Magnepan 1d

[IBSTORMIN]

I have thought about trying some type of planer speaker and this looks interesting. What can you tell me about this speaker pair? All I know is they were built in 1980 and they are 4' x 6'. What type is it, how much power to drive properly, sound quality, best placement, known problems. I have a local guy wanting to sell a pair for $500. Says they are near perfect. I haven't seen or heard them yet and thought I would get your guys input. Anything you can tell me would help me decide if I should go take a look/listen.

[JoeE SP9]

They would be Tympani 1D's. They have three hinged panels per side. They usually are bi-amped. Like all of Magnepan's speakers they need a lot of power to perform. If you have ever heard and liked any Magneplanars you will probably like them. At the very least they deserve a listen.

[IBSTORMIN]

They would be Tympani 1D's.
Yes they are!


They usually are bi-amped.
Ok, Explain. Two seperate amps to power the pair of speakers?


Like all of Magnepan's speakers they need a lot of power to perform. 200 watts RMS enough?


If you have ever heard and liked any Magneplanars you will probably like them. At the very least they deserve a listen.
Never heard them, but I like accuracy and think I might. The guy claimed they were perfect, now when asked if there was anything wrong with them he replied they probably, because of the age, are delaminating. He says it doesn't affect the sound?

[blackraven]

200wpc RMS should do. If you have questions about the longevity of that model, call Magnepan direct. I live 20min from the factory and there are nice helpful people there.

www.magnepan.com

651-426-1645

[Florian]

Not playfull 200RMS....real power ;-) Something like a Krell KMA or Mark Levinson ... big balls ;-)

[JoeE SP9]

Yes they are!


Ok, Explain. Two seperate amps to power the pair of speakers?

200 watts RMS enough?


Never heard them, but I like accuracy and think I might. The guy claimed they were perfect, now when asked if there was anything wrong with them he replied they probably, because of the age, are delaminating. He says it doesn't affect the sound?

Yes, 2 separate stereo amps. Ideally you would use an active electronic crossover. One amp drives the bass panels. One amp drives the midrange tweeter panels. They don't have to be bi-amped although they will sound better when driven by 2 stereo amps. You could use different amps for the different sections. Tubes for the midrange/tweeter panels and SS for the bass panels.

Something like 2 Adcom GFA-555's would provide enough power. They may not sound as good as a pair of Krell KSA-200's but they would work just fine. With all Magneplanar's the better the amp the better the sound. They are revealing enough to hear the differences in amps. A single 200WPC may or may not be enough depending on your room size and the volume levels you want.

If you decide you like the sound of panels, you will probably never be satisfied with boxes again. This is what happened to me. I think E-Stat had the same sort of epiphany. In his and my case this culminated in ESL's.


Delamination is when the voltage/current carrying wires lift from the mylar diaphragm. Magnepan sells a kit to re-glue the wires. This can and does happen to older Maggy's.
www.audiokarma.org (http://www.audiokarma.org) has many Maggy owners who have re-glued the wires on Maggy's and lots of references about doing it.

The price sounds very good even if the wires need re-glueing. There is a pair of 1D's on Audiogon right now for $1500.

If the pair you're considering were local to me I would buy them. Give them a listen. You've got nothing to lose but the time spent. Even if you don't buy I'd like to know what you think of the "panel sound".

What blackraven said about the Maggy people is very true. Everyone who has dealt with Magneplanar says they are nice people.

[IBSTORMIN]

Not playfull 200RMS....real power ;-) Something like a Krell KMA or Mark Levinson ... big balls ;-)
I have two 200 wpc amps but they might not be up to your standards. An Onkyo Integra M-508 and their fully balanced Onkyo Integra M-588F. These sold in the 80's for $1200 and $2400. Might not be Krell but a step above Adcom. How does the Krell FPB compare to the KSA & KMA?

Delamination is when the voltage/current carrying wires lift from the mylar diaphragm. Magnepan sells a kit to re-glue the wires. This can and does happen to older Maggy's.
What active electronic crossover do you recommend?
If I can fix it myself without a lot of cost having the factory repair them, I just might be interested.

