Question on Toslink Cables for TV Sound & Great Power Cord Tweak for CD Audio [Archive]

EdwardGein

05-23-2009, 10:39 PM

I haven't been back here for a while since I used the great advice I got and bought a Blu-Ray Player (Panasonic BD55 whose price seems to have almost doubled from the $350 I paid for it) which I love especially the True HD Sound and I really feel I'm in a movie theater.

I've been spoiled so much by the True HD Sound, I'm now obsessed with improving my TV 5.1 Digital Sound which totally pales to True HD Sound and was wondering if I use a better glass fiber optic cable for my sound if I'll notice that much of a difference? Please no posts from people who think all digital sound is the same (I got into that argument years ago here and there's no point rehashing). If you do think there would be a noticeable difference in the audio sound which cable would you recommend? There don't seem to be many reviews onlline on optic cables (even the ones here are mainly by no more then 1-2 people which isn't enough for me to go by). I can't use HDMI cable for my receiver as its an older model (Denon 3801) without an HDMI input. Will True HD Sound ever be available for TV?

In regards to CD audio sound, I bought a (Harmony) power cord from an incredible company online company called Audio Horizons for I think $230 on a 10 day trial and within 10 seconds it made a night and day improvement on my CD audio sound - better tighter bass and no musical drops as well as a livelier ballsier sound with more umph. I was shocked how much better it made my CD sound, I honestly wasn't expecting much and if it wasn't for the 10 day trial, I wouldn't have bought it. The guy behind this company is a genius. I wish I could sell his stuff.

Edward Gein

PS While my General interest blog (http://www.GiftsandFreeAdvice.com/free_advice)is doing very good (90,000 readers a Month) my online Home Audio Store was a total disaster financially and in what could be a total idiot move on my part, I set up another store selling Discount Vinyl Records and Home Audio Equipment, www.VinylRecordsandHomeAudio.com (http://www.VinylRecordsandHomeAudio.com)which your welcome to check out I admit. I don't even have a record player and hate records because I can't fast forward tracks and scratch them up! I thought maybe there might be a niche demand for records. I might be throwing good money after bad!

N. Abstentia

05-24-2009, 06:34 AM

pixelthis

05-24-2009, 10:28 PM

WHERE to start?
Dont know about the quality you will get from your TV toslink out.
THIS is the only way to get a digital feed out of most sets, and its my understanding its only 2 channel. Sorry.
I have an older receiver also, but I get my audio from the cable box, and its really spectacular, not as good as BLU but what is?
The 5.1 stuff is great with exelent channel seperation, and DOLBY II works fine with two channel stuff.
These days you need either cable or a dish, they are the only way to get a wide selection
of HD and really nice sound and picture.
If OTA is your only choice you might want to get a stand alone tuner(not a converter box).
When I started I had a Samsung HD tuner hooked to my antenna and the sound was great.
BUT cable or dish is really the only way to go.
Really.:1:

EdwardGein

05-24-2009, 10:47 PM

Problem is my digital 5.1 TV sound can't compare to Blu-Ray True HD Sound and I'm wondering if a better optical cable might make my TV sound better.

pixelthis

05-24-2009, 10:58 PM

Problem is my digital 5.1 TV sound can't compare to Blu-Ray True HD Sound and I'm wondering if a better optical cable might make my TV sound better.

No, no more than that power cord will improve your sound, any "improvement" is only between your ears, called the placebo effect.
Digital is digital, as long as your cable can transmit light it will work about as good as it can.
OF course a high end CD player will sound better than the two channel sound coming from a TV tuner.
anything sounds better than the sound from a TV tuner.
Check your TV for a fake "surround" mode, that helps sometimes.
BEST THING IS TO completely ignore your tuner and get the audio from somewhere else.:1:

N. Abstentia

05-25-2009, 05:55 AM

Problem is my digital 5.1 TV sound can't compare to Blu-Ray True HD Sound and I'm wondering if a better optical cable might make my TV sound better.

No. But I'm sure you'll buy a $300 cable anyway so go right ahead.

