Speaker Wire Question Please!

[Cigarjohn]

I am going to wire up my amp to my old JBL Decade L36 speakers and wanting to use 12 gauge speaker wire.

My question is the difference between solid and stranded copper wire. I know the solid wire is hard to work with but will it work and produce great sound or is stranded wire better?

Also, I've seen advertisements for stranded copper wire that were coated with pure silver. Would this be better to use than plain stranded copper?

The amp I will be using is a McIntosh MC 2205.

Thanks!

Peace!

[markw]

Stranded is fine. The sonic benefits of solid wire are grossly overstated and debatable, plus it's a female dog to work with to boot.

Just be sure you can fit the ends into the amplifier and speaker terminals. You may nee dto put pin jacks on the ends, at least for the speaker.

[Cigarjohn]

Thank you. How about silver coated, copper wire over conventional copper wire.

http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KASA12PRL

[02audionoob]

It's hard to beat 12-gauge stranded copper wire for a speaker cable (available at Home Depot), but you could look into Litz wire if you want to try an exotic solution.

[Cigarjohn]

Thanks! I think I'll stick with stranded. Now I see copper wire that's silver coated. Better, worse?

http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KASA12PRL

[02audionoob]

The silver-coated cable would have the potential to provide great conductivity on the surface of the wires, where current tends to distribute itself, but that's beyond my understanding of the science. Litz wire is designed to address this same phenomenon, known as the skin effect. These are not issues that produce a difference you could likely hear, though.

[drmorgan]

Thanks! I think I'll stick with stranded. Now I see copper wire that's silver coated. Better, worse?

http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KASA12PRL

12ga. seems rather large unless you're running a very long distance from that amp.

That price on the silver seems cheap, so perhaps they've just put a tiny amount on and unlike zip that's twisted an UL it may not have the 93% copper content assured from the specifications for both romex and UL zip.

So called 'speaker wire' iusually have a clear jacket that matches a bit better. Thing is I don't find a standard for 'speaker wire' as for actual copper content. So.. I'd let a digital ohms meter make the decision for me by comparing the same length of zip with the speaker wire. 12ga. solid will be slightly more resistive than stranded 12 ga..

What are you looking at for the Ohms of the Speakers? If they're 8 ohms you are probably outbound at about 40 volts, 16, 70 some. 12ga. is really large for 40/70.

I used a 2205 to put 150 watts into three pair of speakers on #14 with runs up to 75' and was fine.

[02audionoob]

In audio, there's an acknowledged difference between fine and good. I think I'd go maybe half as far with 14-gauge wire as the above post describes.

[drmorgan]

In audio, there's an acknowledged difference between fine and good. I think I'd go maybe half as far with 14-gauge wire as the above post describes.
I agree... penny wise...

Question... did you that price on the silver ... seems too low... personally dislike getting wire that is not rated... Thought that I read in some of these pages or threads that a specialty house (Blue something?) offers wire that's graded for speakers..??

[02audionoob]

I had a smilar thought...the silver price seems low. http://www.bluejeanscable.com is indeed a good source for decent speaker cable.

[JoeE SP9]

DH Labs www.silversonic.com (http://www.silversonic.com) makes some very reasonably priced "hi-end" cables I use 4 six foot lengths of Q-10 Signature which uses silver plated wires. My system IC's are Kimber Silver Streak (one of the conductors is Silver).The price at the other site seems a bit low for silver plated copper.

IMO silver wires have a sound that is different from Copper.

I know there are some who don't believe in cable and interconnect differences. Find out for your self. If you hear differences OK. If you don't hear differences, you can save some money and by Mogami cables and interconnects. They're actually quite good and very reasonably (to almost everyone) priced. Most of their sales are in the professional and studio areas. Since they have no pretensions of "high end ness" you won't have to endure someone saying you wasted your money. Although, it's really none of their business how and what you spend your money on..

BTW: A pair of 6 foot Q-10 Signature's is about $250.

[frenchmon]

DH Labs www.silversonic.com (http://www.silversonic.com) makes some very reasonably priced "hi-end" cables I use 4 six foot lengths of Q-10 Signature which uses silver plated wires. My system IC's are Kimber Silver Streak (one of the conductors is Silver).The price at the other site seems a bit low for silver plated copper.

