alot of you guys do...yet. Im 19, and was here for the ipod stage and rap music, so my ears are kinda shot anyways =]

I figure, why not buy things, have fun, build a REAL stereo for true listening, and have little other fiddle faddlers to mess with. always something to piss the girlfriend off with!

(main living room system)
I was thinking this, which sounds good to me.
Cambridge audio Int. Amp (not sure which one yet)
Oppo Dvd player (for mp3 and movie playback)
Emotive or cambridge audio cd player (for music)
And b&w/Axiom or Paradigm speakers
blue jeans cable all the way!

sounds like a great first system to me, besides all the sony and panny mini systems of my life!

I remember when i though my sony mini hifi sounded amazing, and all my friends waaaed over it cuz i tweaked it with random things!

boy, ive seen some changes!

thanks yall!

[Mr Peabody]

That looks like a decent system with good sound. However, I don't think it will give you the slam you might be wanting like the Mach/Adcom set up would. Cambridge will have the edge in clarity and detail but it isn't going to rock like the Adcom 545 or 5400. My Dyn 60's are only 86dB or so efficient and my 5400 danced them around the room and the bass was full and powerful. For no more than this system would cost you should try it.
Your Pioneer for pre
the Emo CD player
an Adcom power amp
driving the Mach's
I think when it's party time this set up will have what you need. The Cambridge you can have when you are older :)

Mama, let that boy play some Rock n Roll.

[Freewillisdead112]

That looks like a decent system with good sound. However, I don't think it will give you the slam you might be wanting like the Mach/Adcom set up would. Cambridge will have the edge in clarity and detail but it isn't going to rock like the Adcom 545 or 5400. My Dyn 60's are only 86dB or so efficient and my 5400 danced them around the room and the bass was full and powerful. For no more than this system would cost you should try it.
Your Pioneer for pre
the Emo CD player
an Adcom power amp
driving the Mach's
I think when it's party time this set up will have what you need. The Cambridge you can have when you are older :)

Mama, let that boy play some Rock n Roll.


I like the way you think

I actually was buying the machs for a bedroom two channel system!!
which was thinking about the adcom for.

The mach ones
the emo cd player
maybe forget the dvd player and play mp3's in the living room, seeing as i only listen to them to evaluate cds before i buy them anyways, if there good enough, then they get a good listen =]
and the adcom like you and a couple other kindly chimed in with!

I am trying to pawn my jbls on the guy for his machs, i wont need or want them once i have something a little cooler.

I cant buy all the fancy stuff till my new place is moved into seeing as i live in a less then 800 sq feet apt. sad i know =[

hope he trades me!

the lights are starting to go on my old pioneer, and i dont see it fit to fix it seeing its kind of a low end piece and id like to replace it sooner then later.

any good pre's?

adcom or rotel?

what about the emo pre, it looks really cool!

[Mr Peabody]

Preamps are not Rotels strong point. You can get used Adcom preamps cheap and they are pretty good. The Emo could be the best way to go but I haven't heard one to compare. Many of the Adcom preamps include tuners. Some of the NAD preamps are cheap too but I'm not sure what models are good and what to stay away from.

[Mr Peabody]

Oh, if you have a Craigslist that serves your area throw your used gear up there to see if it sells.

[Freewillisdead112]

craigslist around here doesnt sell very well with stuff that isnt new idk why. the only thingss that sell are marantz and mcintosh i swear!

I can use my pioneer till it dies. plus if i wanted to bi amp something, i could, even with a single amp. my int. doesnt have pre outs, it has headphone rca outs, which i have used before and work quite well!

for some odd reason if i run 2 pairs of 8 ohm speakers on it it looses its pep.

idk why

its a a/b

[Freewillisdead112]

picking them up in a hour!

ill let u guys know how they sound!

=]

[harley .guy07]

picking them up in a hour!

ill let u guys know how they sound!

=]

Don't let those big Mach one horns blow your head off!!!!:8:

[Freewillisdead112]

harley, i see u have a yamaha center. is it any good, i had one before and i thought it was the worst thing ever. it was also a radio shack closeout =]

[harley .guy07]

harley, i see u have a yamaha center. is it any good, i had one before and i thought it was the worst thing ever. it was also a radio shack closeout =]

actually I got it as a christmas gift and thought what the hell I will try it out and wow for the money it is great. It is the ns 555 model and I do believe they still make this speaker. What I really liked about it is that the size is right to fit where I had planned to put a center on my entertainment center. It has a very attractive piano black appearance and more importantly than anything it has two 5" mica filled poly cone midwoofers and a 1" aluminum dome tweeter. Which are built pretty good and the crossover seems to due its job pretty good as well. There are better ones out there but my ex wife got it at a steal for only 150 bucks. It blends very well with my other speakers. I might get laughed at for having this speaker in my system by some of your upper high end guys but this speaker really impresses me for the money.:3:

My bad. my mind slips me once again. It is actually the ns-c444 center channel that I have and yes it is still made.

[harley .guy07]

After thinking about it the ns 555 is one of the tower speake yamaha makes that is in the same series as my center channel.

[harley .guy07]

harley, i see u have a yamaha center. is it any good, i had one before and i thought it was the worst thing ever. it was also a radio shack closeout =]

yeah even at 150 bucks the tweeter even sounds better than allot of other centers out there with metal dome tweeters and the poly filled mica midwoofs are smooth as well

My main question here is how are the Machs. Have you hooked them up yet or are you in the clean up and check out process?:7:

[Mr Peabody]

Well Free Willy hasn't been back so either he is rockin or the dude who had the speakers is an ax murderer.

[harley .guy07]

Well Free Willy hasn't been back so either he is rockin or the dude who had the speakers is an ax murderer.

Well I hope he is in the middle of a Metallica song or something and they sound good enough that he forgot to reply. I know my friend had those Machs and he said they good get plenty loud and looking at the horn they use in the top of those things I could see that!!:4:

[Freewillisdead112]

that just upset me!

the guy owns a toy store or something and had to be inbed by 10, i make by his house by 10:15, got lost and hes one of those who shuts his phone off when going night night!

went to the ghetto for no reason!

the early bird gets the worm, and i guess no snack for me!

ima make him deliver tomarrow =]:18:

[Freewillisdead112]

Well Free Willy hasn't been back so either he is rockin or the dude who had the speakers is an ax murderer.

thanks for stating my name was free willy, it made my night

its actually free will is dead, a lyric from a song!

but it does look like free willy is dead! hahahaha

:7:

[Mr Peabody]

Well, there is a scenario we hadn't considered.

I got your name, I was just being lazy, next time i can spell it out if it makes you happy :) "if it makes you happy" is a lyric from a song too.

[Freewillisdead112]

Well, there is a scenario we hadn't considered.

I got your name, I was just being lazy, next time i can spell it out if it makes you happy :) "if it makes you happy" is a lyric from a song too.

funny funny!

the guy doesnt drive, so i have to return to the ghetto once again!

that could be a movie the return to the ghetto, part 2

if i have to move my speakers to the car one more time i swear!:nonod:

[harley .guy07]

I like the way you think

I actually was buying the machs for a bedroom two channel system!!
which was thinking about the adcom for.

The mach ones
the emo cd player
maybe forget the dvd player and play mp3's in the living room, seeing as i only listen to them to evaluate cds before i buy them anyways, if there good enough, then they get a good listen =]
and the adcom like you and a couple other kindly chimed in with!

I am trying to pawn my jbls on the guy for his machs, i wont need or want them once i have something a little cooler.

I cant buy all the fancy stuff till my new place is moved into seeing as i live in a less then 800 sq feet apt. sad i know =[

hope he trades me!

the lights are starting to go on my old pioneer, and i dont see it fit to fix it seeing its kind of a low end piece and id like to replace it sooner then later.

any good pre's?

adcom or rotel?

what about the emo pre, it looks really cool!

I have worked with several adcom preamps and for the most part they are very good. They did make one model that I hated and I think it was the 450. The thing had to drive in the preamp stage at all. I had to crank the heck out of it just to get moderate volume out of the Adcom amps. The other preamps they made did not have this problem.

The rotel stuff seems to be rated well but I don't have a certain model to go for.

The Emotiva brand seems to be a very popular topic nowadays and I know they are talked about all the time buy Axiom speaker owers as a very good product. Just do your homework and try to find the best unit you ca afford and will do your system good. Just stay away from the gtp 450. Its a tuner preamp. The tuner works well but I think they cut the preamp output down to about half the voltage of the other Adcom preamps. Stay away from it. If someone has a story about this model then great but at the shop I managed we tried 3 of them and all three had this issue so we quit ordering it.

