Entry level H/T help

[loudfamily]

I'm about to build my first H/T, and I've been reading the forums and doing other research. I'm looking for a receiver and speakers to replace my 18-year-old stereo receiver and bargain-bin KDS speakers.
Thru your help, I've focused in on Denon 1803 refurb for ~$350 and Hsu VT-12 Satellites with the VTF-2 for ~$650 getting me right at $1000. (I have 32" CRT and DVD player, so only shopping receiver and speakers) I'd rather not spend $1000, but I want to get something for my money.

My question is, is it worth spending $1000 to put a system like this together, or should I just buy an Onkyo(or something like it) H/T in a box for $500-600?

I went to Audio Concepts here in Houston over the weekend, and a very helpful guy talked to me for a long time about all the higher end options - B&G, NAD etc., for down the road, but said for now, I should just get H/T in a box if my budget is under $1000.

I am clearly not an audiophile, but I love music and movies very much, and I'm really wanting good volume and quality from the Sub (Hence my interest in Hsu), and good articulation of the 5.1 surround to really flesh out movies like Lord of the Rings. My goal is clean loud guitar rock(The Who, Green Day), and booming movie performance, and I fear that H/T in a box isn't going to deliver this.

I did listen to the Onkyo in-a-box and another brand at Fry's, and they sounded competent standing there in the store, but there wasn't anything better to compare them to, and at Audio Concepts, everything was much better than I can afford, so I'm unable to listen-test my proposed system. Since I can't really test my Denon/Hsu against an H/T in a box, I don't know if my ears will hear the extra money.

Any suggestions/confirmations on this would be wonderfully helpful.

[markw]

Your Denon/Hsu system will be better than any HTIB he can sell you.

As far as his "down the road" scenario, in either case you will wind up with "older" stuff but with your Denon/Hsu stuff, it'll be better quality.

He simply wants to sell you a HTIB. Probably a bigger spiff.

There are other options out there besides what you mentioned, particularly speakers, but that's another post. What you found isn't too awfully shabby, believe me.

[loudfamily]

Trust your feelings, Luke...I appreciate the advice

In defense of Audio Concepts, they don't sell H/T in a box, he recommended Sam's Club or Cosco - he knew he wasn't going to make a sale once I told him my budget, but still spent almost an hour showing me equipment - a very nice guy.

[Bryan]

Only thing I'd do is hold out on the receiver a little longer until you get your speakers. (The aforementioned HSU combo is probably one of the best ways to go, IMO.) The new receiver models are coming out so you may be able to get an excellent new one for $350.

[markw]

After all, we are supposed to help each other here, aren't we?

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=3136

[dph1965]

just a few weeks past. "Upgraded" to 6.1 system on a budget. Still putting VT-12 system to test (haven't had much time this past week) and I actually opted down to the STF-2 sub (squeezing every penny I could out of my budget) Went with Onkyo TX-SR501 (originally eyeing the 601- but squeezing again) and ended up spending only $900 where I was originally looking at $1200. Could have probably saved a little more if I would have bought the Onkyo on line. The $300 left over is going towards DVDs/CDs!
So far, this system is great for my usage - about 75%HT - 25% "background music", but I occassionaly like to crank up the music, and that was my first test. More than pleased with what I heard! I will soon be posting a "full review" on this system, just waiting for this weekend off to put it through a thorough test.
Hope you enjoy whatever you go with! But, IMO, the HSU system is a great start.

[r3dline]

As far as his "down the road" scenario, in either case you will wind up with "older" stuff but with your Denon/Hsu stuff, it'll be better quality.

Are you saying that his Denon/Hsu satellites would be of better quality than the NAD and B&G gear he mentioned? Because that was the gear he was referring to as, "down the road," wasn't it? Or am I confused. Because there's not much "low quality" about NAD and B&G...especially in comparison with Denon. They're probably around the same boat as far as build quality...if NAD doesn't rank higher than the Denon. I can buy all the Denon I want at the local Circuit City. Can't get NAD there, though...have to go to a specialty shop...

