Help! Which Receiver is better and Watts Question

[xplatinum]

I'm a complete audio noob :)

About a year ago I bought a Samsung 40" LCD 1080i screen that came with 5.1 speakers and a HT-TQ72 receiver (http://origin.samsung.com/ca/products/hometheatres/hometheatres/ht_tq72txac.asp?page=Specifications) (1000w)

Last week I bought a Sony BDP-S550 Blue-Ray (https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665368407) player and a new receiver, Yamaha HTR-6230 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028494&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) (500w)

I was planning on putting my Samsung Receiver (http://origin.samsung.com/ca/products/hometheatres/hometheatres/ht_tq72txac.asp?page=Specifications) upstairs to listen to music (no TV) and put the Yamaha Receiver (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028494&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) downstairs (w/ the Samsung 5.1 speakers) with the LCD and the BR player (https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665368407).

Would that make any sense ?
Is the Samsung receiver HTIB better than the Yamaha I just bought ?
How would the audio sound if I plug the 1000w 5.1 speakers into the 500w receiver ?
Should I get a refund for the Yamaha and put extra money for more watts ?

Please help !

[3db]

A few things you should know about power ratings

a.) Manufacturers of receivers, espcailly HTIB incorrectly sum the theoretical outputs per channel along with the subwoofer's supposed output power to get this ridiculosu high number. I say theorecticall becuase most of these units are really cheaply built and in no way can they output that much power at the same time to all channels. The power supplies aren't big enough to supply that much power.

b.) Lift the Samsung recevier and lift the Yamaha receiver. My guess that the Yamaha weigh substantially more than the Samsung. Thats bwecuase the power supply in the Yamaha is much bigger and more capable of supplying high power to your speakers than the Samsung. Keep the Yamaha. Its way more capable as a reciver than the Samsung.

c.) Also most speakers in HTIB cannot handle alot of power so you do risk damaging your speakers with the Yamaha if you turn it up too loud.

Please don't read this as being against HTIB. They have their purpose. Generally however, one can get a better system by purchasing seperates rather than a HTIB and here are the reasons why.
a.) You can purchase speakers from companies who just build speakers. They know their stuff and the design dollars are spent on the research of making better speakers as opposed to spreading it amongst speakers and other electronics of HTIBs.
b.) You can choose a receiver that better matches the power requirements of your speakers. These receivers use industry standard connections to hookup other compoenensts such as speakers and other electronics. They do not use proprietary connections for speakers or other components. The non HTIB receivers also have more inputs and more outputs so that you can grow your system via other source components. With HTIB your severely restricted to the number of inputs you can get. The power supplies of seperate receivers are also of a much higher qualtiy, larger cpacity which gives you more freedo min choosing speakers you like the sound off.

I hope this helps





I'm a complete audio noob :)

About a year ago I bought a Samsung 40" LCD 1080i screen that came with 5.1 speakers and a HT-TQ72 receiver (http://origin.samsung.com/ca/products/hometheatres/hometheatres/ht_tq72txac.asp?page=Specifications) (1000w)

Last week I bought a Sony BDP-S550 Blue-Ray (https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665368407) player and a new receiver, Yamaha HTR-6230 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028494&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) (500w)

I was planning on putting my Samsung Receiver (http://origin.samsung.com/ca/products/hometheatres/hometheatres/ht_tq72txac.asp?page=Specifications) upstairs to listen to music (no TV) and put the Yamaha Receiver (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028494&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) downstairs (w/ the Samsung 5.1 speakers) with the LCD and the BR player (https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665368407).

Would that make any sense ?
Is the Samsung receiver HTIB better than the Yamaha I just bought ?
How would the audio sound if I plug the 1000w 5.1 speakers into the 500w receiver ?
Should I get a refund for the Yamaha and put extra money for more watts ?

Please help !

