How to "politely" criticize someone's system.

[JoeE SP9]

How do you tell someone their system sounds like crap because they have too much/little bass/treble and/or have over equalized?
You're being asked because they have heard and were impressed by your system.

[markw]

Since it seems they did somewhat, even indirectly, ask for pointers, it's not like you're bludgeoning them over the head with unsolicited criticism.

Since they say they are impressed with your system, when discussing stereos or music and he again references your system, perhaps subtle suggestions like "have you tried turning down the treble a little", or some such might help. I would of course wait for the subject to come up naturally, though.

In either case, if they get defensive then I guess they weren't really that impressed with your system and were just being polite and I would just back off.

[Auricauricle]

It's his system and he has to live with it. If pushed, "To my ears, there's too much....and to little....What are your ears telling you?" If he's a stick in the mud, you have nowhere to go. If he's willing to listen, give him concrete evidence and let him evaluate on his own with a nudge and a wink.

[GMichael]

Maybe you don't have to tell them that their system sucks at all. You could just make suggestions on how they could make improvements. If they are willing to listen, you're good to go. If they don't want to listen, then, you're good to go.

[Groundbeef]

It's an old trick.

Rephrase their quetions back to them, and use their own statemtents.

Q. Hey, I was really impressed with your system (insert name), can you help me with my setup?

A. Well (insert name), what did you like most about my system? The sound, layout, etc?

They respond with what they like best, or simply say "all of it".

Then answer accordingly and again, base your answer on YOUR system. Something like:

A. Well (insert name) I achieve optimal bass levels by XXXXXX . This is non-threatening, as they have already said they like your system. By default, it is differnt than their system, but they can then use YOUR setup to affect theirs.

Its all about showing them how you did yours, so they can mimic it at home.

If they ask direct comments about their setup, start with positive:

Well (insert name), I really like how you set (something in their setup) up here. It gives the sound (something positive); another option would be to move (x) to here to really cause (x a better effect).

[JoeE SP9]

BTW:
This was not a hypothetical question. Has this ever happened to any of you guys?

[Kevio]

Offer to adjust their system to sound more like yours. If they don't like it, you can always restore everything to where it was.

I've been given this opportunity a few times. Frequently one finds that you're dealing with a crap system and reasonable settings just make the system's weaknesses more apparent. Many of these home theater-in-a-box systems, for instance, are underpowered and have crap bass. Cranking the treble at least plays into their strengths.

[GMichael]

BTW:
This was not a hypothetical question. Has this ever happened to any of you guys?

Yeah, but how can I make a $200 HTiB system sound good with a few tweeks? He asked me about how he could feel the explosions like at my house. I suggested a different sub. He replied with, "why would I spend more on the sub than I spent on my whole system?" I told him that there is just so much bass that you can get out of a 6" woofer. He said, "never mind." If he couldn't get that same sound for a couple hundred bucks, then it's not worth it to him.

[atomicAdam]

It helps obviously, if you are good friends.

Just this past two weeks a musician friend on mine got new monitor JBL LSR 4328 - we went listening together, and I really loved the Dynaudio BM6 (I believe that is them $1700MSRP) - we spent hours over beer going back and forth and this and that. He went with the JBL for his needs. Got them in his room, set up, I can't deal. Way too much mid range for me.

But seeing as that we've been friends since high-school it was pretty easy to just say what we thought in a tactful manner because we know that is the best way to come to understand what and why we like this or don't like that.

I suppose, the best answer though, would be to just be polite. Unless it is RnT - being rude seems to work best with him. :biggrin5:

[Auricauricle]

"Wow, that sibilance is just incredible! The way those cymbals zzing! I just can't stand it!"

[E-Stat]

Rephrase their quetions back to them, and use their own statemtents.
It can be very helpful in sales situations, too. :)

Another non-threatening question might be "What are you trying to achieve with {fill in the blank}?

rw

[GMichael]

It can be very helpful in sales situations, too. :)

Another non-threatening question might be "What are you trying to achieve with {fill in the blank}?

rw
OT,

Way way back, when I was still in school, I wrote a program that would do just that. It was supposed to be a psychologist program. If you said that you hated your mother, it would ask you why you hated your mother. Because she used to beat me. Why did she used to beat you? Because I was bad. Why were you bad. etc...
It was annoying as h'll.

[atomicAdam]

OT,

Way way back, when I was still in school, I wrote a program that would do just that. It was supposed to be a psychologist program. If you said that you hated your mother, it would ask you why you hated your mother. Because she used to beat me. Why did she used to beat you? Because I was bad. Why were you bad. etc...
It was annoying as h'll.

I knew a girl who used to do that - I didn't know her for long though.

[Auricauricle]

"Resistance is futile...!"

[GMichael]

Seven of 9.........

[JoeE SP9]

Seven of 9.........

I'll take one. Am I first in line?

[Chris Friedrick]

I've spent much time educating myself, and doing trial and error, so I would suggest buying the exact same things I have if You like the sound of my system. It's all about match ups, and what You are willing to spend to acheive good sound. That is what I would tell someone. If they had a crappy home theatre in a box, I would explain to them how you get what you pay for, at least to a point.