I just took a look and seen some preamps on ebay and other sites from Adcom and you can get one hell of a preamp for little money used. I am not sure the prices on the Emotiva stuff but I just seen an Adcom gfp 555 preamp for a about 140 bucks and I have used this unit and know its a clean preamp. Sure there is better pre's out there but I know your like me and if the price is cheap enough and you know its a quality preamp its a good buy and you can allways upgrade later if you find something better. But at those prices your starting to jump into the higher end for the price of a minisystem. just trying to help

[Freewillisdead112]

I have worked with several adcom preamps and for the most part they are very good. They did make one model that I hated and I think it was the 450. The thing had to drive in the preamp stage at all. I had to crank the heck out of it just to get moderate volume out of the Adcom amps. The other preamps they made did not have this problem.

The rotel stuff seems to be rated well but I don't have a certain model to go for.

The Emotiva brand seems to be a very popular topic nowadays and I know they are talked about all the time buy Axiom speaker owers as a very good product. Just do your homework and try to find the best unit you ca afford and will do your system good. Just stay away from the gtp 450. Its a tuner preamp. The tuner works well but I think they cut the preamp output down to about half the voltage of the other Adcom preamps. Stay away from it. If someone has a story about this model then great but at the shop I managed we tried 3 of them and all three had this issue so we quit ordering it.

i will forsure stay away from it!

i was thinking about the emo pre cuz it has home theatre bypass! which would be cool, if i had a okay av receiver to handle the surrounds. now is there a cheap mono amp out there that would do well for center, but add more fidelity to it over the on board amp?

[harley .guy07]

i will forsure stay away from it!

i was thinking about the emo pre cuz it has home theatre bypass! which would be cool, if i had a okay av receiver to handle the surrounds. now is there a cheap mono amp out there that would do well for center, but add more fidelity to it over the on board amp?

Really the feeling I am getting from you is that music is your primary concern while home theater is a secondary. I run a yamaha htr5560 home theater receiver and its got pre outs to run my Adcom for the mains. It in my opinion makes a very good preamp for my adcom and have no problems matching levels with the center and rear channels working off the yamaha's center and rear power. If you don't have the room for a dedicated music system and dedicated theater system like I don't then incorporate the two the best you can. I am not saying that my yamy would not be beat buy Emo preamp but so far I have been rather surprised at how good the preamp section is in this unit. I even use the inboard DACs in my yamaha for my dvd/cd player and it is clean. now as far as mono amps most of the monoblocks I have come across are rather high end units with quite a bit of power for using two of them to drive some of the low sensitivity high end speakers that are out there. Finding one of these on the cheap would be a find in itself. And I think using one of these just for a center channel speaker would be overkill seeing how most of the solid state monoblocks are usually at least 300 watts if not more. There are some tube amps out there at lower wattage but using one of these just for a center amp would be overkill in my opinion. And it would ad more problems in timbre matching your speakers for theater operation. I know a lot of people that end up seperating their theater systems from there music systems due to the same problem your facing.

[Freewillisdead112]

just asking dumb questions, i grew up in the fake watts age, when the walmart stereo says its 1000 watts and its really like 200 hahha!

so my mind is still set on how many watts a can shove into something, that doesnt exist or isnt possible!

I am planing on doing a 5.1 in the living room.

a quite a thrifty little set up im thinking.

An onkyo/yamaha/pioneer elite older 5.1 receiver (with preouts, just in case) without hdmi.
I figure, i wont have a hdtv until led takes over and the lcds and plasmas get more cheaper so who needed blu ray on a crt haha!
the axiom mid level tower
the axiom center
the axiom surrounds
the mid level sub
the oppo dvd player
blue jeans wire/interconects

axiom offers lay away for people like me that money blows a hole in there pocket when saving needs to be done! =]

that seems like a decently good, budget system.

I can do it all piece by piece, so i wont kill my cash flow!

and i think im getting those speakers tonight, but my two channel system will be the cheaper boat! =] lets wait and see what they sound like on the old faithful!

[harley .guy07]

just asking dumb questions, i grew up in the fake watts age, when the walmart stereo says its 1000 watts and its really like 200 hahha!

so my mind is still set on how many watts a can shove into something, that doesnt exist or isnt possible!

I am planing on doing a 5.1 in the living room.

a quite a thrifty little set up im thinking.

An onkyo/yamaha/pioneer elite older 5.1 receiver (with preouts, just in case) without hdmi.
I figure, i wont have a hdtv until led takes over and the lcds and plasmas get more cheaper so who needed blu ray on a crt haha!
the axiom mid level tower
the axiom center
the axiom surrounds
the mid level sub
the oppo dvd player
blue jeans wire/interconects

axiom offers lay away for people like me that money blows a hole in there pocket when saving needs to be done! =]

that seems like a decently good, budget system.

I can do it all piece by piece, so i wont kill my cash flow!

and i think im getting those speakers tonight, but my two channel system will be the cheaper boat! =] lets wait and see what they sound like on the old faithful!

Well the Axiom system sounds like it could be the ticket. Get the receiver that matches the features and power you need. From what I have read the Axioms are pretty efficient so they will run with a good but not too expensive receiver but as well the axioms could handle and sonically benefit from more power so definitely get a receive that has the option to run a power amp with it as well. But otherwise it sounds like you are on the right path to a good sounding system that might surprise some of the price is no object guys to how close you can come to the higher end stuff if you know how to set it up and using quality interconnects and cables. I know I have.
The two channel system you are talking about sounds like it will be more of a vintage setup that might sound good for rocking out to some metal stuff and you can slowly build it up as well when the pennies come your way. enjoy and let me know how them machs sound. Hey if you stand in front of those big horns you might save money on running your air conditioner.:cornut:

[Freewillisdead112]

Well the Axiom system sounds like it could be the ticket. Get the receiver that matches the features and power you need. From what I have read the Axioms are pretty efficient so they will run with a good but not too expensive receiver but as well the axioms could handle and sonically benefit from more power so definitely get a receive that has the option to run a power amp with it as well. But otherwise it sounds like you are on the right path to a good sounding system that might surprise some of the price is no object guys to how close you can come to the higher end stuff if you know how to set it up and using quality interconnects and cables. I know I have.
The two channel system you are talking about sounds like it will be more of a vintage setup that might sound good for rocking out to some metal stuff and you can slowly build it up as well when the pennies come your way. enjoy and let me know how them machs sound. Hey if you stand in front of those big horns you might save money on running your air conditioner.:cornut:

Thats a good way of saving a few bucks. thats a plus when your young and on your own!

I found a dynaco mark 3 (2) amps and a pas 3 pre amp for 450 bucks!!!!

i know its all tube, but for some odd reason that sounds like a really good price me!

it looks like it really needs to be cleaned up, but all works!

I wont spimp on the receiver, I plan on getting each speaker at a time. so that i can put the most money into everything i want instead of getting what i can afford at the moment. if i get the towers first, i can rock two channel. if i get the center next i can rock 3 channel, then get the surrounds, then the sub. idek if i can get a sub where im moving, i might not even need one honestly. I thought there was almost to much bass from my little jbls and there not exactly quality. and with apartments, subs can get you in alot of trouble.

I live in a apartment with firewalls and concrete between the floors and i got notices every other day for my little 100 watt 8 inch powered sub (radio shack brand, was 60 bucks, said why not =])

so i had to sell it!

i bought a close out system on get this crap out of here sale for like 200, used it for 2 months, sold it for 275....without the surrounds!

gotta get that paper!:9: :9:

[harley .guy07]

Thats a good way of saving a few bucks. thats a plus when your young and on your own!

I found a dynaco mark 3 (2) amps and a pas 3 pre amp for 450 bucks!!!!

i know its all tube, but for some odd reason that sounds like a really good price me!

it looks like it really needs to be cleaned up, but all works!

I wont spimp on the receiver, I plan on getting each speaker at a time. so that i can put the most money into everything i want instead of getting what i can afford at the moment. if i get the towers first, i can rock two channel. if i get the center next i can rock 3 channel, then get the surrounds, then the sub. idek if i can get a sub where im moving, i might not even need one honestly. I thought there was almost to much bass from my little jbls and there not exactly quality. and with apartments, subs can get you in alot of trouble.