[JoeE SP9]

I have two 200 wpc amps but they might not be up to your standards. An Onkyo Integra M-508 and their fully balanced Onkyo Integra M-588F. These sold in the 80's for $1200 and $2400. Might not be Krell but a step above Adcom. How does the Krell FPB compare to the KSA & KMA?

What active electronic crossover do you recommend?
If I can fix it myself without a lot of cost having the factory repair them, I just might be interested.
I have no familiarity with Onkyo products. I mentioned Adcom because they have a reputation for being able to drive the worst loads imaginable. They worked on the original Apogee's. They were a true amp buster of a speaker. Bryston amps would be another good choice.

If the Tympani's need repair www.audiokarma.org (http://www.audiokarma.org) has several posters there who have a lot of experience with gluing the traces on Maggy's.

I would try the speakers with a single amp first. It may be all you need or want. There are lots of variables. Although my system is bi-amped I use a crossover point of 85Hz to drive my subs. I don't know what is recommended for Tympani's. Something tells me this is a little to low.

There are a couple of reviews on this site you might want ot check.

Below is a link to the complete Tympani 1D manual.
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/pix/mitchell/

[IBSTORMIN]

Below is a link to the complete Tympani 1D manual. Thanks for the manual!
The manual says "power handling" is 300 watts at 4ohms. My amps are rated 315 and 360 at 4 ohms. It says dynamic power at 2 ohms is 750 watts on the 588. Do I have too much power or is more better? There is a Krell FPB(Full Power Balanced)-200 on Ebay right now, that is why I was asking about the differences in Krell amps. My pre is balanced and was wondering if this would be a good choice.

[IBSTORMIN]

I have no familiarity with Onkyo products. I mentioned Adcom because they have a reputation for being able to drive the worst loads imaginable. They worked on the original Apogee's. They were a true amp buster of a speaker. Bryston amps would be another good choice.
Are you saying these speakers could take out my amp?

[E-Stat]

What type is it, how much power to drive properly, sound quality, best placement, known problems
The Tympani series was the original Magneplanar design that debuted in the early 70s. It was hearing a similar model in 1974 that made me a planar convert. I was struck at how natural they sounded and immediately decided I had to get some. As dipoles, placement becomes more critical because the room is effectively the enclosure. Most dipoles like to be placed a good distance away from the back wall for optimum results. It is possible that the wires have delaminated over time and may require a modernization service by Magnepan. Although the early models didn't have the exceptional ribbon tweeters as they do today, they nevertheless are still a world class speaker in my opinion. There is a Magepan user group website (MUG) that has tons of info about them found here. (http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/) Enjoy!



I have no familiarity with Onkyo products.
Actually, of all the Japanese manufacturers who focus on receivers, Onkyo makes some pretty decent sounding stuff.


I mentioned Adcom because they have a reputation for being able to drive the worst loads imaginable.
But Maggies of that vintage have a very benign almost purely resistive load - very unlike electrostats. Remember they were marketed and voiced with Audio Research tube amps. I first heard T-IIIs tri-amped with 75 watt / channel Audio Research D-76s. Sounded incredible.

rw

[blackraven]

You should have no problems driving the magnepans with your amps. I drove my 1.6's with a JVC 120wpc receiver (just to hear how they would sound) and they sounded pretty good. I used an Adcom 260wpc AVR and they sounded better at loud volumes. Now I drive mine with a 400 wpc Parasound amp and they sound great. And you can't have too much power with maggies. I asked one of the engineers at Magnepan about how much power is too much. His reply was that they will take all the clean power that you can give them.

[IBSTORMIN]

But Maggies of that vintage have a very benign almost purely resistive load - very unlike electrostats. Remember they were marketed and voiced with Audio Research tube amps. I first heard T-IIIs tri-amped with 75 watt / channel Audio Research D-76s. Sounded incredible.

rw Thanks to all for the help!
I asked the guy selling them what he has been powering them with. He says a 150 WPC Carver 722 receiver. I would think it can't be too difficult a load. I think I'm going to go listen Wednesday and buy them if I like the sound. I'll let you know.

