Why did dome midrage and planar speakers disappear?

[angelgz]

Greetings!

I've been designing DIY speakers for a while but recently I realized that the newer speakers are all cone-based except for the tweeter. What happened to the dome midrages? Almost no speaker manufactures uses dome mids anymore. Are they phased out because they are no good?

Also, I think Planar speakers are disappearing from the market except for Martin Logan. I see some DIY stores still sell planar (ribbon) transducers...etc, but none of the famous speaker manufactures uses these anymore. Is it also because they are no good?

Thanks!!

[JoeE SP9]

New Planars

Magneplanar
Martin Logan
Apogee
Sound Labs
King Sound
Quad
Eminent Technology
LaFolia (DIY planars)
Bohlender Graebener
Analysis Audio

What I use is shown in my signature.

[angelgz]

New Planars

Magneplanar
Martin Logan
Apogee
Sound Labs
King Sound
Quad
Eminent Technology
LaFolia (DIY planars)
Bohlender Graebener
Analysis Audio

What I use is shown in my signature.

Among the above mentioned brands, I only see Martin Logans still being sold on the market. The other brands, I can't find them being sold anywhere. I feel they are gradually dissappearing from the market.

[RGA]

It's not that things are no good it's what most designers believe are A) the best sound reproduction and B) what is salable.

There are thousands of speaker makers out there who could just as easily be making panels but for reasons A and or B above they choose not to make them. Panel makers for reasons A and or B above have decided to make panels.

Some of my favorite speakers are panels - some of my least favorite speakers are panels.

Obviously with only a handful of speaker makers making them - there are a very limited number of parts and DIY parts places will carry much less of those parts. And on Joe's list only 4 of those sell in any real numbers anymore - Magnepan, Quad, Sound Labs, and Martin Logan. And three of these are Electrostats generally priced way out of the average audiophile's budget - except for Martin Logan - but this company's money is in the the budget hybrid area - and IMO the sound is not great from these sub/panel designs compared to Sound Labs or Quad. Magnepan doesn't have the resolution of the Quads and Soundlabs making their mid entry models the 12 and 1.6 good buys but as the price goes up the Electrostats easily better them.

Even Quad has begin to make boxed speakers over the years to prop up sales.

[markw]

Among the above mentioned brands, I only see Martin Logans still being sold on the market. The other brands, I can't find them being sold anywhere. I feel they are gradually dissappearing from the market.Magnapan is not an uncommon speaker,at least here in the USA. They aren't in big box stores, but many upper scale audio stores sell 'em.

Planars do require a commitment in that placement is critical and many aren't willing to do what's needed to get the most out of tem.

[StevenSurprenant]

Also, I think Planar speakers are disappearing from the market except for Martin Logan. I see some DIY stores still sell planar (ribbon) transducers...etc, but none of the famous speaker manufactures uses these anymore. Is it also because they are no good?

I've been a fan of planers for a very long time. I've owned Quad ESL's and I presently own Magnepan. I also owned a pair of Phase Linear's back in the 70's.

All of these have that magic that only planers can give and with the right music they were the best. However, they all lack the dynamics and punch that only box speakers seem to do well.

What they have going against them is that they are usually large and have to be placed out into the room to sound their best. It's a dipole thing!

I've also listened to many of the Martin Logan speakers and found that their higher end models sounded pretty good, but their lower end didn't do the trick for me.

Times have changed and people are more interested in surround sound and unless you have a very large room and lots of money, planers are out of the question.

In addition to that, the last generation or two seem to be into window shattering bass, which planers do not do well.

Only once have I heard Magnepan speakers sound good in a store. Most of the time they sound anemic. That's sad because they are very nice speakers when set up correctly.

The bottom line is IMHO...

While planers have some of the best sound, they are not popular because of their size, the need to have them out into the room, surround sound, cost, and the type of music that many younger people listen to.

Oh, and don't forget the dreaded WEF (wife exceptance factor)...