Ed_in_Tx

05-25-2009, 07:03 AM

Problem is my digital 5.1 TV sound can't compare to Blu-Ray True HD Sound and I'm wondering if a better optical cable might make my TV sound better.

Because your TV is receiving compressed AC-3 digital audio with up to 5.1 audio channels, that is bit-rate limited to work within the ATSC television standards, plus you have the broadcast engineers tweaking and adjusting the audio upstream like the "Dialog Normalize" that's supposed to level out the audio differences between stations, before your digital TV receives it. An optical Toslink cable will carry that digital bit stream to your AV receiver's optical input, and it either will do the job, or it won't.

EdwardGein

05-25-2009, 08:46 PM

In the case of the cable which is $229, its not a placebo effect, it actually does improve my cd audio sound.

pixelthis

05-25-2009, 10:00 PM

In the case of the cable which is $229, its not a placebo effect, it actually does improve my cd audio sound.

I doubt it, but at least you're providing jobs for the copper mining industry, times are hard and we must all do our part.
There are two major camps in the audio world, those that beleive in such things
and those who would rather spend their money on stuff that makes a difference.
Power cables (and line conditioners, etc) are right up there with CD player lens cleaners
and pet rocks you put on your speakers, but to each his own.:1:

EdwardGein

05-26-2009, 01:02 AM

All I can say is you should try them out as you have 10 days to return the product and get a refund. Interesting enough there are 3 perfect review ratings on this website www.audioreview.com/cat/cables/power-cables/audio-horizons/componentplus-premium-ac-power-cord/PRD_338188_5829crx.aspx (http://www.audioreview.com/cat/cables/power-cables/audio-horizons/componentplus-premium-ac-power-cord/PRD_338188_5829crx.aspx) The guy, Joseph Chow is well known in audio circles. He also has a deal where if you have a certain amount of freedback on Audiogon, he'll let you try them for free, I can't tell you how many things I've returned over the years because I didn't notice any audio improvement and I almost welcome not hearing improvement because I don't have so much money on hand. In this case it was an absolute night and day improvement. The guys website is www.audio-horizons.com/ (http://www.audio-horizons.com/)

N. Abstentia

05-26-2009, 03:09 AM

In the case of the cable which is $229, its not a placebo effect, it actually does improve my cd audio sound.

You would have probably been better off spending that money on a new CD player if the one you have sounds that bad.

GMichael

05-26-2009, 07:50 AM

You would have probably been better off spending that money on a new CD player if the one you have sounds that bad.
Or 20 to 30 new CD's?

Hyfi

05-26-2009, 10:35 AM

As far as Toslink goes, there are two types that never get addressed. There are those with actual Glass fibers and those that are plastic. The polished ends on the glass are done to a higher spec than those of plastic construction since you can't get the same micro finish on plastic that you can get from glass.

That being said, I found better performance with a Cardas Digital Audio cable which is a 75ohm Video cable, than I got with a cheap plastic Toslink cable.

On a side note, I worked for a company where we designed and built some of the very first Fiber Optic Cable Polishing machines for AMP who made some of the first Toslink cables for digital transmission.

EdwardGein

05-26-2009, 01:29 PM

My Jolida JD-100A CD player sounded excellent before I got the cord and with the cord it sounds incredible,

Woochifer

05-26-2009, 01:54 PM

Hersh -

I see that you're still throwing money at your system. Unless you've already upgraded the speakers and the room acoustics, the cabling gives you the least bang for the buck compared to other upgrades.

Asking about an optical cable, why would you want to upgrade that when the coaxial connection has a higher maximum bandwidth? Wouldn't it make more sense to try the coaxial connection? (I would venture to guess that you got plenty of spare RCA cables lying around -- a 75 ohm composite video cable will work just fine as a coaxial digital audio cable)

Coaxial connections in general are more durable, as you don't have to worry about kinking the cable. Keep in mind of course, that the bandwidth required for CD audio and lossy 5.1 audio formats are still way below the maximum for an optical cable.

