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budgetaudio76
06-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Just what the Caption says!

What is your favorite vynil rig?

For me i only have 2 tt's. And the one we or i use the most(like 99.99999999999999% percent of the time) is a Pioneer PL-540 connected to a Sansui QRX-7500A.
Speakers are a set of Coral BX40 or bx-60 and the other pair a set of sansui SP-30(very near mint condition). These speakers arent the greatest for bass but they have an effortless mid range presence.

What i like about the rig?

The tt is mid-line but of descent build quality. MDF plinth covered with some grey(not sure what it is) it also has RCA jacks in the rear. Which makes swapping cables a snap. It has auto return.

The current receiver in use is the sansui stated above. Near top of the line goodness. But its a huge receiver(quad) It has a good sound but im sure it would sound better if i would clean out the switches. Surprisingly there is no static on the knobs potentiometers. signal level VU meters which helps in calibration or tuning of the sound with out over driving or under driving the receiver.

Before this setup we used a HK PM 655 for the rig. Which is a fine Integrated in its own right. Way under the radar. It has an mm/mc amp and sensitivity switch.

The speakers are nothing special. Just that they have an effortless midrange. And seem to be unforgiving of poorly recorded music. But they are good for back ground music. Which i do when im using the rig.

Usually i liste to cable musi, because of greater selection and genres available.

And this wont be the last iteration of the rig we have. and i would like to hear or read of your favorite rig or your only rig you like to use.:14:

the bass out of our rig doesnt go as deep as id like. But that is ok. We get enough bass from our main rig. But that is awhole nother story. no time for it here.

JohnMichael
06-20-2009, 09:20 PM
I currently own a Rega Planar 2 that is about 11 years old. In those 11 years I have rewired the tonearm, replaced the counterweight, replaced the subplatter and bearing, replaced the felt mat with the Ringmat and using a combination of Rega feet and cones.

I am interested in the VPI Classic table and the Nottingham tables.

budgetaudio76
06-20-2009, 10:17 PM
Johnmichael, Considering the work you have done to the TT, How well does the table deal with outside vibrations?


Initially when i had the Table on top of my integrated, smaller than the Sansui, It transfered more vibrations to the needle.

Since ive started to use the sansui 7500a, which by the way sits on top of a Sansui QRX 6500 and the table sits on a CD/DVD player on top of the receivers. I noticed that floor vibrations hardly transfer to the needle....Equating to, More mass the table sits on the less vibration transfers to the needle...and this goes along with what ive read in this and other forums.:14:

Auricauricle
06-21-2009, 11:14 AM
BA: From what I see, the Sansui is a beautiful receiver and looks like it would power up a small city with little effort. I too, like the older stuff and can hardly wait until the turntable is plugged in. Space constraints make this a pipe-dream, but reading y'alls' posts is makin' me itchy!

JM: That Rega was a swell TT when it came out, and I am sure it is very pleasurable even by today's standards. Those Brit tables are especially fine, and it sounds like you know where you're headed. Personally, I get gooey remembering some of those Micro Seiki TT's with the two-ton brass platters and and outboard motors....Ah....Sh....This is no good....

budgetaudio76
06-21-2009, 01:39 PM
auricauricle, The 7500a is pretty much a 30 wpc at 8 ohms. I think its the same in the quad mode. It is a huge receiver but it could be classified as a flea power unit.

little clarification on the TT, I looked behind there a few minutes ago and found that the table has a built in wires on it(RCA), Seems like i was thinking of the Technics i have when i posted originally. its a sl qd3 , there is a bit of hum with it. so it sits on the side lines.

Auricauricle
06-21-2009, 02:45 PM
Don't underestimate the ability of even 30 watts to be prodigious. If the power is cleaned and you can listen to your music at pleasing volumes with enough headroom left over to take care of the transient peaks, you're good to go. I think this is where many folks are misled: thinking that quality is measured in watts. This is a facile thing to say, but it seems that the Watt War overshadows the more important issues of presentation, image, "pacing" (Mr. P's term), clarity, etc. So, even fleas can be pretty formidiable, huh?

budgetaudio76
06-21-2009, 03:09 PM
Case in point would be the 2000x. That little receivers got balls to it.