I live in a apartment with firewalls and concrete between the floors and i got notices every other day for my little 100 watt 8 inch powered sub (radio shack brand, was 60 bucks, said why not =])

so i had to sell it!

i bought a close out system on get this crap out of here sale for like 200, used it for 2 months, sold it for 275....without the surrounds!

gotta get that paper!:9: :9:

I don't know the worth of the dynaco stuff. I don't keep up with the worth of tube amps. I play guitar and bass and have a tube guitar amp but for my bass rig I use sold state for reliability. Two things that keeps some people away from tube amps is one-the amount of power you can get out of tube are limited(most are 25 to 60 wpc maybe 80 if your lucky). While some tube amp people will say that 50 watts of tube power is worth 200 of solid state. I am not sure I agree but I do know there are some great sounding tube amps out there. two- reliability. It seems that people are always working on them or tinkering with them, changing capacitors,transformers,tubes and while some people enjoy it and make it a hobby within itself I prefer the more reliable solid state stuff of today. I know there are solid state tinkerers out there but usually all they are doing is modifying the power transformers or upping the stiffening capacitors to allow for more dynamic power and are not fixing problems or tracing down noisy components in their circuits.
I know that there are allot of tube guys out there and they will probably want to debate me on this or shoot me which ever comes first but this is my personal preference and I stick by it. When I managed the high end shop years ago we did audition some tube amps from our reps from time to time but decided against them since we live in a smaller area and did not think they would sell well. And for the most part there are not very many audiophiles in the area that are knowledgeable enough to work on their own stuff. Which if you are going to own tube amps you better learn how to work on them or you will pay a fortune every time something brakes or needs modified on them.

Buy your equipment as you can afford it. That way you are not downgrading to get it all at once. What I mean is I have seen people choose a lesser quality receiver or amp just so they can afford to buy it when they bought their speakers. Start out by saving for the main pair of speakers you want, then find a receiver or amp that will push them to their best. As the money comes finish the system with the components you want and don't get in a hurry. every time I have done that I end up with stuff that is not quite what I wanted. You've got time on your side and you so far are picking out good stuff in my opinion. All right I'll shut up know. jam on:6:

[Freewillisdead112]

i just remembered that stuff maybe being worth something.

so back to the ghetto i go part two in a hour to get my new ac unit =]

i swear ima get this and my int amp is going to expload, i swear, it hates me!

if i dont find something new soon ima have to use my old 20x2 (inflated) mini hifi receiver! with its AWSOME dac that idek if exists! haha.

it was funny, before i got my pioneer back i was using it, and thought it actually sounded okay. boy when i hooked my pookie back up did i get suprised! It kinda sucks im getting rid of the jbls, cuz i still havent got to hear them on a good stereo to know what they can really do, but that tweeter man! gotttttttttttaaaaaaa gooooo!

ima have to get spade clips arnt i? i think thats what the machs have in the back!

at least thats a excuse to use to get some quality cables!

[Freewillisdead112]

I got um!

there in next to bad shape, but i can fix them up pretty well im thinking

since its a sealed inclosures its got a nice warm bass.

the highs are some of the best IVE heard in a long time!

For the 80 bucks i paid for the jbls a few months ago, this is the best trade/deal ive ever got!

The seperation of instruments on these speakers is insane, i was expecting tinny highs like my old cerwin vegas, WRONG! I was expecting insane annoying bass, WRONG.

Its the best 80 bucks of my life!

the surrounds are in pretty bad shape, but im will to do a re-foam (there the original 40-4034a models so they have the enhanced foam that doesnt rot, but it gets dence after years of play, and rap in the ghetto!)

there is a couple tears that arnt through the whole surround that just look bad, but dont seem to effect anything.

the midrange is nice and sweet.

I am really hearing things that wernt here before on some of my music, its strange. there songs i listen to almost on a daily bases.

after some staining, a in do time re surround and remaking some grills for them i think ima have a okay looking set of speakers.

will open them up and what not and take pics tomarrow to let yall see what there up to. idk what to look for in crossover ****.

there is a pretty big chunk missing out of the bottom of the right one, idk if thats fixable seeing as ive never fixed anything wood.

but for real, these are the best speakers ive ever owned in my life!

=]

[Mr Peabody]

Glad to hear you like them.

[Freewillisdead112]

Glad to hear you like them.

I cant wait to upgrade my speaker wire and interconnects.

can you buy put on spades? or does a wire have to be terminated with it?

there so clean and relaxing, my jbls just worked to damn hard!

=]:cornut:

[Mr Peabody]

I'm not sure how BJC sells their speaker wire, I believe it's bulk and if you pay extra they will terminate. You can buy terminals/plugs at Radio Shack. Really they aren't necessary though.

[Freewillisdead112]

I'm not sure how BJC sells their speaker wire, I believe it's bulk and if you pay extra they will terminate. You can buy terminals/plugs at Radio Shack. Really they aren't necessary though.

its making me mad trying to the the 12g to fit in there, and i didnt wanna re terminate it to have a clean piece of copper.

but i could add spades myself though?

[harley .guy07]

I got um!

there in next to bad shape, but i can fix them up pretty well im thinking

since its a sealed inclosures its got a nice warm bass.

the highs are some of the best IVE heard in a long time!

For the 80 bucks i paid for the jbls a few months ago, this is the best trade/deal ive ever got!

The seperation of instruments on these speakers is insane, i was expecting tinny highs like my old cerwin vegas, WRONG! I was expecting insane annoying bass, WRONG.

Its the best 80 bucks of my life!

the surrounds are in pretty bad shape, but im will to do a re-foam (there the original 40-4034a models so they have the enhanced foam that doesnt rot, but it gets dence after years of play, and rap in the ghetto!)

there is a couple tears that arnt through the whole surround that just look bad, but dont seem to effect anything.

the midrange is nice and sweet.

I am really hearing things that wernt here before on some of my music, its strange. there songs i listen to almost on a daily bases.

after some staining, a in do time re surround and remaking some grills for them i think ima have a okay looking set of speakers.

will open them up and what not and take pics tomarrow to let yall see what there up to. idk what to look for in crossover ****.

there is a pretty big chunk missing out of the bottom of the right one, idk if thats fixable seeing as ive never fixed anything wood.

but for real, these are the best speakers ive ever owned in my life!

=]

Great deal. They sound like they are solid but need some love. Refoaming the woofers is childs play. If all the drivers are working and sounding fine then the crossovers are probably OK but you might check for good measure since you are going to take the woofers out for refoaming anyway. As for the cabinet fix, I do carpentry work and have built several cabinets. When you put up the pictures make sure to include the broke part of the cabinet and I will try to help tell you how to fix that. Being that these are sealed enclosures it will probably b e important to fix this issue. I am glad you liked the highs i was kind of worried you would think they are bright. Horns are different in that either the design works or it doesn't. I have heard many many horn designs that sound terrible and bright. But there is horn designs out there that work real well and the kicker is normally they are more reliable due to the fact that the tweeter inside that horn does not have to work as hard to put out the same amount of sound as a conventional design due to horn loading. But I am looking forward to seeing the pictures and I am glad you like them. Rock on:cornut:

[Freewillisdead112]

Great deal. They sound like they are solid but need some love. Refoaming the woofers is childs play. If all the drivers are working and sounding fine then the crossovers are probably OK but you might check for good measure since you are going to take the woofers out for refoaming anyway. As for the cabinet fix, I do carpentry work and have built several cabinets. When you put up the pictures make sure to include the broke part of the cabinet and I will try to help tell you how to fix that. Being that these are sealed enclosures it will probably b e important to fix this issue. I am glad you liked the highs i was kind of worried you would think they are bright. Horns are different in that either the design works or it doesn't. I have heard many many horn designs that sound terrible and bright. But there is horn designs out there that work real well and the kicker is normally they are more reliable due to the fact that the tweeter inside that horn does not have to work as hard to put out the same amount of sound as a conventional design due to horn loading. But I am looking forward to seeing the pictures and I am glad you like them. Rock on:cornut:

heres some pics for ya!!!

digys on barrow right now so i had to use my cell

ill put better ones up when i can

[harley .guy07]

heres some pics for ya!!!

digys on barrow right now so i had to use my cell

ill put better ones up when i can

They look like they will need a little hug and some love but nothing major. I would get that cabinet fixed though. You said these are sealed inclosures with no port so it is important that they have no places where the woofers backpressure will leak out and to me it looks like there might be a slight opening where the cabinet is broke off. If this is true then you need to fix this to get the best peformance. the easiest is to sand that area smooth and take some mdf and measure and cut it to fit the triangular space there. You could probably use some industrial strength wood glue to glue the piece in place and sand down until it matches the panel. The only thing is you will be missing the woodgrain vinyl speaker covering there but you could probably stain it or possibly paint it to match the best you can. Other than that you would have to replace that whole cabinet panel and that would probably be a chore. Do the L-pads work cleanly because they are easy to clean up if they have any static when you attenuate them.