[IBSTORMIN]

With my current equipment I have found an accuracy of placement on stage I only heard of but had never experienced myself. Instead of just hearing a singers voice her off center to the left, I can look directly at the spot where the singer was standing. That's how accurate I like it. I read in a post on another forum where people were naming their favorite all time speakers and this pair was mentioned as a "Wall of sound". That sounds neater than I can imagine, but after thinking about it - is it just sound coming from everywhere or is there placement accuracy also? I ask because I am going to listen to it with a receiver, which will probably not reveal it's true potential.

[blackraven]

Magnepans do WELL recorded vocals amazingly well to the point that you will think that the person singing is right in front of you. Acoustic music is another strength.

I would not worry about your Onkyo amp. The Maggies will sound just fine. They require a lot of clean power, especially if you like to listen at high volumes. With better quality amps you will get better resolution, deeper and punchier bass. You wont know any different unless you were doing an AB comparison between amps.

Just make sure you use a heavy guage speaker wire, 14g or better. I used 16g xp monster on my MMG's and they heated up at higher volumes. I use 10g with my MG 1.6QR's.

[JoeE SP9]

Are you saying these speakers could take out my amp?

Not at all. It seemed you had some concerns about amps that's why I mentioned Apogee's. As E-Stat has said the load that all Maggy's present is relatively benign although it's 4Ohms.

I've never owned any Onkyo product or a receiver from any manufacturer. So, I can't speak about what I have no knowledge of. I do have a friend that has always thought very highly of Onkyo.

[IBSTORMIN]

I would not worry about your Onkyo amp. The Maggies will sound just fine. They require a lot of clean power, especially if you like to listen at high volumes. With better quality amps you will get better resolution, deeper and punchier bass. You wont know any different unless you were doing an AB comparison between amps.
I would love to compare my 1993 built Integra dual mono fully balanced 70 lb stereo amp with a Krell in an AB comparison. Integra does not make anything this good today. Sad but true. I truly would like to hear what I might be missing. I would buy it if it sounded better, once I found a deal on it! :thumbsup:


Just make sure you use a heavy guage speaker wire, 14g or better. I used 16g xp monster on my MMG's and they heated up at higher volumes. I use 10g with my MG 1.6QR's.
Using 12 gauge already. Don't like anything Monster, at least what I've tried a few years ago wasn't worth the money.

[IBSTORMIN]

OK, I listened to them and brought them home, they look like new and have what I understand is rare black covers. When I got them home at 11pm after driving 40 miles with them in the back of my truck and storms rolling in, I was beat and just set them up in front of my other speakers to make sure they still worked. I was not impressed but they did work.
I had not explained to my wife what they were, I just told her I was going to look at a pair of speakers which she never has interest in. After seeing them because I asked her to hold the door for me, she sat down to listen which surprised me. I was even more surprised when she said they sounded really good. We both think they are just absolutely neat that a room divider provides sound. LOL
The next evening I got a chance to listen to them again and was still not impressed. They just did not sound as good as what I had been listening to, but still thought they were neater than sh't ! !
This morning I finally got a chance to pull my speakers out from behind them, set them 3' from the wall and configure them like the owner's manual says and now I AM impressed. Wall of sound that someone else had described them as is true. There is a slight loss of directionality because the sound is seperated into three panels with bass toward the inside, midrange in the middle and tweeters in the outer panel. Definitely need a sub for the real lows but still have more bass than I thought they would. I've still Gotta listen to all my CD's again!
They are in a corner of my basement. Although there is a staircase there the left side wall is non-existant for now which changes the sound from what you guys have said. The one thing I noticed is if I turn it up, I hear distortion. I have output meters on my 200 watt amp and it starts right about 50 watts output and gets worse as I turn it up. Is that the power problem you guys were talking about, is it possibly the delamination I have heard these suffer from, or that wall not being there? Any advice would be appreciated.