Its got all of 39 wpc into 8 ohms.

budgetaudio76
06-21-2009, 04:41 PM
The stereo separation of this is very good. Even sitting at the listening position for the main rig. and the vynil rig on the left side. Out side of optimal seating position. I can hear both sides of the speakers. Which amazes me because both speakers are to the left and ahead of the seat i occupy.

JohnMichael
06-21-2009, 05:25 PM
Johnmichael, Considering the work you have done to the TT, How well does the table deal with outside vibrations?






Turntables can be affected by both external and internal vibrations. My turntable is on a sturdy stand on a sturdy floor. I have never had foot fall problems with the Planar 2. My speakers do not reproduce the lower octaves of bass so there is no acoustical feedback. My combination of Rega feet and cones help reduce internal vibrations. I have a cone in the rear by the motor to drain any motor vibrations. This has helped along with the machined metal subplatter and the ruby bearing. Since the subplatter is spinning more accurately there is again a reduction in internal vibrations. Yes it is sounding good.

budgetaudio76
06-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Thanks for the clarification on the vibration affecting the TT. I never considered the internal vibrations affecting the sound amplification...

After buying my Pioneer, i had to fashion some feet out of some foam tubes, the water proof type. After a bit of brainstorming (which wasnt much) i screwed on the foam, but after spray painting them to match the table. Black undercoat with a shadow of grey , which is barely noticable but can be seen upon closer inspection. Cant tell for certain how the feet perform in regards to micro vibration transfer.

RGA
06-22-2009, 03:11 AM
The best deck I have heard - which is also my favorite deck is the original Audio Note TT3. The TT3 is a remake of the Voyd Reference which was arguably one of the best turntables in existence with three separate motors. The TT3 rig I auditioned rand about $20,000US but the company has since moved on to a new in house TT3 that with arm and cart would run over $80,000.

So yeah I'll never be able to afford one unless all you generous audiophiles would like to donate to the RGA needs a top vinyl rig fund. I have purchased a TT2 which is not in the same class but I am going to be picking it up next month and am quite excited to listen to this reworked and turbocharged Systemdek II

The new TT3 I really would love to audition http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/reviews/HFC10_AN.pdf

budgetaudio76
06-22-2009, 08:04 AM
that sounds like a very nice table...Too bad my PS3 cant read the pdf file. Ill have to wait until i have access toa bonafide computer.

budgetaudio76
06-22-2009, 08:13 AM
RGA---That is a very nice table, I just remembered that i have access to google. And i went ahead and googled it. like a good surfer would i guess:D

E-Stat
06-22-2009, 09:44 AM
What is your favorite vynil rig?
My favorite to experience, not own is the Clearaudio Reference. I gave a short review of this a while back here (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28044&highlight=clearaudio)

I also have two (far more modest) turntables. One is a newer VPI Scout with a Souther TQ-1 linear arm with a Dynavector DV-20. My old friend in the vintage system is an Ariston RD-11s with a SME 3009 II Improved arm using a Shure M97. I've had that table since I was in high school in the 70s. It continues to serve me well and has been quite reliable, if not provide the ultimate performance of the VPI/Souther/Dynavector combo.

rw

budgetaudio76
06-22-2009, 04:46 PM
That is an impressive Statement peice there e-stat. Must exhibit tremendous torque, And not to mention the stability all the weight provides.

RGA
06-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Yeah why don't we see a top end turntable shootout in those What Hi-fi Shootouts LOL.

It is really interesting to see the completely different design philosophy of the Clearaudio table which is clearly all about mass and the AN turntable which is all about the reverse in a sense being a suspended design.

It is also interesting that both companies have improved upon older designs in tone arms etc. And I like that both companies have their "wow" look at the neat design and parts history.

