New HT speaker selection/setup

[Fallen Kell]

Ok, I know this has probably been asked before or posted by many people, but to continue the time honored newbie tradition of asking probably the most basic question, here is mine.

I am currently in the market for a devent HT setup. I still havn't really decided on what receiver I am going to use, as I havn't had a chance to actually listen to any that I am interested in. Basically, I am trying to future proof my setup and as a result that means that my A/V receiver requires DVI input and output, which leaves me with a VERY limited number of A/V receivers out there right now (actually, I think there is really only one on the market at this time, the Sony STR-DA9000ES, but I hear that Onkyo has something possibly in the works to be announced soon). Well, in anycase, my question is figuring on about 200 watt per channel, what speakers should I get in a 7.1 configuration?

One of my friends has recommended looking at Axiom, B&W, maggies, or even certain Polk speakers. Now I know that I will probably keep the speakers for possibly 10-20 years even, as speaker technology really doesn't change dramatically, and as long as I get a farily decent setup, there is no reason to update the speakers if they are good to begin with.

I'm trying to keep the budget for the speakers under $4k, but if there is really a good reason to spend a little more I can swing it. Currently, they will be going into a kinda smallish room 14x12x7, but will eventually go into a larger room, so I am trying to purchase on the larger room specs even at the expense of overpowering the small room for a while (I see no sense on spending a chunk of change now on ok speakers for a small room and then spending more money on a whole different set of speakers for the larger room when I get around to changing the setup).

Going along with my friends recommendation as well as what I have read here and elsewhere on the internet, I am leaning toward a setup by Axiom. Axiom's website HT wizard recommended that I get the following:
2 M80ti mains
1 VP150 center
4 QS8 surounds
2 EP350 subs

Now, I will probably only get 1 sub for the small room for now, and get the second once I move into the larger room (well I might just buy them both now if I can swing a discount for buying so many speakers at once).

What I wanted to know is if there is anything blatently wrong with this setup, or do you guys have any recommended setups I should consider instead or possibly changes I should make around this setup. Everyone seems to really like the M80ti's and I am inclinded to believe that there is some truth to that (this is why my friend said to check them out). So, if you guys can recommend or comment on this I would really appriciate it, especially since I will be buying these mail order over the internet without being able to actually listen to them. Thanks.

[TinHere]

Sounds like it should be a very nice system. Axiom by most reports makes a quality product and you will probably do better with internet direct in terms of value once you can define the kind of sound you are looking for.

If you want a speaker with a little less treble energy and a furniture quality finish check out the Rocket's by Onix. If you like a speaker with more treble energy check out the Reference by Onix line. These can be found at AV123 which is also an internet direct company with a great reputation for quality products and customer support.

http://www.av123.com/index.php

Enjoy your choice.

[Fallen Kell]

Wow! You were right, those speakers truely do have a furniture quality finish. That makes my job even harder now. Since like I said before, I will probably be keeping theses a long time, so I would do better to get something that looks nice as well....

[TinHere]

Wow! You were right, those speakers truely do have a furniture quality finish. That makes my job even harder now. Since like I said before, I will probably be keeping theses a long time, so I would do better to get something that looks nice as well....

Most people say the pics don't do them justice. The real good news is they sound as good as look. They have a high WAF [wife appreciation factor]. :cool:

You can check http://www.audioenvy.com/ to see if there is anyone in your area who opens their home for auditions. They do this to share a good thing and not for any compensation. You can also post on the forum at AV123.com to find someone or ask any questions you might have. These speakers seldom disappoint, and not many get returned. They will be giving 100% credit on the RS 750's to people who want to upgrade to the soon to be released RS 1000's which feature an 8" powered woofer [not sub] and a 4" midrange like the one on the RSC200 [the "BigFoot" center channel], as an example of how they take care of their customers.

[Fallen Kell]

Ok, I am definetly sold. But I think I will wait until I can get the RS 1000's. I mean its not worth it to me to spend the money to ship the 750's back for the 1000's when I know that I want the 1000's. I'm trying to figure out the entire package I should go with though. I'm leaning towards something like the following now:

2 Rocket RS1000's front mains
2 RSS 300 dipole surounds
2 RS 550's rears
1 RSC 200 center
1 sub (not sure what brand...possibly HSU VTF 3, or the Rocket UFW-10)

This is going a lot over my 4k budget, but it seems worth it considering these by far look about 10x better then the Axioms. And from what people are saying, appears to have a better sound quality as well. Now if I can just find out when they will start shipping the RS 1000's :) (I should probably get the 550's now since they are on sale, and get the 1000's in a package with the rest of the speakers).

