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3-LockBox
04-29-2009, 11:21 AM
I ran across a review of Decemberists: The Crane Wife over at Dutch Progressive Rock Page and picked up on a few blurbs that I found interesting. Its a rather long review that reads more like an essay, with a preface that includes a justification of why an 'indie' act is being reviewed for that website. Here's something that I think is all too true of many modern prog acts, though only recently (there are exceptions IMO).



My attraction to “Indie Rock” (and here I am referencing such artists as The Flaming Lips, Muse, The Shins, Yo La Tengo, Dredg, Sufjan Stevens, PJ Harvey, Modest Mouse, The Arcade Fire, Built Too Spill, etc.) is three-fold:

These artists all remember the importance of song as a vehicle for expressing emotion and philosophical observation. This is of course one hallmark of The Beatles’ legacy, which really has never wavered (excepting the years of punk rock’s dominance) and definitely informed the earliest albums by such bands as Yes, Genesis, and King Crimson.
These artists have not in any sense forgotten the power and allure of a compelling melody; again, another hallmark of The Beatles’ (and actually, not forgetting Mssrs. Townshend and Davies, the British Invasion’s) influence upon popular music. And
These artists all pay hard attention to arrangement and sonic palette, which the DPRP audience will correctly understand as one of the prominent tenets of the more excellent albums in the Progressive Rock annals. It is my opinion that contemporary prog tends to either abandon song and melody altogether or employs both in such a way as to be cloying, overly saccharine, tepid, redundant, or simply weak. “Old school” prog had its “Living in the Past,” “Yours Is No Disgrace,” “Epitaph,” and “Tuesday Afternoon,” all of which incorporate memorable melodies into strongly rendered songs, while also utilizing some suitably complex and inviting audio textures. Modern Indie Rock still performs that feat; I find that modern Progressive Rock does not.

Ultimately, what I love about so-called “Indie Rock” is how, in the same way that the alternative rock of the nineties borrowed heavily from punk, metal, and thrash, it (Indie) borrows very heavily from psychedelic and progressive rock. The Shins at times sound scarily like late 60s Beach Boys (I'd say more like The Zombies - 3LB); The Flaming Lips don’t hesitate to create ambience and effect in the very best vein of Pink Floyd or Tangerine Dream; Yo La Tengo exercises a flair for genre shifts rivalling The Beatles on, say, The White Album. And The Decemberists, with literary, keen lyrics, unorthodox instrumentation, strong composition, and ensemble prowess, harken back to the days of folk prog, albeit with enough of a contemporary twist to be fresh and viable.




I don't know that I disagree a whole lot with any of that...

would you?

I would like to add there are some modern acts that seem to have found what they do well and have the good sense to exploit their strengths, such the band Ritual, who came out in '99 with an old schoolish prog album which emphasized their Swedish heritage, delving in folk and traditional instrumentation and arrangments. Then they went and made two neo-prog albums that sounded like any other Swedish neo band (Flower Kings were the template here), then returned to form on '07s The Hemulac Voluntary Band, an album that should interest anyone who finds they like The Decemberists flair for period themes and folk music. Polish groups like Satellite and Riverside, who maintain a rock edge with prog trimmings ala Porcupine Tree. Maybe a few others I'm forgetting. Some bands like Beardfish seem to be able to make a great statement by pushing the boundaries of 'Prog', incorporating other genre influences, only to revert back to the buggaboos of notes-for-notes sake neo-prog. I've bought less and less prog over the last two or three years, finding I don't need more than one or two albums from the same band. By the same token, I can't say I'm a completists whereas 'indie' bands go either.

Let's face it, the guy has a point concerning his 3, well, points, but in his article he suggests that 'indie' is a fad like grunge was, and I do disagree with that. I think the 'indie' bands of this decade will endure longer than the music of the '80s and much of the '70s. I still find old 'indie' albums (from bands like Pavement) as enjoyable and relevant sounding today as they were 8 or 9 years ago, where a new wave album of 1983 sounded so dated in '88. Yeah, indie bands are lucky to last more than five years nowdays, but thats because of lack of industry support. Neo prog on the other hand is a retro thing, you buy it because it sounds like something else. Bands like IQ, Pendragon, The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard remain linked to the past, where a band like Porcupine Tree and Marillion started out retro, but evolved.

If you looked at my spending habits over the last three years, it looks like 'indie' is winning over prog, but perhaps the transition from prog to indie isn't that big of a leap after all.