Given that you're using this for a TV, I wouldn't bother. The audio quality from the source is probably so compressed and otherwise compromised, it won't any difference whatsoever to upgrade the optical cable. With 5.1 HDTV broadcasts, the audio track uses 384k Dolby Digital, which delivers less than stellar audio quality. And because DD uses buffered data packets, real time data delivery issues such as jitter are irrelevant. Unless you're running a long cable and/or experience frequent dropouts, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot on optical cables.

N. Abstentia

05-26-2009, 05:28 PM

My Jolida JD-100A CD player sounded excellent before I got the cord and with the cord it sounds incredible,

My CD player sounded MUCH better after I hooked up the power cord as well. I couldn't believe the difference that connecting the power cord made in the sound!!! :3:

pixelthis

05-26-2009, 11:22 PM

My CD player sounded MUCH better after I hooked up the power cord as well. I couldn't believe the difference that connecting the power cord made in the sound!!! :3:

The only "difference " buying this power cord had was on the bottom line of the company
selling it.
There is little or no effect on sound from a power source, as long as its clean power,
and todays modern power supplies do an exelent job of filtering power.
And more expensive CD players do even more, with two power supplies , one for audio,
one for the motor, display, etc.
The most lucrative in a long ling of various forms of snake oil have been the "power"
con, both expensive cords with more copper than Arizona, or "power conditioners",
what they are "conditioning" power for is anybodies guess.
But if it makes you happy to toss money away, so be it, just why cant you toss any in my direction?.:1:

N. Abstentia

05-27-2009, 05:08 AM

Say what you want, but to me there was a HUGE difference in my CD sound once I connected the power cable. HUGE.

Woochifer

05-27-2009, 07:56 AM

Say what you want, but to me there was a HUGE difference in my CD sound once I connected the power cable. HUGE.

ROCK ON! :3:

GMichael

05-27-2009, 08:53 AM

Say what you want, but to me there was a HUGE difference in my CD sound once I connected the power cable. HUGE.

I bet it was like night & day. Or maybe, off & on?

Woochifer

05-27-2009, 09:35 AM

I bet it was like night & day. Or maybe, off & on?

Off & on ... I don't get it. Y'mean a CD player actually has a functional use other than keeping my papers from flying away? :3:

N. Abstentia

05-27-2009, 10:06 AM

Off & on ... I don't get it. Y'mean a CD player actually has a functional use other than keeping my papers from flying away? :3:

Well duh. You don't use the cupholder on yours?

GMichael

05-27-2009, 10:22 AM

Well duh. You don't use the cupholder on yours?
You mean the one that pops out automaticly when you push the button? Mine broke.

Woochifer

05-27-2009, 01:02 PM

Well duh. You don't use the cupholder on yours?

Duh, y'know that cupholder requires a power cord, don't you?

GMichael

05-27-2009, 01:08 PM

Duh, y'know that cupholder requires a power cord, don't you?

You don't have a powered cup holder yet? WTF? Are you living in the stone ages?

markw

05-27-2009, 02:56 PM

Duh, y'know that cupholder requires a power cord, don't you?Yeah, but does a fancy power cord keep the coffee warmer?

GMichael

05-27-2009, 03:56 PM

Yeah, but does a fancy power cord keep the coffee warmer?

Nah.. Just keeps it fresher.

N. Abstentia

05-27-2009, 04:25 PM

I have one with 5 cupholders. The cups fall off as it rotates though, that's crap.

pixelthis

05-27-2009, 11:28 PM

I have one with 5 cupholders. The cups fall off as it rotates though, that's crap.

Thats a five disc changer, you put CD'S in, not cups.
The human animal is a lousy witness, and memory tends to blur over time as to what we actually did witness.
You're power cord won't change the signal a bit, but its real big and hefty, and cost a couple of hundred bucks, so it must work, right?
Wrong.
PEOPLE have died from observing something incorrectly.
At least all you did was waste some money.
Enjoy watching your cupholder.:1:

EdwardGein

05-28-2009, 12:20 AM

markw

05-28-2009, 02:36 AM

markw

05-28-2009, 02:40 AM

PEOPLE have died from observing something incorrectly.
At least all you did was waste some money.
An autopsy professor was giving an introductory lecture to a class of students. Standing over a corpse, he addressed the class. 'There are two things you need to make a career in medical forensics. First, you must have no fear.' Having said that, he shoved his finger up the corpse's anus and licked it. 'Now you must do the same,' he told the class.