As far as you wire, like was said earlier you can pick up spade plugs at the shack or another store that sells speaker wire and connects. I am not sure what kind of wire connectors these speaker used since when they were made they had several types of connectors. Not like the banana plug screw tight you see common today. But I an sure you will figure it out. It also looks like your going to be in the refoam zone too, but there are to many companies to list that make good refoaming kits for those 15's.
How does your amp push them? Most speakers that are designed like them are pretty efficient and don't take mondo power to make them bark so I suspect that this is not a problem. But from what my friend told me they can jam with a couple hundred watts on them. Well cool now you are a vintage speaker rocker. well rock on:7:

I forgot to ask if you seen the video I told you about on how to fix the dust caps on those. I feel its probably the best method.

[Freewillisdead112]

They look like they will need a little hug and some love but nothing major. I would get that cabinet fixed though. You said these are sealed inclosures with no port so it is important that they have no places where the woofers backpressure will leak out and to me it looks like there might be a slight opening where the cabinet is broke off. If this is true then you need to fix this to get the best peformance. the easiest is to sand that area smooth and take some mdf and measure and cut it to fit the triangular space there. You could probably use some industrial strength wood glue to glue the piece in place and sand down until it matches the panel. The only thing is you will be missing the woodgrain vinyl speaker covering there but you could probably stain it or possibly paint it to match the best you can. Other than that you would have to replace that whole cabinet panel and that would probably be a chore. Do the L-pads work cleanly because they are easy to clean up if they have any static when you attenuate them.

As far as you wire, like was said earlier you can pick up spade plugs at the shack or another store that sells speaker wire and connects. I am not sure what kind of wire connectors these speaker used since when they were made they had several types of connectors. Not like the banana plug screw tight you see common today. But I an sure you will figure it out. It also looks like your going to be in the refoam zone too, but there are to many companies to list that make good refoaming kits for those 15's.
How does your amp push them? Most speakers that are designed like them are pretty efficient and don't take mondo power to make them bark so I suspect that this is not a problem. But from what my friend told me they can jam with a couple hundred watts on them. Well cool now you are a vintage speaker rocker. well rock on:7:

I forgot to ask if you seen the video I told you about on how to fix the dust caps on those. I feel its probably the best method.

watched the vid, and on my way to the store to get masking tape in the morning. the sweeper pulled out the tiny one, but its also on the side where i cant reach it.

the l pads are clean without any fuz when moved, i have both at 3db and it sounds great.

ill take better pics of the crack, it isnt through the cab, its just on the front stip and the bottom brace, but looks wise it will need to fixed.

The woofers themselfs look there age, but have no holes through them, so thats a plus.

they have screw/spade speaker posts in the back so ima get spades soon enough. prolley when i order my new interconnects and wire.

since i got them home around 9 i couldnt super rock out, but at low levels its quite relaxing, im actually listening to cds ive never listened to cuz i havent gotten around to, thats how nice there sounding, i forsee no sleep tonight. =]

im happy with my find.

well hope you can help me through this whole thing, i suck at fixing things, no handy man here!

[harley .guy07]

watched the vid, and on my way to the store to get masking tape in the morning. the sweeper pulled out the tiny one, but its also on the side where i cant reach it.

the l pads are clean without any fuz when moved, i have both at 3db and it sounds great.

ill take better pics of the crack, it isnt through the cab, its just on the front stip and the bottom brace, but looks wise it will need to fixed.

The woofers themselfs look there age, but have no holes through them, so thats a plus.

they have screw/spade speaker posts in the back so ima get spades soon enough. prolley when i order my new interconnects and wire.

since i got them home around 9 i couldnt super rock out, but at low levels its quite relaxing, im actually listening to cds ive never listened to cuz i havent gotten around to, thats how nice there sounding, i forsee no sleep tonight. =]

im happy with my find.

well hope you can help me through this whole thing, i suck at fixing things, no handy man here!

I think you have a pretty straight forward job of fixing these. The refoaming is a cakewalk. The cabinet fix if done right could fix this without much effort as well. You just might have to live with no wood veneer in that little area. Maybe after you put the wood piece in there you could put a sticker there that says "vintage rules". Just an idea.:17: let the violins play brotha

[Freewillisdead112]

I think you have a pretty straight forward job of fixing these. The refoaming is a cakewalk. The cabinet fix if done right could fix this without much effort as well. You just might have to live with no wood veneer in that little area. Maybe after you put the wood piece in there you could put a sticker there that says "vintage rules". Just an idea.:17: let the violins play brotha

it dont matter, im staining them anyways, and its just the corner so ill keep it on the right side where it wont be visable anyways

the pic is what i kinda want them to look like. how hard is it to change the dust cap?

is there anything i can put on the woofers that would livin up there color? like a poly paste?

and how does one refoam, i have never before.

thanks for being my speaker go to man, its very helpful!

im quessing im be sanding the scratches out of the wood and then fixing what not, refoaming, dusting.

the whole shabang!

[Freewillisdead112]

Found that the lpad has cracks and a snapped corner, but no big deal. cant see it from afar.

I found the true surround kit for these for 14 each from speaker works.com

i wanna find a bright poly dust cap for them....ill measure them tomarrow.

figured it would look dumn if it had the paper dust cap and the rubber surrounds lol.

the woofers themself still look pretty clean, ive seen better, but prolly could use a clean up.

any way to clean a woofer?

[thekid]

Woofers are probably just dusty so using a soft brush on them usually works. I have heard of some people using a can of compressed air but that can be risky because every now and then some propellent shoots out and I think you want to keep any kind of liquid away from the woofers.

Good luck with the re-foam! It is not too difficult but be patient and you will be rewarded for your efforts. Post some pics when you are done!

[Mr Peabody]

If you don't feel comfortable doing the re-coning there are repair shops that will do it, but not for free :)

[Freewillisdead112]

i should be fine with the refoam. i dont wanna put any un needed money into these, its just not worth it yet. i found a guy on ebay who has a set the the woofers and lpad in good shape. but i think he wants like 80b shipping to send the two woofers an the lpad! no thank you

I stayed up till five in the morning listening last night.

could i upgrade the internal wiring? like if im doing the crossover why now?

could it benifit from a higher gauge or better wire?

[harley .guy07]

i should be fine with the refoam. i dont wanna put any un needed money into these, its just not worth it yet. i found a guy on ebay who has a set the the woofers and lpad in good shape. but i think he wants like 80b shipping to send the two woofers an the lpad! no thank you

I stayed up till five in the morning listening last night.

could i upgrade the internal wiring? like if im doing the crossover why now?

could it benifit from a higher gauge or better wire?

You could if the wire looks small gauge and cheap but I bet the wire is not bad. And if the speakers are balanced sounding and both but out the same volume levels and drivers puting out the frequencies they shoudl the crossovers should be fine but if youve got to take the woofs out for a refoam then I would check them out anyway just to be on the safe side. Now if the internal speaker wires are brittle or anything due to age I would replace. It does sound like you are wanted to keep from putting much money in these and I understand. While you are in the cabinet check the interal dampening material and make sure it has not been dissrupted or gone. You can find replacement dampening stuffing on any speaker building or repair website for cheap and you would be surprised with how well controlled these speakers will sound with a properly damped cabinet. As far as new dest caps they are cheap and use the same kind of glue the surounds use. If you do want to change the look or protect your woofers they do sell a product called "the wet look" which is a high gloss plymer that you buy in pint cans and apply to your paper cone woofers and from what I have read they protect them from moisture and humidity without changes the sound of your woofers at all. These are little things that you could due on the cheap to improve these speakers. If you life them as well as you have told us there is nothing wrong with spending pennies to make them last a little longer and you will have less problems latter. Jam on

[Freewillisdead112]

im in the mist of trying to balance the horn to my ears. at low levels its nice and punchy but the loader the more stress they seem to have. is this a power issue? they just seem like there hinting for power thats not there!

ima open them up and take pics later today and see what were working with!

i mean i dont mind spending if its going make a sound improvement!