[markw]

Are you saying that his Denon/Hsu satellites would be of better quality than the NAD and B&G gear he mentioned? Because that was the gear he was referring to as, "down the road," wasn't it? Or am I confused. Because there's not much "low quality" about NAD and B&G...especially in comparison with Denon. They're probably around the same boat as far as build quality...if NAD doesn't rank higher than the Denon. I can buy all the Denon I want at the local Circuit City. Can't get NAD there, though...have to go to a specialty shop...
What post did you read? Here's the text of my original post in it's entirety.



Your Denon/Hsu system will be better than any HTIB he can sell you.

As far as his "down the road" scenario, in either case you will wind up with "older" stuff but with your Denon/Hsu stuff, it'll be better quality.

He simply wants to sell you a HTIB. Probably a bigger spiff.

There are other options out there besides what you mentioned, particularly speakers, but that's another post. What you found isn't too awfully shabby, believe me.
Now, if you don't mind a few questions...

Please point out where I ever said that the Denon/HSU was a "better" system to the NAD / B and W system. ...or is that just something you assumed?

Likewise, where did I imply that they are "low quality"? Or is this another assumption on your part?

Now, I do remember saying it's a "better" system than that $800 HTIB recommended by tghe salesman, don't you agree?

In any case, let's go more on this troublesome "better" adjective you seem to like to misuse so much. How do you intend it be applied here?

"better" in the sense of more prestigious names? NAD and B and W nail that one hands down.

"better" in the sense of the bang for the buck or overall perfomance? Dunno, both NAD and B and W tend to be somewhat on the flat side of the PODR*.

Please clarify. In any case, I'd say that his $1000 was a significant improvement over the recommeded $800 HTIB, wouldn't you?

Afrter all, that was the main thrust of my post. With all your keen insight I fail to see how you could overlook this. Too busy trying to put words in my mouth?

Now, on to my other feelings on this. Everyone determines their own PODR but, IMNSHO, I'd say that his "starter" system is pretty darn close to that point. Extremely good bang for the buck and to realize a little improvement he would need to spend substantially more, particularly if music is a main concern.

For HT I'd say NAD is a bit pricey for what it offers in comparison to the competition. And I may be in a minority, but I'm not overly impressed by B and W. Given my druthers, I'd opt for practically any other speakers on the market, particularly for HT.

...but then again, it's all a preference, isn't it?

FWIW, here’s my system(s) http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/1606.html


* PODR = Point of diminishing Returns

[r3dline]

Well if there's one thing I interpret correctly, it appears to be hostility, which was certainly not MY intentions. I was just wanting clarification on the following line:

As far as his "down the road" scenario, in either case you will wind up with "older" stuff but with your Denon/Hsu stuff, it'll be better quality.

I merely interpreted that line to read, in other words, "Whether you get the Denon/HSU or the NAD/B&G (he actually said B&G), you'll have older gear, but the Denon/Hsu will be better quality."

That's just how it looked to be worded. And trust me, I've read it a dozen times trying to figure out what it meant. I meant no hostility, whatsoever. This was the same interpretation that lead me to beleive you were saying Denon was to be of "higher" quality, thus placing NAD to be of "lower" quality than the Denon. That makes sense, does it not?

Now, if you MEANT to mean that either the NAD or the Denon would be of better quality than the HTIB, then that makes more sense. And if that be the case, my apologies for misinterpreting. And I certainly agree with you.

And to clear up even more, I was NOT trying to put words in your mouth. I asked a simple question, in that I could not understand exactly what you was shooting for. Perhaps YOU should "take a chill pill...dude." ;)

As far as bang for the buck...I would probably have to say, from what little experience I have in the audio world, both NAD and Denon offer some pretty darn good "bang for the buck." For pure audio...I, PERSONALLY, would have to say that I must rank the NAD gear a little higher than the Denon gear I've heard. It's just my personal preference, as I've heard both and usually prefer the sound of the NAD. However, when it comes to H/T, I cannot make that comparison, as I do not have enough listening time on either of their H/T gear to make that comparison.

