Dynaudio Contour S5.4 and B&W 803D

[atomicAdam]

http://web5.twitpic.com/img/19293875-537fe8c8747ef98be6a2fea0d8ecc770.4a6a3019-scaled.jpg

I went to Pro Home Systems in Walnut Creek, CA today to check out some speakers. Kevin helped me out. I only listened really to two speakers, the Dynaudio Contour S5.4 and the B&W 803D.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1156&sc=hf
http://dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/contour/contour_s_5_4.php

I had four CDs to demo -
Miles Davis - A Tribute to Jack Johnson (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jzftxqygld0e)
Thelonious Monk - It's Monk's Time (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:fxftxqegldhe)
PolyGram Records Compilation - Verve Compact Jazz - Louis Armstrong (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:fzfyxqegldse)
Massive Attack - Mezzanine (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:axfexqujldde)


The Dynaudio S5.4 were very good. Full bass and a ton of detail. I sat fairly close, about 10ft, they had a great thump in the chest and sounded good on almost everything. Monk's piano on track 2 - Memories of you - was full and detailed up and down the keys. Put my Monitor Audio RS6 speakers in their place. I really enjoyed them and learned more about what I am currently missing from my speakers at home. I need better detail and fuller, clearer mids and lows.

Funny enough, on the Louis Armstrong disc, the 1st track - I gotta Right to Sing the Blues - when the back up horns kicked in the Dynaudio S5.4 really handled it in a way that didn't sit well with me. The recording has some issues, either compression or distortion or just too much going on for some speakers to handle well. It came out like a high pitched crackle, distorted noise. Very obvious, very out of place and that made me sad - but good to hear. I know I can't buy these.

The B&W 803D's on the other hand seemed to either hide that noise better, or just handle what is going on. When those back up horns kicked in on the right side, the distortion could be heard, but in a much more friendly manner.

Now, with the Mile's album, my jaw dropped. It was almost like being at a live event. The different bass interplay from the drums, the bass, the crazy guitar was fantastic. I wanted to stay and listen to the whole album. Probably should have. The horn was so clear. I really learned something today. The B&W 803D are amazing. And only what...9k a pair...that is do able right? Right?

But the problem with the 803D's is that they made Massive Attack sound thin and just not worth it. Kevin said the 803D are definitely for jazz and classical. He prefers rock and says that doesn't work on the B&W speakers. I don't know if that is the case, but for triphop/electronica... it is a definite yes.

So where to go from here. I obviously would love to have two different speakers for different types of music but I need an all in one do it all well speaker. Though I listen to more jazz at home, but not all the time.

Suggested to me the Meridian DSP3100/5200/5500 - but I believe the DSP3100 are $15000 a pair, but of course don't have to buy pre and amp.

Still have a ways to go and more to hear. And I'll be back at Pro Home Systems in a month to hear the Meridian speakers.

[LeRoy]

atomic adam, thanks for sharing your speaker impressions. You may or may not have already auditioned speakers from Reference 3A but I have auditioned the Reference 3 A Episode speakers at $5500/pr and I was floored by how real they sounded with excellent recordings and associated gear. Check these out if you have a R3A dealer in your area. Happy listening..

[Mr Peabody]

AA, was the 5.4 and 803 played on the same system?

[atomicAdam]

Good question Mr Peabody.

No.

The Dynaudio were connected to a $20k 9 year old Meridian (blu-ray? player I think) and Boulder 500watt mono amps.

Funny thing about all that. The Meridian had some issues playing a brand new CD and the Boulder amps 'start to sound good after 2 hours'. I definitely was not sold on those pieces of equipment.

I forgot to ask what the 803D were connected too, but I believe the player was a Pioneer Elite blu-ray player.

