Mickey Rourke in "The Wrestler"

[Worf101]

I've seen Sean Penn's "Milk" and Rourke's "Robin Ramjanski" in "The Wrestler". How they gave Penn the Oscar over Rourke I'll never, ever know. This rip-off makes the Iranian elections look fair in comparison. Don't get me wrong I love Penn as an actor but Rourkes performance, his transformation if you will, is right up there with Paul Muni, Lon Chaney and other Chameleons of the Cinema. Although I disliked the ending I found Rourke's performance masterful, riveting and too true for words. The world is full of has been's and never was'. I've known more'n few and have some in my family, his train wreck of a life/performance was spot on. If you've not seen it, you must see it.

Da Worfster

[Auricauricle]

'Morning, Sir Slope!

While I have seen neither, there is big part of me that is sympathetic towards Rourke as compared to Penn. I admire both, but Rourke went through a period in his personal life when failure was at his doorstep. Performances in Nine and a Half Weeks and Angel Heart marred and tarnished a perfectly solid career that came from portrayals in Diner and The Pope from Greewich Village. He's struggled with this checkered career and I understand this latest bit (The Wrestler) is indicative of a real comeback.

Penn is also immensely talented, and while his life has endured many torments, I see his career as being more charmed. I don't think--and I could be wrong--he suffered the indignity and disgrace of making flawed choices and letting a libidinous Id get the better of him. His performances in Dead Man Walking and Bad Boys were riveting, but I wonder if I am more swayed by the stories and not necessarily the actor. As a director, Penn is quite deft, and I would be happy see him apply his energy there. I do admire his work, but as a card carrying member of the School of Hard Knocks, my sentiments lay more alongside the debauched and resilient Rourke.

[3LB]

Given the political 'significance' of Penn's movie in Hollywood, I'm not the slightest bit surprised by any very public award going to Penn over Rourke. Besides, its been said that Penn's award was due in part because it was a "make-up call" for Brokeback Mountain not winning.

I've seen The Wrestler and Rourke was spot-on...so was Tome (and how :arf:)

[Auricauricle]

And that is what irks me about the awards. Seems like the awards are bestowed more on the "political" punch of a movie than for actors' ability. If this is the case, they should parce it out accordingly....

[dean_martin]

haven't seen Milk, but I have no doubt Penn was great.

Have seen The Wrestler and WOW...I was very impressed with Rourke's performance. He silenced my main gripe about him from years gone by (and this is based on memory which is not always accurate) which is that he tried so hard to be cool that it was obvious. In stark contrast (to my memory), he seemed so natural in The Wrestler. He was in his own skin. One of the scenes that cracked me up and amazed me at the same time was when he was playing his old wrestling video game with one of the trailer park kids and the kid started talking about his current favorite game - Rourke truly looked and acted puzzled, completely lost. That scene was brilliantly subtle and worked hand-in-hand with that wretched and not-so-subtle 80s hair band soundtrack (which under normal circumstances would've been a huge turn off for me).

[Worf101]

haven't seen Milk, but I have no doubt Penn was great.

Have seen The Wrestler and WOW...I was very impressed with Rourke's performance. He silenced my main gripe about him from years gone by (and this is based on memory which is not always accurate) which is that he tried so hard to be cool that it was obvious. In stark contrast (to my memory), he seemed so natural in The Wrestler. He was in his own skin. One of the scenes that cracked me up and amazed me at the same time was when he was playing his old wrestling video game with one of the trailer park kids and the kid started talking about his current favorite game - Rourke truly looked and acted puzzled, completely lost. That scene was brilliantly subtle and worked hand-in-hand with that wretched and not-so-subtle 80s hair band soundtrack (which under normal circumstances would've been a huge turn off for me).
Subtlety, the best word for it. In every scene where he could've "gone hollywood" or started chewing up the scenery Rourke didn't. He backed off. His reconciliantion scene with his daughter was a masterstroke of understatement. I've not been so impressed by a characterisation in years.

Da Worfster

[Auricauricle]

That is the best compliment any actor can aspire to, Worf: subtlety. As Rourke has matured and aged, his work has correspondingly born very interesting fruit, no doubt. I can't wait to see this film, and reading everyone's comments here just whets the appetite.

[Kevio]

I've seen both. They're both great performances. There can be only one winner. There's clearly more subtlety in the Wrestler and it is the more difficult movie to watch - neither works it its favor when it comes to earning votes. Other factors besides what's visible on the screen invariably contribute to the decision as to who gets the Oscar. Penn continues to build a respectable and diverse body of work. If you're looking at resumes, he's the superior actor.

[3LB]

I've seen both. They're both great performances. There can be only one winner. There's clearly more subtlety in the Wrestler and it is the more difficult movie to watch - neither works it its favor when it comes to earning votes. Other factors besides what's visible on the screen invariably contribute to the decision as to who gets the Oscar. Penn continues to build a respectable and diverse body of work. If you're looking at resumes, he's the superior actor.