After a couple of minutes of uneasy silence, the class did as instructed.

'Second,' the professor continued, 'you must have an acute sense of observation. For instance, how many of you noticed that I put my middle finger up this man's anus, but licked my index finger?'

GMichael

05-28-2009, 05:13 AM

It totally made the sound better. I don't mind if you don't think it can but as you haven't listened to it you shouldn't make a definite opinion on something you didn't observe first hand. 3 People in this websites section also say otherwise to you. Are you saying that this websites review section is worthless and has no credibility or just when you don't agree with it?

Hi Ed,

If it makes your listening experience any better, then screw what anybody, or any tests, have to say. All that matters is that it makes you enjoy it more. Others may want to put that cash into something else. That's ok too. We'll all do what means the most to each of us. And it's in our nature to debate who's way is right, or best. IMO at our level of equipment, $300 would be better spent on room treatments. If someone has a $20,000 system, then what the h.ll. Another $300 on a power cord seems like a no brainer. Why not take advantage of any improvement possible (plausible or not) if you have that kind of money. That said,

N. Ab,

What happens if you use Styrofoam cups?

GMichael

05-28-2009, 05:13 AM

An autopsy professor was giving an introductory lecture to a class of students. Standing over a corpse, he addressed the class. 'There are two things you need to make a career in medical forensics. First, you must have no fear.' Having said that, he shoved his finger up the corpse's anus and licked it. 'Now you must do the same,' he told the class.

After a couple of minutes of uneasy silence, the class did as instructed.

'Second,' the professor continued, 'you must have an acute sense of observation. For instance, how many of you noticed that I put my middle finger up this man's anus, but licked my index finger?'

Didn't I tell you that one?

Kevio

05-28-2009, 06:15 AM

PEOPLE have died from observing something incorrectly.
At least all you did was waste some money.
Enjoy watching your cupholder.:1:
There was some recent research on this. I can't find a citation at the moment. You typically won't die from observing something incorrectly. The bigger risk is failing to observe something. If you become hyper-observant, the consequence is inefficient superstitious behavior. Since death takes you out of the gene pool and superstition does not, evolution favors erring in the direction of observing things that aren't there.

GMichael

05-28-2009, 06:51 AM

There was some recent research on this. I can't find a citation at the moment. You typically won't die from observing something incorrectly. The bigger risk is failing to observe something. If you become hyper-observant, the consequence is inefficient superstitious behavior. Since death takes you out of the gene pool and superstition does not, evolution favors erring in the direction of observing things that aren't there.
Is that why the world seems to be filling up with paranoid namby pambies who are more worried about being PC than getting the job done?

Kevio

05-28-2009, 06:18 PM

It explains paranoia and specifically the effectiveness of fear-based rhetoric. I don't see how it explains political correctness. Nice try.

N. Abstentia

05-28-2009, 06:57 PM

If a power cord makes that much difference in how a CD player sounds, imagine what upgrading the internal power supply would do. Then of course you'd want to upgrade all the circuit board traces to improve it even more. Then of course you need to upgrade the analog output connections for even better sound. Drop a few grand on upgrades, THEN you'll have a good sounding CD player.

pixelthis

05-28-2009, 11:31 PM

It totally made the sound better. I don't mind if you don't think it can but as you haven't listened to it you shouldn't make a definite opinion on something you didn't observe first hand. 3 People in this websites section also say otherwise to you. Are you saying that this websites review section is worthless and has no credibility or just when you don't agree with it?