[Mr Peabody]

Remember, Blu-ray has not been around for 9 years. Boulder is supposed to be the shtuff. Like benchmark of audio from what I hear. I haven't been that fortunate to hear any yet. My personal opinion is Dynaudio even lower models out perform B&W. To be fair I've heard Dyn's with several good amps but have only heard B&W with ARC, Classe, Rotel or Denon. I know people like B&W and I've always wanted to hear a pair strapped to a Krell amp to see if my opinion might improve. Actually the lower level B&W's don't sound too bad with Denon's receivers.

Adam, did you win the lottery? It seems I remember you looking for a preamp or something a while back and couldn't afford much money now you are looking at some pretty expensive speakers :) Of course, looking doesn't hurt anything and can be a lot of fun.

[saymir]

I was able to compare B&W 803d and Monitor audio pl300 side by side connected to nad master series.B&W sounded warmer and a little bit dark .MA pl300 sounstage was better and more dynamic ant transperent sounding speaker with higs according to seller similar to electrostatic's-i like that.After this sesion i went to other shop listen Dynaudio countor s5.4 and confidence c4. They were connected to Trigon(german) monoblocs.Maybe not the best match,because i noticed that highs on S5.4 sounded a little bit harsh,when on c4 sounded very sweet.Very flat sounding speakers from Dynaudio and togther sweet(c4).I think they need a lot of time to play in,because could not hear decent soundstage .I recommend listen Monitor audio PL300.

[Mr Peabody]

If the B&W showed the Master series to be dark sounding that is an attribute for B&W because the NAD Master series are dark sounding. I actually like that Master series sound a lot. It seems the M series may not be the last word in detail but I find their sound seductive.

Dynaudio right out of the box requires many hours of break in but I'd hope a dealer would know this and have that done before putting them on display. Something was obviously wrong because unless the electronics were harsh or had poor sound stage, the Dyn's certainly wouldn't have been that way. I've heard several models of Contour with good amps and they have always been stellar. My sound stage using Contour has been excellent with both Krell, Arcam, Linn and Conrad Johnson. I am not doubting your word but want you to know what you heard is not typical.

I also feel when shopping for a speaker a person would want one that is honest to the electronics, not coloring the signal. For instance, if NAD is dark you want the speaker to show that.

[atomicAdam]

Remember, Blu-ray has not been around for 9 years.

Adam, did you win the lottery?

Yeah - That blu-ray comment and age thing didn't seem to square with me either. Maybe I heard him wrong or it was just too early in the morning still.

I didn't win the lottery but I am starting to do research for my next, and hopefully final, upgrade. Probably wont buy anything for another year+. Which will give me plenty of time to listen and find out what I want.

[Mr Peabody]

What is in your system now?

[atomicAdam]

in sig -

What I am looking for would be something with at least 200 or 250mm woofers. But I really just starting my research - There is so much to hear before I buy.

On my list to hear:
Salk Sound HT3
Audio Note AN-E
B&W 801D
Meridian DSP3100/5200
Monitor Audio Platinum 300

[atomicAdam]

I wouldn't consider a different power cord a mod, as it's detachable, I would consider it a tweak. Going in and replacing caps or parts would be mods.


(huh?)

[Ajani]

Adam, I'd suggest you also audition:

Monitor Audio Platinum 300 (or wait for the slightly smaller 200 to be released)...
Revel Performa F52

Just my opinion, but your approach to your next and possibly final speaker upgrade is the best way to do it: take your time and audition as many high end speakers as possible (and avoid incremental upgrades - such as from $1K Towers to $1.5K Towers - just go right to the top of your budget next step and save all the cash you'd have wasted on in between purchases and sales)...

[atomicAdam]

Ajani -

Thanks for the suggestion - those actually caught my eye when scanning monitor audio's site the other day.

I agree with you - at this point another half upgrade would be silly. I've got a pretty good set up right now that makes me happy, but I am aware of the faults. Especially now after hearing much better speakers. Taking my time to research (there should be a word for listening research) save up and just do it all at once.

I've really got to find what I am looking for in a speaker though. At this point I'm still not sure. In all honesty though, the B&W 801D seem like a great choice if they don't suffer the same issue as the 803D. The 15" woofer is....well...damn near ideal. I remember having my JBL dual 15" bass speakers and a JBL 400Watt head back in my 'i'm in a band' days. The detail was fantastic, and the power even better.