[bfalls]

You don't list the Samsung model number, so I can't check the specs. However many HTIB amps and speakers are an integrated design. Many rate their speakers as lower impedance (3-4ohms), which may account for the exaggerated power specs. Watts don't always relate to volume, since a lower impedance will provide less volume at the same power.

You purchased a Yamaha, which designs most of their receivers to handle low impedance loads. Try the Samsung speakers on the Yamaha, but check after a short time to ensure the speakers aren't causing the receiver it to heat up. Perform the same check using the Samsung receiver with different speakers. I'm guessing if there is a problem, it will be with the Samsung receiver and speaker combo.

[xplatinum]

You don't list the Samsung model number, so I can't check the specs. However many HTIB amps and speakers are an integrated design. Many rate their speakers as lower impedance (3-4ohms), which may account for the exaggerated power specs. Watts don't always relate to volume, since a lower impedance will provide less volume at the same power.

You purchased a Yamaha, which designs most of their receivers to handle low impedance loads. Try the Samsung speakers on the Yamaha, but check after a short time to ensure the speakers aren't causing the receiver it to heat up. Perform the same check using the Samsung receiver with different speakers. I'm guessing if there is a problem, it will be with the Samsung receiver and speaker combo.

The Samsung receiver is the HT-TQ72 that I linked :)

3db: very informative reply, that post answered alot of my concerns.

Should I get amp better than the yamaha ? Like one notch higher ? The Yamaha cost me 300$ CND, I'm willing to put 200$ more if needed. Here are the receivers I was looking at

Denon AVR-689 499$ (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10109407&catid=20313)
Yamaha HTR-6260B 599$ (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=FR&sku_id=0926INGFS10123058&catid=20313)


Here's the specs of the 5.1 speakers that came with the Samsung HTIB HT-TQ72. Specs from Samsung.com

Front 140W*2
Center 280W
Rear 140W*2
Sub woofer 175*320*381 (im guessing thats the dimensions)

[JeffKnob]

I hate to tell you but that Yamaha won't be putting out the wattage it tells you either. I used to have a Yamaha RXV1400 it was rated to 110Wx7. After some research, I would be shocked if it actually put out 40Wx7. Your Samsung HTIB is going to be much worse than that. I bought an Onkyo TX-SR606 to replace my Yamaha. Even though it is rated at 90Wx7 I know from a test done by Home Theater Magazine that this model will put out around 80Wx7. This is about double that my Yamaha would do and I noticed a difference. The Onkyo was half the price of the Yamaha too!

If it were me I would return the Yamaha. You could probably find somewhere that has the Onkyo for about $300 at this point since the new model has just come out. You can spend the extra money on some nicer speakers. Obviously the sky is the limit when it comes to getting quality speakers. Here are a few all in one packages that would sound better than the Samsungs and still keep you within a budget.

Dayton 5.1 Home Theater Package with 8" Powered Subwoofer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-692

Dayton 5.1 Home Theater Package with 10" Powered Subwoofer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-694

Dayton 5.1 Home Theater Package with 12" Powered Subwoofer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-696

That is just my 2 cents...

[pixelthis]

If one has to go upstairs take the Yammy, the Samsung is better suited to HT, the Yammy
to music.
And yes todays "power ratings" are, as the Brits would say, "silly silly silly"!
Its all marketing, really. They know that at most, your receiver will be putting out 5 to 7
watts, anything else will be like a 747 landing in your living room.
So your receiver can put out this power...for about a minute.
NAD and HARMON KARDON are suffering a few quality control issues now, but god bless
em, they put out realistic power ratings, backed by more robust power supplies.
Of course the great unwashed say, "40 wpc? PHOOEY!"
This is why serious audiophiles laugh at receiver power specs, they have real
power amps with Torodial transformers that look like they were boosted from the mother ship, hooked to capacitors that could hold a gallon of oil
PLUG THESE IN AND THE LIGHTS DIM AT THE GAS STATION DOWN THE STREET.
2ND law of thermodynamics, no such thing as a free lunch.
I have been trying to climb the wall and get outta the receiver ghetto for years,
at least hook my receiver to a decent amp, but some woman is always wanting money.
A lot on this board POO POO a HTIB , but truth is that the receiver is really just a step up the food chain, although they do tend to have a better front end(like Salma Hyak) and
their output stages tend to be discrete (seperate parts) instead of "amps on a chip"
like most HTIB'S.
The BEST receiver as far as amps go.?
Onkyo or their lexus brand...Integra.
A company that makes serious power amps, like Marantz(if they're still in business)
should have decent receivers also.
But for most normal (non crazy) HT fans who have less important things like wives
and house payments a receiver is fine.
Just the modern equivalent of the "Magnavox" with plastic woodgrain that Sheryl Crow
sang about on her first Album.
LET the brickbats fly.:1:

[zepman1]

Good advice given so far. The Yamaha is without a doubt going to be a more capable receiver than the Samsung. I would not spend anymore money on a receiver before upgrading the speakers as those are the weakest link right now. If you are on a budget that Yamaha should do just fine. You can upgrade later if you want more features like True HD and DTS Master processing and more power. The Onkyo 606 can be had for $350-$400 and has everything you need and more. But it would not noticeably improve anything with those Samsung speakers.

Upgrade the speakers first looking for speakers made by a "speaker company" not an electronics company like Samsung, Sony etc. The Dayton speaker package mentioned before might be a good place to look. I have some Dayton in-wall speakers that sound incredible for the money. I have no doubt they would be a significant upgrade from what you have now. And Parts Express has a great return policy if you don't like them. If you are in the market what is your budget? There may be more options.

Good luck.

[xplatinum]

Thanks for all the input guys :)

Yesterday I finally decided to return the Yamaha HTR-6230 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028494&CTID=5000400) (299$) for the HTR-6260B (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028502&CTID=5000400) (on sale at 599$ instead of 699$ CND)

I have 400$ CND to put on front speakers. I'm returning my Harman and Kardon ipod dock (350$)... so the speakers HAVE to be bought from Best Buy.

I'm currently looking at Klipsch F2 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10074986&catid=20322&logon=&langid=EN) loudspeakers (200$ each) or Precision Acoustics HD45 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10101493&catid=20322) (200$ each).

edit: I'm thinking of investing some more money and get the F3's for 600$/pair

Which one should I get ? Thanks in advance

[zepman1]

Not a big fan of Klipsch myself, and never heard the other one. I haven't heard the new models, but I would probably prefer one of the Polk offerings to what you have listed. But to be honest, I have never heard a speaker at Best Buy that I liked that much, except when the used to carry Athena.

That said, I am sure the Klipsch offering will be night and day better than the Samsungs you were using.

[BadAssJazz]

The thing that I hated about being a newb (and in many ways, I'm still a newb) was that I lacked a point of reference. Like many others, I was familiar with brands found in the local store. Back then, Macy's carried the "top end" gear, so that's where we went. I sampled JVC, Kenwood, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony and thought that I had experienced the pinnacle of audio fidelity. Boy, was I wrong.

If it is in anyway humanly possible for you to go out and hear, say, B&W (Bowers and Wilkins) or Proac or Audio Physics or any number of upper mid-tier and above speaker brands -- strictly to establish a baseline -- and then go back and audition the Klipsch or Precision Audio speakers, do it. It's important to train your ear, so that you know exactly what you should hear, and more importantly, what you're missing with the Klipsch or Precision Acoustics.

And if I HAD to buy speakers from BB, and my only choices were Klipsch, Infinity, JBL or Precision Acoustics, I'd audition all of them and keep the brand that transported me as close to my new point of reference as possible.

[markw]

There's a whole world out there (even in Canada) that sells some prime cuts at good prices and, IMNSHO, yu're looking at chuck steaks.