[JoeE SP9]

The bass from Maggy's may take some getting used to. It is not at all like the bass from a box. When operating and set up properly they should give decent response to around 40Hz.
They should not distort at the power levels you are hearing it. It is probably the delamination that was already mentioned. The wall or lack of would not cause distortion. It will cause a difference in the soundstage between left and right but not audible distortion.
You should give the people at Magnepan a call. I'm sure they will be helpful.

[IBSTORMIN]

The bass from Maggy's may take some getting used to. It is not at all like the bass from a box. When operating and set up properly they should give decent response to around 40Hz.
I actually like the sound of the bass, it's clean and goes lower than I expected.

They should not distort at the power levels you are hearing it. It is probably the delamination that was already mentioned. The wall or lack of would not cause distortion. It will cause a difference in the soundstage between left and right but not audible distortion.
You should give the people at Magnepan a call. I'm sure they will be helpful.
I found out the speakers are very revealing. What I was hearing, which I had never noticed with my other speakers was the grainy sound of a CD. When I put in one of my favorite DVD-A's the HDAD 192/24 version of Alan Parson's "I Robot" it was smooth as silk. I had my amp pumping out 150 watts and it was almost deafening but crystal clear! I'm HOOKED. The only thing I don't like is the three panel design, which spreads the sound out too much for pinpoint accuracy of stage placement. You can hear the location of an instrument move with the tone as it switches from panel to panel. That might be why they don't make a three panel design anymore!?

[JoeE SP9]

One of the caveats with Tympani's is that you need to sit a good distance away from them in order for the soundfield to become cohesive. 10 feet minimum is maybe OK 15 feet is better. They need a fairly good sized room to sound their best.
I'm glad to hear you like them. In another thread I mentioned that you either like the sound of panels or don't. If you do usually nothing else sounds right. For me its been panels since 1976.

[IBSTORMIN]

One of the caveats with Tympani's is that you need to sit a good distance away from them in order for the soundfield to become cohesive. 10 feet minimum is maybe OK 15 feet is better. They need a fairly good sized room to sound their best.
I'm glad to hear you like them. In another thread I mentioned that you either like the sound of panels or don't. If you do usually nothing else sounds right. For me its been panels since 1976.

I am 10 feet away, maybe I'll try more. I am going to listen to them for a few days more and then switch back to my Infinity Prelude P-FR's and see what I now think of them. Should be interesting.

Hey Blackraven! Did I do something to insult you? You stopped talking to me.

You guys do have me wondering about another amp...............Krell FBP?

[JoeE SP9]

Magnepan used to recommend and do all their demo's using Audio Research Corporation gear. Magnepan and Audio Research were very close when the Tympani series were in production. The best I've ever heard them sound was with ARC tube amps, ARC electronic crossover (they were bi-amped) and ARC SP-3 preamp.

[E-Stat]

I am 10 feet away, maybe I'll try more.
How have you configured panel placement? While its been - sheesh - thirty some years after I worked for a Maggie dealer who sold Tympanis, I seem to recall we got the best response with the tweeters inboard and the two bass panels arrayed in a bit of a "V" directed towards the listener. You have essentially several toe-in factors with these three panel models! If you have not already consulted the manual for placement considerations, I would certainly recommend doing so. They are available over at MUG here (http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/pix/index.html).

Ten feet should be ample for driver blending. Its the other variables you need to focus on.

rw

[blackraven]

On the Magnepan 1.6's, I believe they recommend the woofers on the inside and tweeters on the out side. Also try some toe in and place them only 6-8 feet apart.

Listen to some well recorded acoustic, piano and vocal music and you will be blown away by just how good they can sound.

[IBSTORMIN]

On the Magnepan 1.6's, I believe they recommend the woofers on the inside and tweeters on the out side. Also try some toe in and place them only 6-8 feet apart.

Listen to some well recorded acoustic, piano and vocal music and you will be blown away by just how good they can sound.

