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ForeverAutumn
05-21-2009, 08:44 AM
Good for Green Day! I'd be very disappointed in them if they agreed to censor their CD for Wal-mart.

I'll be picking up the album later this week. Although I haven't bought it yet, I have heard it. It must be hard to follow-up American Idiot which is, IMO, the best album of their career and probably their most commercially successful. But what I've heard is a really good attempt. It's a nice combination of the more complex themes and music that came with American Idiot and the short, catchy ditties of their previous albums. Enough of my rambling, here's the Wal-mart story...

Green Day lashes out at Wal-Mart policy; chain refused to stock CD

By Nekesa Mumbi Moody, The Associated Press

NEW YORK - Green Day has the most popular CD in the country, but you won't be able to find it at your local Wal-Mart.

The band says the giant superstore chain refused to stock its latest CD, "21st Century Breakdown," because Wal-Mart wanted the album edited for language and content, and they refused.

"Wal-Mart's become the biggest retail outlet in the country, but they won't carry our record because they wanted us to censor it," frontman Billie Joe Armstrong said in a recent interview.

While Wal-Mart sells CDs from acts known for raunchy content, including Eminem's latest, they offer customers the "clean" version of those CDs, which are edited for content that may be objectionable. But in Armstrong's view, "There's nothing dirty about our record."

"They want artists to censor their records in order to be carried in there," he said. "We just said no. We've never done it before. You feel like you're in 1953 or something."

"21st Century Breakdown" contains curses and some references considered adult.

Wal-Mart said that it's the company's longstanding policy not to stock any CD with a parental advisory sticker.

"As with all music, it is up to the artist or label to decide if they want to market different variations of an album to sell, including a version that would remove a PA rating," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Melissa O'Brien said. "The label and artist in this case have decided not to do so, so we unfortunately can not offer the CD."

But guitarist Mike Dirnt said: "As the biggest record store in the America, they should probably have an obligation to sell people the correct art."

Not being sold at Wal-Mart didn't stop the band - which kicks off a U.S. tour summer tour in Seattle on July 3 - from landing at the top of the album charts this week. "21st Century Breakdown" sold about 215,000 copies since it's debut on Friday.

The album is the follow-up to their multiplatinum, Grammy-winning CD "American Idiot," and like that album, deals with weighty topics. While "American Idiot" spoke to the frustration over the presidency of George W. Bush and the Iraq War, this CD speaks to the loss of innocence and confusion in today's society.

While Armstrong, Dirnt and drummer Tre Cool are still top-sellers without Wal-Mart, Armstrong said the store's policy is disappointing, considering it has become the dominant seller of CDs with the decline of traditional music stores.

"If you think about bands that are struggling or smaller than Green Day ... to think that to get record your out in places like that, but they won't carry it because of the content and you have to censor yourself," he said. "I mean, what does that say to a young kid whose trying to speak his mind making a record for the first time? It's like a game that you have to play. You have to refuse to play it."

Finch Platte
05-21-2009, 09:36 AM
Good!

Maybe the buyers will support their indie record stores instead.

Hyfi
05-21-2009, 09:39 AM
I don't fault Wall Mart. It's their choice not to sell certain Items. If a band really wants to sell their goods there, they know the policy.

Nobody came down real hard on Blockbuster when they refused to rent the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" because it portrayed Jesus as human. They also don't rent any XXX movies but the porn stars are not crying about it.

kexodusc
05-21-2009, 11:08 AM
Gotta admit, I hate Wal-Mart, but in this case I kinda support their right to choose what they want to sell. Only because I like other businesses to have the right to chose what they want to sell for whatever moral reasons they might have. I don't really buy that Wal-Mart is all that moral or noble, but whatever.

I'l give them credit here, they give artists a choice to offer alternative versions of their music that are less offensive to some people, and the artist has the right to refuse. Freedom for both sides here...sounds good to me.

I don't see what the big deal is really. Too many people get too anal about a few bad words...and on the flip side if you need to drop f-bombs or sell controversy as art to make it big in the first place, Wal-Mart's probably not your most effective distribution channel anyway.

I can't ever remember asking Grammy to pick up the new NWA tape for me the next time she was buying stockings.