You might state what you can afford to spend on however many speakers you want and solicit suggestions. i.e "I have x $ and want two front speakers, or a surround system, or as surrou nd system and a subwoofer.

[xplatinum]

Thanks for all the replies and input guys.

I just came back with my pair of speakers to go alongside my amp.

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-6260 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028502&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) (Paid: 549$ CND, worth 700$ CND)
Speakers: Klipsch RF-62 (http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-62.aspx) (700$/pair, worth 1200$/pair CND)

What do you guys think ? I finally decided to dish out some more money on the speakers. The F3 were 600$ for both (regular price), now i have these 2 worth 1200$.

In the end I think I got a pretty good deal for the whole package, considering my budget.

[xplatinum]

-double post-

sorry, please delete.

[3db]

Congradulations. If your happy with the Klipsch sound, good for you. Some people hate Klipsh and others love Klipsch because of the horn. Some say its to bright but other people like it. I tend not to like them but those are my ears, not yours. Everyone hears differently. What I would do is listen for as long as you can to them and if you feel yourself becomming fatigued, its because of the inherent brightness of horns. If thats the case, see if you can't trade them in for these;

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10079847&catid=20322

If however, you don't feel like your getting tired, keep on rocking my friend. :)

Personally I do think Klipsch and tube amps would make an awesome combination. Never heard the two connected together but I sure would love to try it.


Thanks for all the replies and input guys.

I just came back with my pair of speakers to go alongside my amp.

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-6260 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028502&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) (Paid: 549$ CND, worth 700$ CND)
Speakers: Klipsch RF-62 (http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-62.aspx) (700$/pair, worth 1200$/pair CND)

What do you guys think ? I finally decided to dish out some more money on the speakers. The F3 were 600$ for both (regular price), now i have these 2 worth 1200$.

In the end I think I got a pretty good deal for the whole package, considering my budget.

[3db]

There's a whole world out there (even in Canada) that sells some prime cuts at good prices and, IMNSHO, yu're looking at chuck steaks.

You might state what you can afford to spend on however many speakers you want and solicit suggestions. i.e "I have x $ and want two front speakers, or a surround system, or as surrou nd system and a subwoofer.

He had a Best Buy credit fro trading in his ipod dock station and was forced to use the money there. :)

[pixelthis]

Thanks for all the replies and input guys.

I just came back with my pair of speakers to go alongside my amp.

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-6260 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028502&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) (Paid: 549$ CND, worth 700$ CND)
Speakers: Klipsch RF-62 (http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-62.aspx) (700$/pair, worth 1200$/pair CND)

What do you guys think ? I finally decided to dish out some more money on the speakers. The F3 were 600$ for both (regular price), now i have these 2 worth 1200$.

In the end I think I got a pretty good deal for the whole package, considering my budget.


Had a pair of those Klipsch's, had to return them (the IIRS took a bigger chunk of my 401k)
and got bookshelves, they are great speakers, the two bass/mid drivers balance out the horn somewhat.
They are made in China, hope you dont have an issue with that(I did)

And one other thing...
350 FOR AN IPOD DOCK!!!!!
You gotta be kiddin!!!:1:

[xplatinum]

Had a pair of those Klipsch's, had to return them (the IIRS took a bigger chunk of my 401k)
and got bookshelves, they are great speakers, the two bass/mid drivers balance out the horn somewhat.
They are made in China, hope you dont have an issue with that(I did)

And one other thing...
350 FOR AN IPOD DOCK!!!!!
You gotta be kiddin!!!:1:

Hahaha, yeah. My wife and I are moving into our first house this month and she wanted to have a portable device when she goes into the backyard (pool/spa)... but I do agree that 350$ is alot paid for something you will use what... once every 2 weeks ?

For the time being the speakers and amp are staying at the store. I will pick them up once I move out. I have 30 days to test the speakers once I pick 'em up.

[markw]

He had a Best Buy credit fro trading in his ipod dock station and was forced to use the money there. :)musta missed that...