[Worf101]

Well, I just had a very revealing run in with the 803's slightly bigger brother. Our latest album was just digitally mastered on set of 802's with a Velodyne 12-inch sub. The guy does soundtracks (King Kong etc..) so I guess he needs the sub for that kind of stuff. To make a long story short. I left his studio with a serious case of B&W lust. I've been looking for 803's ever since but I don't think I can really justify the purchase. You you lucky dog, you're gonna git my dream speaker first. Ah'm a hatin' on ya!!!! LOL. One vote for Mr. Bowers and Wilkens.

Da Worfster

[Mr Peabody]

Worf, keep your eye on Audiogon. Or, if you think you can live with a Nautilus vs the Diamond, there should be some used deals around on those for less money.

[saymir]

If the B&W showed the Master series to be dark sounding that is an attribute for B&W because the NAD Master series are dark sounding. I actually like that Master series sound a lot. It seems the M series may not be the last word in detail but I find their sound seductive.

Dynaudio right out of the box requires many hours of break in but I'd hope a dealer would know this and have that done before putting them on display. Something was obviously wrong because unless the electronics were harsh or had poor sound stage, the Dyn's certainly wouldn't have been that way. I've heard several models of Contour with good amps and they have always been stellar. My sound stage using Contour has been excellent with both Krell, Arcam, Linn and Conrad Johnson. I am not doubting your word but want you to know what you heard is not typical.

I also feel when shopping for a speaker a person would want one that is honest to the electronics, not coloring the signal. For instance, if NAD is dark you want the speaker to show that. I just wondering how B&W 803D and Krell kav500i will sound together.Abaut dynaudio,I could not properly evaluate for several reason.1-the listening room at dealer,was too small for s5.4 and c4. 2 the wall behind the speakers was form of ellipsis,that made bass sound horrible turning volume up.

[Mr Peabody]

Do you have a 500i? The Krell and Dynaudio are excellent together. Unfortunately, I've not heard B&W with Krell. I wish I had so I could see if my opinion of them holds true. I personally prefer Dynaudio to B&W by a long shot.

If you do have a 500i you should check with Krell to see if it was included in a recent recall. I found out mine was. Something about the wrong or inferior fuses used on the rails. This could cause damage or fire if the circumstances was right. I've used mine for years without any problem but when I get the kit from Krell I will definitely make the change.

[saymir]

Thanks for information abaut krell.I contacted them and see.I have a chance to purchase used pair of Dynaudio Confidence C5,and B&W 803D.I am very curious if Krell kav500i is sufficent,capable of driving c5.Everybody who owns c5 states that they are low sencitivity and need a lot of power to drive them.The Krell says that this amp is perfect for speakers which require constant power.

[RGA]

Your list is a good one. I would definitely try to add Tannoy to that list as well - in particular the Kensington SE at about $8k. If you found a store selling Audio Note - then you should be able to find one selling Tannoy prestige series speakers.

You already know my preference here is for the AN E (In corners to generate the pressure of instruments is ideal) - but I would advise you to make sure to listen for long periods of time to all of these and try not to focus on aspects such as bass and treble but on timbre and tone - and on wide selections of recordings. What I have found on B&W at least to my ear is that they have "impressive" drivers that don't necessarily integrate very well.

On many of them they have issues at the top of their passbands with their kevlar or FST drivers. It's a heightened sense of what is commonly referred to as detail but I believe to be something else. But plenty of people like em fine - still I would give many a listens before I took the plunge. The Tannoy advantage is that dual concentrics tend to sound extremely coherent like one driver and many are very easy to drive allowing more amplifier choices - especially of the low watt variety. Dynaudio Contour for me is more slam than finesse - kind of a bullying speaker. Nothing at all wrong with them - but I would pick them for people looking at speakers for home theater or pulling double duty as more home theater and still good for music compromises. They also don't have the efficiency for lower powered amp choices and I find them a little too expensive for what you get. PMC and ATC are an alternative for that kind of sound as well.