I always thought the Maggies would be very sharp. The only experience I have had with ribbons is in Infinity models and I always thought they were too harsh. These Maggies are smooth. I had been listening to a Dianna Krall DVD-A and was loving her mellow sexy voice on the Maggies. I switched back to the Preludes yesterday and my first thought was they were too bright! I let my ear adjust and found they were more detailed and had more stage placement just as I had heard before. What I lost was the warmness in her voice. She just didn't sound as sexy. The more I compare, the more I like the Maggies. When listening to rock, the Preludes win! I just need two systems now! ! ! !


How have you configured panel placement?

I think JoeE sent this already and I followed it placing the tweeters on the outside for better seperation. I have also built a sidewall where it was open before which helped a great deal. The manual is actually for the 1C with a note on the last page stating the differences in the 1D. The guy I bought them from didn't have the manual when I picked the speakers up but promised to mail it. I'm curious to see if it's different.

[Feanor]

I always thought the Maggies would be very sharp. The only experience I have had with ribbons is in Infinity models and I always thought they were too harsh. These Maggies are smooth.
...

Pardon my ignorance: do the 1D Maggies have ribbons? I had the impression that Maggies of that vintage did not.

[E-Stat]

I think JoeE sent this already and I followed it placing the tweeters on the outside for better seperation. I have also built a sidewall where it was open before which helped a great deal. The manual is actually for the 1C with a note on the last page stating the differences in the 1D. The guy I bought them from didn't have the manual when I picked the speakers up but promised to mail it. I'm curious to see if it's different.
Do you "vee" the bass panels? How much toe in do you use for the tweeter section? How much toe in do you use for the bass section? You'll note the pictorial diagrams involve multiple placement variables beyond just "tweeters-in" or "tweeters-out".

rw

[IBSTORMIN]

Do you "vee" the bass panels? How much toe in do you use for the tweeter section? How much toe in do you use for the bass section? You'll note the pictorial diagrams involve multiple placement variables beyond just "tweeters-in" or "tweeters-out".

rw

I set them up like the manual shows - Mid panel almost flat but slightly toed in, bass panel and tweeter panel toed in about 30 degrees.
Sort of like this:
tweeter panel .. \
......mid panel .. I
.....bass panel .. \

When you say vee the bass panels and you referring to the bass & mid? I know it was a pain for me but.....Can you draw it?

[IBSTORMIN]

Pardon my ignorance: do the 1D Maggies have ribbons? I had the impression that Maggies of that vintage did not.

No Bill, pardon MY ignorance! They do not have ribbons. I used the wrong term because I am still learning. What type are these Maggies?

Hey Bill, I see you have a Subsonic 5! I had a Subsonic 7 and sold it to a friend that wanted it. I've missed it ever since. BIG mistake to let it go!

[IBSTORMIN]

After listening to these speakers for several months I have learned alot. My amp is plenty to drive them to deafening volumes and there is no distortion I can hear from delamination, although some day I plan to uncover them and look. I received the 1D manual and realize I must have sounded like a fool, the guy I bought them from told me the three panels were bass/mid/tweet. As you guys said after I re-read, two panels are bass/mid and the third is the tweeter. Placement of speakers is critical. I have them set up as the 1D manual suggests, outer bass/mid perpendicular to and up against the wall, center bass/mid toed in slightly and the tweeter panel on the inside pointed to cross in the middle by aiming at the opposite ear. Stage placement is better this way but I found it is not as important as the realism these speakers present. The bass is probably going below 40Hz and on most music a sub is not necessary. They sound REAL!!!! My Infinities are in another room. Of course, now I want to try bi-amping. Suggestions on an active crossover, preferably used?

[E-Stat]

Placement of speakers is critical. I have them set up as the 1D manual suggests, outer bass/mid perpendicular to and up against the wall, center bass/mid toed in slightly and the tweeter panel on the inside pointed to cross in the middle by aiming at the opposite ear.
That's what I meant by "veeing" or angling the panels. Such is critical for best image.


The bass is probably going below 40Hz and on most music a sub is not necessary. They sound REAL!!!! My Infinities are in another room.
Their bass quality and timbre have always been strong points.