There are numerous other big expensive turntables out there and that is why I admire audiofederation because this dealer distributor has auditioned most if not all of them. You could audition a few of them if you're ever in Colorado and I know I would love to listen to some of their systems. They may be one of the biggest and deepest high end dealers in North America - they're now actually carrying the AN super table and the Walker and a few others... http://www.audiofederation.com/catalog/turntables/

Something interesting from Stereophile is a note that something to look for in a turntable that often goes overlooked is the issue around torque. I can comment on this only between the TT1 TT2 and TT3 - the TT1 and TT2 are Systemdeks the latter being a two motor version offering better torque stability - and a lot better sound. The Voyd is in a lot of ways similar to the Systemdek and Thorens 124 but has three motors more torque and even greater stability. None of them are all that big and heavy and I don't think it's all that necessary. I think Art might be onto something. I just like the look of the old Voyd/TT3 http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/listening_75/index.html (not two pages)

budgetaudio76
06-23-2009, 09:24 AM
alot of good rigs on those sites.


What about the rig that some of you use. What receiver do yu use, or do you use a outboard phono preamp. Real world applications are applicable...esoteric is nice to look at....but i dont have enough drool rags readily available.

Does your rig have good synergy?

JohnMichael
06-23-2009, 10:21 AM
alot of good rigs on those sites.


What about the rig that some of you use. What receiver do yu use, or do you use a outboard phono preamp. Real world applications are applicable...esoteric is nice to look at....but i dont have enough drool rags readily available.

Does your rig have good synergy?


I have yet to buy a truly good phono preamp. I currently own two outbaord phono pre's the Rotel RQ 970BX and Cambridge Audio 640P. I also have a MM phono pre in the Onkyo integrated amp. My Ortofon OM20 sounds the best through the Onkyo's built in phono stage. I own a Benz MC Gold low output moving coil cartridge that is in it's box waiting for a good phono preamp. I am so happy with the sound of the Ortofon through the Onkyo that I am in no hurry to shop for another pnono preamp.

RGA
06-23-2009, 04:09 PM
Budgetaudio76

My TT2/arm3/IQ3 came in last month. I order it around May or June 2008 but being built to order and being heavily backlogged as they are it took about 10 months. I am in China but back in Canada in July ready to plop down the money and pick it up. This is the most I've spent on any audio component but the upgrade over my Nad (Rega 2) and some of the other turntables I auditioned (a couple of LP 12s, Clearaudio Emotion, Roksan, some projects) I felt it was very much worth the money.

You can check out the table, arm and cart on this site http://www.responseaudio.com/audio_note_turntables.htm - my only wish is that it were as sexy as some of the other tables in its price class because it just looks plain.

budgetaudio76
06-23-2009, 04:41 PM
I feel like such an ignoramus, Alot of what im reading sounds like a foreign language, Some of the nomenclature i can readily understand

Like mm/mc cartridges, tone arm...hmm, come to think of it i understand more than i think, So much to know though...

I gots alot to learn. Some day ill be able to afford some outside of the vintage arena.

RGA
06-24-2009, 12:17 AM
Man if you think that's hard buy a modern receiver - they have about 10 different surround sound modes and keeping up with it all is nuts.

For most turntable users with normal budgets moving magnet (MM) cartridges is what we have (inexpensive Moving coil cartridges are not very good and not better than MM - which is the main reason AN's least expensive MC cartridge is over $3,000.

One thing that I like about my new turntable is that the company is pretty friendly to people with not a lot of money. Because it is based off of Systemdek turntables which you may remember from the 70's and 80s, anyone who wants to buy an old model for a $100 at a garage sale or used record shop is pretty much buying a TT1. You can then buy the current platter for under $100 and have someone do some of the upgrades for cheap. Nice way to get a current $2k rig for far less money. Lots of upgradeability is possible.

Never knock the vintage stuff - I am not as knowledgable about tables as some but there are gold mines out there if you have the time and inclination to look. Systemdek, certain Thorens, Linn, Voyd, Haybrook (sp? which the Linn and Systemdeks were based on), etc.