I hope i can save them, there are quite a few deep scratches...is there stuff you can put in them?

[harley .guy07]

Those machs that you showed earlier look allot like my friend jims machs he's got in storage. They are in good shape as well and if he wasn't such a pack rat he might part with them but I dought it. He would probably want way to much for them anyway to make it worth your while but the machs were very popular in their day and if you look hard enough you might be able to find used quality parts for them and if you like them well enough you and the price was right you could buy some backup parts for them for the future as well.

[Freewillisdead112]

the guy on ebay is willing to part his out, his cabs are just as bad but his woofers and lpad are perfect(besides from the age to the surrounds like mine) his are the 4024s to so, ima see the whole amount he wants for everything.

my woofers look better in the light, but there still quite dirty!

if its over 100 im not interested!

[harley .guy07]

im in the mist of trying to balance the horn to my ears. at low levels its nice and punchy but the loader the more stress they seem to have. is this a power issue? they just seem like there hinting for power thats not there!

ima open them up and take pics later today and see what were working with!

i mean i dont mind spending if its going make a sound improvement!

I hope i can save them, there are quite a few deep scratches...is there stuff you can put in them?

It would take some time but it the veneer if damaged to bad can be taken off which on these i believe the veneer is vinyl not real wood so it might not be that bad to take off. The same companies that sell replacement drivers and such do offer different vinyls and such to over speaker cabinets and that would be an improvement. But it would take time and some dollars to do so. I

I am not sure the power you are putting to these but it might be a power issue since solid state amplifiers due get harsh when the amp starts to clip and horns have a tendency to reveal this harshness more that some other designs. Like I was saying earlier that these speakers while being efficient will also need a good amount of clean unclipped power to reach the higher volumes that they can reach. If you want them to be load and clean then more power might be a good idea.

[Freewillisdead112]

It would take some time but it the veneer if damaged to bad can be taken off which on these i believe the veneer is vinyl not real wood so it might not be that bad to take off. The same companies that sell replacement drivers and such do offer different vinyls and such to over speaker cabinets and that would be an improvement. But it would take time and some dollars to do so. I

I am not sure the power you are putting to these but it might be a power issue since solid state amplifiers due get harsh when the amp starts to clip and horns have a tendency to reveal this harshness more that some other designs. Like I was saying earlier that these speakers while being efficient will also need a good amount of clean unclipped power to reach the higher volumes that they can reach. If you want them to be load and clean then more power might be a good idea.

Huh, i read that they were real wood veneer. like five different places. its only on the top really, and they will be on stands, so not really a issue!

take a qtip fill the holes wit the finish and call it a day!

the cam should be on its way home soon, so illl show u exactly what im working with!

50wpc, pioneer sa-730.

it sounds nice and sweet at low levels, but once i try and give her a crank, shes not 2 happy:nonod:

[harley .guy07]

Huh, i read that they were real wood veneer. like five different places. its only on the top really, and they will be on stands, so not really a issue!

take a qtip fill the holes wit the finish and call it a day!

the cam should be on its way home soon, so illl show u exactly what im working with!

50wpc, pioneer sa-730.

it sounds nice and sweet at low levels, but once i try and give her a crank, shes not 2 happy:nonod:

You might ne right. These speakers might have a real wood veneer. I never really looked at them close enough to know. And sometimes without looking close the vinyl veneer can really play a trick on you. If they are real wood then that changed the way you would replace it and the cost by a mile. I would just try to fix them the best you can for now seeing that it will cost a bit to replace the real wood veneer.

50 wpc is enough power for normal litening on these speakers but I would say that at least 100 watts would be needed to really make them sound their best at higher volumes. I think my friend Jim played with different amps and finally ended up with around 200 wpc powering them. Remeber you will almost always hurt a speaker with less power at clipping then too much power that is clean. Voice coils on speakers hate clipping and can easily be damaged by amplifier distortion. I would say if you really want these speakers to sound their best and have the ability to crank on request then I would put your money toward a good integrated or seperates that can produce the power that will drive those big dogs to their loud sonic heaven. Just my opinion. I would suggest fixing the surounds and such before such an amp is put to these because they will get more of a workout as far a driver movement when the more powerful and cleaner amp is put to them.
I will look forward to seeing the pics of your progress.

[harley .guy07]

I just read some stuff that was said about the dynaco tube amps and it sounds like if this stuff is in good shape that might be a good price. I'm glad you found a few people that know about the Dynaco stuff to get some insight. And with you being interested in modifying your stuff it might not be a bod purchase for you. To own tube gear you have to have a certain level of passion for fixing and modifying these things and learning how to. If you like working on stuff then this could be the way to go. I cant say how they would sound through the machs but heck if you don't like it then you could clean up the dynaco's and maybe profit off of them or just hold on to them to possibly drive a speaker that would more benefit from the tube sound from these amps.

[Freewillisdead112]

the refoam will be the first to do. ima order the kits here in a day or so. ill get sand paper and start cleaning edges on the cabs!

they sound fantastic at low levels. even with my horrible set up. my 8ft sony interconnect! 9.99 at target! =]

and my $.53 per foot home depot 12g wire. I do have a pretty nice belkin surge strip....that i dont use lol

would it be overkill to get the 10g wire from bluejeans?

[Freewillisdead112]

I just read some stuff that was said about the dynaco tube amps and it sounds like if this stuff is in good shape that might be a good price. I'm glad you found a few people that know about the Dynaco stuff to get some insight. And with you being interested in modifying your stuff it might not be a bod purchase for you. To own tube gear you have to have a certain level of passion for fixing and modifying these things and learning how to. If you like working on stuff then this could be the way to go. I cant say how they would sound through the machs but heck if you don't like it then you could clean up the dynaco's and maybe profit off of them or just hold on to them to possibly drive a speaker that would more benefit from the tube sound from these amps.

ehh, i passed on them seeing as im not the handy man! and i refuse to pay 3425363563 dollars to have someone do things for me! speaker fixing is pretty easy so i think, im sure building is a butthole but, thats why they make something called.....buy pre made speakers =]

[harley .guy07]

ehh, i passed on them seeing as im not the handy man! and i refuse to pay 3425363563 dollars to have someone do things for me! speaker fixing is pretty easy so i think, im sure building is a butthole but, thats why they make something called.....buy pre made speakers =]

Yeah most of the people who talked about the dynaco stuff had a real passion for tube amps and you could tell that they have worked on and modified several of them. Thats what I was saying earlier is that you almost have to have a good working knowledge of electrical circuits to own and modify these things. I studied electronics in school and have built and worked on several components and it took me a while of learning to be able to do the things that these people are doing to keep there tube gear in tip top shape and to make them perform at their best potential.

To own this kind of gear without this knowledge it would be very expensive to take this stuff to a shop for the kind or work that these people are doing themselves.

I have known several audiophiles in the past that are into tube gear and also being a musician I know people that use tube guitar and bass heads(amps) and almost all of them study and have knowledge when it comes to tube amp design and modifications.

Its kind of a hobby within a hobby.

[Freewillisdead112]

Yeah most of the people who talked about the dynaco stuff had a real passion for tube amps and you could tell that they have worked on and modified several of them. Thats what I was saying earlier is that you almost have to have a good working knowledge of electrical circuits to own and modify these things. I studied electronics in school and have built and worked on several components and it took me a while of learning to be able to do the things that these people are doing to keep there tube gear in tip top shape and to make them perform at their best potential.

To own this kind of gear without this knowledge it would be very expensive to take this stuff to a shop for the kind or work that these people are doing themselves.

I have known several audiophiles in the past that are into tube gear and also being a musician I know people that use tube guitar and bass heads(amps) and almost all of them study and have knowledge when it comes to tube amp design and modifications.

Its kind of a hobby within a hobby.

sounds expensive!

this is my first experience with a sealed cab, its def got a different sound to the bass, its not a bad sound. but i still seem to blame things on the lack of power. my amp has tights that cover the watts being pushed ive never seen it so high on the volume i have it at, its strange! its like it almost wants the whole 50 at like 3 out of 10! i normally didnt hit 50 till around 4 1/2

[Freewillisdead112]

im thinking from the sound of these ima want a int or seperates setup thats a little on the warm side. would marantz be a good pick?