Again, my apologies for not being able to understand you, and thus offending you. Happy listening.

[markw]

I sensed a bit of a confrontational air in your post, so I responed in kind. If I was weong, then apologies all around.

"As far as his "down the road" scenario, in either case you will wind up with "older" stuff but with your Denon/Hsu stuff, it'll be better quality."

This statement of mine, which was misinterperted was referring to the following scenario.

LF wants to buy a system now. Also, he is looking at future purchases "down the road"

Choices for his current purchase is either the Denon/Hsu system or the HTIB. Which is a better buy?

Now, this assumes (there's that word again) that whatever he buys now will be replaced in the future. At which time, it will be "older"

At that time, I would prefer to have an older Denon/HSU system laying around than a HTIB.

And, looking back, I don't know what B & G is. I thought he meant B & W. I know B & K also, but B & G???

And, I agree that NAD would be better for pure music. Did you check out my system?

Oh well, stuff happens... Welcome to the machine

[r3dline]

Ah, no problem at all. And I'm certainly glad we cleared that up. I understand what you was saying, now. And I do certainly agree that if the choice for the CURRENT system is the Denon or HTIB...I would, of course, want that Denon receiver. In fact, what little of the Denon line I've heard...was quite impressive, as I listened to it in comparison to a Yamaha rig at the local shop probably...4 years ago.

As for the NAD...I just love the stuff. At the age of 16 or 17 (I don't recall exactly), I dove into the world of hi-fi audio and purchased my first entry level setup of a new C340 Integrated Amp and matching C420 CD-Player. I fell in love, but had to sell it when I moved off to college. Didn't want to curse the gear with life in the dorms, so I eBayed it off to someone who could take better care of it. Since I'm moving into an apartment finally this summer, I just last week purchased an older NAD T750 H/T receiver to begin my new rig. I have to admit...I'm not quite as impressed with the sound of it in comparison to the C340...but perhaps it's just the accoustics, as it's currently crammed into my girlfriends little efficiency apartment until I can get my own place. But then again...the C340 was pure audio stereo...so maybe I'm seeing something here...

As for your own system, I took a peep and I have to say very nice, even though I have honestly never heard any of the older NAD stuff, prior to the "Classic" line and the newer H/T line. I have actually been thinking of picking up a fairly cheep turntable and purchasing some vinyl, as I have never owned any and only recall hearing some when I was a kid. But I am very curious, and from descriptions feel that I might very well enjoy the sound of vinyl. Having said that, how does that older NAD turntable treat you?

Oh yeah...and what the hell is B&G. I too have seen B&W and B&K...but B&G...

[markw]

I needed a TT to play that pesky vinyl that's been piling up since the early 60's. I honestly dunno if it's worth starting out with vinyl anymore but people do it every day. Again, that's one of those durned preferences we have to deal with. On the plus side, though, is the fact that you can drasticaly alter the sound of vinyl by changing the cartridges. Being transducers, these are as euphonic as speakers in the variations of their manufacturer's interpertation of the "correct" voicing..

The NAD 533 is basically a rebadged Rega Planar 2 with a low end Goldring cartridge (Electra). Replacing the cartridge is the first upgrade to it I'd recommend. It doesn't suck but better is available at moderate cost. It's a good turntable but nowadays better buys exist. I'd be looking at the Music Hall series or even the low end Pro-Jects if I were in the market today.

You do realize you will need a phono preamp for it to work with your 750, don't you?

[r3dline]

Surprisangly, I was quite aware of that. Since Vinyl would definately just be something to play around with, I was thinking of picking up a cheap audio technica from Best Buy for like $70. I THINK it has a built in phono, so I could just hook it up to an aux input. Whatcha think? :/

[markw]

Surprisangly, I was quite aware of that. Since Vinyl would definately just be something to play around with, I was thinking of picking up a cheap audio technica from Best Buy for like $70. I THINK it has a built in phono, so I could just hook it up to an aux input. Whatcha think? :/

Many mass market entry level tts now include built in phono preamps. They probably got tired of all the returns they started getting when people were more adventurous than educated.