Well, they're both neck and neck for eccentricity. But yer right, Penn has way fewer dogs on his resume than Rourke.

But Rourke definitely has Penn beat for number of spicey scenes with female costars. Kim Basinger, Lisa Bonet, and Marissa Tome...I'm prolly forgetting a couple.

Speaking of these scenes and the corresponding roles, it would seem that for a long time in the '80s and '90s, Rourke was being typecast, while Penn avoided typecasting like the plague. In fact, I can't think of more than a couple of movies that Rourke was in beyond Barfly that weren't spotty. His '90s output kinda sucked, but maybe because he wanted to be a boxer and acting served to pay the bills.

[Kevio]

The Wrestler and Harvey Milk are eccentric characters. When I called the Wrestler eccentric I was talking about the movie. As a movie, Milk has a motive plot; it's a docudrama. The wrestler is a character study. The latter is definitely a more eccentric genre and both more difficult to pull off and more difficult to watch.

[3LB]

The Wrestler and Harvey Milk are eccentric characters. When I called the Wrestler eccentric I was talking about the movie. As a movie, Milk has a motive plot; it's a docudrama. The wrestler is a character study. The latter is definitely a more eccentric genre and both more difficult to pull off and more difficult to watch.

I was referring to both actors:yesnod:

[Auricauricle]

Okay, this is absolutely it! What with the two parallel lines??

[Hyfi]

I just watched this film last night. I liked the movie but hated the ending. A little too much left to the imagination. What I did like is that this movie tells a pretty much non-fictitious story that parallels many Pro Wrestlers lives.

Yeah a bunch of it is scripted or planned but the pain and injuries are for real. I recently found a website that listed all the wrestlers who have died and was blown away by some of the ages and causes of death.

Just like the Ram, first comes the injuries, then comes the pain pills. Next if not earlier are the steroids. Then the vicious cycle begins and continues a violent downward spiral such as what happened to Eddie Garrero and Chris Benoit in the last few years.

Anyway, I thought the acting was superb by most characters including Rourke.

I guess you can tell I am a fan. I have been watching since the 60s when I used to go to the Philadelphia Arena on Thursday nights where they did the TV taping for the Saturday morning UHF TV shows. Lots have changed since then.

The movie was set in my general location and involved the CZW which is sorta out of Philly area and took over doing shows at 8th and Samsom street in Philly which was the former home of ECW until WWE and Vince neutered the ECW.

ECW started the wild hardcore matches such as the Staple Gun match shown in the movie. CZW continued where ECW left off. Search for some Youtube vids of ECW and CZW. Watch the Barbed Wire match between Sabu and Teri Funk where it took about 5 minutes to cut them apart and dislodge the wire from them when the match was over. Also, Nate Hatred played the part of Suga in the movie. Look for some Light Bulb matches between him and the Wifebeater.

As crazy as this seems, and maybe you thought it was a bit far fetched in the movie, these kinds of matches actually take place and the results are sometimes pretty gruesome.

Fake? Call it what you will but fake is not the word.

[3LB]

Fake? Call it what you will but fake is not the word.

Pre-determined outcome is what the wrestlers like to call it. Yes, there is a lot of pain involved, but a lot of what they pass off as wrestling sanitize the real ramifications of things like punching a dude in the face with a fist or hitting another person in the head with a steel chair or aluminum ladder. These are gifted, highly trained athletes, but they wear out fast. I'm amazed that some guys are still in the game after 20 or 30 years.

Wrestling has always been fixed and choreographed. But I cannot stand how WWF (WWE) has turned it into a soap opera. Most of the action has been replaced by a bunch of dialog and remote camera non-sense.

I think MMA has taken a lot of fans away from wrestling. Fans of actual fighting are tired of guys who look like they're dancing. You have all these circus highwire manuvers and such. In MMA, you see guys take a punch or an elbow and immediately you see a lump, a welt, or bleeding, and in pro wrasslin, guys are swingin sledge hammers and chairs and no one gets so much as a scratch. It a total diversion, I know - escapist TV. I could never bring myself to go in person or do the PPV thing.

I've seen a doc about some of those minor league wrestling associations which feature really extreme stuff. It must be a really degrading way of making a living. Not the mention the fact that the pay is lousy. Just like Rourke's character, who works for a grocery store, when he isn't wrestling.

One time I actually laughed out loud at this movie is when The Ram (Rourke) asks his dayjob boss for extra work, including weekends, and his boss replies, "the weekend - isn't that when you're usually sitting on some guy's face?" I felt sorry for the character, but that was funny.

[Hyfi]

One time I actually laughed out loud at this movie is when The Ram (Rourke) asks his dayjob boss for extra work, including weekends, and his boss replies, "the weekend - isn't that when you're usually sitting on some guy's face?" I felt sorry for the character, but that was funny.

That was a friggin hoot wasn't it.

Below is the Barb Wire match that started Extreme wresting.

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Next is the 200 Light Tube match between Nate Hatred (Suga) and Wifebeater. Real glass, real blood!