[harley .guy07]

sounds expensive!

this is my first experience with a sealed cab, its def got a different sound to the bass, its not a bad sound. but i still seem to blame things on the lack of power. my amp has tights that cover the watts being pushed ive never seen it so high on the volume i have it at, its strange! its like it almost wants the whole 50 at like 3 out of 10! i normally didnt hit 50 till around 4 1/2

I don't know the exact specs on the machs. They might not be as sensitive as I once thought being that they are a acoustic suspension design. Most acoustic suspension speakers are not as sensitive as their ported cab comparisons so you just might have to have more power for these things to really shine. It sounds like your 50 wpc pioneer just might not have the balls to make them perform at high volumes. I did read that they are capable of high power handling so it sure would not hurt to get something with a little more power. I would say for sure that what your are hearing at high volumes is amp clipping and not a problem with the speakers.

[harley .guy07]

im thinking from the sound of these ima want a int or seperates setup thats a little on the warm side. would marantz be a good pick?

Marantz products for the most part are of good quality and have heard good and bad things depending on the model in question. But for the most part a Marantz int. or seperates usually rate high and have good clean power. As far as the warm sound that you are looking for I have not worked with Marantz enough to know about a given models sound. Someone else might know that one.

I would look around for a used poduct that fits the power that you want then find someone who has worked with said product to find out how the unit will work with your speakers. I have worked with Yamaha, Denon, Adcom and countless others but Marantz was never a brand that I worked with that much. I know that as far as integrated amps Yamaha and Denon both have products that I think would fill the bill and used could be had at a decent price. I have heard some people say that some of yamaha amps are bright but I have heard a lot of there receivers and integrated amps and I never heard this brightness that these few people have said.

I have used the yamaha int. amps on several horn driven Klipsch and Vega's and I always had good results.

[Freewillisdead112]

model numbers??

[harley .guy07]

model numbers??

If memory serves me correctly the Yamaha ax 570 was the one that most people chose. It had good power and 100 wpc at 8 ohms and was stable to 2 ohms whether the specs say that or not we tested it ourselves an it could handle it. Its dynamic power is very good for the money. Better than any AV receiver in the under 1000 dollar class. And probably better than ones more expensive for the most part. It has all the options one would need but stays very simple in its form. There are better int. amps out there but at the price this amp can be had for(I have seen it for 150 o less), it is a very good powerhouse to be had. We sold a ton of them when I managed the audio shop because of the solid build and clean sound. And memory serves me right we only had one come back and it was due to an upgrade to the z1 receiver not because the unit failed. Yamaha products are very reliable and we hardly had anything returned to the store for service. But that was years ago and I can not speak for the Newest yamaha stuff.

[Freewillisdead112]

If memory serves me correctly the Yamaha ax 570 was the one that most people chose. It had good power and 100 wpc at 8 ohms and was stable to 2 ohms whether the specs say that or not we tested it ourselves an it could handle it. Its dynamic power is very good for the money. Better than any AV receiver in the under 1000 dollar class. And probably better than ones more expensive for the most part. It has all the options one would need but stays very simple in its form. There are better int. amps out there but at the price this amp can be had for(I have seen it for 150 o less), it is a very good powerhouse to be had. We sold a ton of them when I managed the audio shop because of the solid build and clean sound. And memory serves me right we only had one come back and it was due to an upgrade to the z1 receiver not because the unit failed. Yamaha products are very reliable and we hardly had anything returned to the store for service. But that was years ago and I can not speak for the Newest yamaha stuff.

i found a 570 for 110 on ebay...freeshipping

yeah think this little amps gotta go, i turned the loudness off and turned the bass to 75% and i cant even hear toms in music its lost all bass definition. it cleaned up the tweet and midrange alot, but took all the power from the woofer!

[Freewillisdead112]

this is a list of my options as of right now on CL

Marantz SR-82 MK II (a/v) 100 bucks obo

this lot for 140 obo
•Craig Pioneer Stereo 8 Track (Vintage and It Works)
•Pioneer FM Quartz Locked Stereo Receiver, 290 Watts, SX 3700 (Works but contacts on volume need repair)
•Panasonic XBS Stereo/Radio Cassette Player (Works)
•Kenwood 5 Disc CD Player (Works)
•Panasonic Speakers SBAK 100 (Works)
•KLH 9362, 80 Watt Satellite Speakers (Works)
•Subwoofer with 4 Satellite Speakers (Works)


Onkyo AR-V401
& Rotel RCD-965BX CD player for 225

anything good in here?

[harley .guy07]

this is a list of my options as of right now on CL

Marantz SR-82 MK II (a/v) 100 bucks obo

this lot for 140 obo
•Craig Pioneer Stereo 8 Track (Vintage and It Works)
•Pioneer FM Quartz Locked Stereo Receiver, 290 Watts, SX 3700 (Works but contacts on volume need repair)
•Panasonic XBS Stereo/Radio Cassette Player (Works)
•Kenwood 5 Disc CD Player (Works)
•Panasonic Speakers SBAK 100 (Works)
•KLH 9362, 80 Watt Satellite Speakers (Works)
•Subwoofer with 4 Satellite Speakers (Works)


Onkyo AR-V401
& Rotel RCD-965BX CD player for 225

anything good in here?

I have tried to find any info on this stuff and am having a hard time finding anything. I would stick to looking harder at the okyo-rotel, or the marantz sr-82. They seem to be a better bet to me. As far as i they are worth that much I don't know and could not find any specs on either of the amps. I would hit the amp forum and put them both up their and see if anyone has owned any of these and see what their experiences were. Me myself I would look at the Onkyo,rotel the closest since I have worked with both brands and while they both have bad bad apples in their lines they have made some very good products as well. Just make sure what ever you choose it will have the balls to push your machs much harder than your old Pioneer can. Or you will not be happy and be on the prowl for different stuff all over again.

[harley .guy07]

I will say the price on that 570 seems to be a pretty good price and I know that this unit will power the machs way better than your pioneer. I had a guy buy one from me and he ran four older vega d-9's and he said it powered them really good. I know the vega'a can handle very high power but he said that the 570 powered them great. I never actually went to his house and heard it for myself but I do know that the 570 is 2 ohm stable and has good dynamic power for this the price range it was in.

[Freewillisdead112]

sounds good. ill look into the yammy! the guy with the onkyo/rotel says he powered some dynaudio's with um and they sounded good! i do rekin dynaudio are good speakers right? and arnt most onkyos high current powered?

[Freewillisdead112]

i can buy the piece that goes around the woofers right? that covers the the metal? I wanna replace that while im refoaming, its old and ugly!

Im going to sand the inside corners and stain them while im doing the rest of the speaker. or i might put black vinal where that it, it might look nice! that would cost like 2 to five bucks for the vinal i think, but im bad at gluing things lol.

should i rent or borrow a sander or hand sand them?

[Mr Peabody]

I've owned and handled some Yamaha and my impressions are that they have a bass response that lacks detail, the response is loose and lacks form , the mids are better than their average competitor with a more natural tone, and I have not noticed them being bright either. I had an old Yamaha integrated that made me lose a lot of respect for Yamaha. I think it may have been an AX-7 maybe. It had a silver face and large ugly yellow and green lights on front which I think were buttons. What urked me is one of those lights went out and the amp quit working. Luckily it was bought used from a store that gave a 30 day warranty and I was still covered. The tech who fixed it said it was just one of the lights need replaced. What kind of insanity would cause some one to build an amp so that when a light went out the amp wouldn't play?

When you are ready to jump at an amp those Adcom can't hardly be beat at the price they sell for used. They hold true to their power rating and have a solid bottom end for Rock.

Harley, you have experience with Rotel, in comparison to other brands do you find their presentation a bit sluggish? They sound pleasant no doubt about that but when I put music on their systems I'm familiar with it makes the band sound like they are playing after being up days without sleep. The presentation just lacks energy or snap.

[harley .guy07]

sounds good. ill look into the yammy! the guy with the onkyo/rotel says he powered some dynaudio's with um and they sounded good! i do rekin dynaudio are good speakers right? and arnt most onkyos high current powered?

If he powered some dynaudios with it it must have some balls because most dynaudio speakers are pretty hard to drive good. They are very good speakers. Dynaudio used to only make drivers for other speaker manufacturers but decided after years of doing that for other people that they could make a speaker line and with the experience in building drivers they have made quite a reputation as full line speakers builders. They are quite good.