[pixelthis]

I just tell em that I cant make a decent hambuger from a turd, which means
that they sure can't.
I like to make sure a person is dedicated, this is an expensive hobby, you have to sell a kidney just for middlin results, spectecular takes your first born chilld(but daddy, I dont wanna go to eastern europe!)
For most a HTIB is fine, so I say get one that resembles a receiver at least, like the onkyo offering, or the Yammy.:1:

[noddin0ff]

I just tell em that I cant make a decent hambuger from a turd, which means

Blunt, It's the new tact !

[Groundbeef]

Blunt, It's the new tact !

I think Pixel confused the OP's request for a polite way to help a friend with "How to be an asshat".

[GMichael]

I just tell em that I cant make a decent hambuger from a turd, which means
that they sure can't.
I like to make sure a person is dedicated, this is an expensive hobby, you have to sell a kidney just for middlin results, spectecular takes your first born chilld(but daddy, I dont wanna go to eastern europe!)
For most a HTIB is fine, so I say get one that resembles a receiver at least, like the onkyo offering, or the Yammy.:1:

I think that new leaf you turned over is fluttering.
Well, just a little.

[GMichael]

I'll take one. Me too.


Am I first in line? I'll guess, no.

[Auricauricle]

"Seven of nine"?

Huh?

[GMichael]

"Seven of nine"?

Huh?

Just a taste.

[Hyfi]

I just had quite the opposite thing happen. Someone I recently met from PE came over for an afternoon of music and entertainment. We had been to their place a few weeks ago and he has a very nice system of the top Cambridge Integrated and one of their better CDPs along with Polk LS-15s (2nd from their top). Nice laid back warm sound but I never got a chance to hear it cranked up that day.

So Monday, after they were over Sunday, I got an email from the guy....

" We had a great time. I loved the beer, and the food. The @@@@ was pretty potent but very good. Your stereo was possibly the best system I've ever heard in my lifetime. It was a real joy for me being the music fan that I am.

I played the Gov't Mule song and Yoke Shire tune as soon as I got home to compare. Now granted, I wasn't near as stoned, but I could tell a big difference in the mid-range as you noted, not that mine sounds bad. That's what made it shocking: that you could improve something measurably when that in itself sounds good. However, I was kind of encouraged when mine didn't suck too bad compared to yours (I was thinking that hearing your stereo would cost me serious cash). My bass was a little better but a definitely muddier."


So here is a guy that reacts opposite than what the OP encountered. I hate when you are asked for advice and then hear " "never mind." If I couldn't get that same sound for a couple hundred bucks, then it's not worth it to me."

[Auricauricle]

Thanks, GM...Just what I needed: Another reason to teleport outta here at the earliest opportunity!

I read you loud and clear, Hy: Half of those looking for advice are looking for confirmation; the other half are just dumping more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere!

[pixelthis]

I just had quite the opposite thing happen. Someone I recently met from PE came over for an afternoon of music and entertainment. We had been to their place a few weeks ago and he has a very nice system of the top Cambridge Integrated and one of their better CDPs along with Polk LS-15s (2nd from their top). Nice laid back warm sound but I never got a chance to hear it cranked up that day.

So Monday, after they were over Sunday, I got an email from the guy....

" We had a great time. I loved the beer, and the food. The @@@@ was pretty potent but very good. Your stereo was possibly the best system I've ever heard in my lifetime. It was a real joy for me being the music fan that I am.

I played the Gov't Mule song and Yoke Shire tune as soon as I got home to compare. Now granted, I wasn't near as stoned, but I could tell a big difference in the mid-range as you noted, not that mine sounds bad. That's what made it shocking: that you could improve something measurably when that in itself sounds good. However, I was kind of encouraged when mine didn't suck too bad compared to yours (I was thinking that hearing your stereo would cost me serious cash). My bass was a little better but a definitely muddier."


So here is a guy that reacts opposite than what the OP encountered. I hate when you are asked for advice and then hear " "never mind." If I couldn't get that same sound for a couple hundred bucks, then it's not worth it to me."

well, HIS SYSTEM WILL NEVER SOUND better than yours of course, but you would be surprized at how good it will sound with some decent speakers.
Mathew Polk sold his soul to the mass market, and his stuff stinks on ice.
Compare his prefab crap to his earlier efforts.
GET YOU FRIEND TO INVEST IN A DECENT SET OF BOOKSHELVES,
I think the results will be somewhat miraculous
"2nd from the top" crap is still crap.:1:

[pixelthis]

I think Pixel confused the OP's request for a polite way to help a friend with "How to be an asshat".