As for Green Day, they love painting themselves as these noble, anti-establishment rock-crusaders so this is free publicity that deep down inside they dream of getting for every release. I suspect they'll milk it for all its worth too.

Seems every few months its someone else doing this dance.

From what I've seen of Wal-Mart's DVD catalog though, the same policies don't seem to apply to movies...

ForeverAutumn
05-21-2009, 01:05 PM
Gotta admit, I hate Wal-Mart, but in this case I kinda support their right to choose what they want to sell. Only because I like other businesses to have the right to chose what they want to sell for whatever moral reasons they might have. I don't really buy that Wal-Mart is all that moral or noble, but whatever.

I'l give them credit here, they give artists a choice to offer alternative versions of their music that are less offensive to some people, and the artist has the right to refuse. Freedom for both sides here...sounds good to me.

I don't see what the big deal is really. Too many people get too anal about a few bad words...and on the flip side if you need to drop f-bombs or sell controversy as art to make it big in the first place, Wal-Mart's probably not your most effective distribution channel anyway.

I can't ever remember asking Grammy to pick up the new NWA tape for me the next time she was buying stockings.

As for Green Day, they love painting themselves as these noble, anti-establishment rock-crusaders so this is free publicity that deep down inside they dream of getting for every release. I suspect they'll milk it for all its worth too.

Seems every few months its someone else doing this dance.

From what I've seen of Wal-Mart's DVD catalog though, the same policies don't seem to apply to movies...

Sure Wal-mart has a right to decide what to sell. But I have mixed feelings about them saying to any artist "we'll only sell your product if you modify it to our standards". On the one hand they do give the Artist the choice as to whether they want their CD sold at Wal-mart or not. But on the other hand, who the hell are Wal-mart to decide what is offensive? Isn't it up to the consumer to make that decision for themselves?

I don't think that Green Day is painting themselves as anti-establishment here. If I were an artist in this position, I'd be telling Wal-mart to stuff it too. My music is what it is; sell it, don't sell it, I don't care.

Kevio
05-21-2009, 01:12 PM
I totally support what they're doing. I also know you still can't curse on the radio. Is that censorship too? Will they allow bleeped versions of the songs on the radio? Rest assured they will. But you've got to fight them where you can win and so I'll score one for Green Day here.

bobsticks
05-21-2009, 01:53 PM
Gotta admit, I hate Wal-Mart, but in this case I kinda support their right to choose what they want to sell. Only because I like other businesses to have the right to chose what they want to sell for whatever moral reasons they might have. I don't really buy that Wal-Mart is all that moral or noble, but whatever.

I'l give them credit here, they give artists a choice to offer alternative versions of their music that are less offensive to some people, and the artist has the right to refuse. Freedom for both sides here...sounds good to me.

Yes.


I don't see what the big deal is really. Too many people get too anal about a few bad words...and on the flip side if you need to drop f-bombs or sell controversy as art to make it big in the first place, Wal-Mart's probably not your most effective distribution channel anyway.

Again, yes, but I have no doubt that the number geeks and the wonks have determined that the "WalMart demographic" seem to have strong feelings on this matter...god knows they wouldn't pass up a chance to make a buck. Clearly, said customer bit into the Tipper Gore thang hook, line, and sinker.


I can't ever remember asking Grammy to pick up the new NWA tape for me the next time she was buying stockings.

It's funny you should mention this because, i swear to God, I once saw a censored version of NWA's **** tha Police in a Wally World. It was embarassing to laugh that loud in public...thing must have been about 27 minutes of blips and bleeps.




IFrom what I've seen of Wal-Mart's DVD catalog though, the same policies don't seem to apply to movies...

I was about to mention the same thing. Clearly there's a level of hypocrisy here, whether generated by the company or it's clientele I cannot be sure...


OT: Kex, you need to come to Chi-Town in September or, at least, come up with an interesting sigbet for this weekends pugilism.

kexodusc
05-21-2009, 01:54 PM
Sure Wal-mart has a right to decide what to sell. But I have mixed feelings about them saying to any artist "we'll only sell your product if you modify it to our standards". On the one hand they do give the Artist the choice as to whether they want their CD sold at Wal-mart or not. But on the other hand, who the hell are Wal-mart to decide what is offensive? Isn't it up to the consumer to make that decision for themselves?