[Mr Peabody]

If that Rotel CDP isn't that many years old it would be a pretty good deal. Not familiar with that model Onkyo but as Harley noted if it drove Dyn's it's got some juice. I had a little Onkyo 48 watt receiver and I was really impressed how it drove my Kappa 7's which were only 89dB efficient and a sealed cabinet with 12's.

[JoeE SP9]

Thats a good way of saving a few bucks. thats a plus when your young and on your own!

I found a dynaco mark 3 (2) amps and a pas 3 pre amp for 450 bucks!!!!

i know its all tube, but for some odd reason that sounds like a really good price me!

it looks like it really needs to be cleaned up, but all works!

I wont spimp on the receiver, I plan on getting each speaker at a time. so that i can put the most money into everything i want instead of getting what i can afford at the moment. if i get the towers first, i can rock two channel. if i get the center next i can rock 3 channel, then get the surrounds, then the sub. idek if i can get a sub where im moving, i might not even need one honestly. I thought there was almost to much bass from my little jbls and there not exactly quality. and with apartments, subs can get you in alot of trouble.

I live in a apartment with firewalls and concrete between the floors and i got notices every other day for my little 100 watt 8 inch powered sub (radio shack brand, was 60 bucks, said why not =])

so i had to sell it!

i bought a close out system on get this crap out of here sale for like 200, used it for 2 months, sold it for 275....without the surrounds!

gotta get that paper!:9: :9:
It's more than likely that the Dynaco gear will need extensive work to perform to spec. Gear that old always needs to have any electrolytic capacitors replaced. The controls on the PAS-3 will need thorough cleaning at minimum. For the price you quoted the 3 pieces should be in very good to excellent condition. $350 to $375 is a more reasonable price.
I'm quite familiar with Dynaco gear. The factory was 3 blocks from my house when it was in Philadelphia. I've built most of their kits and modified others. The MK-III's I use to drive my Acoustats have been extensively modified. They have new input driver boards I designed and built, soft start solid state fully regulated power supplies and other goodies. The only thing left from the original MK-III's is the transformers. I've even changed the case work. The PAS-3 is still quite popular with a lot of vintage enthusiasts.
IOW: Old Dyna gear can be good but it probably needs work.

[harley .guy07]

I've owned and handled some Yamaha and my impressions are that they have a bass response that lacks detail, the response is loose and lacks form , the mids are better than their average competitor with a more natural tone, and I have not noticed them being bright either. I had an old Yamaha integrated that made me lose a lot of respect for Yamaha. I think it may have been an AX-7 maybe. It had a silver face and large ugly yellow and green lights on front which I think were buttons. What urked me is one of those lights went out and the amp quit working. Luckily it was bought used from a store that gave a 30 day warranty and I was still covered. The tech who fixed it said it was just one of the lights need replaced. What kind of insanity would cause some one to build an amp so that when a light went out the amp wouldn't play?

When you are ready to jump at an amp those Adcom can't hardly be beat at the price they sell for used. They hold true to their power rating and have a solid bottom end for Rock.

Harley, you have experience with Rotel, in comparison to other brands do you find their presentation a bit sluggish? They sound pleasant no doubt about that but when I put music on their systems I'm familiar with it makes the band sound like they are playing after being up days without sleep. The presentation just lacks energy or snap.


Thats weird that your yamaha did that Mr. Peabody. I sold them for years and we did not have very many returns on their products. Especially their integrated amps. I sold quite a few of them and I think I only had one return and it was not due to it going bad it was to upgrade.

I love my Adcom and would put it against a Rotel in a heartbeat. Some of rotels stuff is good but every time we lined up a Adcom and Rotel for comparison the Adcom always came out on top. Its just a more well rounded component. If I were looking for an amp and wanted the best amp for the money on the used market Adcom would definitely be the one I would pick. My 545 mk2 is about 14 years old now and sounds as good now as the day I bought it. And everything I have thought about replacing it with just did not do any better and sometimes worse. You have to spend quite a bit of money to do much better than an adcom. I have looked inside mine to clean it several times and am impressed by how well its built. minimal jumper wires and well designed circuits and a very stout capacitor bank for only being rated at 100 wpc. But that shows in their dynamic power capabilities. I've even thought about buying another one just like it to bi amp my speakers just to see the improvement. My only question is how to make my yamaha receiver with only one set of main pre outs send enough of a signal to two seperate amps without lowering the preamp voltage to each amp to the point where I would have to crank the hell out of my yamaha to get good voltage. If you have an idea let me know because it is something I've thought about.

[harley .guy07]

i can buy the piece that goes around the woofers right? that covers the the metal? I wanna replace that while im refoaming, its old and ugly!

Im going to sand the inside corners and stain them while im doing the rest of the speaker. or i might put black vinal where that it, it might look nice! that would cost like 2 to five bucks for the vinal i think, but im bad at gluing things lol.

should i rent or borrow a sander or hand sand them?

yes you can find a replacement for the padded ring aound them. Probably in the same place you found the refoam kit.

If you can get your hands on a orbital sander and just take your time and be careful not to gouge them.

The vinyl idea might work but vinyl shows any surface imperfection that is under it so I would make sure everything is smooth on the cabs before doing so.

[JoeE SP9]

harley .guy07 (http://forums.audioreview.com/member.php?u=283864):
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.

[harley .guy07]

harley .guy07 (http://forums.audioreview.com/member.php?u=283864):
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.

Its been a thought. I even thought about doing away with the internal Paradigm crossovers all together and use an electronic crossover for the monitor 7's I don't think it will cause any problems and it will sure sound better bi amping. Its been something used in car audio for ever but it seems never really caught hold in the home audio area. Plus electronic crossovers will give me the extra drive to power both amps and the crossovers being before the power stage will be cleaner and won't rob any power.

[harley .guy07]

harley .guy07 (http://forums.audioreview.com/member.php?u=283864):
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.

I actually looked at the Behringer unit and it looks good but the impedance on xlr inputs does not match that of rca cables. You can get impedance matching xlr to rca adapters but they are not cheap and I am afraid that changing impedance's going into and out of the crossover will degrade my original signal from my Yamaha. I think if I wanted to do a electronic crossover I would be better to get a ac to dc generator and power a good quality car audio electronic crossover that actually usses rca jacks and has gain controls.

[harley .guy07]

harley .guy07 (http://forums.audioreview.com/member.php?u=283864):
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.

I think for right now I am going to stay with a single amp. I am thinking of upgrading my main speakers so I will see where I am at after I get that done. I am also thinking of getting into the vinyl thing so I am looking at turntables and preamps. New or Vintage really does not matter to me as long as it sounds good, looks good and can be modified to sound even better later. I think these are more important objectives right now than trying to bi amp speakers that I am thinking about retiring to rear speaker duty anyway.

[JoeE SP9]

Typically the impedance on single ended line level inputs is around 20 to 25K Ohms. Balanced connections are usually twice that because true balanced connections feed differential inputs. Output impedance on single ended connections is usually in the 100 Ohm or so area, balanced usually being twice that.
This means that in practice the only problem that may occur is that most balanced inputs are looking for a signal with greater amplitude. This is not really a problem because the Behringer has input level controls. The differing input impedance's between balanced and single ended are not an issue.
As for the cables, the only reason shielding is used on single ended cables is for RFI rejection. There is no spec for impedance on interconnects. It is not the same as RG type cables which have a spec such as 50 Ohm for RG-58 or 75 Ohm for RG-59 The Kimber Silver Streak interconnects I use have no shielding at all. If RFI is not a problem ordinary lamp cord could be used for interconnects.
BTW: The main reason for balanced connections is because hum and noise in cables tends to be picked up by the plus and minus lines equally. Balanced inputs are differential in operation. IE: They amplify the difference between the two signals. Hum and noise being common to both it gets rejected. The spec for this is known as CMRR. Common Mode Rejection Ratio.
All this is to say your concerns about impedance mismatching are unfounded.

[Mr Peabody]

The Yamaha integrated I spoke of was from the 70's and when I bought it I looked it up and retail was around $699.00. I agree that Yamaha is reliable. The beef I had was the fact that the amp would quit if the bulb burnt on that light. Back in the day of Pro Logic I had a Yamaha processor with built in 80x3 watt amps and never had a bit of trouble with it. I eventually sold it and moved into 5.1.