Suggestions on an active crossover, preferably used?
The classic answer was the Audio Research EC-2 seen here. (http://www.arcdb.ws/EC2/EC2.html) They do come up from time to time on Audiogon and Ebay. A popular current model is made by Marchand here. (http://www.marchandelec.com/specials.html) Bi-amping can be advantageous, but it also expensive. I would opt for a better amp first.

rw

[JoeE SP9]

After listening to these speakers for several months I have learned alot. My amp is plenty to drive them to deafening volumes and there is no distortion I can hear from delamination, although some day I plan to uncover them and look. I received the 1D manual and realize I must have sounded like a fool, the guy I bought them from told me the three panels were bass/mid/tweet. As you guys said after I re-read, two panels are bass/mid and the third is the tweeter. Placement of speakers is critical. I have them set up as the 1D manual suggests, outer bass/mid perpendicular to and up against the wall, center bass/mid toed in slightly and the tweeter panel on the inside pointed to cross in the middle by aiming at the opposite ear. Stage placement is better this way but I found it is not as important as the realism these speakers present. The bass is probably going below 40Hz and on most music a sub is not necessary. They sound REAL!!!! My Infinities are in another room. Of course, now I want to try bi-amping. Suggestions on an active crossover, preferably used?

A good electronic crossover is not inexpensive. The tube unit that Marchand makes is a nice piece. Those Tympani's may make you go for tubes. You will hear how good they can sound on the 1D's. E-Stat may also be right about a better amp.

[IBSTORMIN]

Bi-amping can be advantageous, but it also expensive. I would opt for a better amp first.

rw

It now makes sense, it probably would be cheaper to try another amp first, although I already have another 200WPC amp. Maybe I am being stubborn, but I really am amazed by how my balanced Integra amp sounds and wish I could comare it to what you call better amps to see if they really are, before I spend the money.
On the crossover, does it have to be active? I almost bought a used pair of crossovers from a pair of MG III's for sale on E-bay. Went for around $170. Would that have worked? How do the MG III's compare to the 1D? I understand they have a true ribbon tweeter instead of a Quasi and they were replaced by the 3.3. Ever heard them?

[E-Stat]

It now makes sense, it probably would be cheaper to try another amp first, although I already have another 200WPC amp. Maybe I am being stubborn, but I really am amazed by how my balanced Integra amp sounds and wish I could comare it to what you call better amps to see if they really are, before I spend the money.
That is always the best case to hear components in your own system first. The Onkyo is a decent amp, but lacks the openness and poise of better ones. Even the double Advents in my vintage system benefit from using a Threshold Stasis amp. A Stasis 2 would be magnificent on the Tympanis.


I almost bought a used pair of crossovers from a pair of MG III's for sale on E-bay. Went for around $170. Would that have worked?
No, as the the MGIII is a three way design with different crossover point(s).


How do the MG III's compare to the 1D? I understand they have a true ribbon tweeter instead of a Quasi and they were replaced by the 3.3. Ever heard them?
Oh, yes I am familiar with the IIIs. It would be a mixed bag. The top end of the III would be arguably better. The overall frequency balance and overall imaging ability, however, would not be. I find the Tympanis to have unmatched response from mid bass upwards to the lower highs. If you recall, one of Harry Pearson's reference systems way back when was the QRS/ID system using the QRS ribbon tweeters. The 1D handled most of the range.

rw

[IBSTORMIN]

That is always the best case to hear components in your own system first. The Onkyo is a decent amp, but lacks the openness and poise of better ones. Even the double Advents in my vintage system benefit from using a Threshold Stasis amp. A Stasis 2 would be magnificent on the Tympanis.rw

Is the Stasis2 balanced? What is the difference between it and the Stasis1? Audiogon shows them both released 1978 with the 1 selling for more.

You seem familiar with alot of equipment, are you familiar with the 1993 Onkyo Integra M-588F dual mono amp I have? I know this amp sounds cleaner hooked up balanced.