IMO silver wires have a sound that is different from Copper.

I know there are some who don't believe in cable and interconnect differences. Find out for your self. If you hear differences OK. If you don't hear differences, you can save some money and by Mogami cables and interconnects. They're actually quite good and very reasonably (to almost everyone) priced. Most of their sales are in the professional and studio areas. Since they have no pretensions of "high end ness" you won't have to endure someone saying you wasted your money. Although, it's really none of their business how and what you spend your money on..

BTW: A pair of 6 foot Q-10 Signature's is about $250.

I've used silver wire and I to hear the difference between it and copper. The silver seems to give more separation and air to the sound. It also give a lighter bottom end to the sound. Silver seems to be a good fit with darker or warmer gear giving it a more brighter sound. But if the gear is already on the brighter side, then I believe its best to go with a good copper cable, unless one can purchase gold cables.

[hermanv]

What is often missing from these speaker wire size discussions is damping factor. While losses are small in 16 gauge wire for example it's effect on damping factor can be quite extreme.

Here is how it works, damping is caused because of the permanent magnets in speakers. As the cone moves a small voltage is generated, if this voltage matches the drive voltage of the amp all is well. If it differs, it means the cone is trying to move in a way not dictated by the amplifier. The damping factor allows the amplifier to "fight" this incorrect movement.

Damping factor is the ratio of amplifier output impedance to speaker impedance, for example a damping factor of 100 (common) means that an amplifier has an output impedance of 80 milliohms for an 8 ohm speaker. 80 milliohms is 0.08 Ohms a number your average DVM won't measure. So if we add .08 Ohms of speaker wire (round trip) the damping factor is cut in half.

16 gauge wire happens to be around 80 milliohms for 16 feet (8 feet out and back) so 16 gauge wire will limit damping factor in a 8 ohm system with 8 foot cables.

The sonic results are woolier bass, some boomimg and less bass definition.

[drmorgan]

What is often missing from these speaker wire size discussions is damping factor. While losses are small in 16 gauge wire for example it's effect on damping factor can be quite extreme.

Here is how it works, damping is caused because of the permanent magnets in speakers. As the cone moves a small voltage is generated, if this voltage matches the drive voltage of the amp all is well. If it differs, it means the cone is trying to move in a way not dictated by the amplifier. The damping factor allows the amplifier to "fight" this incorrect movement.

Damping factor is the ratio of amplifier output impedance to speaker impedance, for example a damping factor of 100 (common) means that an amplifier has an output impedance of 80 milliohms for an 8 ohm speaker. 80 milliohms is 0.08 Ohms a number your average DVM won't measure. So if we add .08 Ohms of speaker wire (round trip) the damping factor is cut in half.

16 gauge wire happens to be around 80 milliohms for 16 feet (8 feet out and back) so 16 gauge wire will limit damping factor in a 8 ohm system with 8 foot cables.

The sonic results are woolier bass, some boomimg and less bass definition.

We don't have the distance and my recollection of the 2205 is vague as to the inherent damping factor of it.

We'd need the distance and the power handling of the speakers plus the damping factor of that amplifier to offer a better opinion... No???

The science states that if a speaker has a nominal 5-8 ohm resistance, the amp has a 20 or greater damping factor the fault for 'ringing' will be the speaker design.

I'd suggest if the distance is less than 40' (20x2) the Home Depot or Radio Shack multi strand #14 or #12 copper will serve your needs.

Floyd E. Toole wrote an article entitled; Damping, Damping Factor and Damn Nonsense. He presumed that the resistance in the wire run would be no more than .1 Ohms, that other resistance in the speaker and crossover and so on would add more and the amp could have a 20-1000 damping factor and still blame the speaker for failure to damp itslelf. His work is readily available on the net.

[hermanv]

As an EE, I learned and applied a lot of math to various audio questions and concluded that much of what was being said was nonsense.

As an audiophile, I learned to listen, for me at least my ears outvote my math skills.

A reproduction chain consists of an endless set of compromises about cost, size and functionality. I find that minimizing errors at every affordable point produces worthwhile results for me.

Each person must determine to their own satisfaction where the line between acceptable, unacceptable and silly lies.

When I read papers by experts, I usually use them as a guide as to where I need to listen closely. Your mileage may vary :) :)