I don't think that Green Day is painting themselves as anti-establishment here. If I were an artist in this position, I'd be telling Wal-mart to stuff it too. My music is what it is; sell it, don't sell it, I don't care.
I hear ya, but to be fair I don't think Wal-Mart is talking in the tone of "we'll only sell your product if you modify it to our standards". I'm sure it's a friendly, "we'd love to profit off your music, but we have decided to adopt a corporate policy on explicit content. But wait, if you're willing to modify a few words we're still willing to work with you without prejudice"....
If you remember Wal-Mart's history, there was a time when a lot of angry mom's blamed them for selling music with explicit lyrics even though there were labels and warnings. Wal-Mart reacted believing it was in their best interest. Some people amazingly put a great deal of faith in them. Wal-Mart's just catering to what it thinks its market is - the good ol' mom and dad friendly store. Kind of bogus cause the movies don't get the same treatment (or video games that allow you to chainsaw off the arms of a fellow human being, but I digress). So yeah, they have some right to say "we're willing to work with you if you can work with us". I'm glad Green Day refused to compromise, but I don't see this as good vs evil. It's just a case of a match that wasn't meant to be.

Some people struggle with that...If there's no middle ground to be had, that's ok too, Wal-Mart's not campaigning to ban their music, they're just comfortable not doing business with Green Day. Just won't sell it. They don't sell Hustler mags either I don't think...

The rocker in me thinks Wal-Mart is completely ridiculous in the first place, but I respect their right to make the wrong decision here...So now you'll have to make 2 stops when you want to pick up "Gears of War 2" for Xbox 360, Saw IV DVD, some ammo, and that evil new Green Day CD.

kexodusc
05-21-2009, 01:56 PM
OT: Kex, you need to come to Chi-Town in September or, at least, come up with an interesting sigbet for this weekends pugilism.
Dude, do you live Chicago now? I was just there for 2 weeks. Yeah, I'll try to make it back. I have family there I don't get to see enough of.

Oh, and name the stakes...WHATCHA GONNA DOO, BRUDDA?!

bobsticks
05-21-2009, 02:05 PM
Dude, do you live Chicago now? I was just there for 2 weeks. Yeah, I'll try to make it back. I have family there I don't get to see enough of.

Oh, and name the stakes...WHATCHA GONNA DOO, BRUDDA?!

Nah, I'm still in Indy but Bernd is going to be in the States for a few days and I have already scheduled the time off. I was hoping to create a bit of a gathering...the more the merrier, I say...an appropriate level of chaos in the Windy City with absolutely nothing planned other than fun.

It pains me to say this but I think that Rashad is gonna take this. Actually, that's the betting man in me. What i strongly suspect is that this isn't gonna go long. These two are so strong and so explosive that I'm sure that one mistake on the part of either spells doom.

kexodusc
05-21-2009, 03:27 PM
Hmmm, I dunno. I like Rashad too. I think he's smart enough to not lose, and that's all he has to do vs Machida. Against Rampage, all bets are off.
A friend of mine thinks Evans will fight like Machida...wait for him and counter attack when Machida's defense is at its worse? Why not? Probably the last t hing Machida expects. Could go down as the worst fight ever if he's right....two guys dancing in circles all night.

ForeverAutumn
05-21-2009, 06:23 PM
I hear ya, but to be fair I don't think Wal-Mart is talking in the tone of "we'll only sell your product if you modify it to our standards". I'm sure it's a friendly, "we'd love to profit off your music, but we have decided to adopt a corporate policy on explicit content. But wait, if you're willing to modify a few words we're still willing to work with you without prejudice"....

Not sure I see the difference here. But it doesn't really matter.


Wal-Mart's just catering to what it thinks its market is - the good ol' mom and dad friendly store. ...So yeah, they have some right to say "we're willing to work with you if you can work with us". I'm glad Green Day refused to compromise, but I don't see this as good vs evil. It's just a case of a match that wasn't meant to be.

I don't see this as good vs. evil either. I don't really care what Wal-mart does. I go in there about once a year. I hate shopping there. I've never bought a CD or DVD there except for a few DVDs that were in a $2.99 bin. I didn't really even expect the article to get this much discussion. I just posted it because I thought it was interesting. Being in marketing, I understand pandering to your target market.