There's always the Rega P3 which is one of the most popular and affordable turntables around.

budgetaudio76
06-25-2009, 06:58 AM
hey thanks for the info on the system decks. and their upgradeability.

I like my old pioneer as well. It is on the heavy side. Not a lite weight unit.


Oh by the way i did a minor tweek to the system.
I added a thin sheet of rubber foam non slip material between the 7500a and the 6500. I put it under the black sheet of mdf that is in between the units. Not sure just how it will benefit the system. Maybe the benefit would be just that the receiver wont slip off the bottom unit in a large earth quake.

jrhymeammo
06-26-2009, 06:02 PM
My phono pre. VTL TP-2.5.
Though it is prone to RFI in my environment, but it truly does the job right, when setup correctly.
It doesn't mean I won't be upgrading/changing it.

Has anyone here shown interest in K&K Maxxed Out phono stage with upgrades? It looks very similar to Art Audio Vinyl Reference....

5708

5709

5710

JRA

budgetaudio76
06-26-2009, 11:59 PM
That sure is sweet. Is it a Phono preamp?

One day ill aspire to an outboard preamp....With tubes even...Just how does it sound?




BTW---I figured out how to run my Vynil rig thru my main rig...Im using my tape out from the 7500a into tape one of my C70...Sweet sounds. I like the sound out of it better than the cable music....Much smoother sound!:idea:

Ron Pilgrim
06-28-2009, 09:00 PM
My all time favorite TT as to what I can afford is a Dual 505-2 with an Ortofon LM30 cart. Running a close second is a Technics SL 1401 with an Audio Technica AT125LC cart. The Dual has very good acoustic isolation and is mounted on a heavy wall shelf to minimize mechanical vibration. The Ortofon has very neutral sound with amazing clarity. The stylus tip is quite small which makes for quieter ticks and pops on older LP's. The Technics was a gift from my dad and offers rock steady performance and the AT125LC is a deadly tracker and is well suited to livelier recordings. Unless I move into a higher income bracket, I doubt that I will replace either of them.

budgetaudio76
06-29-2009, 08:04 PM
HHHm interesting that you bring up the mechanical vibration....Is that associated with internal vibrations as opposed to outside vibrations?

I ask because the PL-540 that i use, has an ,either, MDF or an HDF plinth.

But my Technics SL DQ3 has a plastic plinth which is hollow, where as the Pioneer is solid hence heavier than the technics.
Which would be better able to keep the needle isolated as much as possible from vibrations. Both internal and external.

budgetaudio76
07-27-2009, 01:23 AM
got two new tables , more info requested later.:smilewinkgrin:

jrhymeammo
07-27-2009, 04:20 PM
TTWeight 600gram is my current favorite vinyl rig

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1248739383.jpg

JoeE SP9
07-27-2009, 06:45 PM
Nice weight. Where is it? Just kidding. I'm surprised I don't see a center clamp.
I see the very nice copper ring. I've been hearing very good things about them. Started to spring for one and decided it was time to get the Oracle I always wanted. My VPI is now sale pending! A buddy has desired it for years. I'm giving him his chance.

jrhymeammo
07-28-2009, 05:49 AM
You are absolutely correct. It does seem a bit odd to see a ring without a clamp.
It's usually the other way around.
I've been a bit picky on which type of clamp/weight to use, but I think I've finally
decided to weigh it down, instead of clamping or sealing it against the spindle.

My disposable income has been depleted for this month, so it would have to wait a couple of weeks.
<o></o>
I think I'm going to get one from Bren1.
http://www.bren1recordclamp.com/
<o></o>
Do you have any recommendation on affordable weights?
The one from TTWeights Audio is affordable as well, but don't care to pay higher S&H.


JRA

budgetaudio76
07-28-2009, 07:50 AM
I have found two more tables. Since i have started this thread. ones a pioneer pl 510 and the othre ones a rotel , Of which i dont remember the model number. Maybe ill post pics of them later.

As well as one of the current vinyl rig. I have since added new spekers to the set up.dont remember the model on it.