These are going to blow away the small room they are going into for a while :D

[topspeed]

You've already fallen once Kell, maybe this time you should look before your leap, eh?

Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with Onix, Axiom, or any other internet direct company.

You're "sold"??!! Kell, it's inconceivable to me that you are ready to drop $4-5 large on a system you've never heard! That's like marrying someone you've never met. The immense number of choices you have at this price point is mind boggling. Slow down brother. Why not grab a couple of your favorite discs, jump in the sled and go LISTEN to a few systems. Find out if you prefer bi-polar speakers to transmission line, planer/'stats to dynamic, bass reflex to acoustic suspension. Consider how efficient they are, what kind of impedence do they present, what's the warranty? Another facet you might what to consider is resale value. Why do some makes retain their value better than others? For Pete's sake do NOT go off of reviews entirely. If you want to use them to develop a short list, that's fine. However, the only opinion that matters is yours.

Good luck and buy what moves you.

[TinHere]

Cool beans. Budget smudget...I'll help ya spend your money. That will be a killer system. The #3 package [550/200/300] is on sale now for $1649 and is a very nice system. Adding RS1K's in front and moving the 550's to the rear for multi-channel music will put that system over the top. Most people would be more than satisfied with the #3 by itself. Give them a call and tell them you plan on also getting the RS1K when it is released and I think they will make the proper price adjustments for you when the time comes.

As for the sub, if you want to REALLY move air and go low in a larger room you will probably want the larger sub. FYI the HSU VTF-3 comes in a rosewood finish that Mark makes in his factory so it is a match for fit and finish. If you get the Ebony's the point is moot. The Rocket UFW-10 gets very high ratings for it's musicality but won't give you the rumble of the larger subs. It does rumble, just not as wall shaking as the bigger ones. A UFW-12 is in the works but isn't ready for release yet. Discuss your needs with them and they will steer you right. I was debating between an SVS 20-39 PC and the UFW-10 and ended up with the SVS after discussing it with them. They could have "sold" me the Rocket sub, but customer satisfaction is number one with them. I would also check out the SVS PBS2 [as long as I'm spending your money] that a number of Rocket owner's have had good things to say about. http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb2_plus.htm

Keep us posted with updates.

[Nich]

Ok, I am definetly sold. But I think I will wait until I can get the RS 1000's. I mean its not worth it to me to spend the money to ship the 750's back for the 1000's when I know that I want the 1000's. I'm trying to figure out the entire package I should go with though. I'm leaning towards something like the following now:

2 Rocket RS1000's front mains
2 RSS 300 dipole surounds
2 RS 550's rears
1 RSC 200 center
1 sub (not sure what brand...possibly HSU VTF 3, or the Rocket UFW-10)

This is going a lot over my 4k budget, but it seems worth it considering these by far look about 10x better then the Axioms. And from what people are saying, appears to have a better sound quality as well. Now if I can just find out when they will start shipping the RS 1000's :) (I should probably get the 550's now since they are on sale, and get the 1000's in a package with the rest of the speakers).

These are going to blow away the small room they are going into for a while :D


It seems that you are rushing into buying. I was in the same boat as you few weeks back before buying the Axiom M60ti and I auditioned alot of speakers like the Paradigm Studio 60, B&W Nautilus 804, Rockets RS750, Energy Veritas 2.2 & 2.3....Anyways the Energy Veritas was the best to my ears. It was also out of my price range. The guys here on audioreview told me to take my time and audition more speakers. So I decided to placed an order online for the Axiom M60ti (30 Day Money back guarantee). I just got it few days ago and I was amazed with the sound of these speakers. The fit and finish is smooth and flawless. Alot of my family thinks its real wood veneer at a distance. I know I won't be returning these. The M60ti is probably close to the Energy Veritas I auditioned with alot less money.

If you think its worth the money to spend $700.00 Extra on wood veneer; go for it. But listen to them first. Your ears will decide whats best.