Wal-Mart's not campaigning to ban their music, they're just comfortable not doing business with Green Day. Just won't sell it. They don't sell Hustler mags either I don't think...

Fair 'nuff.


So now you'll have to make 2 stops when you want to pick up "Gears of War 2" for Xbox 360, Saw IV DVD, some ammo, and that evil new Green Day CD.

LMAO!

Mr MidFi
05-22-2009, 05:35 AM
I hear ya, but to be fair I don't think Wal-Mart is talking in the tone of "we'll only sell your product if you modify it to our standards".

[snip]

So now you'll have to make 2 stops when you want to pick up "Gears of War 2" for Xbox 360, Saw IV DVD, some ammo, and that evil new Green Day CD.

Point #1...The "we'll only sell your product if you jump thru our hoops" ethos has been ingrained in Mall-Wart's company culture and DNA since day 1. With every supplier, and every product line, from coast to coast. That's just who they are.

Point #2...Yeah, I was going to post something like that. Torture porn in stunning hi-def? A-OK! Pop-punk with middle-school language? Hit the road, sinner! Says a lot about their values, and those of their customers.

kexodusc
05-22-2009, 05:47 AM
Point #1...The "we'll only sell your product if you jump thru our hoops" ethos has been ingrained in Mall-Wart's company culture and DNA since day 1. With every supplier, and every product line, from coast to coast. That's just who they are.


No argument on the end result or intent, just the tone of how they deliver that message. Though I wouldn't be surprised if their less than cordial at times.

ForeverAutumn
05-22-2009, 06:37 AM
Point #1...The "we'll only sell your product if you jump thru our hoops" ethos has been ingrained in Mall-Wart's company culture and DNA since day 1. With every supplier, and every product line, from coast to coast. That's just who they are.

That "my way or the highway" attitude is true of every big retailer. My husband works for a major electronics company and Wal-mart, Future Shop/Best Buy, Costco, etc, all insist on exclusive products and that things be their way or no sales. And these stores are all big enough to make their suppliers bend. Some of the things that they ask for in their sales contract would be considered completely unreasonable coming from a smaller customer. But their size and sales numbers allow them to get away with it.

Troy
05-22-2009, 07:52 AM
Yeah, Wal-Mart is notorious for making vendors jump thru hoops. When I worked for Galoob Toys, they used to drive us nuts with their insistence on exclusive products and special presentations for their sales staff. Buncha smug, bible-thumping scumbags.

And yes, they can certainly sell/not sell whatever they want without technically being considered censors . . . but the problem is, in many small town markets WM is the only store in town. If you want to shop for CDs, you have to do it there because the WM store killed the local mom and pop music store (and bike shop and auto supply shop and patio furniture shop and clothing store and . . . well you get the idea.) So suddenly Green Day is closed out of that whole town.

I seem to recall a LOT of people being very upset with Blockbuster when they refused to carry "The Last Temptation" and also when they stopped carrying Woody Allen movies when the whole Soon Yee story broke.

Again, I live in a place where I don't have to give these horrible companies run by religious fanatics and Dogma-obsessed morons my business, but many people don't. WM and BallBuster are the only businesses in town. Thankfully, the interwebs has broken the WM stranglehold on small town America a little.

Troy
05-22-2009, 08:01 AM
Wal-Mart's just catering to what it thinks its market is - the good ol' mom and dad friendly store.

You're being naive. WM is not creating policy they think the public wants, their policy is to force their Christian agenda on America, and thinly disguising it as simple capitalism.

I recommend you rent the documentary: Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price.

Hyfi
05-22-2009, 08:34 AM
I recommend you rent the documentary: Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price.

Better yet, a lot of it is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMYZwL8sPA

kexodusc
05-22-2009, 09:34 AM
You're being naive. WM is not creating policy they think the public wants, their policy is to force their Christian agenda on America, and thinly disguising it as simple capitalism.
I suppose we all fall victim to using stereotypes from time to time but I kinda thought the rural/suburban middle/lower class white Christian was Wal-Mart's target market.