[E-Stat]

Is the Stasis2 balanced? My pre is fully balanced. What is the difference between it and the Stasis1? Audiogon shows them both released 1978 with the 1 selling for more.
No, you would need to advance in time a bit to the S/500 for balanced operation. The Stasis One was a bit of overkill as a monoblock with seventy-two 150 watt output devices for 200 watts output. The Stasis Two only had forty-eight 150 watt devices for 200 watts for two channels. According to Harry Pearson, the Stasis Two sounded better.


You seem familiar with alot of equipment, are you familiar with the 1993 Onkyo Integra M-588F dual mono amp I have? I know this amp sounds cleaner hooked up balanced.
While Onkyo has always focused primarily on mid-fi receivers, they have made some decent separates in the past. Never at the level of the best American gear IMHO. Use of carbon resistors instead of metal film? Power consumption of 550W for 400 watt output and tiny heat sinks means that it is not biased very heavily into class A. Speaker switching on a high end power amp?

588 (http://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-588-e.html)

rw

[IBSTORMIN]

While Onkyo has always focused primarily on mid-fi receivers, they have made some decent separates in the past. Never at the level of the best American gear IMHO. Use of carbon resistors instead of metal film? Power consumption of 550W for 400 watt output and tiny heat sinks means that it is not biased very heavily into class A. Speaker switching on a high end power amp?

588 (http://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-588-e.html)

rw

I thank you for your honesty. What do you think of BAT & Krell?

[IBSTORMIN]

one of Harry Pearson's reference systems way back when was the QRS/ID system using the QRS ribbon tweeters. The 1D handled most of the range.

rw

How was the QRS integrated with the 1D? Is there a tweeter in production today that could be added in a similar way? Is this worth doing or should I just look at a newer pair of maggies like the 3.x series that already has a ribbon tweeter?

[E-Stat]

I thank you for your honesty. What do you think of BAT & Krell?
Balanced Audio makes some truly great tube stuff. Victor Khomenko was the first to use both the 6H30 "supertube" and the big 6C33 triodes (used in MiG-25 Foxbat radars). His family worked at the Svetlana tube factory in St. Petersburg so he literally grew up knowing about tubes. They use first rate components including oil filled caps and are zero feedback designs.

Krell is also very well made. I met Dan D'Agostino back in '75 when he was the rep for Dayton-Wright electrostats and Dunlap Clarke amps. That experience taught him the value of designing high current amps that can drive any kind of load. The big Krells are among few amps that can drive a 1 ohm load and not shut down or blow up. While I have only heard a couple, they strike me as being a bit dark and sterile for my tastes. On the other hand, some might say that of my VTL amps as well. :)

rw

[E-Stat]

How was the QRS integrated with the 1D?
He simply used the 1D as the bass section mated with the QRS ribbons for the top with an active crossover.


Is there a tweeter in production today that could be added in a similar way? Is this worth doing or should I just look at a newer pair of maggies like the 3.x series that already has a ribbon tweeter?
It is probably not worth doing for the cost required. I would wait and hear the 3.6r or the 20.1. I very seriously considered buying the 20.1s after hearing them at Seacliff. The Sound Lab electrostats are more coherent and do better at low levels.

rw

[IBSTORMIN]

E-stat, What do you think of Martin Logan?

[E-Stat]

E-stat, What do you think of Martin Logan?
Clearly, M-L is the widest producer of electrostatic speakers, but I confess that I've always preferred full range models. Ironically, the very first ML, the CLS was arguably full range although a tad lacking in the bottom. The current CLZ definitely requires a separate sub. For me, the beauty of electrostatics is not just having a nice clear upper range, but providing seamless top to bottom coherency. I've yet to hear a hybrid stat sound truly coherent. Virtually all of them use monopole woofers. You have The Bass and The Rest.

BTW, that was the secret to the QRS/1D system. The 1D panels were far closer in response and radiation pattern to the Infinity ribbons than the cone woofers found in the original. That was my beef about the mighty Infinity IRS system. Big, clear and powerful with woofers that belonged to a different system.

rw