[Fallen Kell]

Well, I listened to the Axioms (well an M60ti paired with M22ti and a HSU VTF 3). Now grant it, these are slightly smaller then what I was looking for, but they just didn't seem to have the right sound. Now it could have been the electronics because it was using an old Yamaha receiver, which was probably a a little weak on the power side (something like 50w per channel). The sub was his latest edition, and I have to admit, it really did push a LOT of sound. It will be hard to beat in a home theater setup. It was "ok" in music, but easily blew away the Bose sub I have now with music and about 10x better then the Bose is with movies (it wasn't designed for those effects, so I'm not blaming the Bose, it just simply wasn't designed to do movie effect, but for instrument reproduction). This has pretty much made up my mind on the sub.

Planars are nice, but for the price, I can't get planars that have as good of a sound level that I want. I know the planar debate has been going on for a while. I've used some smaller planar speakers before (mostly in small computer speakers and mid-fi stereo), but to me, they just don't push enough sound. Part of that is because they were small (6x10 inches I believe were the largest I have personally used), so I know that theses aren't the best comparison, but they would need to be pretty big planars to give me the right sound. I've heard some large ones at a relative's house (they were wall mounted 6 foot by something), they sounded pretty good, but also cost like 4k a pair which puts them completely out of my range for use.

You are probably right that I am jumping the gun a bit, but at absolute worst, I am out a couple bills to ship them back for a full refund if I don't like them. Seriously, I know Onix is a fairly new company, but I think we would see a lot more bad press/bad reviews on the internet if they were not a decent speaker. So far I have only seen one or two threads with people complaining about the Rockets, but even in those threads, the problems that people had were corrected by either letting the speakers break in, raising the speakers higher to move the sound stage up, or replacing the defective receiver which was causing the Rockets to have a "muffled" sound. This truely leads me to believe that, in general, just about everyone who has them likes them a lot (which makes sense if you think about it, you wouldn't buy somthing you didn't like). But more so, because many of these people bought them just to try them out and wound up keeping them because they liked them so much makes me feal that I can trust the quality of them. And seriously, bang for the buck, I don't think I am going to be able to come close to these with B&W or Magneplanar. Now I will say that Magneplanar would do a better job in reproducing sound, no questions about that (no crossover issues possible), they are just too expensive to drive for the sound that I would like (the speakers alone would break my budget, then the need to buy amps for the extra power needed).

Like I said, worst case I am out a few bills in shipping costs back to Onix. But like I said in my first post, if you can show me anything really bad with what I am looking at, let me know. I "upgraded" to the Onix from the Axioms because the Onix truely look about 10x better then the Axioms and from all reports that I can see sound as well if not better. I'll try and audition a SVS sub, the HSU sounded really nice in a HT environment, and may not even be required in a purely musical environment with the RS 1000's because of their new 8" powered woofer. I mean the proof will be in the pudding, and since the RS1000's are not out, I'll have to wait and see. I also havn't completely settled on the receiver yet, but the Sony STR-DA9000ES is the front runner because of its future looking DVI inputs/output and 32bit DAC's. Once I settle on that, I will make my final decision on the speakers, but right now it would be the Rockets.

[Nich]

Well, I listened to the Axioms (well an M60ti paired with M22ti and a HSU VTF 3). Now grant it, these are slightly smaller then what I was looking for, but they just didn't seem to have the right sound. Now it could have been the electronics because it was using an old Yamaha receiver, which was probably a a little weak on the power side (something like 50w per channel). The sub was his latest edition, and I have to admit, it really did push a LOT of sound. It will be hard to beat in a home theater setup. It was "ok" in music, but easily blew away the Bose sub I have now with music and about 10x better then the Bose is with movies (it wasn't designed for those effects, so I'm not blaming the Bose, it just simply wasn't designed to do movie effect, but for instrument reproduction). This has pretty much made up my mind on the sub.

Planars are nice, but for the price, I can't get planars that have as good of a sound level that I want. I know the planar debate has been going on for a while. I've used some smaller planar speakers before (mostly in small computer speakers and mid-fi stereo), but to me, they just don't push enough sound. Part of that is because they were small (6x10 inches I believe were the largest I have personally used), so I know that theses aren't the best comparison, but they would need to be pretty big planars to give me the right sound. I've heard some large ones at a relative's house (they were wall mounted 6 foot by something), they sounded pretty good, but also cost like 4k a pair which puts them completely out of my range for use.