I recommend you rent the documentary: Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price.
Fair enough, if you agree to listen to the Greatest documentary to learn Truths that will soothe the anger in your soul.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/survey/the-way/yes.php?reference=http://www.AllAboutGOD.com-

Troy
05-22-2009, 09:49 AM
I suppose we all fall victim to using stereotypes from time to time but I kinda thought the rural/suburban middle/lower class white Christian was Wal-Mart's target market.

WM uses censorship combined with market monopolization as a way to control that uneducated lower class. It's a form of moral slavery.

Would WM carry XTC's Skylarking album with Dear God on it if it was released today? Doubtful. And that's just wrong.


Fair enough, if you agree to listen to the Greatest documentary to learn Truths that will soothe the anger in your soul.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/survey/the-way/yes.php?reference=http://www.AllAboutGOD.com-

Don't let your dogma crap in this forum.

I mean really, are you telling me I have to watch some jesus freak "documentary" in order to get you to watch a doc about one of the most evil and insidious corporations in history?

I've seen enough organized religion for 3 lifetimes. Don't you know that if you were born in a muslim country instead of a Christian one, you'd just be a Muslim fanatic instead? Shed your indoctrination and think for yourself, man!

Hyfi
05-22-2009, 10:02 AM
WM uses censorship combined with market monopolization as a way to control that uneducated lower class. It's a form of moral slavery.

Would WM carry XTC's Skylarking album with Dear God on it if it was released today? Doubtful. And that's just wrong.



Don't let your dogma crap in this forum.

I mean really, are you telling me I have to watch some jesus freak "documentary" in order to get you to watch a doc about one of the most evil and insidious corporations in history?

I've seen enough organized religion for 3 lifetimes. Don't you know that if you were born in a muslim country instead of a Christian one, you'd just be a Muslim fanatic instead? Shed your indoctrination and think for yourself, man!

First of all, the link doesn't go to anything to see other than a request for the Bible in audio form. Maybe he should watch Religulous, most of it on youtube in pcs but one really great movie.

kexodusc
05-22-2009, 10:09 AM
WM uses censorship combined with market monopolization as a way to control that uneducated lower class. It's a form of moral slavery. Ok, that's too sensationlist even for me. I'll agree Wal-Mart probalby helped kill Lady Di and they sure are pricks in the business world but even if I did believe this deeply flawed logic it just isn't supported by the myriad of relatively-immoral stuff they do sell 10 feet away from their clean music, not to mention the un-christian, immoral practices they endorse. If you're right, then at very worst their just not very good at "moral-slavery", so I could care less anyway.

Oddly enough, I just checked and confirmed, Wal-Mart does carry 21st Century Breakdown here in Canada.



Would WM carry XTC's Skylarking album with Dear God on it if it was released today? Doubtful. And that's just wrong.
I'm sorry, you're probably right about this. I just can't get past this the simple fact that despite Wal-mart's music policy that's been around for years there's all kinds of music being sold with bad words and god-hating messages in every small town whether Wal-Mart's the only store there or not. XTC fans don't go to Wal-Mart to buy music, and even if they did, they could find the un-edited version at Target beside the new Green Day album. Problem solved.



Don't let your dogma crap in this forum.

I mean really, are you telling me I have to watch some jesus freak "documentary" in order to get you to watch a doc about one of the most evil and insidious corporations in history?

I've seen enough organized religion for 3 lifetimes. Don't you know that if you were born in a muslim country instead of a Christian one, you'd just be a Muslim fanatic instead? Shed your indoctrination and think for yourself, man!
Mwa ha ha....gotcha! :D

Troy
05-22-2009, 10:25 AM
Ok, that's too sensationlist even for me. I'll agree Wal-Mart probalby helped kill Lady Di and they sure are pricks in the business world but even if I did believe this deeply flawed logic it just isn't supported by the myriad of relatively-immoral stuff they do sell 10 feet away from their clean music, not to mention the un-christian, immoral practices they endorse. If you're right, then at very worst their just not very good at "moral-slavery", so I could care less anyway.

Sorry, there's nothing you can say to me that tempers my outrage at a store that's simply forcing a moral agenda on its shoppers. And the same said store tries everything in it's power to monopolize as much business as it can in it's neighborhood.

It's not sensationalist at all. It's simply facts. Do your own research if you don't believe me.