You can get a thousand people to say the same thing , doesnt matter.
That cord wont change diddly squat, so you can't hear something that doesnt exist.
Its a little thing they hardly teach in school anymore, something called science
I don't need to see Newton get hit in the head to understand gravity.
Power amps need hefty cords, they use a lot of amps.
CD players not so much.
And the better the CD player the less of an "effect" (if any ) your cord will have.
Why? BECAUSE A CD PLAYER has a power supply with diodes, capacitors, etc,
and if its a good one it has two, one for audio, the other for the mechanicals.
And these power supplies are designed to produce a certain voltage and current at
certain specified values, in other words they are doing everything they can to provide a certain result, if your cord will change anything they will change it back, thats their job.
In other words if your cord produces a "change" that surrives the rigorus cleansing
that the electricals in your CD player give voltage and current then that means one
thing... your CD PLAYER IS BROKEN.
Hate to be the one to tell ya.:1:

GMichael

05-29-2009, 05:05 AM

It explains paranoia and specifically the effectiveness of fear-based rhetoric. I don't see how it explains political correctness. Nice try.
Have you tried standing on your head?

Kevio

05-29-2009, 08:04 AM

Yes, I do yoga.

GMichael

05-29-2009, 08:29 AM

Can you see it better from that angle?:21:

pixelthis

05-31-2009, 05:15 PM

There was some recent research on this. I can't find a citation at the moment. You typically won't die from observing something incorrectly. The bigger risk is failing to observe something. If you become hyper-observant, the consequence is inefficient superstitious behavior. Since death takes you out of the gene pool and superstition does not, evolution favors erring in the direction of observing things that aren't there.

Failing to observe something is the numero uno cause of death.
For instance, teh guy who crosses the street , failing to "observe" the moving van.
The guy who fails to observe the wedding band on girlfriends finger.
The commie country leader with first gen nukes who fails to "observe" the superpower
with 10,000 fifth gen ones.
And I could go on.:1:

GMichael

06-01-2009, 05:22 AM

What Ice? I didn't notice any ice.

pixelthis

06-01-2009, 12:22 PM

What Ice? I didn't notice any ice.

Just gets in the way of your whiskey, as a general rule.
HEY, heard about the bankruptcy, sorry bout that:1:

musicman1999

06-08-2009, 02:48 AM

Hi Ed

I recently added a couple of Shunyata Research power cables to my system, for pre-pro and cd player, and found both made a difference. Not daylight and dark, but enough to justify the expense. The cables are heavily shielded and i believe this is where the improvement comes from.

bill

TerrorByte

06-12-2009, 12:00 PM

I've been spoiled so much by the True HD Sound, I'm now obsessed with improving my TV 5.1 Digital Sound which totally pales to True HD Sound and was wondering if I use a better glass fiber optic cable for my sound if I'll notice that much of a difference?

No, because True HD, and DTS-HD can not pass through an optical cable, they do not support the bandwidth. Unless you have your BD player hooked up to an AVR that supports TrueHD/DTS-HD, via HMDI, and a 7.1 speaker system you have only been hearing the core AC3 (Dolby Digital), or DTS streams. And no, the TOS link isn't going to make the 0's and 1's sound better.

anamorphic96

06-13-2009, 10:11 PM

No, because True HD, and DTS-HD can not pass through an optical cable, they do not support the bandwidth. Unless you have your BD player hooked up to an AVR that supports TrueHD/DTS-HD, via HMDI, and a 7.1 speaker system you have only been hearing the core AC3 (Dolby Digital), or DTS streams. And no, the TOS link isn't going to make the 0's and 1's sound better.

He is talking about using the toslink between his tv cable box and receiver to see if he can improve his 5.1 sound for TV shows.

His Blue Ray player is doing the decoding for movies. So he is hearing True HD and DTS HD. He is running six analog cables into his Denon receivers external analog inputs.

And by the way Ed the toslink cable will make no difference. There ones and zeros and either on or off.

markw

06-14-2009, 04:31 AM

Since when does hershon listen to any advice that doesn't affirm what he wants to believe?

TerrorByte

06-14-2009, 07:47 PM

He is talking about using the toslink between his tv cable box and receiver to see if he can improve his 5.1 sound for TV shows.

His Blue Ray player is doing the decoding for movies. So he is hearing True HD and DTS HD. He is running six analog cables into his Denon receivers external analog inputs.

And by the way Ed the toslink cable will make no difference. There ones and zeros and either on or off.

I can only read what is posted, which contains nothing about him using other connections :crazy: .