You are probably right that I am jumping the gun a bit, but at absolute worst, I am out a couple bills to ship them back for a full refund if I don't like them. Seriously, I know Onix is a fairly new company, but I think we would see a lot more bad press/bad reviews on the internet if they were not a decent speaker. So far I have only seen one or two threads with people complaining about the Rockets, but even in those threads, the problems that people had were corrected by either letting the speakers break in, raising the speakers higher to move the sound stage up, or replacing the defective receiver which was causing the Rockets to have a "muffled" sound. This truely leads me to believe that, in general, just about everyone who has them likes them a lot (which makes sense if you think about it, you wouldn't buy somthing you didn't like). But more so, because many of these people bought them just to try them out and wound up keeping them because they liked them so much makes me feal that I can trust the quality of them. And seriously, bang for the buck, I don't think I am going to be able to come close to these with B&W or Magneplanar. Now I will say that Magneplanar would do a better job in reproducing sound, no questions about that (no crossover issues possible), they are just too expensive to drive for the sound that I would like (the speakers alone would break my budget, then the need to buy amps for the extra power needed).

Like I said, worst case I am out a few bills in shipping costs back to Onix. But like I said in my first post, if you can show me anything really bad with what I am looking at, let me know. I "upgraded" to the Onix from the Axioms because the Onix truely look about 10x better then the Axioms and from all reports that I can see sound as well if not better. I'll try and audition a SVS sub, the HSU sounded really nice in a HT environment, and may not even be required in a purely musical environment with the RS 1000's because of their new 8" powered woofer. I mean the proof will be in the pudding, and since the RS1000's are not out, I'll have to wait and see. I also havn't completely settled on the receiver yet, but the Sony STR-DA9000ES is the front runner because of its future looking DVI inputs/output and 32bit DAC's. Once I settle on that, I will make my final decision on the speakers, but right now it would be the Rockets.

No doubt Rockets Make excellent speakers for the money. I auditioned one here in town and I didn't mind it at all.(RS750). Not the kind of sound I'm looking for though. Too laid back for my ears. I found the soundstaging for the Axiom cleaner...thats about it. The finish is better on the Rockets thou. Well keep us posted with the Rockets

Good Luck.

[TinHere]

No doubt Rockets Make excellent speakers for the money. I auditioned one here in town and I didn't mind it at all.(RS750). Not the kind of sound I'm looking for though. Too laid back for my ears. I found the soundstaging for the Axiom cleaner...thats about it. The finish is better on the Rockets thou. Well keep us posted with the Rockets

Good Luck.

Just curious, and I know Rockets aren't for everyone, but can you tell me if the 750's you listened to were "classics' or the newer "Signatures" which have a little [1.5-2 db] more treble energy? The earlier comments that the classics were "too laid back" was an issue that was addressed by AV123 when they put the Signatures into producton. They still may be to tame for your preferences, but the Sigs did resolve that issue to a number of people. BTW I have Classics and felt no need to get the changes even though it was offered to owners for only $200 which included shipping the speakers to AV123 so they could make the changes.

[Nich]

Just curious, and I know Rockets aren't for everyone, but can you tell me if the 750's you listened to were "classics' or the newer "Signatures" which have a little [1.5-2 db] more treble energy? The earlier comments that the classics were "too laid back" was an issue that was addressed by AV123 when they put the Signatures into producton. They still may be to tame for your preferences, but the Sigs did resolve that issue to a number of people. BTW I have Classics and felt no need to get the changes even though it was offered to owners for only $200 which included shipping the speakers to AV123 so they could make the changes.

This guy just bought it last November so I'm assuming its the Signatures.

Cheers.

[Bryan]

What size will the larger room be? It is possible to have too much speaker for a given room. Additionally, don't fixate on 200 WPC. That is only 3dbs louder than 100WPC.

Personally I would go with a lesser speaker budget and gear the savings towards a more powerful sub.

[Fallen Kell]

Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. The larger room will be ~20x18x10 with a fairly large opening on one wall into another room (8 foot opening). I am trying to find a demo of some SVS subs (specificall the 20-39PC-Plus). I think I have found the A/V receiver that I want (the new Onkyo 1000 that comes out in 2 weeks), which has pretty much everything I was looking for and should be ~$500-800 less then the Sony. I have liked the Onkyo's in the past, and since they have one which has the features that I wanted, I will probably stick with them.

In the large room I will probably need at 2 quality subs to create enough sound because of the size and the large opening.

[iviustang50h]

Now that it has been a year later I must ask, what did you end up buying Kell and how do you like them?

[thepogue]

I didn't even read the date...and blam...a year went by!!..lol

well it was sure nice seeing Tin-Man around again!...lmao

Peace, Pogue