XTC fans don't go to Wal-Mart to buy music, and even if they did, they could find the un-edited version at Target beside the new Green Day album. Problem solved.

Sure, you can buy it at Target . . . if there's one in your town. There are 1,000s of towns in America that only have WM. The teenage market this music is pointed at doesn't have cars or easy transportation. As I said above, the proliferation of the interwebs has improved this situation over the '90s, but for a long time it was very bad.


Mwa ha ha....gotcha! :D

So you were just goading me? If that's the case you don't deserve all those little green jellybeans next to your name. You're simply a troll!

Mr MidFi
05-22-2009, 10:55 AM
That "my way or the highway" attitude is true of every big retailer. My husband works for a major electronics company and Wal-mart, Future Shop/Best Buy, Costco, etc, all insist on exclusive products and that things be their way or no sales. And these stores are all big enough to make their suppliers bend. Some of the things that they ask for in their sales contract would be considered completely unreasonable coming from a smaller customer. But their size and sales numbers allow them to get away with it.

Actually...I'm more familiar with that attitude than you might suspect. My primary client for the past 15 years has been Sears. And there's no question...that's the big-time retail world. You're 100% right.

But I am standing by my assertion that Mall-Wart is the ugliest pig in the rodeo. They're just complete bastards.

3-LockBox
05-22-2009, 05:47 PM
Oh geez...another Wal-Mart sucks thread...

Any and everything that is wrong with Wal-Mart is wrong with every other retail chain. They're all the same. None of them buy their wares from US manufacturing cuz those guys split for foreign shores decades ago. And as for the moral slavery bit, the same could be said of McDonalds, who also caters to the "lower income people" - that way, poor fat people can gorge on Mickey D's and then walk over and find their XXXL clothing - simple.

People who shop at Wal-Mart aren't terribly discerning about much of anything, let alone what music's there, if they still buy physical hard copies of music that is. If there's a hidden, secret christian agenda I never noticed it, and neither do the myrad of towel heads I see in there any time I go there.

Is Wal-Mart committing the sin of the double standard? Sure. So?

Don't do business there if you don't want to. Thing is, they get to be bastards cuz people will kiss their asses to sell there. As has already been mentioned, all stores have their bugaboos as far as selling stuff there goes - the big retail chains know they're the show, and if you want to move your wares, and make big bucks, you're gonna do what they want you to do.

Of course, my perspective is soley from a buyer's point of view. I could care less what hoops vendors go through.

As for Green Day, good for them. That's a big chunk o'change they're turning away. They also know that they're gonna make their money anyway, Wally World or not. Its like turning down seconds on dessert.

Mr MidFi
05-26-2009, 06:15 AM
Of course, my perspective is soley from a buyer's point of view. I could care less what hoops vendors go through.

Hi 3LB. Just need a point if clarification...when you say "from a buyer's point of view," do you mean as a customer/consumer... or are you actually a retail Buyer (as in, job description)? Just curious.

N. Abstentia
05-26-2009, 06:23 AM
So let me get this straight...WalMart won't carry Green Day because there are a couple of curse words on the CD? Okay, fine. They certainly have the right to do that.

BUT why is it that I can walk into any WalMart and see The Complete Sopranos DVD box set on the shelf?

3-LockBox
05-26-2009, 07:18 AM
Hi 3LB. Just need a point if clarification...when you say "from a buyer's point of view," do you mean as a customer/consumer... or are you actually a retail Buyer (as in, job description)? Just curious.

strictly consumer...though I usually shop there at night or early morning (since its a 24 hr WalMart). Any time during the day, any day of the week there throngs of people there. Just too crowded for me most days. If I find local stores that keeps a good stock then I'll usually stick with those, even if they're a tad more expensive, what with the price of gas and all.

Davey
05-26-2009, 07:19 AM
So let me get this straight...WalMart won't carry Green Day because there are a couple of curse words on the CD? Okay, fine. They certainly have the right to do that.

BUT why is it that I can walk into any WalMart and see The Complete Sopranos DVD box set on the shelf?

No, they won't carry it because the RIAA put a parental advisory sticker on it. I don't think they would have any problem selling it without that sticker, regardless of content. Not that there's anything wrong with bashing Walmart, but there are so many much better arguments against them than this silly Green Day publicity stunt.

