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landolfi
06-14-2009, 07:49 AM
Hi all,

I've read the FAQ and searched other posts, but don't see this particular situation with using a bass manager for SACD with a receiver with a non-adjustable crossover.

I have a Yamaha RX-V630 AV receiver feeding 4 Boston Acoustics VR 950s and an SVS PB10-NSD sub with an Outlaw ICBM-1 bass manager, and the bass level is OK but seems to lack oomph on SACDs. I feed 5.1 to the Outlaw from an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-Ray player to the Outlaw and from the Outlaw, the 6-channel input on the Yamaha to all speakers. I have set the speakers to large in the Oppo, but there is no menu option to defeat the crossover in the Yamaha, which I understand is a fixed 90Hz (my understanding of the Yamaha speaker settings menu is that the settings have no effect on 6-channel input). I have the ICBM-1 set to the setting on it nearest to 90Hz output, which is 80Hz (next nearest is 120). I think I have a cascading crossover situation in which I am losing the 10Hz difference between what the Outlaw is sending and what the Yamaha is sending. The SVS doesn't have any way to run inputs directly from the speakers, it just has an LFE in. My question: Is this a cascading crossover and is there anything I can do short of getting a new receiver with an adjustable crossover?

TIA,

Bob

Mr Peabody
06-14-2009, 11:20 AM
I am not familiar with that Outlaw piece. How were you using it before? I'd suggest taking it out of the loop and try the Oppo directly into the receiver's multichannel analog input. Then use the Oppo's bass adjustments. It don't make sense to buy a new receiver and most likely a new receiver will have the same issue. It sounds to me like the Outlaw is duplicating what is already in the Oppo and not necessary.

landolfi
06-14-2009, 04:10 PM
Thanks, Mr. P.

Before I got the Oppo, I had the Outlaw in the same position inbetween SACD player and amp, only fed by a Sony DVD/SACD player formerly. Various people have told me that bass management for SACD and DVD/Audio tends not to be very good, I don't know why although I think I almost grasped it once, but at any rate that's why I got the ICBM.

I have tried going direct from Oppo to Yamaha, and the bass is really wimpy in that config. I also ran into the same issue, because the Oppo has a fixed crossover at 80 Hz where the Yamaha is at 90 Hz. Fortunately the sub has no crossover to further complicate this.

Mr Peabody
06-14-2009, 05:05 PM
When using analog inputs the sub crossover inside the receiver shouldn't effect anything. Does it when using a two channel analog input? If so, there should be some way in the menu to disengage it.

Are you using the Oppo 5.1 analog out? Actually connecting six separate RCA cables? This is the best way especially to avoid your cascade issue. One RCA for each of your 5 channels (center R/L main and rear) and a sixth for sub. As your sub crossover isn't an issue this hook up should cure the problem.

musicman1999
06-14-2009, 06:04 PM
Hi

Try setting the speakers in Oppo to small, remove ICBM from signal chain and set the Yamaha to direct imput. That way only one crossover is in play, in the Oppo,

bill

Mr Peabody
06-14-2009, 08:15 PM
Hi Bill, where have you been? Did you see the firmware is out to upgrade the Pioneer to do DTS-MA?

landolfi
06-15-2009, 05:55 AM
Thanks, guys. Yes, I am using the analog inputs from Oppo to the Yamaha, so if the Yamaha crossover isn't active with analog in, I'm all good.

Mr Peabody
06-15-2009, 06:22 AM
I don't know why you'd have a lack of bass though. The sub out on Oppo is going to the sub in on receiver, right? MM1999 has a good point, check the Yamaha to see if it has a "direct" mode that assures bypass of any internal processing.

If all of that is good, then go into the Oppo and try boosting the sub output level. It's better to it inside the Oppo so when going back to watching movies you don't have to adjust the sub level again on the sub or receiver.