JoeE SP9
08-02-2009, 04:04 PM
You are absolutely correct. It does seem a bit odd to see a ring without a clamp.
It's usually the other way around.
I've been a bit picky on which type of clamp/weight to use, but I think I've finally
decided to weigh it down, instead of clamping or sealing it against the spindle.

My disposable income has been depleted for this month, so it would have to wait a couple of weeks.
<o></o>
I think I'm going to get one from Bren1.
http://www.bren1recordclamp.com/
<o></o>
Do you have any recommendation on affordable weights?
The one from TTWeights Audio is affordable as well, but don't care to pay higher S&H.

JRA

The Planax clamp I purchased years ago works very well. Being a clamp I can adjust how much pressure to use. I haven't seen another in quite a while.

02audionoob
08-02-2009, 05:58 PM
I have just recently added a Sorbogel mat on my glass platter and for now I have stopped using my clamp. I think I'm getting a little smoother highs.

02audionoob
08-04-2009, 08:06 PM
I have just recently added a Sorbogel mat on my glass platter and for now I have stopped using my clamp. I think I'm getting a little smoother highs.

Update...I'm also getting a very tenacious residue on my records.:19:

harley .guy07
08-06-2009, 07:36 PM
When I was a kid my father had a Technics turntable that in memory seemed to be built well and it sounded good. He always put the best stylus's he could get on it.He did not have a outboard preamp because most of the integrated amps back then came equiped with onboard preamps. My question is how do these vintage Technics units compare to todays stuff. I am thinking of exploring the world of vinyl again after many years and do not have the product knowledge of what is good out there now. But I have seen a few vintage Technics turntables for sale on different sites. I know that Technics as a brand is not all that great anymore but the older turntables interest me. If you guys could help me please do and also inform me of some of the better for the money outboard preamps out there since I use a yamaha receiver as a preamp right now and it does not have phono stage on it. Thanks :0:

budgetaudio76
08-08-2009, 01:10 PM
got yet another tt, Last weekend. PIcs coming...and here they are

its a kenwood KD 2055. It has a marble base, very solid. , with the ortofon super om 10 it is very sweet. But the auto return needs a new belt for it to function.

3db
08-11-2009, 04:53 AM
I've heard this turntable paly and it sounds as good as it looks. Its one of the most revealing turntables I've ever heard.

Auricauricle
08-11-2009, 05:57 AM
I always had a soft spot fer Micro Seiki.....That one there, 3dp is shore purty!

budgetaudio76
08-13-2009, 08:52 PM
OOH!!! Both those tables look sweet. Lots of metal. And looks very solid. Sweet!

budgetaudio76
08-18-2009, 02:13 PM
TTWeight 600gram is my current favorite vinyl rig

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1248739383.jpg
What brand is this table? Its a very nice looking table. I remember i was going to respond to this post, But i got distracted. 600 grams would turn out to how many pounds i wonder.
Thank you all who posted their favorite TT. And im sure there are more people who have favorites theyve heard. So if you have the time, Show us what is your favorite. Thank you.

Luvin Da Blues
08-18-2009, 04:25 PM
600 grams would turn out to how many pounds i wonder.

Is that American pounds or British pounds? Just jokin'...................

600g/454(g/lb) = 1.32lbs

02audionoob
08-18-2009, 04:40 PM
The glass platter on a Rega weighs about 3 or 4 American pounds, so I would think turntables must not be that sensitive about the weight on top.

Luvin Da Blues
08-18-2009, 04:47 PM
The glass platter on a Rega weighs about 3 or 4 American pounds, so I would think turntables must not be that sensitive about the weight on top.

Generally the heavier the platter the more stable the speed would be. Of course it would take a motor with more torque to get it up to speed. In theory, heavier platters would also reject vibrations better as well as reducing most resonance in the platter.

02audionoob
08-18-2009, 04:55 PM
In theory, heavier platters would also reject vibrations better as well as reducing most resonance in the platter.

It's a valid theory in the context of a single material, but the Pro-Ject Acryl-It platter weighs about half as much as glass and resonates less.