3-LockBox
05-26-2009, 07:30 AM
So let me get this straight...WalMart won't carry Green Day because there are a couple of curse words on the CD?
BUT why is it that I can walk into any WalMart and see The Complete Sopranos DVD box set on the shelf?

Someone had pointed that out already and there is no logical explaination for it, unless they feel that rock-n-roll is strictly kids stuff and they have to appease the Grups who shop there. There is a double standard/hypocracy here, but no worse than the hypocracy of a parent who don't want their childrens music to contain swear words, but will let them watch movies that contain them.

Someone suggested a moral agenda/indoctrination thingy and while that might be a big enough premise for a paranoid, Michael Moore style documentary, I really think that Wal-Mart thinks its pandering to their parent customers and nothing else. I know that 'excuse' is just as flimsy as the moral agenda conspiracy because all any Wal-Mart exec has to do is visit one of the stores to see what a zoo it is. The biggest issue for a lot of the chidren of Wal-Mart customers isn't going to be what they hear on a CD, so I do agree that its a goofy policy, but fortunately, there are better resources for music. I can't remember the last time I bought a CD at WalMart anyway.

ForeverAutumn
05-26-2009, 07:50 AM
Someone suggested a moral agenda/indoctrination thingy and while that might be a big enough premise for a paranoid, Michael Moore style documentary, I really think that Wal-Mart thinks its pandering to their parent customers and nothing else.

I tend to agree with this. There could be a moral agenda, I don't know. But I suspect that it's more business related than anything else. Wal-mart's market is families on a budget and It would make good business sense to promote family values as part of their business plan. I don't understand, however, why CDs and not DVDs. I'm sure that if you asked, they would have a reason for it.

When I started this thread, I didn't mean for it to become about Wal-mart and whether they have the right to sell or not sell something. Not that I mind, if it's something that people want to discuss. But I thought that it would be more about the artistic integrity of whether an Artist (any artist, not just Green Day) should be made to change their art in order to have it sold by a particular retailer and how this would affect the art and the industry. Green Day can afford to say no to Wal-mart. They're going to sell albums no matter what. But what about the smaller bands that need Wal-mart to promote them? This kind of situation could be make or break for a young band without the dedicated fan base that Green Day has. If it came down to it, should a band "sell out" to Wal-mart by changing or editing lyrics? Is that censorship?

kexodusc
05-26-2009, 10:36 AM
But what about the smaller bands that need Wal-mart to promote them? This kind of situation could be make or break for a young band without the dedicated fan base that Green Day has. If it came down to it, should a band "sell out" to Wal-mart by changing or editing lyrics? Is that censorship?
I can count on one hand the number of times I enter a Wal-Mart in a given year so I'm not familiar with their music content, but can anyone confirm if this is even an issue for small bands? I sort of have the impression that Wal-Mart just carries popular music from major labels anyway, mostly established names or the usual crap the industry pushes onto shelves. If that's the case (maybe it's not) then these smaller bands would never get shelf space there anyway until they become established, RIAA warnings or not.

I've lived in small towns with and without Wal-Marts and always seemed to find music somehow. Was never really that hard. Before the internet we bootlegged and traded tapes. Word of mouth, magazines, and even TV were the biggest sources of exposure to new music. Never the shelves of any store. It used to be part of the experience to hop on a bus and travel 20 miles to the city to go to some second hand or underground music store.

I'm not sure it's any store's obligation to carry a cross-section of all music genres to present an unbiased sample of what's out there or to be the source that gets music out there. So it is unphill battle for new, small bands who haven't made it yet, but that's the way it's always been. Should a band compromise its music to get shelf space at Wal-Mart? Up to them. I'm sure they'll be judged accordingly. I know artists who have a hard time making ends meet and part of me would have a hard time judging them for changing their art to make a living. Then again, from what I've seen, the compromised art probably sells less anyway or might not be the path to riches the artists hoped it would be.

As for Green Day, yeah, good for them for not altering their music, but I do believe they're milking the publicity here a bit too...can't say I blame them. Just not buying their really a victim of much here.

ForeverAutumn
05-26-2009, 10:54 AM
As for Green Day, yeah, good for them for not altering their music, but I do believe they're milking the publicity here a bit too...can't say I blame them. Just not buying their really a victim of much here.