ForeverAutumn
04-29-2009, 12:06 PM
I agree with his comparison of some of current indie bands and prog. There is no question that bands like The Decemberists, Muse and The Flaming Lips have some progressive influence. This has been discussed here and at PE. Heck, there's an ongoing thread at PE about Indie Bands with Prog influences. I'm not sure that I would put The Shins in that category, unless you consider that The Shins don't follow the traditional rules of popular songwriting, and consider that progressive.

I don't agree with what he says about modern progressive rock bands lacking melody. It depends on the band I suppose. But bands like Riverside, Threshold, even Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree at times, have some very melodic tunes. I'd like to know specifically who he's referring to in his generalization of "modern Progressive Rock".

3-LockBox
04-29-2009, 12:43 PM
I don't agree with what he says about modern progressive rock bands lacking melody. It depends on the band I suppose. But bands like Riverside, Threshold, even Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree at times, have some very melodic tunes. I'd like to know specifically who he's referring to in his generalization of "modern Progressive Rock".

I think I know what he means by saccharine and cloying - maybe he means lyrically speaking. But you have to admit that modern prog is on the wane. The example I gave of Beardfish is one, but I'd point to some others, like Yoke Shire, who ran out of ideas after one album, and The Flower Kings (the Rolling Stones of the neo-prog world), who continue to put out the same album over and over, but put on a pedestal as the shining example of modern prog. Bands like IQ, Pallas, Pendragon, Tangent and a host of others sound so like one another; put a lot of neo-prog on an MP3 player and I couldn't say who was who without looking most of the time. Of course it doesn't help when these bands change personel so many times that many prog musicians have nearly been in every band. Look at John Wetton and John Mitchell. This provides for a very homogenous sound at times.

I still managed to buy four or five proggish albums last year. Some modern prog bands, like you stated, have taken on characteristics of the 'indie' sound, Porcupine Tree being prolly the first. I do think the author of that review has tried too hard to make modern prog sound like its artistically bankrupt - it isn't, but it is stagnant.

ForeverAutumn
04-29-2009, 12:54 PM
I could make the same statements about some of the Indie bands that I listen to. While I'm not as proficient in the Indie world as most people on this site, I look at bands like Death Cab for Cutie as an example. They were the Indie Darlings a few years ago and then put out a couple of albums that sounded very close to the same only to fall out of grace with their last album which just downright sucked (IMO). Redundant? Out of fresh ideas? You betcha.

How is this different than any other musical genre? Does every Rolling Stones album have a unique sound? Does every Rush album have a unique sound? Every band who stays around long enough will start to sound redundant at some point. So is the solution to redundancy the "Seinfeld solution"? Go out while you're still on top?

3-LockBox
04-29-2009, 01:15 PM
Does every Rolling Stones album have a unique sound?
yep, they haven't made a decent album since 1981 - a completely dispensible catalog since

Does every Rush album have a unique sound?
yep; though they still manage to have at least one decent song per album, they still basically put out the same album over and over. I think Rush's saving grace is the literacy of the lyrics, as apposed to the daft lyrics of other dinosaur acts like The Rolling Stones. I don't think I could fill a CD-R with all the Rush tunes of the last two decades I'd want to hear on a rotational basis, even though I'd try, because they're a band I root for.

So is the solution to redundancy the "Seinfeld solution"? Go out while you're still on top?
wouldn't hurt - didn't hurt Led Zeppelin

Having a distinct sound isn't the problem. Like Rick Wright is quoted as saying, "technique is secondary to ideas".

3-LockBox
04-29-2009, 10:03 PM
I could make the same statements about some of the Indie bands that I listen to. While I'm not as proficient in the Indie world as most people on this site, I look at bands like Death Cab for Cutie as an example. They were the Indie Darlings a few years ago and then put out a couple of albums that sounded very close to the same only to fall out of grace with their last album which just downright sucked (IMO). Redundant? Out of fresh ideas? You betcha.

Yeah, DCFC, The Killers, MMM, and Keane all made curious albums last year or so (make that two for The Killers). But rare is the indie band that doesn't lose its audience with success. I did like last years DCFC album, but it definitely was a departure stylistically, as was Keane album, which was one of the biggest bombs of 2008 for me. Certainly, indie bands will be hard pressed to have the longevity of many prog bands, but prog audiences love the genre for what it represents as much as it does for content. I feel that way about the new Decemberists album, I'm not in love with it, but I do like what it represents, over-reaching as it may be.