[Mr Peabody]

I totally disagree with your assessment of the Contour, RGA. Dynaudio does offer, or did, the "t" series which does double duty for HT and music, these are what I have and they are excellent for music and sound great with every amp I've driven them with from Krell to Conrad Johnson. The regular Contour series is great for music with capable electronics. And far from being any bully or in anyone's face. In fact, Ajani criticizes them because he likes a hotter higher frequency.

The 500i is basically a kav-250a & 250p in one chasis, it should push the Confidence fine, it's a true 250x2. The Confidence are speaker master pieces. I've heard nothing come as close to a live band before as some C4's driven by Krell's 25s CD/preamp and 250 monoblocks. The room size and everything must have had perfect synergy that night, the presentation was just like sitting in front of the band, just a phenominal sound stage, focused images with the dynamic impact of live music. I've heard more expensive but not a better presentation than that night.

[RGA]

You're free to disagree. Your system is after all the antithesis of mine and what I find to be "good" for music playback. My comment about bullying was not about bright - I don't find Dynaudio to be bright which puts them ahead of many.

I don't find speakers like the Dynaudio however to sound natural and high power solid state amps from the likes of Krell even less so - matching them together is my nightmare and perhaps your bliss. This is no knock - that's why there are many choices - out there. Dynaudio is well made - has huge fans - reputable name. Just not my taste. Though for what it's worth I like them more than comparable B&W's.

[Pat D]

$9000 range? I wouldn't even think of going that high without considering Paradigm Signature and PSB Synchrony. I definitely suggest auditioning them. The Synchrony One needs a fairly hefty amp and from the specs an Onkyo M-282 (125 watts into 6 ohms) look sort of marginal for it if you play loud. But you could get a Bryston 4B or something and still save money.

Your amplifier should do OK for a Paradigm Signature S8 or S6.

[saymir]

I totally disagree with your assessment of the Contour, RGA. Dynaudio does offer, or did, the "t" series which does double duty for HT and music, these are what I have and they are excellent for music and sound great with every amp I've driven them with from Krell to Conrad Johnson. The regular Contour series is great for music with capable electronics. And far from being any bully or in anyone's face. In fact, Ajani criticizes them because he likes a hotter higher frequency.

The 500i is basically a kav-250a & 250p in one chasis, it should push the Confidence fine, it's a true 250x2. The Confidence are speaker master pieces. I've heard nothing come as close to a live band before as some C4's driven by Krell's 25s CD/preamp and 250 monoblocks. The room size and everything must have had perfect synergy that night, the presentation was just like sitting in front of the band, just a phenominal sound stage, focused images with the dynamic impact of live music. I've heard more expensive but not a better presentation than that night.

Actually krell kav500i really takes complete control over Confidence c1 and pushes very well.Just as you described.it amazing how speakers can affect sound of amp.Contour and confidence line are in diffrent leagues.C1 and Krell kav500i sings.Powerful,Dynamic,attacking,punchy sound with amazing wide soundstaging

[Poultrygeist]

My son-in-law has a pair of Meridian DSPs that belonged to Emmitt Smith. They sound different from my home-brew OB's but not better.

[RGA]

Actually krell kav500i really takes complete control over Confidence c1 and pushes very well.Just as you described.it amazing how speakers can affect sound of amp.Contour and confidence line are in diffrent leagues.C1 and Krell kav500i sings.Powerful,Dynamic,attacking,punchy sound with amazing wide soundstaging

Why resurrect a 2+ year old thread?

I find it interesting that the dealer I usually buy from carries B&W, Dynaudio and Meridian loudspeakers as well as some of the others mentioned.

[saymir]

Why resurrect a 2+ year old thread?

I find it interesting that the dealer I usually buy from carries B&W, Dynaudio and Meridian loudspeakers as well as some of the others mentioned.

Just wanted share some experience ...