That is a polite reaction.
My normal reaction would be to go to the car , get a tire tool, and go to work on
"improving" his system.
Its a great test of dedication tho, when you sadly tell a friend that his HTIB
needs to have a road flare (lit of course) stuck into the DVD tray and then the entire thing pushed off of a convienent rooftop, and that its going to take the cost of a decent used car to get something listenable.
This is HT and high end audio, it aint for sissies.
You are not doing anybody a favor by pretending a decent system is within reach.
However if you can convince him to put out a grand or so he can have something
that is quite listenable, probably quite suited to his plebian tastes.
And "new leaf"?
All I said was LETTUCE proceed!!:1:

[Hyfi]

well, HIS SYSTEM WILL NEVER SOUND better than yours of course, but you would be surprized at how good it will sound with some decent speakers.
Mathew Polk sold his soul to the mass market, and his stuff stinks on ice.
Compare his prefab crap to his earlier efforts.
GET YOU FRIEND TO INVEST IN A DECENT SET OF BOOKSHELVES,
I think the results will be somewhat miraculous
"2nd from the top" crap is still crap.:1:

Your preaching to the choir! Polk-Bose, is there a difference?

It does sound better than most peoples rigs but that is the Cambridge gear.

[JoeE SP9]

I love it when someone hears my ESL's and asks, "can I get some speakers that sound like that in bookshelf size?".

[Auricauricle]

Now watch yer blastin' Polk. I think his early stuff, before he sold his soul, is pert near respectable. I listen to a pair o' 7c's now and find 'em quite listenable, thank you!

[Hyfi]

Now watch yer blastin' Polk. I think his early stuff, before he sold his soul, is pert near respectable. I listen to a pair o' 7c's now and find 'em quite listenable, thank you!

The real early Bose speakers were also respectable and then fell by the Wave side.

I just don't lump either of them in with B&W, Dynaudio, JM Labs-Focal..........

[Auricauricle]

We-e-ll no, I wouldn't either, fer that matter....Mebbe you'll get lucky and find a pair! ;)

[JoeE SP9]

We-e-ll no, I wouldn't either, fer that matter....Mebbe you'll get lucky and find a pair! ;)
What are you trying to say about Hyfi? :blush2: I have it on good authority that he was born with a pair.:prrr:

[GMichael]

And they call me the perv around here?

[Auricauricle]

I didn't step into that one! No-o-o-o-o...Aw-w-w-w-w-w!

[Doc Sage]

You don't...unless you are asking to do so and then do it very lightly.

A few of years ago, I was visiting an aquainance that could not stop stating that his stereo was the best around. At that time he had a 60's vintage Pioneer amp and a pair of low price three way (10" woofer) speakers. I went along with him.

A little while later he was at my place and we had time to listen to a few tunes on my system, at the time a simple Luxman amp (hybrid) and a better Energy stand mounted monitors (6" woofer). The experience must have an effect on him for he upgraded his system to the point where all of us would drool at the sight.

Educate, do not critize.

Doc Sage

[JoeE SP9]

I didn't step into that one! No-o-o-o-o...Aw-w-w-w-w-w!
Southampton is almost a Philly suburb. Us homeboys, we gotta stick together. Besides I once had a girlfriend that lived very near Southampton. She lived in a place named Bryn Gweled. That "G" word is probably misspelled. I'm working phonetically here.

Back to the topic:
Doc Sage; I frequently have people bragging to me about how fantastic their Circuit City rack system is. After hearing my rig they almost always start talking about "upgrading". My "Stats" get the most attention. A few have brought their wives. Opening comments from the ladies are usually something like "They're awfully big" or "Why are they in the middle of the floor?"
No big panels for those guys!

[Doc Sage]

/\/\/\/\/\/\

Yes, Sir. The "wife factor" is sometime hard to live with. I live alone and my speaker system takes the most precious cubic inches in my humble living room. I had more then once a lady mentioning that "those boxes are very big", just simple floor standing tower, Joseph Audio RM 25's but they always add that the sound IS VERY GOOD. On the other hand the husband/boyfriend always comment on the wood finish, few ever see good veneer work. Interesting difference of views from the different sexes.

Got my girlfriend a small system last Xmas, a simple Denon combi unit with some small monitor and a 8" sub (Paradign's). She always want to hide the monitors behind a plant or a displayed item like a ceramic vase. She does not appreciate that a speaker looks like it looks for a reason and that it should be free of obstacle for better sound quality.

Doc Sage

[pixelthis]

And they call me the perv around here?

I call em like I sees' em pretty boy.
AS for Polk the grandeur of his earlier stufff only emphasises his slip into mass
market whoredom. His earlier efforts were really nice, serious gear.
Everybody knows he has slipped.:1:

[theebadone]

(politely) Tell him there are other places to buy audio equipment besides k mart

[GMichael]

(politely) Tell him there are other places to buy audio equipment besides k mart
So, an Ipod is not "the best" source available?

[Auricauricle]

Right as always, Pix!

Tell 'im to upgrade to a reel to reel and get a belt to strap on the back if portability is an issue...

[pixelthis]

Right as always, Pix!

Tell 'im to upgrade to a reel to reel and get a belt to strap on the back if portability is an issue...

Always wanted one of those but couldn't justify it
Speaking of which, just when is Pioneer coming out with the long promised
analog reel to reel that is supposed to tap into the analog market, analog
without the limitations of records?
DON'T tease with stuff you will never deliver on, Pioneer!
Thats what women are for.:1:

[Auricauricle]

Bad moon tonight....