[JoeE SP9]

I think for right now I am going to stay with a single amp. I am thinking of upgrading my main speakers so I will see where I am at after I get that done. I am also thinking of getting into the vinyl thing so I am looking at turntables and preamps. New or Vintage really does not matter to me as long as it sounds good, looks good and can be modified to sound even better later. I think these are more important objectives right now than trying to bi amp speakers that I am thinking about retiring to rear speaker duty anyway.
While I was typing my last post you posted again. Vinyl is my primary source. With 3.5K LP's and more being bought it will be my primary source for some time to come.

Is there anything you have in mind for a TT and preamp? If you need only a phono preamp The Pro-Ject Phono Box II accommodates MC and MM cartridges. At $159 it's very reasonably priced. Of course the term "reasonable" is relative.

SPDIF and video connections are specified for 75 Ohm connections/cables. In actual practice with short lengths (<1 Meter) of wire, 16 gauge zip cord will work.

[harley .guy07]

Typically the impedance on single ended line level inputs is around 20 to 25K Ohms. Balanced connections are usually twice that because true balanced connections feed differential inputs. Output impedance on single ended connections is usually in the 100 Ohm or so area, balanced usually being twice that.
This means that in practice the only problem that may occur is that most balanced inputs are looking for a signal with greater amplitude. This is not really a problem because the Behringer has input level controls. The differing input impedance's between balanced and single ended are not an issue.
As for the cables, the only reason shielding is used on single ended cables is for RFI rejection. There is no spec for impedance on interconnects. It is not the same as RG type cables which have a spec such as 50 Ohm for RG-58 or 75 Ohm for RG-59 The Kimber Silver Streak interconnects I use have no shielding at all. If RFI is not a problem ordinary lamp cord could be used for interconnects.
BTW: The main reason for balanced connections is because hum and noise in cables tends to be picked up by the plus and minus lines equally. Balanced inputs are differential in operation. IE: They amplify the difference between the two signals. Hum and noise being common to both it gets rejected. The spec for this is known as CMRR. Common Mode Rejection Ratio.
All this is to say your concerns about impedance mismatching are unfounded.

Rather well explained. I did not know if this would be a problem or not. Parts express does sell xlr to rca adapters and I might do this at some time being that I could get another 545 mk2 used for a rather cheap price and since i already have one it would be a great thing to have 2. Then the only question would be is to use one for the left woofers and tweets and one for the right. Or use on for the lows and one for the highs of both speakers. I guess its just a matter of opinion.

[harley .guy07]

While I was typing my last post you posted again. Vinyl is my primary source. With 3.5K LP's and more being bought it will be my primary source for some time to come.

Is there anything you have in mind for a TT and preamp? If you need only a phono preamp The Pro-Ject Phono Box II accommodates MC and MM cartridges. At $159 it's very reasonably priced. Of course the term "reasonable" is relative.

SPDIF and video connections are specified for 75 Ohm connections/cables. In actual practice with short lengths (<1 Meter) of wire, 16 gauge zip cord will work.

I am not sure. I have looked at the vintage used stuff but don't know the product models to look for. Have looked at the pro-jest debut 3 and the rega p series. I know I want something that is good and also can be modified later. As for as preamps are concerned I Have looked at the phono box 2 or the bellari. How does the tcc stuff rate, they are very inexpensive so they probably have a shortcoming of some sort.

I am just looking for help from people who know vinyl and have used several types and know there strengths and weaknesses.

[Freewillisdead112]

so heres the pics!

=]

http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy84/freewillisdead112/

follow the link to my photobucket!

[harley .guy07]

so heres the pics!

=]

http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy84/freewillisdead112/

follow the link to my photobucket!

Well they look pretty good or at least look like they could be saved from audio hell. Just a little luv and elbow grease.

[harley .guy07]

joeE sp9 I noticed that you have a adcom 545 in your lineup. What are you powering with it? I am just wondering since I have one myself.

[Freewillisdead112]

well thats always good to know. im excited to get this to tip top let me tell u.

[Freewillisdead112]

i think what you called things around the speakers is wrong, i cant find anything by that name anywhere! could u link me to something?

[JoeE SP9]

joeE sp9 I noticed that you have a adcom 545 in your lineup. What are you powering with it? I am just wondering since I have one myself.
I use it for my Acoustat Model One's. They are the rear speakers in my system. My rears are bi-amped with a Hafler DH-200 driving the SPW-1 woofer that came with my Spectra 22's. I use I Paradigm X-30 set at 110Hz with the Adcom up top and the Hafler on the low end. Both of my Haflers have been extensively modified. The Adcom is stock except for WBT binding posts. Another GFA-545 is in my bedroom system driving a Pair of Minimus 7's and an old DBX sub using the DBX's passive crossover. That system has an Adcom GTP-450 running the show. The bedroom stuff is completely stock.

As for phono preamps I would buy the Bellari with tubes.
I have no knowledge of TCC.

[02audionoob]

I am not sure. I have looked at the vintage used stuff but don't know the product models to look for. Have looked at the pro-jest debut 3 and the rega p series. I know I want something that is good and also can be modified later. As for as preamps are concerned I Have looked at the phono box 2 or the bellari. How does the tcc stuff rate, they are very inexpensive so they probably have a shortcoming of some sort.

I am just looking for help from people who know vinyl and have used several types and know there strengths and weaknesses.

I have a Bellari VP129 and a Pro-Ject Tube Box. I've been very please with both. I've also had a vintage PS Audio phono preamp and was fairly pleased with it, too. I've read good reviews about the Phono Box. If that was my budget range, it's probably what I'd buy. I read some good comments about the TCC in this forum once. You could probably find them with the search engine.

[Mr Peabody]

02AN, out of the 3 phono stages which do you prefer and any sound advantage with one over the other? I wonder if Bellari sounds good or if it's popular because it's one of the cheapest with tubes. I haven't heard one but I wonder if the bass detail would be there or if it would be a bluming bass response.

Not meaning to hijack, a friend of mine bought a Chinese tube amp for like $150.00 new, it was a brand I've never heard of and like 25x2. I thought this thing was going to really be offensive sounding. I've heard better but I was pretty impressed for $150.00. I think it only has two inputs. It's hard to gauge the sound but I'd say it sounds better than most entry to mid receivers.

[02audionoob]

02AN, out of the 3 phono stages which do you prefer and any sound advantage with one over the other? I wonder if Bellari sounds good or if it's popular because it's one of the cheapest with tubes. I haven't heard one but I wonder if the bass detail would be there or if it would be a bluming bass response.


I really like the Bellari but everything I like about it is better with the Tube Box. The Bellari has decent bass and the Tube Box's bass is deeper and tighter. The Bellari has surprising soundstaging and the Tube Box is better by a long shot. The Bellari has a nice lifelike midrange and again the Tube Box is better. I paid $100 for the Bellari, so it's terrific for what I paid, but my favorite between the two is easily the Tube Box.

As for the PS Audio preamp...it just wasn't as exciting and enjoyable to listen to. I bought it in the hopes of having lower noise than the phono stage in my Adcom GFP-565 and it succeeded there. But it isn't on par with what PS Audio is making now and it doesn't hang with the Tube Box. I suppose it was not a step down from the GFP-565, and it was quieter.

Given that I've seen good but not spectacular reviews of the Tube Box, I sometimes wonder how good the ones with the giant-killer reputations must be. I figure I could sell both the Bellari and the Tube Box for more than I paid, so I might upgrade with the proceeds from both and just put my linear turntable back on the phono input of my Marantz receiver. I'm often tempted when I see the PS Audio GCPH on Audiogon, but haven't pulled the trigger because I figure I've got some synergy going.

[Mr Peabody]

I have a gtp-450 that works well. The specs show it only has a 1v output which sounds low but it drove the gfa-5400 great and the 5500 will split your eardrum. If it was the 450 you all had an issue with maybe there was a bad batch or if using other brand amps something else that didn't match spec.

[JoeE SP9]

I too have a GTP-450. It's driving a GFA-545 in my bedroom system. I've never noticed the 450's output to be low. If anything, the combination does a more than adequate job of driving a TRS Minimus 7, passive 15" DBX sub-woofer combination. Had this not come up on this thread I would have paid no attention to the the 1V output level. Knowing it is just not significant the way I'm using it.

[Freewillisdead112]

My thread got hi-jacked by adcom lovers =]

I would sure love to get me a good old adcom system with some huge B&W towers! That would be a happy day for me!

[Mr Peabody]

Save up and keep your eye on Audiogon. It may be awhile before I make up my mind but I will probably be selling my Adcom gear and use my Krell integrated in that spot.