There are many great speakers, both planer and box, but they are usually well above the price range that most people want to pay.

The last thing is that if Best Buy, Tweeters, or some other fast food audio store doesn't carry it, they have never heard of it.

We live in a world where people think Bose is high end.

[E-Stat]

The other brands, I can't find them being sold anywhere. I feel they are gradually dissappearing from the market.
Nonsense. I would recommend starting with their dealers.

rw

[Feanor]

Greetings!

I've been designing DIY speakers for a while but recently I realized that the newer speakers are all cone-based except for the tweeter. What happened to the dome midrages? Almost no speaker manufactures uses dome mids anymore. Are they phased out because they are no good?
...

Thanks!!

As for dome mid-ranges, having checked out the midrange domes available to DIYers, and I'd say that they main problem is that they have limited frequency range below what high-quality dome tweeters can handle. Very few can go significantly below 1000 Hz. The only ones that appeal to me at all are the Morel EM 1308 (http://www.morelhifi.com/products/pdf/Midrange/EM/Specs%20sheet%20EM%201308.pdf)and similar MDM 55 that are good to about 700 Hz. But they are fairly expensive driver that aren't likely to appeal to commercial speaker builders. (There are also a couple of very expensive models from Acuton that might qualify as inverse, ceramic domes.)

There are good 3" - 6" midrange or mid/bass cone drivers that will equal the performance of domes in the 1000 - 2000 Hz range, and are much better down to 200 Hz.

I think many designers would prefer a 2-way design with a high-power, low base resonance tweeter operating down to 1500-1800 Hz in combination with a 5" - 7" mid/bass, than be bothered with at tweeter - midrange - bass 3-way design.

[hifitommy]

here is a quick find at madisound:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_234_264&products_id=1088

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_234_264&products_id=1035

those are domes but no planar mids were found. there.

[angelgz]

We live in a world where people think Bose is high end.

That is so true!! I can't help myself to get up and stop one of my co-worker from bragging about her "Bose Lifestyle" system. What she said was extremely amusing and I was laughing (although not intentionally) till my stomach hurts. She thinks that Bose is the most "high end" speaker you can get and she said she saved $$ just to realize this "dream". OMG.

I also found something very interesting. There's still a ultra-high-end speaker manufacture called "Genesis" that still makes Planars. They actually put Tweeters and Planars on one box, and the woofers on a separate box. So you'd have four boxes as your fronts. WOW the $$ is very "interesting" as well -- $50,000. One of these days, I got to at least audition these. If any of you guys are fortunate enough to have heard a pair of these, please let me know how it goes!!! Please!!

Meanwhile, guys, what happened to the Dome speakers? Remember in the 80's most speakers like a/d/s, Dynaudio, ...etc have a 3" Dome midrage and then a 1" dome tweeter. Although Dome tweeters are still around, the dome mids are gone.

[angelgz]

There are good 3" - 6" midrange or mid/bass cone drivers that will equal the performance of domes in the 1000 - 2000 Hz range, and are much better down to 200 Hz.

I think many designers would prefer a 2-way design with a high-power, low base resonance tweeter operating down to 1500-1800 Hz in combination with a 5" - 7" mid/bass, than be bothered with at tweeter - midrange - bass 3-way design.

Thanks! That was very helpful. I am trying to build another speaker and have some Dynaudio midrange domes lying around. So I thought if they are no good then I shouldn't be using them.

Thanks~

[Feanor]

Thanks! That was very helpful. I am trying to build another speaker and have some Dynaudio midrange domes lying around. So I thought if they are no good then I shouldn't be using them.

Thanks~

Not no good! They might be very good indeed used properly. My only point is that cone drivers are the favored design these days for the midrange versus dome midranges.

[JoeE SP9]

angelgz:
The list of Planar speakers I posted was of currently available new production speakers. I listed only a small sample. Do a Google search on Planar Speakers and look for yourself.