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/sports_extreme_sports/watch/v17201414ZpHFYQBB

[nightflier]

So how is this different from a gladiatorial spectacle? That these poor men (and some women, apparently) are willing to mutilate themselves for the sake of entertainment does not make it something we should condone. In a way it makes me wonder if we really have evolved much from the Romans, and that if we haven't, that we may also fall back into darker ages. Hey, the Romans never thought it would happen to them either....

Haven't seen either movie yet, but I agree with the oscar having gone to Penn. He does have the more impressive resume.

[Worf101]

So how is this different from a gladiatorial spectacle? That these poor men (and some women, apparently) are willing to mutilate themselves for the sake of entertainment does not make it something we should condone. In a way it makes me wonder if we really have evolved much from the Romans, and that if we haven't, that we may also fall back into darker ages. Hey, the Romans never thought it would happen to them either....

Haven't seen either movie yet, but I agree with the oscar having gone to Penn. He does have the more impressive resume.
Is it "Best Resume on Film for 2008"?
Or is the Category "Best Performance by an Actor"?

Da Worfster

[Hyfi]

So how is this different from a gladiatorial spectacle?

It's not. Neither is Boxing, Martial Arts, Football......

Bottom line....some people just like pain. Tattoos, Body Piercing, people who get into hanging themselves on hooks.

Even worse, people enjoy watching. We can't get enough. Look at every bloody shoot em up games that 95% of parents let their kids play. Look at all the violent TV shows both parents and kids watch. How many people can get killed or blown up in 24 (hours)? How many times in a half hour news program will they show the same casing and blood stain on the ground?

The razor blade to the forehead is probably the oldest blood letting trick and there from the early wrestlers. Look at any old timers forehead.

All I can say is at least these nuts are doing what they enjoy and getting paid something. You don't have to do these types of matches unless you want to.

[nightflier]

It's not. Neither is Boxing, Martial Arts, Football...... Even worse, people enjoy watching. We can't get enough. Look at every bloody shoot em up games that 95% of parents let their kids play. Look at all the violent TV shows both parents and kids watch. How many people can get killed or blown up in 24 (hours)? How many times in a half hour news program will they show the same casing and blood stain on the ground?

It seems to me that the real question is whether this is a good thing. Perhaps many of the problems we have today as a society are the result of our violent outlets. Somehow this comes back to bite us in the rear: soldiers who think they can interrogate prisoners like Jack Bauer, teenagers who think they can DDT their best friend in the back yard, little children who think that shooting their sister with Dad's handgun is not fatal, pimps beating young girls into prostitution, motorcycle riders thinking they are invincible, and thugs thinking they can rob the corner AM-PM at gunpoint and not get caught. After all, they were able to do this on San Andreas, right? Ultimately this is the price we pay for condoning this violence on the screen. That a few of us are destitute or disillusioned enough to partake is one thing, but that so many of us enjoy it is a matter of a whole different proportion. In the end it makes a mockery of civilization and debases who we are as human beings.

Worf, the resume always wins out. If Charles Manson were to suddenly be born again and preach love and forgiveness, would anyone really forget the resume?

[dean_martin]

always with the platitudes

[Hyfi]

Am I blind or is the post about the Boardwalk scene being in Asbury Park gone?

Anyway, I was just there. I had guessed the scene was Asbury but was not familiar with the Casino. It is slated to be Condos at some point.

5765

[02audionoob]

I'd like to remind everyone of the important part about The Wrestler...Marisa Tomei.

[dean_martin]

I'd like to remind everyone of the important part about The Wrestler...Marisa Tomei.

I think she is befittingly depicted as tired and showing her age in The Wrestler. Still, there's nothing wrong with her. For a comparatively fresher depiction, see Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. (Be prepared for spiraling despair and desperation.)

[02audionoob]

I think she is befittingly depicted as tired and showing her age in The Wrestler. Still, there's nothing wrong with her. For a comparatively fresher depiction, see Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. (Be prepared for spiraling despair and desperation.)

I suppose I like women who age gracefully rather than fighting it with make-up and surgery.

[3LB]

I suppose I like women who age gracefully rather than fighting it with make-up and surgery.

Well, there's aging gracefully...and then there's Marisa Tomei

:arf:

[nightflier]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but what am I missing here? Marissa is supposed to be a bit worn out in the movie, right? Maybe make-up was a big factor?

Personally, I still think she looks pretty darned good in real life. Let's remember that she's, what, 45 years old? How many of us who are around that age look that good?

[02audionoob]

I think Ms. Tomei looks her age in the movie and that's A-OK with me.

[Luvin Da Blues]

How many of us who are around that age look that good?

Bertinelli is lookin' pretty good lately.

[dean_martin]

I think Ms. Tomei looks her age in the movie and that's A-OK with me.

Agreed. She plays a spoiled, pampered socialite in Before the Devil...(from '07) and looks the part. Either depiction is "A-OK" with me.