Do you have the same issue when using HDMI? SACD should work via HDMI in PCM.

landolfi
06-15-2009, 07:23 AM
I am using the sub in on the 6-channel inputs. Bass is fine with coaxial out, just lacking on SACD or anything else (e.g., TrueHD) using those analog inputs. I will try setting the Oppo to small for speakers and bost the sub channel substantially. Doing that on the old Sony didn't give me enough bass, which is why I got the external bass manager, but the Oppo has better bass management options.

landolfi
06-15-2009, 07:24 AM
Oh, and no direct mode in the Yamaha, only large and small speaker settings, which seem to have no effect on analog inputs.

musicman1999
06-16-2009, 03:13 PM
Hi Bill, where have you been? Did you see the firmware is out to upgrade the Pioneer to do DTS-MA?

Hey Mr P

How are things? I have installed the new firmware and it turns a good player into a very good player. I am going to try to get back into regular posting and see whats going on in the audio world. Just made my first foray into power cords with a couple of Shunyata lower level models.
Getting ready for Paul McCartney in July, believe it or not he's playing in the center of the city, outdoors about a quarter of a mile from my house.

cheers

bill

Mr Peabody
06-16-2009, 04:57 PM
Bill, could you tell any difference when adding the power cords? Can you tell any difference between the Sony vs the Pioneer BDP's? See you haven't upgraded that amp yet. For later this summer I have tickets for two shows Nickelback and Incubus.

Mr Peabody
06-16-2009, 04:59 PM
Landolfi, how does the unit sound now? Does your Yammie have HDMI?

landolfi
06-16-2009, 06:16 PM
Mr P, this system rocks. I believe the lack of bass I noticed was a particular recording, because there is now neither lack of bass nor lack of LFE with the same config as before, with your help I was able to validate my config. I noticed a similar thing with my Etymotic ER-4P headphones: I hear large variances in the dynamic range of recordings on SACD that were not as distinguishable before, I watched Underworld last night and fully expected to hear from neighbors as well as the police. Thanks for all your help.

musicman1999
06-17-2009, 02:08 AM
Bill, could you tell any difference when adding the power cords? Can you tell any difference between the Sony vs the Pioneer BDP's? See you haven't upgraded that amp yet. For later this summer I have tickets for two shows Nickelback and Incubus.

Mr P

The difference in cords was not of the 'oh my god" kind but it was there and enough to justify the cost, as you know, as your system evolves it gets tougher to make a daylight and dark kind of difference.My Sony player is currently a PS3 and the Pioneer has better picture and sound and by a bit, it's a nice machine. I have had a couple of amps home recently but still haven't found just what i want yet, can't decide between multi channel or add an integrated and use cambridge for the rest. Had a Moon I-1 home and it was nice, but still can't decide...

bill

Mr Peabody
06-17-2009, 05:35 AM
What about just adding a stereo amp for the mains. The Anthem is a good preamp. The only draw back may be if you detect sonic differences between mains and center while watching movies. Maybe get a couple Bryston monoblocks, then you can add one to the other channels as money permits :)

musicman1999
06-17-2009, 04:37 PM
What about just adding a stereo amp for the mains. The Anthem is a good preamp. The only draw back may be if you detect sonic differences between mains and center while watching movies. Maybe get a couple Bryston monoblocks, then you can add one to the other channels as money permits :)

Ahhhhhhhhh Bryston. Not sure if i would want to pay the electric bill for 5 hungry Bryston monoblocks, but would sure sound sweet. Actually i am hoping in the next couple of weeks to hear some of the Bel Canto switching amps, the reviews are all very good but i have yet to hear one.Ever heard any?

bill

Mr Peabody
06-17-2009, 05:13 PM
I have not heard them. I believe Hyfi has one. Our local Krell dealer had some one back out of a deal and was blowing out a NIB 2250 for about $2200.00, regular $4k. Let me know if you are seriously looking and I can look around for some deals.

musicman1999
06-18-2009, 02:04 AM
I am afraid my amp fund has taken a bit of a hit lately, what with the power cables and McCartney tickets coming out so it will be this fall before i get that built back up.

bill