Luvin Da Blues
08-18-2009, 04:59 PM
It's a valid theory in the context of a single material, but the Pro-Ject Acryl-It platter weighs about half as much as glass and resonates less.

To steal Auricauricle's tag line..............

"The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

RGA
08-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Pretty much everyone upgrades their glass platter to Acrylic - even on Rega tables with glass like the P-3.

Heavy stores energy longer releasing it later smudging the sound - or as some turntable and speaker makers believe. My turntables is of the design that they want to get rid of energy as fast as possible and damping is not a good idea - that goes for their speakers and CD player designs. Slowly I see other makers gravitating to some of these approaches.

jrhymeammo
08-20-2009, 06:23 PM
What brand is this table? Its a very nice looking table. I remember i was going to respond to this post, But i got distracted. 600 grams would turn out to how many pounds i wonder.
Thank you all who posted their favorite TT. And im sure there are more people who have favorites theyve heard. So if you have the time, Show us what is your favorite. Thank you.

It's a Technics SL-1200mk2 with Rega RB-250 w/ some mods.
I've recently got LP weight by the same company that weights 454 grams (1 lb) bringing the total pressure to over 1kg (2.2+ lbs).

TTweight has come out with Perriphery ring for SL-1200 TT, but they are less than 300grams. I don't think 300 grams would offer sufficient pressure to counter warp. 600gram and up will be neccesary, especially for thicker/stiffer LP. Problem is that 600 gram cannot be fitted due to intereferance of on/off swtich knob. I took off the switch cover to meet required clearance. I couldn't go any higher on platter mat thickness due to limited height of the spindle. It's a great sounding deck, but as usual I'm looking to upgrade the tonearm. Will see.

Thanks

budgetaudio76
08-20-2009, 09:25 PM
Im such a noob in these matters. The jargon escapes me. But im still learning about these different things. Its great i like it..:D
Nver would have thought it is aTechnics SL-1200 mk2. Or any technics for that matter. Its a fine looking table.:music:

budgetaudio76
08-20-2009, 09:26 PM
Is that American pounds or British pounds? Just jokin'...................

600g/454(g/lb) = 1.32lbs

funny stuff!:out:

jrhymeammo
08-26-2009, 04:07 PM
Has anyone here shown interest in K&K Maxxed Out phono stage with upgrades? It looks very similar to Art Audio Vinyl Reference....

JRA

After further research, it seems Kevin from K&K audio designed both the Vinyl Reference and K&K phono stage. But the Maxxed-Out phono is priced at less than 1/2 of the Vinyl Reference. Of course the design isn't exactly the same, but it is starting to look more and more like my next big upgrade.

budgetaudio76
09-12-2009, 04:25 PM
After further research, it seems Kevin from K&K audio designed both the Vinyl Reference and K&K phono stage. But the Maxxed-Out phono is priced at less than 1/2 of the Vinyl Reference. Of course the design isn't exactly the same, but it is starting to look more and more like my next big upgrade.


That is one serious phono stage....At some point i would like to upgrade to an outboard phono stage. financially speaking it isnt possible in the near future. Children tend to drain the finances.

3db
09-22-2009, 05:30 AM
Pretty much everyone upgrades their glass platter to Acrylic - even on Rega tables with glass like the P-3.

Heavy stores energy longer releasing it later smudging the sound - or as some turntable and speaker makers believe. My turntables is of the design that they want to get rid of energy as fast as possible and damping is not a good idea - that goes for their speakers and CD player designs. Slowly I see other makers gravitating to some of these approaches.

What TT are going this route? Can you give at least 5 exampples of different manufacturers? "Heavy stores energy longer releasing it later smudging the sound" is inaccurate. A heavy platter doesn't release any energy unless the forced used to turn the platter is removed. Once the energy is removed, the platters inertia maintains the speed long enough to keep the speed wobble in audable. Without a heavy platter, you would definately here more wow and flutter unless you have a servo mechansim with feed back. But with belt drives without servo, there is no other means of protecting against fluctuations