I don't shop at Wal-mart either so I can't answer your question, but you do make a good point about whether a smaller band would be carried by Wal-mart anyway. What about a mid-size band? Would it affect sales and exposure for a band like Kings of Leon if a huge music retailer (it doesn't have to be Wal-mart, could be HMV or Amazon for that matter) found Sex on Fire to be offensive and chose not to sell it? I'm not saying that retailers don't have the right to choose what to sell for any reason they want, I'm just wondering how it would impact the artist.

As for Green Day, the only publicity I've seen is the one article that I posted at the start of this thread so I really don't believe that they are milking this or trying to make themselves out as victims.

kexodusc
05-26-2009, 11:15 AM
I don't shop at Wal-mart either so I can't answer your question, but you do make a good point about whether a smaller band would be carried by Wal-mart anyway. What about a mid-size band? Would it affect sales and exposure for a band like Kings of Leon if a huge music retailer (it doesn't have to be Wal-mart, could be HMV or Amazon for that matter) found Sex on Fire to be offensive and chose not to sell it? I'm not saying that retailers don't have the right to choose what to sell for any reason they want, I'm just wondering how it would impact the artist.
Fair question. At some point one has to ask if a smaller band's audience is affected signficantly by being dropped (or never carried) by Wal-Mart. I'm not sure there's a way to prove it one way or another, less shelf space is a detriment, but the counter argument is people who want such music don't typically shop for music at Wal-Mart or would find it elsewhere. I'm going to guess that since so many bands seem to make a go of it that Wal-Mart isn't the end all, be all in music yet.


As for Green Day, the only publicity I've seen is the one article that I posted at the start of this thread so I really don't believe that they are milking this or trying to make themselves out as victims.
Well, they had a choice. They could have come just ignored Wal-Mart (they admit it's probably no big deal for Green Day), but instead they chose to retaliate. Good for them. I don't mind that. They should. I just don't think that at least some part of that decision-making process didn't at least consider the favorable image it would present, and benefits that follow. A lot of people wouldn't have even known Green Day had a new album out if not for the "Green Day lashes out at Wal-Mart" story where they provided comments for the press. Good, free, timely publicity.

3-LockBox
05-26-2009, 11:58 AM
Wal-Mart's current stock of new music reflects the way they've always been, the same approach all big retail chains take with regards to product; safe and sane. If its a Top40 release, they got it for sure. If its a Billboard top 100 release, they may have it on hand for a limited time. If its a bonafied classic, it'll always exist in some form or another (i.e. Eagles, Journey, AC/DC, etc).

I'd be shocked if Wal-Mart was ever in the front of anyone's mind where new music is concerned, unless its an exclusive, like Eagles, Journey and AC/DC, etc.

Mr Peabody
05-26-2009, 03:09 PM
We have a couple WM's around here. It seems to vary as to what you find in the CD shelf. One barely covers the basics while another really surprised me as to what was there, bands such as Black Label Society and a few others not typically seen at a WM. I really don't think WM has any impact what so ever on Indie or any other small band. I'd be more concerned over the music industry monopolies that own the recording studio as well as radio stations throughout the U.S. as well as concert venues. If you don't kiss that butt you'll be playing in the park with an upside down hat.

I personally like the choice of an edited version when buying for my kids. I don't swear in front of them and I don't like for any one else to. I don't mind if Green Day don't want to sell an edited version I just wouldn't buy it if it wasn't appropriate. I didn't realize the point of contraversy was the sticker. But that makes sense, I bought my little girl the No Doubt CD from WM thinking it would be fine and was not to happy to hear about 50 ****s in that crap of a hit they had. Some time ago I bought a Rage Against the Machine CD from WM and it wasn't censored, so I wondered how some were and some were not. Good point was made about submitting to radio censorship. I personally wish they wouldn't, for those not wanting the offensive language there's no way of knowing until after the purchase has been made. Besides that it's rather pointless to bleep out some curse words but leave all the other colorful content in there. Do people think their kids won't know what a ho is or all the slang for sex and drugs. Unless parents ar hip, like me, ha, the kids probably understand the song better than they do.

This thread really brought out the whole gang didn't it? :)